turbo four Falc will outpace a Holden Commodore 3.0-litre V6

SVTVNM · 10-02-2011, 11:38 AM

http://ninemsn.carpoint.com.au/news/...n-tipped-23565

Ford's much discussed four-cylinder Ford Falcon may not turn out to be as limp wristed as some pundits suggest. Indeed, set to debut later this year under the ECOBoost banner, the new direct-injected turbocharged two-litre engine could be a surprise performer – even under the full-sized Falcon's bonnet.

Ford's local engineers are as proud as punch about the results of combining the new turbo four and ZF's six-speed auto in the Falcon. In fact, they have revealed the when it goes on sale later this year.

Ford insiders would not reveal to the carsales Network exactly how the acceleration times compared, but did say the four-cylinder Falcon had "met its targets and that [out-accelerating Commodore] was one of the targets".

In an attempt to minimise potential fallout over the engine's cylinder count and capacity, Ford has instructed all its dealers to refer to the model only as "ECOBoost". It's understood the model will include no capacity-related badging.

Ford USA will adopt a similar strategy when the engine is rolled out into a full-size pick-up model as well as its front-wheel drive Taurus large car.

The last four-cylinder large car made in Australia was a Holden Commodore in the 1980s. It was a kneejerk reaction to the oil crisis and used a cut-down version of Holden's OHV inline six. The so-called Starfire four was a poor performer and used as much as or more fuel than the six it replaced.

A more recent example of a turbo four-cylinder car using as much or more fuel than a six-cylinder is the Mazda CX-7. Despite an impressive fuel rating label figure, its real world consumption is as much if not more than a Ford Territory – and is the reason Mazda rushed to introduce a diesel version as well as a non-turbo 2.5 four-cylinder.

Ford is likely to achieve an impressive fuel rating label figure with the new four-cylinder large car. By way of comparison other petrol four-cylinder cars in the VFACTs large car segment, Skoda's Superb and Honda's accord returns 7.3 and 8.8L/100km in ADR testing respectively.

Ford hopes the four-cylinder Falcon will appeal strongly to government fleets, particularly those such as Queensland which recently adopted a four-cylinder-only policy (with exceptions for emergency vehicles).

"The fleets want this car," said our insider.

"Some have already driven it and are very impressed. They said they couldn't pick it as a four-cylinder. It's no slouch…"

Officially Ford will say little save for this from Ford spokeswoman Sinead McAlary: "We're confident we have a great car for our customers. We wouldn't be launching it if it didn't meet our objectives and our customers' objectives."

TC200six · 10-02-2011, 11:49 AM

Looks like the 4-cylinder Falcon will remain targeted on fleet sales. It would be good to see them being used again by the QLD government after they adoped a silly 4-cylinder only policy for their government vehicles.

Mr Hardware · 10-02-2011, 11:58 AM

I'm relatively certain that the 4-cyl policy was repealed years ago and is now judged on the green car guide.

Wretched · 10-02-2011, 12:01 PM

I am very interested in the EcoBoost4 but in all honesty I'd rather wait until a real review has been done. All this is, is a report coming from Ford.

vztrt · 10-02-2011, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wretched

I am very interested in the EcoBoost4 but in all honesty I'd rather wait until a real review has been done. All this is, is a report coming from Ford.

Yes how dare Ford try and stir public interest in an upcoming vehicle.

Wretched · 10-02-2011, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vztrt

Yes how dare Ford try and stir public interest in an upcoming vehicle.

I am fine with the marketing spin which I would expect from them, however I am not going to take any performance stats seriously until it is on sale and impartial comparisons are done. Of course Ford will come out and give a positive spin like any other make would.

phillyc · 10-02-2011, 12:14 PM

I'm just glad to see that Ford are on the front foot with a product release. I really hope that they continue with this sort of action. Get a positive solid roll on.

ltd · 10-02-2011, 12:14 PM

Sounds promising. Others have driven it and loved it, and an insider to Ford has it that fleets have expressed a great interest in it. Fantastic news.
Has to be better than the Camry Hybrids that the QLD police got which don't fit all the police gear in the boot.

Quicksand · 10-02-2011, 12:19 PM

Well done Ford, keep it coming.

Brazen · 10-02-2011, 12:19 PM

Geesh more fleet sales, Falcon has one of the highest percentage of fleet sales as it is. Im curious why the private buyer is not being mentioned.

Should be interesting to see what happens. Im still curious to see what happens with pricing it above the I6.. I cant think of any car anywhere where the smaller, less powerful engine was more expensive.

I wonder instead if they will just bring out an EcoBoost model to sit below or replace the XT, or if it will be an option across the range?

**DFB FGXR6** · 10-02-2011, 12:54 PM

Price points for the ECOBoost are going to be very interesting. I think it will only be accepted by private buyers if it cost less than the I6 or it is has price parity with it.

Jesmol · 10-02-2011, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

Geesh more fleet sales, Falcon has one of the highest percentage of fleet sales as it is. Im curious why the private buyer is not being mentioned.

Should be interesting to see what happens. Im still curious to see what happens with pricing it above the I6.. I cant think of any car anywhere where the smaller, less powerful engine was more expensive.

I wonder instead if they will just bring out an EcoBoost model to sit below or replace the XT, or if it will be an option across the range?

They used to have high fleet sales, but they've bombed lately

**GasoLane** · 10-02-2011, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

Geesh more fleet sales, Falcon has one of the highest percentage of fleet sales as it is. Im curious why the private buyer is not being mentioned.

Could be because Fleet sales make up a huge whack of total sales.

Another thing is have Insurance companies changed their policies towards turbo's?

A while ago any turbo'd car, including factory turbo's like SAAB, meant a massive increase in policy price.

**Polyal** · 10-02-2011, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GasOLane

Could be because Fleet sales make up a huge whack of total sales.

Another thing is have Insurance companies changed their policies towards turbo's?

A while ago any turbo'd car, including factory turbo's like SAAB, meant a massive increase in policy price.

You would think a policy change is going to be necessary, because manufacturers have been downsizing and turbocharging for a while now.

Example, VW's TSI engines, they must have a heart attack with those..LOL..im sure it cant be that bad..I think premiums revolve around driver history, location and age more than the engine itself.

prasac · 10-02-2011, 01:00 PM

guess people forget the 2L 800hp Turbo Ford Sierra's from almost 30 years ago that was thrashing everything at Bathurst, even make the King of Holden Peter Brock turn blue

gcg2503 · 10-02-2011, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prasac

guess people forget the 2L 800hp Turbo Ford Sierra's from almost 30 years ago that was thrashing everything at Bathurst, even make the King of Holden Peter Brock turn blue

More like just over 20 yrs ago

Circa 1987 - 1988 wasnt it?

prasac · 10-02-2011, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gcg2503

More like just over 20 yrs ago

Circa 1987 - 1988 wasnt it?

yeah released in 1985, was like 88-89 when they got them out here. i will meet ya halfway

how far turbo tech has come since 25 years ago, i'd say it will do pretty well.

AC · 10-02-2011, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prasac

guess people forget the 2L 800hp Turbo Ford Sierra's from almost 30 years ago that was thrashing everything at Bathurst, even make the King of Holden Peter Brock turn blue

Also if you want to look more modern as far as perfomance fours go.

Look at the more current Nissan S15 Silvia's 184kW from the SR20DET
http://www.nissans15.com/
http://www.autoweb.com.au/cms/A_1154...X/article.html

Verses

FG E-GAS is 156kW - 195kW I6 Petrol
http://www.caradvice.com.au/11882/20...pecifications/

Although, the SR20 is getting on these days, still a good performer like the old 2L Cossie motors.
Same tech pretty much, 2L twin cam turbo, So the Ecoboost4 probably not so bad.

gcg2503 · 10-02-2011, 01:26 PM

Looking forward to seeing how this goes when it gets released to all the journalists

Hopefully doesnt suffer the same fate as the Mazda CX7

mik · 10-02-2011, 01:29 PM

this engine is built with the intention of lugging a big car around , will it end up in the focus? i`m thinking it would be a good one.

Swordsman88 · 10-02-2011, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mik

this engine is built with the intention of lugging a big car around , will it end up in the focus? i`m thinking it would be a good one.

Kind of. The engine in question will end up in the Focus ST (Focus XR4 for here) some time in 2012 or so. The 2.0 I4 ecoboost (or variants of such) will end up in 80% of all ford's in some form or another, either as sports versions or low fuel burning base spec versions. With that much riding on it you can see why Ford put so much effort into getting it right and has already spelled out plans for further upgrades over time.

This news is hardly surprising....the only person who should be surprised is the writing of the article, that legendary holden man Josh Dowling. Plenty of evidence of how dumb that guy is.....but even he has expressed concerns over the lacklustre performance of the 3.0 V6 in the VE. Anyone that looks at the expected stats for this engine, combined with gearbox choices, torque delivery and weight, will see it is going to be on par with a AU I6 base model for performane. It will probably feel even quicker but a lack of top end grunt means over the quarter it will struggle to keep with an AU.

Now for all those AU pilots out there, do you think your car is as quick or quicker than a 3.0V6 VE? Given no one has been able to get better than 8.5-9 seconds to 100 out of a 3.0 SIDI omega the answer is obvious.....you bet.

Still can't believe people on here are in denial about this. Complain about the engine appearing too small, or even ongoing wear and tear with the turbo etc. but don't doubt the grunt or the fuel saving. Its already in a bunch of ford cars already and if you check out their performance (on test and atcual real life) its very clear the tech works.

stang65 · 10-02-2011, 01:36 PM

It kills me how they keep comparing it to a crappy holden starfire engine, they are deliberately misleading the public for F@#$%% sake.

This thing has a bloody turbo bolted on which the starfire didn`t, isn`t the formula for engine capacity with a turbo on it to be multiplied by 1.5 to give an equivalent engine capacity for comparing anyway i.e if it`s a 2litre without it becomes a 3 litre with a turbo.

nstg8a · 10-02-2011, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stang65

It kills me how they keep comparing it to a crappy holden starfire engine, they are deliberately misleading the public for F@#$%% sake.
.

its a valid comparison... its the only other time ford or holden have tried a 4 cylinder in their big family cars.

while its not a particularly pleasant way to be compared ford are basically doing the same thing, just with 30 odd years better technology.

stang65 · 10-02-2011, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nstg8a

its a valid comparison... its the only other time ford or holden have tried a 4 cylinder in their big family cars.

while its not a particularly pleasant way to be compared ford are basically doing the same thing, just with 30 odd years better technology.

How can it be valid when the starfire engine didn`t have a turbo on it?
Your not serious are you?

i have a 2 litre without a turbo and someone else has a 2 litre with a turbo and he thrashes me in a drag. How can you compare the two.

nstg8a · 11-02-2011, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nstg8a

its a valid comparison... its the only other time ford or holden have tried a 4 cylinder in their big family cars.

while its not a particularly pleasant way to be compared ford are basically doing the same thing, just with 30 odd years better technology.

actually i wasnt quite right... i forgot about the 4 cylinder vn..., plus the vl 2 litre, but that was still a 6.

NickosBF2XRT · 11-02-2011, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nstg8a

actually i wasnt quite right... i forgot about the 4 cylinder vn..., plus the vl 2 litre, but that was still a 6.

WTF?? The VN came in a 4cyl? And the VL 2lt?? Ha its the first I have heard of these 2.

**Professor Farnsworth** · 10-02-2011, 01:42 PM

well if it's going to be similar to the current 195kw I6 in acceleration, will be see a Falcon XR(4)6?

Road_Warrior · 10-02-2011, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Professor Farnsworth

well if it's going to be similar to the current 195kw I6 in acceleration, will be see a Falcon XR(4)6?

Highly unlikely, it would be inconsistent with the 'green' philosophy behind implementing the engine and given the car will be aimed at fleets, I think it would cheapen the XR image.

**Professor Farnsworth** · 10-02-2011, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Highly unlikely, it would be inconsistent with the 'green' philosophy behind implementing the engine and given the car will be aimed at fleets, I think it would cheapen the XR image.

aimed at fleets, that's fine, but a lot of fleets buy xr6's now, and if the E/B is as good as they're touting, then it could be marketed as a "Falcon XRE" or some such.. After all the xr6 50th anniversary isn't called an XR6, it's just an XR50. So, in light of the way Ford love to change names all the time, it could work. It's a turbo after all, it could still have a lot of after market potential as well.

Road_Warrior · 10-02-2011, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Professor Farnsworth

aimed at fleets, that's fine, but a lot of fleets buy xr6's now, and if the E/B is as good as they're touting, then it could be marketed as a "Falcon XRE" or some such.. After all the xr6 50th anniversary isn't called an XR6, it's just an XR50. So, in light of the way Ford love to change names all the time, it could work. It's a turbo after all, it could still have a lot of after market potential as well.

Those fleets (hire car companies) that are buying XR6's will probably still buy XR6's. However, government fleets who purchase according to the Green Vehicle Guide or their own g/CO2 per klm ratio will be all over the Ecoboost Falcon as it will be a viable alternative to the legions of white Camrys that fill government fleet carparks. Those same government purchasing guidelines generally prohibit the purchase of 'sport' models like XR's and permit only the cooking models to be bought.