Ford: V8 time is over

[stevz]

http://theage.drive.com.au/motor-new...702-21bk0.html

V8 time is over
Bruce Newton
July 2, 2012 - 7:47AM

Company that popularised V8 rings the death knell for one of the world’s most loved engines.

Ford, the company that popularised the V8 engine 80 years ago, now says its time as anything other than a niche offering is over.

That was the view expressed by the blue oval’s European gasoline engine development boss Andrew Fraser, who is one of the key figures in the company’s embrace of downsized Ecoboost turbo-petrol engines.

“The death of the V8 has been over-publicised in the past but it could almost be on its last hurrah now,” said Fraser.
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He was speaking to Drive in Germany during a sampling of the latest Ecoboost engine, a 1.0-litre three-cylinder turbo that effectively replaces the naturally-aspirated 1.6-litre engine in the Focus lineup, and has been declared 2012 international Engine of the Year.

Fraser was also in Australia recently for the launch of the 2.0-litre four-cylinder Ecoboost Falcon.

He says tightening fuel consumption and CO2 emissions regulations that are driving downsizing and efficiency improvements are a major problem for V8s, the traditional performance symbol in the USA and Australia, and also a feature of German luxury car lineups.

“I think it (V8) will be a niche,” he said. “I can’t see manufacturers investing in new V8 designs with the scales of sales that are available. We will see evolution of existing ones possibly, but there will be very few new engines in the market.

“I think more sophisticated turbocharged and supercharged smaller displacement engines will prevail.”

Fraser, who owns a classic V8-powered Ferrari 328 himself, sees the irony in a Ford-man calling time on V8s, considering it was the blue oval that introduced the engine type to the masses via the Model 18 in the USA in 1932.

“We are as guilty as anyone of pushing the trade-up message … but I think that is turning around in the last few years; BMW, Volkswagen, ourselves are all moving to the less cylinders, less displacement arena.

“Even subtle things like taking the displacement badging off cars, that was very much part of the Ford marketing strategy, having the 1.6 or 1.8 very prominently displayed. We have moved away from that altogether.”

Modern car buyers, he argues now focus more about performance outcomes than having a traditional enthusiast obsession with engine details.

“The analogy I make is with the electronic world; people buying smartphones and computers buy them on performance and battery life in many cases. They don’t really know what density of processor they are buying.

“I think a direct analogy to a car is ‘is it quick enough? Do I get the performance and do I get the fuel economy I want?’ Buyers are much less sensitive to how many cylinders the engine has got, how many cubics inches or cc’s.”

[AndyXR6T]

Pfft even though it's a niche market I still think its big enough to produce the v8. True car fans will never be suaded by taxes and inflating petrol prices

[tex]

Hes European, what else would you expect him to say.

Hahahahaha, Norway recently announced it was going to ban the use of diesel vehicles in some regional areas as a result of the particulate pollution issues they have created. This is the same Government that made anything with a petrol V8 cost more than a house over there. 50 grand vehicles being hit with taxation rules that drove prices to inexcess of 250k.

And tnhey taxed unleaded ridiculously hard as well, in a bid to 'force' peoples hand into modern oil burners....

Now they are going to ban them certain times of the year. the rest of Europe will eventually act on the pollution concern - just watch.

Modern, well maintained petrol burning cars still produce less nasty stuff than diesel. And lately, the whole fuel economy BS is starting to be debunked. Good petrol engines are just as efficient, without the particulate output.

When wasn't a V8 car in Europe over the last 15 or 20 years a niche vehicle?

[MAGPIE]

Originally Posted by tex

Hes European, what else would you expect him to say.

Exactly, bloody Euro's have a lot to answer for.

[Mad_Pom]

I don't think the article was saying no more V8s. I think the message was no large scale investment in an all new V8. Look at the Falcon I6 there has been nothing all new about that for >20 years, just a nice slow evolution and you end up with the Turbo I6.

+1 for evolution from me !! Roll on forced induction on V8s

[jpd80]

“I think it (V8) will be a niche,” he said. “I can’t see manufacturers investing in new V8 designs with the scales of sales that are available. We will see evolution of existing ones possibly, but there will be very few new engines in the market.

“I think more sophisticated turbocharged and supercharged smaller displacement engines will prevail.”

Pretty much a captain obvious article since Mustang and Falcon are it - barely 70,000 V8 cars a year compared to millions of other Ford cars.
but those 70,000 V8 cars can still be justified as a niche provided they make good profit and raise the image of the company.

[aussie muscle]

Originally Posted by Mad_Pom

I don't think the article was saying no more V8s. I think the message was no large scale investment in an all new V8.

Ford europe don't HAVE to develop a V8. if they need one, they can always buy them off mercedes.

We should have our niche v8 platform so long as usa doesn't follow the same path.

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by MAGPIE

Exactly, bloody Euro's have a lot to answer for.

He's English. They think a 1.8 is a big engine.

[Resurrection]

The number of cylinders or engine configuration is irrelevant when engine design is considered. Even if pressures such as fuel economy, emissions and fuel costs become increasingly oppressive, there is no reason why any car company cannot produce a small capacity v8 with all the latest technology. Hence statements such as these such not be given any credibility.

[RedHotGT]

I've never read so much rubbish - that is a particularly bad one IMHO.

Modern car buyers, he argues now focus more about performance outcomes than having a traditional enthusiast obsession with engine details.

Ok - please draw my attention to a 300kw car thats $60-70K (other than the XR6T/F6 - which we already love too) that isn't a V8?
And ok - if it's not the power output that the punters are chasing - then please show me the 'performance' car that also fits within that budget that can pull a 13sec flat 1/4 mile and still comfortably seat 5 people, and also be a car that I can live with day to day?

The analogy I make is with the electronic world; people buying smartphones and computers buy them on performance and battery life in many cases. They don’t really know what density of processor they are buying.

Right - people buy technology for what the item can DO - and has nothing to do with the performance or battery life! We've all accepted that you need to charge your item every day or 2nd day (depending on use) but it ain't about performace. When's the last time that you heard how fast an iPad/iPod/iPhone processes something? YOU DON'T! Because nobody cares how fast it can do something, so long as it DOES IT!

Fraser, who owns a classic V8-powered Ferrari 328 himself, sees the irony in a Ford-man calling time on V8s, considering it was the blue oval that introduced the engine type to the masses via the Model 18 in the USA in 1932.

Ok - so he owns an old V8 Ferarri - hardly a high powered/high capacity V8 car. We're talking a 200kw machine that is capable of 0-100km/h in 5.5 seconds. A $40,000 Subaru WRX is 195kw and pulls a 5.4 0-100km/h, though i'll bet he's not lusting after that machine - if everything is about 'performance'.

I'm sure the new G6 EB would pull similar figures to his classic Ferrari too - i'm just staggered at some of the quotes from this story. FacePalm indeed.

The V8 was always a niche anyways, overall they've always sold more 6cyl than V8 in every segment.

Leave the PR to the experts, and concentrate on developing engines Mr Fraser. Or - start putting together the designs and press release for the EB GT (and I'm not talking about the one from 1993) and see how that one sells...

[b0son]

Originally Posted by loftie

And ok - if it's not the power output that the punters are chasing - then please show me the 'performance' car that also fits within that budget that can pull a 13sec flat 1/4 mile and still comfortably seat 5 people, and also be a car that I can live with day to day?

If performance is the primary objective, why does it have to comfortably seat 5? By and large, we're not single car families anymore - if we need to seat 5, thats what the wife's car is for.

[RedHotGT]

Originally Posted by b0son

If performance is the primary objective, why does it have to comfortably seat 5? By and large, we're not single car families anymore - if we need to seat 5, thats what the wife's car is for.

I suppose I was comparing his statements to the Falcon.

Though - when was the last time that Ford made a Performance V8 that didn't seat 5?

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by loftie

I suppose I was comparing his statements to the Falcon.

Though - when was the last time that Ford made a Performance V8 that didn't seat 5?

Ford GT.
Ford Mustang.

Anyway, there is some truth to what he is stating in that article.
It isn't doom and gloom as indicated, it to me indicates that they will continue with the V8 but not to the capacity that the engines are now and will concentrate more on efficient means of power and performance.

[Uncle Tone]

1983 all over again......Fantastic.

[Ben73]

I don't care how popular V8s are with people. As long as they still make them I'll still be interested.
My current car is a v8 and I hope my next one will be v8 as well.

[HP-0351]

Followed by a News Flash: Carroll Shelby rolls over in his grave!

[Polyal]

Pretty much nailed it Tex..we can try and think we are different but the EU market us ahead of ours even if we have slightly different tastes. They have been pushed into more economical cars long before we started getting fussed about it. Thats why most good diesels are from the EU.

V8's are not going anywhere in a hurry, but thats like someone in 1900 saying the horse and cart will be a thing of the past...really Einstein!

[HP-0351]

Fuel consumption and the environment didn't stop me from buying a BAGT recently...

[DJM83]

Never knew Ford introduced the V8, learn something new everyday. Ill take the rest with a grain of spice.

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by DJM83

Never knew Ford introduced the V8, learn something new everyday. Ill take the rest with a grain of spice.

Didn't introduce... or popularise for that matter.
Patented in 1902, by Leon Levavasseur, first mass-produced by Cadillac in 1914 (Cadillac were the first to mass-produce many things), Ford first used a V8 in the Model 18 in 1932.

[290GTP]

Originally Posted by KIWI-1

Didn't introduce... or popularise for that matter.
Patented in 1902, by Leon Levavasseur, first mass-produced by Cadillac in 1914 (Cadillac were the first to mass-produce many things), Ford first used a V8 in the Model 18 in 1932.

Pretty sure Ford pioneered the V8 with a one piece engine block. Other, earlier manufacturers used multi piece blocks.

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by BigRed220

Pretty sure Ford pioneered the V8 with a one piece engine block. Other, earlier manufacturers used multi piece blocks.

The flathead was used in the Model 18 in 1932. Cadillac used split blocks until 1936.

[Murph-51]

oh nooooooooooo, more doom and gloom, that will be the end of Ford FPV, the miniature V8 I saw on youtube last week for sure!!! lol

why stop there??? Cars themselves will soon be a niche too

[mik]

it`s a load of crap, people still want V8`s, it`s just that the do gooders are making it more expensive to own them , happily i just bought one .

[Murph-51]

wonder if I can purposely stuff my windsor so it blows blue as smoke and drinks mega liters of fuel

[OzJavelin]

Yeah right .. the Europeans are going to tell the Americans they can't have V8s anymore. Goodluck with that ..

[justrod]

history of the v8 ===http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V8_engine===not invented by ford but first mass produced by ford

[Brazen]

The best thing to happen to the brands that will keep the V8 will be the move to smaller engines. V8s will be seen more and more as a premium niche engine. Honda is starting development of a V8 for their luxury range soon, and Cadillac for their upcoming flagship.

[SpoolMan]

Keep the posts constructive without the political jargon..

[Hulsty]

Not a surprise, Ford Aus killed the v8 off a few years ago here, others are following!!