Thousands risk driving ban

[Ralliart]

Hey guys, read this on news about drivers losing their licenses, here is the whole artical
================================================== ========
Souce: The Age

Thousands risk driving ban



Mark Russell
June 24, 2007


MORE than 45,000 Victorian drivers are on the brink of losing their licences — and the proliferation of speed cameras is being blamed.

The Sunday Age can reveal that thousands of drivers are only just hanging on to their licences, sparking fears that jobs and family mobility are in jeopardy.

VicRoads figures show that as of May 31, there were 29,016 drivers with 10 demerit points and another 16,459 with 11 demerit points.

This is 9000 more drivers at risk of losing their licences than at the same time in 2005. VicRoads does not have figures for last year.

State Opposition Leader Ted Baillieu said he was staggered at the high number of drivers with so many demerit points.

"I don't think there's any doubt that this has been caused by the proliferation of speed cameras in Victoria," Mr Baillieu said.

"And there's no doubt Victorians believe that there is revenue-raising going on.

"It looks like we're on the cusp of an awful lot of people losing their licences, which will be of great concern to a lot of families and businesses."

But the Government and the Transport Accident Commission strongly defended the use of speed cameras in tackling the road toll, which stands at 151 compared with 153 at this time last year.

Police Minister Bob Cameron's spokesman, Alex Twomey, denied that speed cameras were being used as revenue-raisers.

VicRoads did not have a breakdown of the traffic offences committed by the 45,000 drivers at risk of losing their licences, but a spokeswoman said speeding was believed to have played a significant role.

The risk of drivers crashing doubled if they were speeding 5 km/h over the 60 km/h limit, the Transport Accident Commission said.

There are 3.6 million registered drivers in Victoria, and more than 150 speed cameras and 83 red light cameras operating to catch them out if they break the law. Drivers who lose 12 or more demerit points in any three-year period (and P-platers who get five points in a 12-month period) face having their licences suspended for three months, or they can agree to enter into a 12-month "bond".

If they incur any further point losses within this 12-month period, they lose their licence for six months.

The State Government hopes to reap $843 million in fines and regulatory fees, including speed camera revenue, in 2007-08, a 6.2 per cent increase on 2006-07's revised estimate of $793.3 million.

The increase has been attributed to several factors, including the re-establishment of the Western Ring Road camera network, the start of the Hume Freeway point-to-point speed camera system, completion of the roll-out of the red-light speed camera network and the annual indexation of fees and charges.

Fixed cameras are being used in eight locations along the Western Ring Road, with four operating in the Princes Freeway-bound direction, and four on the Hume-bound side.

Justice Department documents leaked to The Sunday Age show the number of Traffic Camera Office infringements issued in Victoria in 2005-06 was 1,079,169, worth $200 million. The number of TCO infringements from July 1 last year to February 28 this year was 806,760, worth $148 million.

The Sunday Age has revealed in a number of recent reports that many motorists are refusing to pay speeding, parking and tollway fines, with thousands sending them back marked "return to sender".

The amount owed by fine defaulters has leapt from $40 million 20 years ago to more than $1 billion this year. By the end of February this year, 346,373 speed camera fines, 86,757 on-the-spot police fines and 132,108 speeding tickets issued to motorists using the Burnley and Domain tunnels were unpaid — worth a total of more than $100 million. Revenue collected from fines forms part of the state budget.
================================================== =======

[Casper]

The State Government hopes to reap $843 million in fines and regulatory fees, including speed camera revenue, in 2007-08, a 6.2 per cent increase on 2006-07's revised estimate of $793.3 million.

So if it isnt revenue raising why are they INCREASING the expected return from it in the budget? Isnt increasing it assuming MORE speeding fines? If this is the case then is the Government not only expecting that their message of "speed kills" is not getting through but that they fully expect (and need) people to continue to be fined to boost up the economy?

[Falcon Coupe]

Originally Posted by Casper

So if it isnt revenue raising why are they INCREASING the expected return from it in the budget? Isnt increasing it assuming MORE speeding fines? If this is the case then is the Government not only expecting that their message of "speed kills" is not getting through but that they fully expect (and need) people to continue to be fined to boost up the economy?

At the risk of turning political, i can't believe they were voted back in.

[nugget378]

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

At the risk of turning political, i can't believe they were voted back in.

Wouldnt make a difference who you voted in,as if the 2 party system is really a choice anyway...

I say rip the things out,if you all did it they couldnt very well arrest you all....

[BTTB]

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

At the risk of turning political, i can't believe they were voted back in.

With that much money coming in why would the OTHER side bother removing them....

needless to say...
stay below the speed limit and you won't get fined

I haven't had a fine in over 5years now

[Falcon Coupe]

Originally Posted by EFGTHO

With that much money coming in why would the OTHER side bother removing them....

needless to say...
stay below the speed limit and you won't get fined

I haven't had a fine in over 5years now

IIRC the other side were going to roll back to 10% allowance.

I also have not had a fine in 5 years.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

IIRC the other side were going to roll back to 10% allowance.

I also have not had a fine in 5 years.

Im the same, had a heap when I first got my P's and then nothing in a few years.

And yes, Lib's said they would bring it back.

[desGT]

VicRoads did not have a breakdown of the traffic offences committed by the 45,000 drivers at risk of losing their licences, but a spokeswoman said speeding was believed to have played a significant role

Ah, so no proof, but it MUST be speeding. Logical. Lets continue the propaganda about speed kills no matter what.

And for those who think that we should stop complaining and just do the speed limit, what do you think will happen when the money stops coming in? Suggest that the speed limits will just be dropped even more so that the cash flow keeps coming in.

And more ranting… If anyone thinks that the death rate of 151 compared to 153 is in anyway significant or even meaningful… (I’d better stop!)

[MITCHAY]

But the Government and the Transport Accident Commission strongly defended the use of speed cameras in tackling the road toll, which stands at 151 compared with 153 at this time last year.

Yeah big difference there aint it? :

[Auslandau]

Getting very close to 1 Billion dollar mark! :dr_Evil: That is an incredible amount of money from traffic offences. What did they do before speed cameras for money to run the state? The taxes must have been soooo much higher back then!

As Casper said. To increase the expected budget every year is admission by the g'ment that this is a pain in the bum tax and is not working its intended purpose.

It will force normal law abiding people to drive unlicensed so they can keep there jobs and lifstyle more so than forcing them not to drive. :



| [/url] |

[XRchic]

While we were in Vic, I couldnt believe how many people were speeding at quite reasonable speeds over the limit though. I wasnt game to do more than 3kmh or so over the limit according to my speedo, but HEAPS of people passed us and were going quite a bit faster... they speed more than we do in SA where we have a much larger tolerance in the speed cameras!

I am very nervous driving in Vic. I actually do watch my speedo more than the road, and while on the Western Ring Road in moderate traffic, that is NOT a good thing, especially with having to change lanes, being relatively unfamiliar with the road and turnoffs, and keeping an eye on what other drivers are doing!

Love the road system in Vic, but hate driving on it because of the paranoia and worry of coming home with a present from Mr Bracks the big fat tool!

[blk_frmnt]

I don't have a link (maybe someone will find it), but in the paper a few months ago I read that here in Canberra (pop. 330,000), in 2005, thirty-something thousand fines were issued from the cameras. That's 10% of the population! Not just the driving population, EVERYONE. And what has this accomplished in the name of safety? Nothing. Bottom line, check the death tolls over the years, and it's pretty obvious cameras aren't saving any lives.

[MITCHAY]

Originally Posted by blk_frmnt

I don't have a link (maybe someone will find it), but in the paper a few months ago I read that here in Canberra (pop. 330,000), in 2005, thirty-something thousand fines were issued from the cameras. That's 10% of the population! Not just the driving population, EVERYONE. And what has this accomplished in the name of safety? Nothing. Bottom line, check the death tolls over the years, and it's pretty obvious cameras aren't saving any lives.

Everyone speeds like no tommorow here too and we all get along fine. But they are still bringing in more cameras. Quite amusing watching the action from my work where a red light camera is.

They definitely cause more accidents or increase the chances of one than what they 'might' prevent.

[Keepleft]

Nothing new in any of this.

The AG dept 'predicts' fine revenue from road users, ways and means are then found.

[b2tf]

Originally Posted by XRchic

While we were in Vic, I couldnt believe how many people were speeding at quite reasonable speeds over the limit though. I wasnt game to do more than 3kmh or so over the limit according to my speedo, but HEAPS of people passed us and were going quite a bit faster... they speed more than we do in SA where we have a much larger tolerance in the speed cameras!

I am very nervous driving in Vic. I actually do watch my speedo more than the road, and while on the Western Ring Road in moderate traffic, that is NOT a good thing, especially with having to change lanes, being relatively unfamiliar with the road and turnoffs, and keeping an eye on what other drivers are doing!

Love the road system in Vic, but hate driving on it because of the paranoia and worry of coming home with a present from Mr Bracks the big fat tool!

Agreed, on the last few trips to Melbourne Im sitting there doing spot on 100 and every bugger is zooming past me! Dont know how they can do it!

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by b2tf

Agreed, on the last few trips to Melbourne Im sitting there doing spot on 100 and every bugger is zooming past me! Dont know how they can do it!

Simple, we know EXACTLY where every camera is in Vic...LOL

The one on the Hume suck though. :togo:

edit: And then your just in a lottery with HWP

[MeLLy]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Simple, we know EXACTLY where every camera is in Vic...LOL

The one on the Hume suck though. :togo:

edit: And then your just in a lottery with HWP

Thats how most of us think in SA...we all know where the fixed cameras are, well i do....& the car cams are easy as to spot!

[Bucknaked]

Sux to be a Victorian.

[MR_LON]

the cameras on the ring road cause more problems than they are ment to fix, idiot drivers think that they have to slow to 10ks below the limit when going through the camera zones causing traffic to bank up

[private9]

Sorry, but what's the big deal about all these people losing their licenses? If you're speeding, majority of the time you know it and you're breaking the law.

That's not to say I've never copped a speeding fine or lost my license, but at the end of the day if you do the wrong thing and get caught, you just have to cop it on the chin.

[Casper]

Originally Posted by private9

Sorry, but what's the big deal about all these people losing their licenses? If you're speeding, majority of the time you know it and you're breaking the law.

That's not to say I've never copped a speeding fine or lost my license, but at the end of the day if you do the wrong thing and get caught, you just have to cop it on the chin.

Nothing to do with losing licenses, everything to do with the government becoming $800+million reliant on people speeding etc to prop up the economy. Thats a lot off money they are counting on that is coming from something they "claim" to want to get rid of.

Simple fact is that if every single person suddenly drove 10kms under the limit at all time and never did illegal turns, talked on their mobile while driving and whatever else the government claims they want to get rid of.... the Victorian economy would be in freefall in 12 months.

Its a simple case of hypocrisy.. they claim they want to save lives yet they have become addicted to revenue from something they can never afford to solve.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by private9

Sorry, but what's the big deal about all these people losing their licenses? If you're speeding, majority of the time you know it and you're breaking the law.

That's not to say I've never copped a speeding fine or lost my license, but at the end of the day if you do the wrong thing and get caught, you just have to cop it on the chin.

Alot of the times its the people that can least afford it who get hammered. Thats not to say they should be immune, but when a law is obviously ridiculously harsh then something needs to be done.

I wonder if Mr Bracks has ever heard of the word tolerance, and more specifically mechanical tolerances. You would have a +/- with the camera's, and then we all know our speedo's have an error margin aswell.

Glad Im moving for Tassie for a few years, hopefully by the time Im back Bracks will be gone.

[dishpig]

This stuff can ruin lives for example I got caught speeding last year and a defect 6 months after which lost me my lisence. Then i went on good behaviour and got caught 6 months after the 7k's over and lost my lisence for 6 months and my 2nd year apprentiship along with it. I've heard of plenty of people that have gone through the same thing or just on the brink of slipping. You try going 1 year with the stress that one slip up will cost you your job it made my life hell.

[private9]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Alot of the times its the people that can least afford it who get hammered. Thats not to say they should be immune, but when a law is obviously ridiculously harsh then something needs to be done.

I wonder if Mr Bracks has ever heard of the word tolerance, and more specifically mechanical tolerances. You would have a +/- with the camera's, and then we all know our speedo's have an error margin aswell.

Glad Im moving for Tassie for a few years, hopefully by the time Im back Bracks will be gone.

100% agree with everyone here that it's simply revenue raising and it's quite hypocritical to claim to want to stamp out all of these fines, but at the same to forecast an increase in the coming year.

I also agree that the tolerance levels are ridiculous in VIC, I think you can now get fined for being 2kms over the limit, while manufacturers only have to have to have the speedos in new cars within a 10% tolerance.

Having said all that, I still think that if you're doing say 10kms over the limit, you know you're doing it. And if you happen to get caught 4 times doing it and lose your license for it, then it's your own fault and you should just cop it sweet.

1 or 2 silly fines you can say are accidental, but if you end up copping a number of speeding fines and lose your license for it, I just don't think you can say it's not your own fault.

[Green X]

Originally Posted by private9

Sorry, but what's the big deal about all these people losing their licenses? If you're speeding, majority of the time you know it and you're breaking the law.

That's not to say I've never copped a speeding fine or lost my license, but at the end of the day if you do the wrong thing and get caught, you just have to cop it on the chin.

The deal is, that at 2 am on the Freeway when there is **** all traffic the road is smooth, wide and well lit why should you be limited to 100km/h, in these sorts of situations a driver can look at the situation and say well perhaps 110-120km/h is a more appropriate speed for the conditions at this time, Or i am driving in northern WA with ****** all traffic and a hole pile of jack **** for 1500km how can a 110 be deemed a appropriate travelling speed, try 140km/h is more reasonable for those roads.

[Van D]

Originally Posted by private9

Sorry, but what's the big deal about all these people losing their licenses? If you're speeding, majority of the time you know it and you're breaking the law.

That's not to say I've never copped a speeding fine or lost my license, but at the end of the day if you do the wrong thing and get caught, you just have to cop it on the chin.

For me it's more the camera placement (ie. at the bottom of hills, or places where braking actually causes more dramas) that irks me.

And also, the more speed cameras are showing up, the more you see drivers slam on the brakes in the middle of the road to slow down before they go past it. I've actually seen someone get smacked in the rear pretty hard too because of that reason.

[Green X]

"The risk of drivers crashing doubled if they were speeding 5 km/h over the 60 km/h limit, the Transport Accident Commission said."
^^ That is one of my favourite lines of all time, It leaves out one very important number that is what is the risk of crashing to begin with.


WA coppers are about to start placing waning signs in front of Speed cameras.

It's not a bad idea, as it's a reminder for you to check your speed, but i think it's more of a strategy to make it look like they are not revenue raising, then then will slowly phase it out without telling us.

The thing that chits me is that the media are the biggest beaters on this issue, The Sunday times is one of the biggest offenders in WA, with there little speeding is the root of all the problems storeys they have.

[colossus]

Originally Posted by private

Sorry, but what's the big deal about all these people losing their licenses? If you're speeding, majority of the time you know it and you're breaking the law.

That's not to say I've never copped a speeding fine or lost my license, but at the end of the day if you do the wrong thing and get caught, you just have to cop it on the chin.

^^and with that attitude nothing will change...

[Casper]

http://www.aufalcon.com/cgi-bin/inde...f=articles/tac

[Falcon_Phill]

If its to save lives, and help people to learn not to speed, then why not spend the 800 million on driving courses for new drivers, and maybe some charity or something rather then whatever they waste it on. Like someone said, it would suck to be a Victorian.