How to avoid salespeople games and nonsense when buying a new car

Behemoth · 02-11-2015, 02:20 PM

So I'm looking to buy a used Territory and found one in a local dealership (not Ford).
I've test driven and listened to the salesman bluff his way through things about the car from the passenger seat.
Now, how do I cut to the chase and put an offer in?
I've had enough with their stupid little sales people games and being treated like an idiot. Examples.

No prices on the cars and I had to sit down with the fool for 20 minutes while he listed all the "benefits of buying from a dealer" on paper for me, in alternating colours of pen then highlighting them.
I then asked how much the car is and he "went to talk to his boss" for 10 minutes. He only came back when I pretended to be on the phone and started walking out the door.

He came back with "Around high 20's". I asked specifically what price and he said "28/29ish". I offered 22.

He goes off to "have a chat with the boss" and they're sitting there for 10 minutes so I walked out. This was Thursday last week.

Car is still there so I went inside found the salesman again and said "here is my number, I'll pay $22k for the car, call me if that's acceptable. I don't have time to sit down and discuss".

He said "come back in your lunch hour and we will sit and see where we can get to" which translates to me as "come back and we will waste your time and treat you like an idiot and make you sign something in desperation on the spot after boring you stupid for hours".

Now I just want to know how I can get away with paying as close to my price as possible without going through all the stupid mind-games and "making a list of the things I like about the car" in coloured pencils.

I'm tempted to just buy one at fixed price auction and avoid all the BS but I can't find one that isn't white!

Why do they have to make a simple things sooooo difficult. Do they not know people have the internet and can do their own price research? Argh!!!

Craig@AUDI · 02-11-2015, 02:44 PM

Why not just ring and deal with the Sales Manager?

Ditch the deadwood in the middle.

Behemoth · 02-11-2015, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig@Rockdale

Why not just ring and deal with the Sales Manager?

Ditch the deadwood in the middle.

The sales manager who doesn't have the courtesy to leave his office and speak to customers? Who keeps them waiting for 15 minutes as part of the game? He seems great. I presume he would have the final say on the deal though eh?

Are you allowed to arrange an inspection of a vehicle on a car yard? Just a local transmission guy not a full on RACQ? I know they offer their "warranty" but in my experience these are worth as much as the paper floor protectors they put in the cars.

Craig@AUDI · 02-11-2015, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Behemoth

I presume he would have the final say on the deal though eh?

Correct.

If it's the exact car you want, it's worth a 5 minute phone call to try.

snowcone · 02-11-2015, 02:53 PM

I haven't bought a car of a dealer for ages but my last 3 attempts went the exact same way.
They wasted all my afternoon with their little mind games "and talking to the manager"
What a bunch of ******* they all are.
Never again will I let them pull those stunts.
Sounds like you are on the ball so make them do it your way or keep walking until they do.

cheap · 02-11-2015, 03:13 PM

Sounds like you've already made the call to walk (which is what I think you should do). Make sure you have their business cards and find another vehicle.

I had an idiot salesman argue over $500 and a set of car mats, he (and his dealership) lost a $110,000 sale. I went down the road and did the deal, I then sent the idiots a mms photo of me taking delivery of the new car

Mr Brooksy · 02-11-2015, 03:09 PM

Sounds awfully like you were at Australian Fleet Sales. Biggest rip off merchants out there.

In your situation, I find it's best to play dealers against each other. Find another you like and go to the yard with the car you like most and then start the negotiations again. Let them know that you are now talking to another yard with another car. Put a timeline on your visit and stick to your guns.

I was so wild with one car yard one day about 10 years ago I played their game directly in their faces after "yes we can", " oh wait, I'm not sure" repeat... During negotiations I picked up my mobile and called (in one of their "I'll talk to the managaer") the other yard and negotiated with both at once. The phone guy won... and also won the fleet deal for the entire state for the next 5 years. The place I was in, was left standing there with the salesman, assistant manager and manager looking rather dull and glum. No sympathy at all!

Unless that car is one in a million, find others. Dealers are there to extract the most $ from your pocket as possible. That's it. If that's how they treat them, treat them as such. If they wont come to the party, take the party elsewhere.

Streets · 02-11-2015, 03:28 PM

And why does it always take 10-20 minutes to get the answer anyway? One time a long time ago I went to pick up some papers for a car I was purchasing and the guy at the desk went back to the office to get the other guy I had been dealing with and it took about 15 minutes. Was he on the toilet taking a ****? When the second guy finally came out to see me, he then went back to get the papers and it took another 15 minutes. It's like it's hard-coded into their car salesman DNA or something!

**Ross 1** · 02-11-2015, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Behemoth

Car is still there so I went inside found the salesman again and said "here is my number, I'll pay $22k for the car, call me if that's acceptable. I don't have time to sit down and discuss".

Basically what you did there is how I have bought my last two cars, test drive, give them a once only offer and leave my business card for them to call me when they can make it work. I put in a fair offer, no low balling, and it worked both times, I also leave it till the last week of the month when they have to make their quota.

new2ford · 02-11-2015, 05:17 PM

Then there's the attractive seductress with the cleavage and the bit of leg they send you in to get conned into paint protection etc!

The more mature and experienced salesmen are usually better to deal with. Some of the young ones are pretty crude. Our best experiences at a Ford dealer include the young salesman who sold us a $40k Territory and then gave it to us with a quarter of a tank. I made him stand at the bowser and it kept clicking off as he kept on asking is that enough then?

Our local country dealer is pretty good but one young rather overbearing salesman insisted on coming with us on every test drive as though we were 16 year olds about to do a runner with the car. One day he was very flustered and said he had something urgent and couldn't come with us and my wife and I did a mental high five. We got in the $20k car and started it up and next thing he comes running over and says great news guys I can come with you after all! We're like

The all time best experience was the BMW dealer in Wollongong. He was very cool and laid back, no pressure, let us decide. We were given a quarter million dollars of metal (two X3s and an X5) to take for long test drives by ourselves. Then he threw in a few thou of freebies. And no sheila with paint protection (BMWs don't need it!) What a nice experience after all those years of dealing with some real chumps. Even though after all these years I can call the chumps at their game. All good blood sport basically!

Trump · 02-11-2015, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by new2ford

Then there's the attractive seductress with the cleavage and the bit of leg they send you in to get conned into paint protection etc!

The more mature and experienced salesmen are usually better to deal with. Some of the young ones are pretty crude. Our best experiences at a Ford dealer include the young salesman who sold us a $40k Territory and then gave it to us with a quarter of a tank. I made him stand at the bowser and it kept clicking off as he kept on asking is that enough then?

Our local country dealer is pretty good but one young rather overbearing salesman insisted on coming with us on every test drive as though we were 16 year olds about to do a runner with the car. One day he was very flustered and said he had something urgent and couldn't come with us and my wife and I did a mental high five. We got in the $20k car and started it up and next thing he comes running over and says great news guys I can come with you after all! We're like

The all time best experience was the BMW dealer in Wollongong. He was very cool and laid back, no pressure, let us decide. We were given a quarter million dollars of metal (two X3s and an X5) to take for long test drives by ourselves. Then he threw in a few thou of freebies. And no sheila with paint protection (BMWs don't need it!) What a nice experience after all those years of dealing with some real chumps. Even though after all these years I can call the chumps at their game. All good blood sport basically!

I love the Ming moles (you kiddies google "Ming" and ignore the references to Flash Gordon) and their reactions when I make observations based on how much they reveal with their body language. I have some stories about my adventures with a few of the paint protection girls I've encountered, but they aren't exactly safe for such a family friendly forum

tonys6550 · 03-11-2015, 07:51 AM

I am in the market to upgrade my car at the moment and I am feeling your anguish my friend.

I have gone into a few dealerships to look at some cars that I'm interested in and it's the same old spiel everywhere you go,"come in, sit down", "I'll just speak to the boss", "back in a minute"

Before you realise it you've lost 20 minutes of your life and that's just to get the for sale price, and you haven't even started to negotiate yet

I went into one particular dealership and started chatting to a nice young salesman but he was arrogant and cocky as hell. He invited me into the dragons lair (the uncomfortable kiddies chair and table on the showroom floor, between the Ranger XLT and the new Mondeo) and after asking him what was the best price he could do on a brand new G6E Turbo, he preceded to go to the Ford website and quote me the RRP straight from their website right in front of me. I looked at him with an incredulous look and hesitantly asked him, is that the best price that you could do? To which he replied, yes, that's what Ford have it advertised as

Needless to say that the last Ford dealership that I just came from offered me the same vehicle for.........ehh, slightly better than Fords drive away RRP haha.
Anyway, I politely thanked the young thug for his time but secretively wanted to slap him up the side of the head to see if his reaction was human like, but I refrained and relayed to him that I had important matters to attend to and must hurry off.
Any way, my pursuit of finding a replacement vehicle at a reasonable price continues. My only advice to you would be, as others have mentioned already is, eliminate all emotional attachment to what you are interested in purchasing and you will be in good standing to negotiate the best possible deal for you.
Good luck.

whynot · 03-11-2015, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by new2ford

Then there's the attractive seductress with the cleavage and the bit of leg they send you in to get conned into paint protection etc!

Sometimes it does pay to at least give salespersons in these roles the courtesy of at least hearing them out and asking a few questions, don’t you think?

new2ford · 03-11-2015, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whynot

Sometimes it does pay to at least give salespersons in these roles the courtesy of at least hearing them out and asking a few questions, don’t you think?

I stay with the ming mole long enough to get an eyeful and short enough for my wife sitting beside me not to notice that I'm taking an eyeful. I reckon that's pretty courteous to all parties.

ltd · 03-11-2015, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by new2ford

Then there's the attractive seductress with the cleavage and the bit of leg they send you in to get conned into paint protection etc!

When that girl comes over to try and sell after market rubbish that no one needs here's what you do. Camp it up a little bit, look at her feet and say; "Oh my God I just love those shoes - my partner has some just like them". They usually walk away after that.

blueoval · 03-11-2015, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ltd

When that girl comes over to try and sell after market rubbish that no one needs here's what you do. Camp it up a little bit, look at her feet and say; "Oh my God I just love those shoes - my partner has some just like them". They usually walk away after that.

ESPJG32 · 03-11-2015, 12:00 PM

mate I developed a system many years ago to buy new cars, and I do it for all of the family - I don't even go to the dealership - I tell the person who is going to buy the car to go and drive whatever they want, decide on what they want and call me - I make sure that if it is a woman, to say she needs her husband and if its a guy, he needs the wife- that way the dealer cannot put the pressure on.

I call several dealers with the same car, tell them I am a buyer for a red mazda or whatever it is, give them my email address and tell them I will make a decision by Friday at 4pm, make sure you get your quote to me before then......when the quote comes in I ring them and say "are you prepared to lose the business for your price" when they say what do you mean, I say "lets get something understood, your job is to sell a car and for the highest price, my job is to buy a car and for the lowest price" so I have your quote, is that the lowest price you can do? If they say yes, I say so if I call you back on Friday and say sorry you didn't get the business, you wont mind because you were not prepared to sell it for less, is that right? If they say no, then I say you had better sharpen your pencil because I am going to buy a car on Friday and the lowest price will win the business.....I will wait for your new email.

Some dealers will refuse to give you a price...in that situation I say that is fine, that position guarantees you wont sell me a car....thank them and move on.... I have had dealers try to call me on Saturday and say I think I can put a deal together for you.....my answer is sorry I bought a car, that is what I told you I was going to do.

There are a couple of rules which you have to apply and tell them what those rules are.
1/ I will not use your price against you to get a better price from someone else
2/ If you miss out on the business I will not tell you what price won it and who it was that gave me the great deal.
these rules are important to maintain the integrity of all those involved and you do not break those rules.

Obviously the old standards of buying at the end of the month etc still apply, but the system above buys cars at very keen prices and don't be afraid to try it on country dealers as well....their volume is less and they are often keen to do a deal, I have even done it with dealers in other states - where the stamp duty is less, I saved $8k on a new FG GT a few years ago and that was after the cost of transport to me. Don't buy accessories/extended warranties etc, keep the deal clean and simple.

Remember dealers do it every day and they get very good at it, most people do it once every few years...they will always be better at working a deal than you if you allow them to have control - you keep control

amiers · 03-11-2015, 09:38 PM

Well some interesting comments on what people think of carsalesmen. just a quick check: they work at at stealerships, they are "time wasting tossers". they speak "verbal diarrhoea" and sometimes "verbal cancer" and are all twits and lets not forget the ming moles. just a quick check on that below.

"Moll or Mole /ˈmoʊl/ is Australian and New Zealand slang, usually pejorative or self-deprecating, for a woman of loose sexual morals, a *****, a slut or a prostitute.

Now before I sit back and get smashed over this post a quick who am I. I have been in the motor trade for nearly 40 years and have been a licensed dealer for 20 of that, I have owned my own car yards for 15 of that. I have worked at most major dealerships, Holden,Ford,Toyota ect. so im not an idiot.

Now I agree that a lot of salesmen are smartarse's, mostly the younger ones, but I can also let you all in on a big secret, a lot of the customers are just as bad if not worse. they all walk in to the yard wanting to go 10 rounds for the title and when they don't win they walk away using the wonderful names in this thread. I do not and never will condone pressure tactics in my yards. I have in fact fired salepeople for doing it. I also don't over price my vehicles and I try to give my customers the best deal I can without giving all the profit away. On the other hand I have told customers to leave the yard and take their money elsewhere, my employee's are not there to be told they are twits, thieves or moles. all car yards have profit in their cars, that's how we make a living, and yes we always have some room to move but there is only so far you can drop.

I don't know how many of the posters own a business or work in sales but if you do I hope you follow your own rules and give your profits away and get called lovely names for it. better still next time your doing the groceries fill up the trolley and when you get to the checkout call the manager and ask him what the best price is or you will go elsewhere if it doesn't suit you, or call him some names get arrested and then call ten lawyers and tell them you will be in court Friday so sharpen your pencils and get back to me with your best price.

Craig@AUDI · 03-11-2015, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ltd

When that girl comes over to try and sell after market rubbish that no one needs here's what you do. Camp it up a little bit, look at her feet and say; "Oh my God I just love those shoes - my partner has some just like them". They usually walk away after that.

Or worse...nice fake cans...my partner has a set too!

vbvbvb088 · 02-11-2015, 05:26 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzFmeNEiEPc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cb0Mgx277g0

esppwr · 02-11-2015, 05:32 PM

If that car is exactly what you want, then turn up with the exact amount you want to pay for it in cash.
Walk in tell them you want that car, walk into the office & put the cash on the table.
Don't say how much cash is in the pile. Make them count it, if they want more money tell them to give you your cash back and your going to the next stealership

The look on there face is priceless when they see the pile of notes.

Ben73 · 02-11-2015, 05:49 PM

Not a fan of dealerships. Multiple times I have been having an initial look at a car I tell them I think it is 'ok' and straight away they start with the whole 'come in to my office and we will sort out the paperwork" line.
The best thing about **** salespeople is I have no trouble negotiating with them because I hate them. Good salespeople I feel bad when I start offering low prices.

I know car salespeople will say "well we have to put up with people trying to screw us all day"
Well maybe so, but it's your job. You are supposed to be a professional, it's no excuse for acting like a sleazebag to everyone who comes in.

STINKY NINJA · 02-11-2015, 05:55 PM

For a start, why would you even look at a car without knowing the price first?
Just the fact that the cars had no prices would have me walking away.
Ive dealt with a lot of car salesmen and they have all been timewasting tossers,and if you think buying from a dealership or caryard is safer,you are wrong,try getting warranty out of them on a secondhand car when stuff goes wrong!
Go somewhere else,or buy privately.

EB# · 02-11-2015, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by STINKY NINJA

For a start, why would you even look at a car without knowing the price first?
Just the fact that the cars had no prices would have me walking away....

Ditto. I would not waste my time in a yard that does not have the prices listed on the car, as well as the sale/statutory warranty sheet on the dash.

Tell them to shove the "high twenties Territory" and look somewhere else.

blueoval · 02-11-2015, 06:11 PM

I trust salesmen as much as I trust politicians. They all spin you the same verbal diarrhea promises, make you sign with them and then bluff their way out when theres an issue. I know not all salesmen are bad, but for the 1 good one there is, there is another 100 out there that treat you like an idiot. It's insulting.

FPV+fteT3 · 02-11-2015, 06:22 PM

Make an offer and leave your number and walk away they will either ring you or you keep looking no need for any games. I use the same approach for buying houses when they start with this we have another offer BS just tell them to sell it to them and see how long before the mystery buyer either can't get finance or changes their mind etc... Car dealers are the same they all talk a good game but talk don't pay the bills ask any DP if someone has cash and wants to buy do the deal (within reason of course) your not getting a new GT for 5 bob.
The secret is to not get attached to anything until its yours if you get all excited and really want it and convey this to the salesman they will try and make more out of you. Look at any purchase like a business decision with no emotion and purely take it or leave it attitude and the salesman has no where to go.

blueoval · 02-11-2015, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPV+fteT3

Make an offer and leave your number and walk away they will either ring you or you keep looking no need for any games. I use the same approach for buying houses when they start with this we have another offer BS just tell them to sell it to them and see how long before the mystery buyer either can't get finance or changes their mind etc... Car dealers are the same they all talk a good game but talk don't pay the bills ask any DP if someone has cash and wants to buy do the deal (within reason of course) your not getting a new GT for 5 bob.
The secret is to not get attached to anything until its yours if you get all excited and really want it and convey this to the salesman they will try and make more out of you. Look at any purchase like a business decision with no emotion and purely take it or leave it attitude and the salesman has no where to go.

Spot on. I highlighted the key area. 'No emotion'. Car salesmen thrive on your reaction to a vehicle. How 'emotionally invested' you have become to it. As soon as they see this, they have you like putty in their hands and will play on it. It is up to YOU as the consumer to get your emotions under control and be strong enough to walk away when the need arrives. It's hard for us enthusiasts to do this. But its a necessary skill you need to learn if you are to negotiate a good deal amicably.

Kieron · 02-11-2015, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueoval

Spot on. I highlighted the key area. 'No emotion'. Car salesmen thrive on your reaction to a vehicle. How 'emotionally invested' you have become to it. As soon as they see this, they have you like putty in their hands and will play on it. It is up to YOU as the consumer to get your emotions under control and be strong enough to walk away when the need arrives. It's hard for us enthusiasts to do this. But its a necessary skill you need to learn if you are to negotiate a good deal amicably.

Spot on. I told one Honda dealer a few months back that buying a car is like buying a fridge to me.

For a laugh, dig out the Movie Suckers -
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0199054/

Pretty much sums up the what we've all experienced one time or another

**Dave R** · 02-11-2015, 09:14 PM

Most recent new car I bought (2014) was extremely quick and hassle free for both myself and the dealer. I knew exactly what I wanted and I knew what they could sell it for- and that's super important. I'd also made anonymous calls during the week to determine what each dealership had in stock and the build dates of each. So when I went down to my local dealer I asked for the sales manager and told him exactly what I wanted, how much I'd pay for it, that I knew he had it in stock and that if he wanted to negotiate the price up I'd drive to the next dealer and make the same offer because it wasn't unreasonable. We confirmed the build date of the car and he agreed to the price, from start to end about a 3 minute process and to date I have not seen anyone claim a better deal than I got on a brand newy.

au2000 · 02-11-2015, 07:18 PM

I agree with blue oval, a car is a car, more often than not if you miss one there is another one waiting to be sold, the more sensible or common the easier to find ( within 5 years from new that is )
3 of my last 4 have been from dealers and I've walked away with the car each time at the price I was happy to pay. That's the key is knowing what the cars generally sell for for ks and condition then work from there.

I've managed to get between 7 to 15 grand off ticket prices for each car but I'm smart enough to know that the dealer is still making something on the car.

Just do your research, check other dealers and know what they have n be firm on your price and don't be scared to walk away and if you have to tell em where you can buy another one from, it's a buyers market ATM.