GM Loses Record $4.5 Billion; Announces 12 Plant Closings

[ebxr8240]

Sheesh $39B Loss.....
the world's largest automaker, reported a record $39 billion quarterly loss after three money-losing years forced the company to write down the value of future tax benefits.

The loss, excluding the tax writedown, was $2.80 a share, more than 12 times analysts' estimates. Mortgage-related losses at GM's partly owned finance unit overwhelmed auto sales that were the highest ever. GM shares fell the most in 13 months, giving the Detroit-based automaker a market value of $19.2 billion, about half the size of the third-quarter loss.




http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...bao&refer=home

[Polyal]

Hmm I think Ford and GM have good product strategies, but they wont be in for another 5-10 years. So in the meantime its going to be grim.

$39B...god damn.

[Paxton]

Shite.

I am a bit worried that Ford are in the same boat - that they will make a record loss.

GM are in deep with the 'sub-prime' mortgage problem in the US.

[The Monty]

I can see us all driving round in Hyundais, Camrys, and Jiangling Landwinds in the not to distant future.

[Kryton]

Originally Posted by The Monty

I can see us all driving round in Hyundais, Camrys, and Jiangling Landwinds in the not to distant future.

if ever it looked like that, now is the time.
at worse im seeing not too many exciting cars on offer in the very near future.

[Ghiadude]

Originally Posted by davway

if ever it looked like that, now is the time.
at worse im seeing not too many exciting cars on offer in the very near future.

Sadly i can see it coming too. How bad could it be to NEVER go sideways EVER AGAIN though right???

[Conrad]

Originally Posted by tx3dude

Sadly i can see it coming too. How bad could it be to NEVER go sideways EVER AGAIN though right???

What are you talking about? Drifting is done in mostly japanese cars and is a japanese born race style.

If you want to go sideways buy an S15

[exrtnz]

Originally Posted by Conrad

What are you talking about? Drifting is done in mostly japanese cars and is a japanese born race style.

If you want to go sideways buy an S15

Can be done in a xr6t just not on public roads.

[bcr2734]

Originally Posted by Conrad

What are you talking about? Drifting is done in mostly japanese cars and is a japanese born race style.

If you want to go sideways buy an S15

get a life. get a stroked V8. that is a guter to guter smoke show you cannot do in a jap crap car.

amen

[marcosambrose]

Originally Posted by davway

at worse im seeing not too many exciting cars on offer in the very near future.

Errrm... When in the last 20 years have Ford and GM brought exciting cars anyway? (Bar the new GT40)

Look to Europe, the hybrid supercars they are building will mean 12 second quarters on an ounce of canine semen.

[ECOJET]

jeebus.
Would be nice to narrow it down to the divisions that are making losses and not.. e.g. is holden making a loss, is chev? pontiac.. all of them? some?
Who else does GM own? its like ford owning so many company's internationally (eg mazda jag e.t.c) gets a bit hard to control it all.
Doesnt help when they take too long to listen to the customer.. we have no diesel cars here and big car sales are declining, and mid sized cars have an average offering. THANK YOU ford finally for the focus and holden somewhat for the epica.

[Kryton]

Originally Posted by marcosambrose

Errrm... When in the last 20 years have Ford and GM brought exciting cars anyway?

when was the last time you cleaned the sleep out of your eyes?
tell me any time in any history where you could buy aussie built car with 300kw engines and 6ers that are pulling 270kw?
tell me anytime that an aussie car has ever been so good in all of aussie history.
dont even dare say the H.O either unless your talking about unrefined and uncomfortable.

no, we dont compete to the rest of the world, yet long gone are the days of driving 3.3l Kingswoods.....now theres an exciting car.:togo:
speaking of bland and boring......look to the future coz thats all your going to get.

[bcr2734]

Originally Posted by davway

when was the last time you cleaned the sleep out of your eyes?
tell me any time in any history where you could buy aussie built car with 300kw engines and 6ers that are pulling 270kw?
tell me anytime that an aussie car has ever been so good in all of aussie history.
dont even dare say the H.O either unless your talking about unrefined and uncomfortable.

no, we dont compete to the rest of the world, yet long gone are the days of driving 3.3l Kingswoods.....now theres an exciting car.:togo:
speaking of bland and boring......look to the future coz thats all your going to get.

yes yes yes

[marcosambrose]

Originally Posted by davway

when was the last time you cleaned the sleep out of your eyes?
tell me any time in any history where you could buy aussie built car with 300kw engines and 6ers that are pulling 270kw?
tell me anytime that an aussie car has ever been so good in all of aussie history.
dont even dare say the H.O either unless your talking about unrefined and uncomfortable.

no, we dont compete to the rest of the world, yet long gone are the days of driving 3.3l Kingswoods.....now theres an exciting car.:togo:
speaking of bland and boring......look to the future coz thats all your going to get.

I wasn't talking about strictly australian cars, you know there are other cars being made around the world apart from falcodores....

compare even the new GTS with anything from europe and you comapring apples to oranges, australian cars lack balance, apart from that then yes i think we will be missing out on cheap go-fast saloons in the future..

but hey thats the climate we live in, europe have been driving small cars and mid-sizers for decades so its not the end of the world. im sure alot of australians have already adjusted and know that if they want raw power they will have to pay taxes for it.

[atec77]

Originally Posted by The Monty

I can see us all driving round in Hyundais, Camrys, and Jiangling Landwinds in the not to distant future.

I cant , why buy something like that when the Fords will run until fuel runs out ( or in my case old Jags)

[Nostalgia]

Originally Posted by The Monty

I can see us all driving round in Hyundais, Camrys, and Jiangling Landwinds in the not to distant future.

Not in my lifetime i wont be. No, No @%&*%$ No.

[Falcon Freak]

All US automakers are bankrupt. And it doesn't surprise me because of their poor product planning and economic mismanagement. GM, Ford, Chrysler and their subsidiaries will not receive on more cent of my money. It's German or Japanese for me from now on.

FF

[MethodX]

Such a damn shame.
All that history if they go.

Ah well its Euro for me if they do go. No Japanese.

[banarcus]

Originally Posted by Falcon Freak

All US automakers are bankrupt. And it doesn't surprise me because of their poor product planning and economic mismanagement. GM, Ford, Chrysler and their subsidiaries will not receive on more cent of my money. It's German or Japanese for me from now on.

FF

The whole inline indigineous 6 cylinder thing really burns bad doesn't it mate.

[ECOJET]

the big loss is from a write down, im still a newb accounting student so i dont understand it exactly.
But they actually made record world revenue this quarter of 43billion and its their own country where their sales are dragging them down! we'll see what happens at the end of the next quarter.

"In the first nine months of the year, GM sold 7.05 million vehicles, enough to pull even with Toyota to claim the title as the world's largest automaker. Toyota had claimed that position in the first half of 2007."

they're selling fine, they just gotta manage their costs a bit better.

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by ECOJET

the big loss is from a write down, im still a newb accounting student so i dont understand it exactly.
But they actually made record world revenue this quarter of 43billion and its their own country where their sales are dragging them down! we'll see what happens at the end of the next quarter.

"In the first nine months of the year, GM sold 7.05 million vehicles, enough to pull even with Toyota to claim the title as the world's largest automaker. Toyota had claimed that position in the first half of 2007."

they're selling fine, they just gotta manage their costs a bit better.

A Message from Mark LaNeve, Vice President, VSSM

Late Tuesday afternoon, GM announced the company will record a net non-cash charge of $39 billion for the third quarter of this year. You may have already seen reports of this news in the media last evening and in connection with GM’s Q3 earnings announcement this morning.

This charge is related to establishing a non-cash valuation allowance against GM’s deferred tax assets (DTAs) in the U.S., Canada and Germany, in accordance with the Financial Accounting Standards Board’s Statement of Financial Accounting Standards (SFAS) No. 109, "Accounting for Income Taxes." DTAs are accrued tax benefits that can be used to offset future tax liabilities. They are shown as assets on our balance sheet.

The valuation allowance has no impact on the company’s cash, it does not preclude GM from using its deferred tax assets in the future and it does not reflect a change in the company’s view of the long-term outlook

[PaulMac]

In the first post by EBXR8240,
"Mortgage-related losses at GM's partly owned finance unit overwhelmed auto sales that were the highest ever."
It doesn't appear to be the automotive side of the business which has gone pear shaped, as ECOJET tried to highlight, but GM's foray into the mortgage loan world. Don't be too concerned, only the little man will get hurt, as per Housing and Loan frauds, GM and the big banks will be fine. As will good old FoMoco.
They are not writing off real money only the amounts of claims to future tax benefits, which long ago in the dark ages of economics and accountancy, would not have been allowed as assets in the first place. In the modern era of creative accounting, their only real use is to con.. err convince investors of a greater net worth of the shares by inflating the asset base.
Creative accounting, more hype than reality...give me my Sidchromes and an old motor any day.
Paulmac

[Pedro]

Yeah, you got it PaulMac. getting onto the sub prime market has come home to haunt GM. Fortunately Ford Credit stayed out of that market.

According to articles in the Australian yesterday, Ford has it's head out of water and is looking on the up and up. They expect to have the sales of Jaguar and Landrover wrapped up early 2008 and are keeping Volvo as it is profitable and keeps the Ford group in the semi-luxury market.

[xrfalcon]

Still a heap of second hand cars out there to fix and keep for ever.
Still a sad fact IF this ever happens Ford and Gm have been around to long to colapse and finish up.

Me never own a front wheel drive they s..k

[ECOJET]

thats not gonna happen.
Last figures i saw corolla was best selling car followed by commodore and falcon, the demand is there as is the sales so the big boys wont be going anywhere. There is no way a rwd sedan is going to leave the market

[JAZSXY]

Who owns who...click and see.

http://tides.ws/wp-content/uploads/i...Owns%20Who.jpg

[XAGSV8]

marcosambrose and chich here is a forum you should visit http://www.eurocarworld.com/ as it might be more up your alley (how did you stray to a FORD Forum with crappy Aussie built cars?).

Back to topic. It is sad to see this happening to GM and Ford but part of the problem in the past has been management and the unions in America. If these two companies go under everybody will lose out.

[chich]

Originally Posted by XAGSV8

marcosambrose and chich here is a forum you should visit http://www.eurocarworld.com/ as it might be more up your alley (how did you stray to a FORD Forum with crappy Aussie built cars?)

My apologies for presenting a different viewpoint for discussion. :

This narrow-mindedness is the exact reason why it took Ford & Holden the better part of a decade to lift their game and start producing half-decent cars.

[XAGSV8]

Originally Posted by chich

My apologies for presenting a different viewpoint for discussion. :

This narrow-mindedness is the exact reason why it took Ford & Holden the better part of a decade to lift their game and start producing half-decent cars.

Not just refering to this thread. Here are some examples.

Originally Posted by chich

I wouldn't buy another one. Poor quality, poor after-sales service, poor reliability and attrocious resale. The game's up for Aussie manufaturers... Japanese & European imports are better and in the long run, cheaper.

Originally Posted by chich

I agree 110%. Yes they may be the last of the true Australian performance cars but at the end of the day a Phase III is just an over valued 36yo Falcon. Bring on a Series 1 996 GT3 or 993 Turbo :

Originally Posted by chich

All i'm saying is that Japanese and European manufacturers address quality and realiability issues and learn from their mistakes, they don't sweep them under the carpet a-la Ford style.

[the_judge]

Going off topic, but heres a bit on the new topic??

It will remain for ever.

A key ingredient hard-wired into peoples brains.

Longevity=better value.

You can be fooled by looks and "ingredients", which can sometimes even make up for a low-quality product, but in the end, 9 times out of 10, people get really angry when they discover their product was not built to last, no matter how good it looks.

If you take a look at the BA and to a lesser extent the BF, you will see a whole host of things that could have been made so much better, and actually when you look at each individually you wonder WHY ON EARTH those things were not done.


Classic examples - a decent transmission cooler on the BA. Sheesh ford, you must have known the transmissions would fry, and for 100 bucks extra we could avoid a transmission rebuild at in many cases near 150,000.

Radiators in BA and one of the greatest engenerring bungles ever....the plastic bits (bottle in radiator) near the really HOT BITS...

BA breaks. If they are not premium dont count on them stopping you well, or warping your rotors every 10,000k's. I think technically ford - thats DEFECTIVE EQUIPMENT- AND I hope someone gets you in court over it.

The japanese are all about techno gadgets, and they rarely implement them into their cars unless they really work well....

The Europeans often come with a view about using only tried and tested quality designs. Advanced simplicity.

Ford and Holden are learning. But its a thick head they have. I think its a case of overcoming years of setting up operations to perform dodgy work (i.e factories and proceedures that promote mediocre things rather than exceptional)....they seem to becoming replaced.



The BA is a pretty good car, and I am honestly impressed with it. But you see, the MERE fact that I am impressed with it could lead ford to believe i am completely happy because they see me buying their products.

Well I am not completely happy and their is room for improvement.

Luckily, we are gifted with a company who seem to want (or need to) make the next Falcon the best ever Australian built car.

Its this competition that I am glad to see moreso than anything. People must return to a view of longevity rather than "wow" factor. I dont want a four speed transmission that barely cuts it, that can't be stressed.

I want what Mercedes were doing for so long (before they realised their standards were too high compared to others and would lose nothing by lowering their standards)....that is, they over-engineered their vehicles.

So you could overstress them and have them still last.

Even then you find yourself in a difficult position because you get what you pay for in this life people....the Falcon is a 35K car. Its built to a budget.

I guess what I want to see is advanced simplicity. I want a car that works for a long time.

What I dont get with Ford and Holden is this:

people - other people - have already made cars that are RWD sedans that perform better and ride better and are more economical than holdens and fords.....ITS ALREADY BEEN DONE!!??

I DONT GET WHY THEY DONT JUST DO WHAT THOSE COMPANIES DID AND TAILOR IT TO THEIR CARS. Yet this seems to be happening more and more....holden looking at bmw, etc.....

Sometimes you are better off going and buying an old mercedes for 20K. A 1980 model merc performs pretty damn good, and have 180kw engines and fine handling. Still going strong, so Holden and Ford, why do we need new falcons?

Why has it taken ford near 30 years to catch up.

The two companies are not in the same league and dont share the same philosophy and the value of their products are wildly different.

Put simply.....you get what you pay for.

But one important thing that manufactures know they can overlook (but dont take pride in surely) is the longevity rule.

Bring it back with the orion.