Police told to move speed cameras to catch more leadfoots

[csv8]

Police told to move speed cameras to catch more leadfoots

by: Robyn Ironside From: The Courier-Mail November 10, 2011 12:00AM
Police are under pressure to pick locations where they can catch more speeding motorists.
POLICE have been warned to find new places to catch leadfoots if their mobile speed cameras are not flashing more than a couple of times an hour.

An email, obtained by The Courier-Mail, was sent to all traffic police in Brisbane's Metropolitan North Region ordering officers to change camera locations if the site was "not returning a reasonable rate of detection".

Penned by Regional Traffic Co-ordinator Jac Feather, the email expresses concern about falling speed camera detection rates in the region, which has the equal lowest number of road fatalities in the state.

"In recent times there has been an increase in the number of deployments where the detections have been below five for a three-hour deployment," Inspector Feather said.

"Such deployments do not represent best use of the asset."


Police cash in on covert cams

He points out that police operating hand-held guns would not stand in the same spot for three hours if they did not detect anyone speeding.

The directive contradicts statements made by successive police ministers that speed cameras are about saving lives, not raising revenue.

Paul Turner of motoring body the RACQ said he understood mobile speed camera locations were chosen on the basis of their crash history, with a few selected because of traffic volume or hooning complaints.

"It's important they maintain a strict criteria for where they are used, so the primary reason they're used is to reduce speed and save lives," said Mr Turner.

"You'd have to consider if they're getting low numbers of detections, drivers are getting the message and driving within the speed limit."

A Queensland Police Service spokesman said the success of mobile speed cameras was judged on a range of factors.

"(They include) the number of deployments, the volumes of vehicles passing a site and the crash history of the area," the spokesman said.

"A large number of variables impact on driver behaviour in the vicinity of mobile speed cameras and for that reason the relocation of cameras, after a significant amount of time where limited detections are recorded, is encouraged."

The busiest mobile speed camera sites in southeast Queensland last year averaged about 30 detections a day, with the Pacific Highway at Tugun topping the list.

But statistics show the rate is falling, with mobile vans issuing 11 per cent fewer tickets in 2010 than in 2009.

At the same time, speed-related fatalities declined, with 42 deaths in the 12 months to August compared with 53 in the previous corresponding period.

Queensland Police Union president Ian Leavers said the instruction to traffic police to catch more speeding drivers was another example of how the police service was being run like a business.

"This is symptomatic of the sort of pressure our officers are facing to collect revenue for the state because it is broke," said Mr Leavers.

"We object to officers being told they have to run from one speed camera site to another until they get a sufficient number of detections. That doesn't sound like enforcing safety, that sounds like a desperate grab for cash."

He said the police service was already being squeezed by budget pressures, which had led to the announcement of 330 civilian job cuts, reduced overtime and a ban on using high-performance vehicles on escorts.

Opposition police spokesman John-Paul Langbroek said the pressure applied to police to catch more leadfoots was evidence of a "cash-strapped government looking for any potential to increase revenue".

[mik]

if they whip drivers enough so no one dares go over the limit even accidentally any more, where will they get their cash from? they will have to find another cash cow.

[jpd80]

The whole thing sucks, it's nothing more than smash and grab from inattentive motorists and has less to do
with genuine road safety and more to do with an expected revenue stream.

My greatest fear is that speed enforcement will be tightened further with even smaller violations targeted,
I now expect far less leniency as all the one point 130 violations get targeted as critical and pursued
under the pretense of road safety, what campaign will the jerks use, every kph over is a killer?

Politicians suck when they preach road safety but are really after bleeding motorists for minor infractions.

[V8falcons]

From that and previous reports ,it appears again road safety isnt the bigger concern,its the revenue.
Unitl they remove money from the equation I cant take there road safety programs seriously.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by mik

if they whip drivers enough so no one dares go over the limit even accidentally any more, where will they get their cash from? they will have to find another cash cow.

they start reducing the speed limits. has already started happening in SA
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/s...-1226160682040

[GTP owner]

Originally Posted by prydey

they start reducing the speed limits. has already started happening in SA
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/s...-1226160682040

Yep - they will lower speed limits to save us...then rip us blind with more fines.

[Ben73]

Australia is hopeless when it comes to roads and transport.

They tell us to slow down, we do it, then they get upset they make no money. Absolutely hopeless.

[dimka100]

I think that our GovCo is actually very smart …

Firstly they realised that using Police resources to solve crime and catch old fashioned criminals is not making them any money, they then realised that bringing these old fashioned criminals to justice costs even more money as courts are expensive … So instead GovCo has realised an opportunity in collecting money from a new breed of criminals (i.e. motorist), so quickly GovCo has started to reallocate Police resources to catching this new breed of criminals and with some clever internal policies they even managed to keep the courts out on majority of cases and simply collect the cash via a simple invoice/bill style of payments …

However as time went on, GovCo shareholders (i.e. politicians) have become unsatisfied with the lower than expectation returns, so they began to pressure the management in implementing new strategies in better catching this new breed of criminals, and part of that strategy was the broad implementation of technology designed to aid the organisation in identifying this new breed of criminals as well as streamlining the handling and management of payments (i.e. income stream) …

So dear brothers, do not be dis-hearted about our beloved GovCo, after all GovCo is just trying to stay above water and remain competitive in the market place. As with the immanent introduction of the green fund (carbon tax) GovCo further sees an opportunity to grow the organisation forward and capture a greater share of the marketplace (i.e. tax payers wallet) … Please understand GovCo cares dearly for its shareholders (i.e. poleticians) and wants to make sure they are well compensated for all the hard work and sacrifices they have put into this organisation.

So on that note please raise a toast for Govco and its shareholders (i.e. politicians), and know that your contributions are going to the benefit of the organisation and the great future ahead of it.

[ltd_on20s]

as i keep saying, gotta fund an independant.

get all all the people off all the various forums together to set up a fighting fund to fund an independent for drivers. who will be able to hit the government where it hurts, in parliament, on TV, news etc etc. they don't listen unless you can accuse them of fraud in parliment.

xenephon did very well on a one policy no pokies platform.

if we don't, we may as well be p+++ing into the wind.

i'm happy to go to the various forums and see what kind of backing we have.....

i vote flappist for independant seat . he would know what to say..

[flappist]

Leave the party politics out of this or it will end in tears.

Those who live in Queensland will have the opportunity to display their opinions on this and any other political issues a couple of months after Christmas, save it for then.....

[ltd_on20s]

Originally Posted by flappist

Leave the party politics out of this or it will end in tears.

Those who live in Queensland will have the opportunity to display their opinions on this and any other political issues a couple of months after Christmas, save it for then.....

both sides of government don't care flappist. you know this.

election or otherwise.

it's a cash cow to both of them.

an independent is needed to cause them much backside gout.....

[fmc351]

Originally Posted by ltd_on20s

both sides of government don't care flappist. you know this.

election or otherwise.

it's a cash cow to both of them.

an independent is needed to cause them much backside gout.....

No party can afford not to use them because there are limited other revenue streams for government. Its one reason no-one should support any side trying to sell off government assets (and both sides have done it). These generate income (you cant sell off things that dont make money, at least not without offering some incentive which costs taxpayers anyway), and without those assets they need to regain that income elsewhere. Speed cameras, pokies etc all generate significant income.

Whenever they sell off assets, you know in the end the taxpayer, or a subset will always have to make up the shortfall. The only alternative is services suffer instead. Which is part of what happens too.

[ltd_on20s]

Originally Posted by fmc351

No party can afford not to use them because there are limited other revenue streams for government. Its one reason no-one should support any side trying to sell off government assets (and both sides have done it). These generate income (you cant sell off things that dont make money, at least not without offering some incentive which costs taxpayers anyway), and without those assets they need to regain that income elsewhere. Speed cameras, pokies etc all generate significant income.

Whenever they sell off assets, you know in the end the taxpayer, or a subset will always have to make up the shortfall. The only alternative is services suffer instead. Which is part of what happens too.

thats why i go back to drivers needing an independent.

single platform of being there for drivers.

[fmc351]

Originally Posted by ltd_on20s

thats why i go back to drivers needing an independent.

single platform of being there for drivers.

If someone was to stand entirely on a drivers platform, I doubt he/she would get elected, look around any electorate and see which is the most common, nice enthusiast cars, or cars for transport. They would need a much wider scope of policy opinion. IMO.

An independent is only able to be effective (to any serious degree) when he holds the balance of power. At that point, he/she is able to wield immense influence and can hold a government over a barrel, a nice big pork barrel. But, even if they can make enough noise and make a difference on speed cameras, the problem is if in the end the government cant milk traffic, they will just resort to raising taxes/levies etc to make up the shortfall. In the end they need the money, or need to stop providing services.

So those who never get caught by cameras or lidar traps etc, will end up paying via higher rego, or higher stamp duty, or some other form of government revenue raising. As will everyone else. For the most part, most people dont get caught all that often, and when it comes down to a choice between letting speeding motorists pay the bill, or let themselves foot part of the bill via higher rego or stamp duty etc, I wonder which they will choose.

Sure there are a lot of people who like cars, would love to drive faster etc, but not enough in any one electorate.

But still, dont fool yourself it will get cheaper, you will pay somewhere else instead.

[EDManual]

this HAS to be talked about widely before any election. Cant just wait for the day, or will be forgotten by most ordinary folk.

[FG50T]

So what they're saying is POSSIBLY the message they're trying to drill into us has worked and we have slowed down which has made them upset.

[flappist]

This is an important issue and needs to be discussed but the T&C says no politics.

Discussing this in a general way with no reference to any particular party either pro or against will be ok.

There will be an election in QLD about March, you will all have your chance to have your say about which party then.
If you do it here and now it will be deleted and the thread closed.

Like the Police and the speed cameras, I don't make the rules just enforce them.......

[ltd_on20s]

Originally Posted by flappist

This is an important issue and needs to be discussed but the T&C says no politics.

considering that your part of the moderating crew, you think this may need to change?

the entire thing is about politics and politicians using drivers as cash cows!

[flappist]

Originally Posted by ltd_on20s

considering that your part of the moderating crew, you think this may need to change?

the entire thing is about politics and politicians using drivers as cash cows!

If you PM russellw and ask him for his ruling on this my job is to follow that policy.

Anyway back to the topic.....

Many know my personal views on this subject and some of the committees and groups I have been involved in over the years.

Unfortunately all public servant groups tend to get "politicised" in the senior management areas when one party has been in power fro a long time. This is why there is usually a culling after a change of government.

There is no doubt that the cameras are revenue driven and the frightening thing is that they are not even trying to hide it any more. This shows utter contempt for the ordinary people, the voters, the ones who can change the situation..........but do they actually want to change it........

[zdcol71]

Originally Posted by flappist

If you PM russellw and ask him for his ruling on this my job is to follow that policy...............

There is no doubt that the cameras are revenue driven and the frightening thing is that they are not even trying to hide it any more. This shows utter contempt for the ordinary people, the voters, the ones who can change the situation..........but do they actually want to change it........

Hello??!! I think this is something I have been saying on here for a couple of years now. But on many of the times I have put this forward I have been accused of being a GovCo lackey or a socialist??? Just glad I haven't mentioned Queensland in the same post and risked being in breach of the site T&Cs
regarding politics...Oooops...

[ebxr8240]

If the fines went to building better safer roads etc for safety as they claim what the fines are about..
Then it's not such an issue..
Gov use this money in there budget projections so it's for money...

[AussieCJ7]

I feel my thread was unfair deleted but understand its a fine line for the rules in a thread like this and respect that.

LTD on 20s and others there is such parties around but you will need to do your own searching sorry Flappist I trust this stay's within your interputation

My problem with the whole focus on minor speed is that is at the expense of other rules that have a big impact on traffic flow and safety when was the last time you saw a blitz on keep left ?? Drive the F3 and you will see very few people move to the left lane sticking in the middle and right lane with many not doing 110kph

When was the last time we had a blitz on merging correctly ? Yet a car pulling into traffic doing 110kph at 80kph and making no effort to get up to 110kph is plain stupid

These are just 2 examples but there are many more rules in the traffic regulation than speed and drink driving

The other issue is who and how they determine the speed limit which in most cases are wrong 50Kph limit when first proposed was only to be no though-fare residential streets we now have it major arterial roads

[prydey]

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/traffi...-1226191936347

POLICE trying to meet traffic-fine targets have been accused of issuing hefty penalties for trivial offences.

These include penalties for unsecured loads of a few empty drink cans and a handbag on a car's front seat.

Hundreds of motorists were stopped in a blitz at Ceduna last week and one 19-year-old council worker was fined $225 for an unsecured load of half a dozen empty drink cans and milk containers in the tray of the council vehicle he was driving.

He said the Adelaide-based traffic officer in Ceduna for Operation Eyre-Lock had said the cans were the "insecure items of concern".

"We had been trimming some trees up and I picked the cans up when I was cleaning up," the worker said.

"I had only just put them there. I had already been through the traffic block twice during the day."


Yesterday District Council of Ceduna chief executive Trevor Smart said the community of 3800 people, with 35 police officers in the district, was frustrated by a government directive for SA Police to have targets or quotas for traffic fines.

"The level of technical policing that is going on and the angst that has caused the community are frustrating," Mr Smart said.

Ceduna police Senior Sergeant Mick Michael said the council worker's unsecured load had been photographed and the matter could be decided by the courts if he chose to challenge the fine.

Snr Sgt Michael confirmed Ceduna police have "benchmarks" for the number of traffic fines they issue.

"We don't have a specific number ... we have benchmarks but I can't tell you off the top of my head how many."

Opposition police spokesman David Ridgway said he had been contacted by Ceduna residents and a councillor raising concerns that the community was suffering an unfair burden from police road traffic fine targets.

Mr Ridgway said the Opposition believed there should be an Expiation Notice Ombudsman who could independently assess the fairness of fines.

A spokeswoman said SA Police considered road safety "everyone's responsibility".

"There is no quota or benchmark for the number of expiation fines a police officer must issue," she said.

The Advertiser understands some country police stations have been ordered to meet monthly benchmarks for traffic fines or their station could be closed.

[EDManual]

Sounds about right! ^

Tax collectors dressed up as someone who matters.
Sad the police job has been dropped to such a low.

[mik]

reminds me of trucky log books, you could/would be well fined for a spelling mistake or a minor book keeping error, blatant revenueing, but it not the boys in blues fault they are just doing what they are told.

[ltd_on20s]

Originally Posted by mik

reminds me of trucky log books, you could/would be well fined for a spelling mistake or a minor book keeping error, blatant revenueing, but it not the boys in blues fault they are just doing what they are told.

if your boss told you to do something which was clearly morally wrong, would you?

-edit morally is probably not the right word. ethically.

[mik]

Originally Posted by ltd_on20s

if your boss told you to do something which was clearly morally wrong, would you?

-edit morally is probably not the right word. ethically.

not if i could help it.

[EDManual]

Originally Posted by mik

not if i could help it.

If I was a cop, I'd let everyone off, except for what I thought was actually dangerous.
Like getting sideways round a corner with oncoming traffic... not doing 40 over on a deserted highway. No way would I take someones licence away for something so trivial as speeding by themselves where theres no one to hurt.

[SteveJH]

I'm going to ask a question here, and I'm going to ask everyone to put aside their conspiracy theories for a couple of minutes when they read it (if they read it).

Is it possible that if a camera is only getting a couple of hits an hour in a particular site, that its done its job their by slowing traffic down? AND that it is best utilised by sending it to another spot to slow the traffic down there?

Then they can just throw the camera back at the previous spot for one day in every 1-2 weeks as "maintenance therapy" to keep the speeds down.

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by SteveJH

I'm going to ask a question here, and I'm going to ask everyone to put aside their conspiracy theories for a couple of minutes when they read it (if they read it).

Is it possible that if a camera is only getting a couple of hits an hour in a particular site, that its done its job their by slowing traffic down? AND that it is best utilised by sending it to another spot to slow the traffic down there?

Then they can just throw the camera back at the previous spot for one day in every 1-2 weeks as "maintenance therapy" to keep the speeds down.

how dare you look at it from a different side - are you harold scruby

i am not sure it has done it's job, maybe just people are slowing going passed it and not everywhere else. but, yes it is better utilised somewhere else. that way the observant drivers will notice it and the others will complain . . . again