Sheer unadulterated torture..

[roddy1960]

G'day all....It will never happen but......This morning I came across a video review of a 2015 Chevvy SS on You Tube...our Aussie Holden Commodore with a bow tie...as I watched the reviewer going on and on about how great it was to drive a 'real car ' again and fell in love with it , I felt tortured that our dear old Falcons never got the chance to be ' re-discovered' in Yankland...I have been equally tortured by the comments constantly on our Falcons by North Americans as to how they'd absolutely love to get their hands on a full sized Falcon. If ever Ford U.S. had taken our unique car , spent some cash on developing the Aussie platform for a huge market in the U.S. and other places , I wonder if it might have saved some local manufacturing...Probably not but a nice thought anyway. As I watched a couple of other reviews on the SS I wondered what those chaps would have thought of the FGX XR8 Sprint and the FGX XR6 Turbo Sprint just for sheer joy of driveability..I just wonder and torture myself thinking that they'll never ever know now..Cheers Rod..

[Trump]

There's no point wasting time on what-if scenarios. The Falcon is dead.

[furiousgibbon]

You know what, I love that no one else got the falcon. It's ours. We miss out on lots of good ****, let them be envious. I'd like it if a good foreign car journalist came down here and did an unbiased review of the best falcons, but I don't really need anyone to tell me they're awesome cars.

[Jack91]

Who cares? Americans are brain dead idiots anyway. A compliment from one wouldn't be anything to shout about

[Giant Cranium]

Originally Posted by Jack91

Who cares? Americans are brain dead idiots anyway. A compliment from one wouldn't be anything to shout about

wow. big call, come over and let them know that

[b0son]

Originally Posted by Giant Cranium

wow. big call

Trump. No more needs to be said.

[Ratmick]

Originally Posted by b0son

Trump. No more needs to be said.

Judging an entire country by one small-handed fake-haired orange-skinned misogynist twat like Trump is the same as someone offshore judging all Australians by Pauline Hanson.

Trump appeals to the small niche GOP demographic that feels disenfranchised by things way outside of their control and would grasp anything that offer some slight chance things will return to 'normal' and the United States will once again be a global super-power and they can feel content in their pace in the world view. However most of his own party hates his guts and on the way has alienated Latinos, Muslims and Women. That's a fair percentage of people that would have voted Republican.

In the off-chance he gets elected and the GOP isn't relegated to the wilderness I will be very surprised if he survives (literally) the first year. He'll also find out the hard way there's more to being President than churning out stupid catch phrases...he'll have to learn how to govern.

[ken1939]

Originally Posted by Ratmick

Judging an entire country by one small-handed fake-haired orange-skinned misogynist twat like Trump is the same as someone offshore judging all Australians by Pauline Hanson.

Trump appeals to the small niche GOP demographic that feels disenfranchised by things way outside of their control and would grasp anything that offer some slight chance things will return to 'normal' and the United States will once again be a global super-power and they can feel content in their pace in the world view. However most of his own party hates his guts and on the way has alienated Latinos, Muslims and Women. That's a fair percentage of people that would have voted Republican.

In the off-chance he gets elected and the GOP isn't relegated to the wilderness I will be very surprised if he survives (literally) the first year. He'll also find out the hard way there's more to being President than churning out stupid catch phrases...he'll have to learn how to govern.

And of course Hillary is easily confused with Mother Theresa.

I think the point you may be missing is the average American is tired of the political elite in this country that are only worried about themselves and image over substance. Trump is an outsider, and that is why some people are drawn to him. Sanders, not exactly and outsider who is a self proclaimed socialist and platform was based on free things for all, was popular for similar reasons. However, he needed to call out his opponent on obvious years of corruption, pay for play etc.

To get back to the thread at large, as Joe Biden said during the last election Osama Bin Laden is Dead and GM is Alive. (that of course is not spiking the football as the Potus said was bad to do) and of course GM went and built all new facilities in China to build Buicks and Cadillacs there and ship them back to the US. So that government money, ie taxpayer funds, did not bouy GM producing cars here in the US.

I think that even if the Australian government did get involved in keeping the manufacturing there, I do not think there are any bureaucrats in your government or ours that have the slightest idea or passion how to save any industry in either nation to have a real effect. Its about party and the next election. Kick the can.

The US has had BMW, Nissan, Toyota build plants here and have produced many cars. Of course the difference here is the raw materials are all readily available to produce cars.

I wish it was easy as buy local.

[Gothefalcon]

Originally Posted by Jack91

Who cares? Americans are brain dead idiots anyway. A compliment from one wouldn't be anything to shout about

Interesting view you have !?? Don't forget that these "brain dead idiots", as you refer to them, are the same people that gave us "Falcon" in the first place... and the Ford V8's "we" all love ! In fact... without the Yanks, there'd be no Ford Aus (or GMHolden).

Sure... Aussies have had a big part to play, along the way... but without the Yanks, our driving landscape would have been very different indeed !

I'm the last person to be happy about the Falcon going... and Ford Aus manufacturing ceasing... but I think we at least need to give credit, where credit is due !

D

[OzJavelin]

Originally Posted by Gothefalcon

Interesting view you have !?? Don't forget that these "brain dead idiots", as you refer to them, are the same people that gave us "Falcon" in the first place... and the Ford V8's "we" all love ! In fact... without the Yanks, there'd be no Ford Aus (or GMHolden).

Sure... Aussies have had a big part to play, along the way... but without the Yanks, our driving landscape would have been very different indeed !

I'm the last person to be happy about the Falcon going... and Ford Aus manufacturing ceasing... but I think we at least need to give credit, where credit is due !

D

Agree entirely. If you removed American influence entirely you'd be left with primarily English stuff .. Australia's large car would have been Zephyr/Consul, etc. People have obviously forgotten the number of Morris Minors, Austin 1800s, etc which were commonplace in Australia until the mid 80s.

If you thought Australians would just go it alone, you end up with stuff like the Hartnett (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hartnett_(car)) and Zeta (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeta_(automobile))

Just be happy the American's gave us what they did.

[malazn mafia]

Originally Posted by Jack91

Who cares? Americans are brain dead idiots anyway. A compliment from one wouldn't be anything to shout about

Not sure if they are completely brain dead, but at least they have some level of national pride and patriotism. Aussies would burn their own flag rather than fight for it, there seems to be dislike and disrespect for things Australian here. But I can't work out how the Toyota Camry came to be the number 1 sedan in USA, especially during the late 90s. The square 96-02 model is a horrible disgusting piece of design and engineering. It has no handling , no performance and no style. Seems Americans have a thing for this sometimes. But then you have the original 60s Mustangs and then the revived 05+, which are just works of Art. Any other year mustang was just really undesirable and would rather a Falcon any day . Americans are people of many contradictions I guess ..

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

Not sure if they are completely brain dead, but at least they have some level of national pride and patriotism. Aussies would burn their own flag rather than fight for it, there seems to be dislike and disrespect for things Australian here. But I can't work out how the Toyota Camry came to be the number 1 sedan in USA, especially during the late 90s. The square 96-02 model is a horrible disgusting piece of design and engineering. It has no handling , no performance and no style. Seems Americans have a thing for this sometimes. But then you have the original 60s Mustangs and then the revived 05+, which are just works of Art. Any other year mustang was just really undesirable and would rather a Falcon any day . Americans are people of many contradictions I guess ..

The American made Camry has the highest US content of any car made in the U.S. So even their purchases of the Camry is patriotic

[roddy1960]

G'day all....thanks for adding your thoughts...Valid points as usual . Got to say though..Hypothetically admittedly but if Ford globally had decided to continue a market for larger sized rear wheel drive cars , does anyone think that our unique Australia developed Falcon could have been the basis for that market ?
The uniqueness of our Falcon is just for us and probably quite rightly would never have found a home as strong elsewhere but I'd still love to know what muscle car enthusiasts overseas would make of our GT-P's, GT-F's , F6's, XR8 Sprints and XR6 T Sprints , four doors and all...Even the G6E Turbo's done by FPV maybe as this review shows..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUVWOPxTlSI...Seems they kind of liked it a fair bit...Cheers Rod..

[Trump]

Originally Posted by roddy1960

G'day all....thanks for adding your thoughts...Valid points as usual . Got to say though..Hypothetically admittedly but if Ford globally had decided to continue a market for larger sized rear wheel drive cars , does anyone think that our unique Australia developed Falcon could have been the basis for that market ?
The uniqueness of our Falcon is just for us and probably quite rightly would never have found a home as strong elsewhere but I'd still love to know what muscle car enthusiasts overseas would make of our GT-P's, GT-F's , F6's, XR8 Sprints and XR6 T Sprints , four doors and all...Even the G6E Turbo's done by FPV maybe as this review shows..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUVWOPxTlSI...Seems they kind of liked it a fair bit...Cheers Rod..

Not as it stands. It is too expensive a platform to be used as a bread and butter base. If on the other hand it was to be used in a premium line, it would make plenty of sense.

[Giant Cranium]

as much as they may say that they want one... they don't really, they like the idea of them, thats it.

look how many ss's get sold, not many

[Moby Vic]

Originally Posted by roddy1960

G'day all....It will never happen but......This morning I came across a video review of a 2015 Chevvy SS on You Tube...our Aussie Holden Commodore with a bow tie...as I watched the reviewer going on and on about how great it was to drive a 'real car ' again and fell in love with it , I felt tortured that our dear old Falcons never got the chance to be ' re-discovered' in Yankland...I have been equally tortured by the comments constantly on our Falcons by North Americans as to how they'd absolutely love to get their hands on a full sized Falcon. If ever Ford U.S. had taken our unique car , spent some cash on developing the Aussie platform for a huge market in the U.S. and other places , I wonder if it might have saved some local manufacturing...Probably not but a nice thought anyway. As I watched a couple of other reviews on the SS I wondered what those chaps would have thought of the FGX XR8 Sprint and the FGX XR6 Turbo Sprint just for sheer joy of driveability..I just wonder and torture myself thinking that they'll never ever know now..Cheers Rod..

Ford has studied bringing Falcon to the US many times. The numbers never worked. When I visited Australia in 2012 I made sure to rent a Falcon. It was an XR6. Power was decent, handling felt tight, and I enjoyed it, but it offered no more room than a Fusion (Mondeo). Ford has done a better job of eliminating redundancy than General Motors has in the US. Falcon would essentially be a Fusion replacement here, and Fusion is produced locally and is produced cheaper than Falcon would be. This is a capitalist country, and profit rules the day.

Originally Posted by Jack91

Who cares? Americans are brain dead idiots anyway. A compliment from one wouldn't be anything to shout about

Pity. I guess you'll ignore my Falcon compliments. Me no brain good.

Originally Posted by Giant Cranium

as much as they may say that they want one... they don't really, they like the idea of them, thats it.

look how many ss's get sold, not many

The people who tend to want a RWD V8 sedan here tend to refuse to buy one new. If Ford or Holden could manage to build used cars, they'd sell very well. Also, SS styling is too bland and anonymous for American taste. Falcon looks better, but engineering and producing an LHD version would be prohibitively expensive. I had hoped that the S550 Mustang chassis would spawn an all-new Falcon and RWD Lincoln, but it didn't.

[mik]

Originally Posted by Moby Vic

Ford has studied bringing Falcon to the US many times. The numbers never worked. When I visited Australia in 2012 I made sure to rent a Falcon. It was an XR6. Power was decent, handling felt tight, and I enjoyed it, but it offered no more room than a Fusion (Mondeo). Ford has done a better job of eliminating redundancy than General Motors has in the US. Falcon would essentially be a Fusion replacement here, and Fusion is produced locally and is produced cheaper than Falcon would be. This is a capitalist country, and profit rules the day.



Pity. I guess you'll ignore my Falcon compliments. Me no brain good.



The people who tend to want a RWD V8 sedan here tend to refuse to buy one new. If Ford or Holden could manage to build used cars, they'd sell very well. Also, SS styling is too bland and anonymous for American taste. Falcon looks better, but engineering and producing an LHD version would be prohibitively expensive. I had hoped that the S550 Mustang chassis would spawn an all-new Falcon and RWD Lincoln, but it didn't.

Its a pity you didnt get a go in some of our other popular models , the xr6 is a good car , but strap a big turbo on the side of the 4.0 litre , its something a bit different , i think the F6 or G6E turbo might have been enjoyed moreso in the US , its a different taste to the bent 8 sedan or ute.

[Vesper Martini]

Roddy you keep mentioning our unique car,

What is it that makes it so Unique?

[roddy1960]

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

Roddy you keep mentioning our unique car,

What is it that makes it so Unique?

G'day...You can't get any more unique that OZ being pretty much the only country other than NZ and a couple of south Pacific places that you can buy it..rightly or wrongly...How unique do you want it?...Cheers Rod..

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by roddy1960

G'day...You can't get any more unique that OZ being pretty much the only country other than NZ and a couple of south Pacific places that you can buy it..rightly or wrongly...How unique do you want it?...Cheers Rod..

Where a car is sold, does no make it Unique.

Unique: being the only one of its kind; unlike anything else.

[roddy1960]

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

Where a car is sold, does no make it Unique.

Unique: being the only one of its kind; unlike anything else.

G'day..I have to disagree...WE ARE UNIQUE..There's no-one else like an Aussie , so is our Falcon these days in amongst a plethora of small SUV's , big SUV's, small front wheel drive cars and crossovers etc..New Falcons are as rare as hens teeth...as sad as that is..You call them what you like , I'll call them unique and even iconic ,especially the performance and sports versions that we'll remember fondly and hang on to after October...Cheers Rod..

[.:4:.]

Originally Posted by roddy1960

G'day..I have to disagree...WE ARE UNIQUE..There's no-one else like an Aussie , so is our Falcon these days in amongst a plethora of small SUV's , big SUV's, small front wheel drive cars and crossovers etc..New Falcons are as rare as hens teeth...as sad as that is..You call them what you like , I'll call them unique and even iconic ,especially the performance and sports versions that we'll remember fondly and hang on to after October...Cheers Rod..

In the jan/Feb 2007 Australian muscle car there is (was?) an article "top shelf muscle in demand". The cars were the Calais v, force 6 and 8, Wm caprice v8, grange, senator, ttg, 300c and the bf2 ghia. The article talks highly of the hsvs and the fpvs as is expected, had nice things to say about the v8 Calais v, yet had nothing nice to say about the 6 cylinder version, likening it to an ej holden, and surprisingly, with its "looking dated and even the dash looks out of another era" "it can deliver a soothing, comfortable drive home from work with enough mongral when you want it". The bf2 ghia of course didn't win the comparo, but considering that was said before they got to the v8, it poses the question. Will there be a practical car that fits between the sports car (mustang for arguments sake) and the booring car? With 5 seats that fit people, not 3 little people in the back, and can still go up hills unassisted

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by roddy1960

G'day..I have to disagree...WE ARE UNIQUE..There's no-one else like an Aussie , so is our Falcon these days in amongst a plethora of small SUV's , big SUV's, small front wheel drive cars and crossovers etc..New Falcons are as rare as hens teeth...as sad as that is..You call them what you like , I'll call them unique and even iconic ,especially the performance and sports versions that we'll remember fondly and hang on to after October...Cheers Rod..

Well go out and Buy one, Roddy. They are still on sale in car dealerships.

Of course there is also Unique commodores, and a Chrysler 300c that's pretty similar in spec on sale here.

If you travel to China and Korea they have some large RWD sedans uniquely on sale there too, with V8's even.

[Vesper Martini]

I don't know the figures But I believe they have to damn near give away the commodore to sell it in the US. and as the Vauxhall in the UK. Anyway its history now.

[roddy1960]

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

I don't know the figures But I believe they have to damn near give away the commodore to sell it in the US. and as the Vauxhall in the UK. Anyway its history now.

G'day...About $45,000 U.S. apparently was the price in 2015 for the Commie or Chevvy SS..Cheers Rod..

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by roddy1960

G'day...About $45,000 U.S. apparently was the price in 2015 for the Commie or Chevvy SS..Cheers Rod..

That was back in early 2015 when the exchange was closer to Parity.
they were selling them cheaper than you could buy one here. which enraged a few at the time.

[ken1939]

Lot of ground to cover on this one. I think GM or Ford never wanted to bring back the Ranchero/El Camino (Falcon/Commodore) for a few reasons. I think the US market has been changed by the SUV. I think it dominates the market pretty much.

I do not know what additional steps these vehicles would have needed to muster US DOT standards. I know, the G8 only got a longer front bumper cover, and well the GTO was not much different than the Commodore. In fact I looked at a body shell for sale at a local tech college and it had all the Holden manufacturing tags and Holden Glass. Which surprised me. I think poor marketing on behalf of GM killed the GTO's return. GM did it because they could, similar to the Chevy SS and the G8 lines.

As far as truck sales, I think Ford may have looked at the Falcon at one time, but frankly, F150 Sales are the bread and butter truck. Along with the rest of the F Series Line. I do not think that the margins would have shrunk on the truck side with a Falcon Ute, but being the body style is so long gone from the US market, it may not have done much. Again, they did eliminate the Ranger (Mazda) from their US line up for a reason. More F150 Sales. I cannot get my head around a new F150 costing 50K brand new. I know these prices are low compared to Oz, but I cannot see paying that much for a truck. Its seems that the population at large does not have an issue with driving a truck that cost half of what a house does.

As for the Focus, I can only speak from personal experience. I have a 2005 ZX3 and have 230,000 miles on it and it has been a good car. Beyond brakes, tires and the second exhaust system, two alternators (location of the alternator and bad winter weather) the only expensive repair I had that I could not do whas the PCV Valve hose that split. You had to take the intake manifold off to replace it, and it was worth having the dealership do the work. $400 some odd dollars, but they broke 3 intake bolts. So that saved me a ton of work.

I would consider a Focus ST or a Fusion as its replacement, but I plan on keeping the Focus on the road for another two years. 2.0 with 5 Speed car, still running factory clutch, just replaced the rear brakes last week, they were the originals.

I did like the Focus Cabriolet I saw that is for sale in Oz, but found out its on a different platform than our Focus. I would think that would sell here, but it looks as if Ford North America is going to stay with the 4 door hatch and boot versions going forward of both the Focus and the Fiesta. It would have been fun to graft it to a domestic Focus, but since the platforms are different, to much work.

There are a few blokes here converting G8s into Commodore G8 Utes here in the states.

I had to laugh at the concern that the RS Focus would hurt Mustang Sales. I think the RS is marketed to a different segment of the population, the young drifter set, to combat some of the imported hot hatches. I do see a fair amount of ST Focus and the odd ST Fiesta here and there.

Frankly, I would love to own a BA Falcon XR8, or if I could afford, a Pursuit or one of the last Sprints.

But I can only import a vehicle for the road that is 25 years or older, so if I do get one it will be for a garage queen.

I also understand that MOST of the US Public does not know or care about US History, let alone anything about cars or the history of Australian cars. I want to assure you there are a few of us that "Get It".

I think today's car generation left, and are living their lives on the internet.
(face book, texting etc.) On not so social media.

[kazawaki]

Originally Posted by ken1939

Lot of ground to cover on this one. I think GM or Ford never wanted to bring back the Ranchero/El Camino (Falcon/Commodore) for a few reasons. I think the US market has been changed by the SUV. I think it dominates the market pretty much.

I do not know what additional steps these vehicles would have needed to muster US DOT standards. I know, the G8 only got a longer front bumper cover, and well the GTO was not much different than the Commodore. In fact I looked at a body shell for sale at a local tech college and it had all the Holden manufacturing tags and Holden Glass. Which surprised me. I think poor marketing on behalf of GM killed the GTO's return. GM did it because they could, similar to the Chevy SS and the G8 lines.

As far as truck sales, I think Ford may have looked at the Falcon at one time, but frankly, F150 Sales are the bread and butter truck. Along with the rest of the F Series Line. I do not think that the margins would have shrunk on the truck side with a Falcon Ute, but being the body style is so long gone from the US market, it may not have done much. Again, they did eliminate the Ranger (Mazda) from their US line up for a reason. More F150 Sales. I cannot get my head around a new F150 costing 50K brand new. I know these prices are low compared to Oz, but I cannot see paying that much for a truck. Its seems that the population at large does not have an issue with driving a truck that cost half of what a house does.

As for the Focus, I can only speak from personal experience. I have a 2005 ZX3 and have 230,000 miles on it and it has been a good car. Beyond brakes, tires and the second exhaust system, two alternators (location of the alternator and bad winter weather) the only expensive repair I had that I could not do whas the PCV Valve hose that split. You had to take the intake manifold off to replace it, and it was worth having the dealership do the work. $400 some odd dollars, but they broke 3 intake bolts. So that saved me a ton of work.

I would consider a Focus ST or a Fusion as its replacement, but I plan on keeping the Focus on the road for another two years. 2.0 with 5 Speed car, still running factory clutch, just replaced the rear brakes last week, they were the originals.

I did like the Focus Cabriolet I saw that is for sale in Oz, but found out its on a different platform than our Focus. I would think that would sell here, but it looks as if Ford North America is going to stay with the 4 door hatch and boot versions going forward of both the Focus and the Fiesta. It would have been fun to graft it to a domestic Focus, but since the platforms are different, to much work.

There are a few blokes here converting G8s into Commodore G8 Utes here in the states.

I had to laugh at the concern that the RS Focus would hurt Mustang Sales. I think the RS is marketed to a different segment of the population, the young drifter set, to combat some of the imported hot hatches. I do see a fair amount of ST Focus and the odd ST Fiesta here and there.

Frankly, I would love to own a BA Falcon XR8, or if I could afford, a Pursuit or one of the last Sprints.

But I can only import a vehicle for the road that is 25 years or older, so if I do get one it will be for a garage queen.

I also understand that MOST of the US Public does not know or care about US History, let alone anything about cars or the history of Australian cars. I want to assure you there are a few of us that "Get It".

I think today's car generation left, and are living their lives on the internet.
(face book, texting etc.) On not so social media.

While i agree with most of what you said there may have been a market for Pursuit utes if there supercharged model was available 5 years ago and the powers to be marketed it correctly.In reality it would have taken some one who looked on the long term future and had heavy investment to market this type of Ute not only to the USA but a world market as a specialist car.

[aussie muscle]

Originally Posted by roddy1960

the comments constantly on our Falcons by North Americans as to how they'd absolutely love to get their hands on a full sized Falcon.

and then they wouldn't buy one much like the GTO (Monaro) and SS have languished on dealer lots over the last decade. Like our Australian people, they praise the car's brilliance and then go buy something else.

[FalconXV]

The best we could hope for is if Ford US revisited the Falcon like they did with the Thunderbird, but like a spartan Argentinian spec one with similar clean lines and proportions to the original. There's not really a straight six in the Ford empire now, so maybe outsource one or use the Ecoboost triple. I'm really high.