Is the Phase III the worst thing to happen to Ford Aust?

Mutley · 27-10-2006, 12:44 AM

I've spent the last 35 years dreaming of owning a genuine Phase III. I can still remember (just) watching not only Moffat, but all the other Phase III's rolling in to take 2nd, 3rd, 5th, 7th, 9th and 10th places in 1971 etc, etc, etc...

In the early 80's when I got my licence and an XAGT, it was greaty fun creaming wanabees in their 253's and 308's HK's - HZ's. So Ford's really did rule!!!

But since then, Ford has made performance related comparisons with everything from the XF efi to the BA GT inferring how Ford still is the performance Aussie car to own. Advertising manages to bring back the good old days and show a Phase III in the back ground in some guise.

The Force 6 and Force 8 appear at face value to offer 'hollow' performance features to me. The posts so far from other members point out that HSV still produces quicker cars. Do we still have to live in hope that Ford will one day offer something as revolutionary as the Phase Falcons?

It seems to me we used to lead. Now all we seem to do is follow. Am I being too negative or is the Ford performance mantle after 30 years still relying on the aura left by the Phase Falcons? If the Phase Falcons didn't enjoy the relative success they did, and still do, do you think Ford would try a bit harder today to remain competitive on a relative performance basis with Holden and HSV?

T_Terror · 27-10-2006, 12:59 AM

Youre correct that a lot of people here dream of the good old days.

But there are no more limited run road ready- race cars for homologaiton anymore, instead we have v8supercars.

Plus, ford wasnt the only one to feel the squeeze in GT-HO days.

From what i understand the Force6 and Force8 models ares just tarted up Ghias? Similar to the Holden Storm ute package it looks like..

But yeah, the government is a bunch of wusses for shutting down the HO, it owuld be great to think what kind of crazy cars we'd be driving now!

StookEB · 27-10-2006, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T_Terror

the government is a bunch of wusses for shutting down the HO, it owuld be great to think what kind of crazy cars we'd be driving now!

I was just thinking of that, I wondeer what sought of cars we would be driving now if the phase 4 wasn't stopped.

Lightning Strike GT · 27-10-2006, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T_Terror

But yeah, the government is a bunch of wusses for shutting down the HO, it owuld be great to think what kind of crazy cars we'd be driving now!

Actually the Govt did not forcefully shut down the "super car era" of the early seventies the govt just said to FORD , GMH and Chrysler if you continue to build these things we as the govt (mind you the biggest buyer of cars) will not buy any more cars from you for our fleets the choice is your and the 3 big manufactures voluntarily decided to can the big bangers to stay afloat

uranium_death · 27-10-2006, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AU XR8

Actually the Govt did not forcefully shut down the "super car era" of the early seventies the govt just said to FORD , GMH and Chrysler if you continue to build these things we as the govt (mind you the biggest buyer of cars) will not buy any more cars from you for our fleets the choice is your and the 3 big manufactures voluntarily decided to can the big bangers to stay afloat

I just love the financial blackmail.

That's like saying to Kim Beazley, "If you don't shut up, no more Krispy Kremes for you!"

Some things are just not fair!

qwigybo · 27-10-2006, 05:29 AM

surpercharged v10 BF gtho running 500rwkw and 800nm from the factory
haha

AU-MUSTD · 27-10-2006, 05:54 AM

I like your way of thinking mutley because l too have always had the feeling of ford only doing the bare minimum to stay just on holden and hsv's tail with no real push to build better performance cars than them. Whether it was a limited run of 500 cars it'd be nice for ford to show case and build something with around 350kw min and all the race goodies from there parts pool. There l go again dreaming of something with no chance of reality.

Falcon Freak · 27-10-2006, 07:21 AM

Ford used to be the leader in the late 1960s and 1970s. Then they dropped the ball in the 1980s. Although the XE and XF models comfortably outsold the corresponding Commodore models, how many young people when looking to buy their first car lusted after one of these models? If you wanted a cheap second hand Australian made car with a bit of performance from the 1980s your only option is a V8 Commodore.

Since the early 1990s Ford has tried to return to its glory days. The problem is that although the Falcon six cylinder models always outperformed the Holden six cylinder models (XU6 was lackluster), the Ford V8s since 1991 have always played second fiddle to the Holden V8s. And that is where it counts.

The other problem is the lack of continuity for the Ford performance division. First it was Tickford, then FTE and now it is FPV. For Holden they have HSV since 1987 which has allowed them to build this brand and it now has a fair bit a pedigree. Not to mention many loyal customers.

I still remember in the early 1980s when I first became aware of the Ford v Holden thing that the split between Ford and Holden fans was a lot closer then it is now. If you said you were a Ford fan back then people didn't ask you justify your decision. That is no longer the case and is due to Ford playing second fiddle to Holden for the last quarter of a century.

FF

Mutley · 27-10-2006, 08:27 AM

The main reason behind me starting this thread is that I work for a manufacturing company and we are about to release a new model, the first for 9 years. In a different tact, instead of cranking up the marketing machine, we've spent that budget on adding a few features we know will be well received by our new owners after they have brought the machines.

Why? It is an attempt to build brand loyalty. We want our customers to think after they have brought our machines they have received better than expected value for money.

I think this is also what Ford Australia achieved in the late 60's and early 70's and hence the flow on with the loyalty. In contrast, the Force 6 and 8 has hit the market with the associated marketing bells and whistles for what is essenitally a GT without a spoiler. Perhaps it could have been marketed as "the easy reverse parking model" (no spoiler and reverse parking sensors).

Don't get me wrong, Ford has done some great things in the past few years. The BA in styling was a great recovery from the AU and justifiably earned Falcon the car of the year award. The 5.4 looks good too when you pull it apart.

But as qwiqybo said above, I think what the Force 6 and 8 needed was a few extra Kw's. Say, Force 6 with a bit more boost to give 300KW and Force 8 with 320Kw's, just to keep up in front of Holden.

That would be nice on top of a Bathurst win for the year.

BZINGA · 27-10-2006, 08:44 AM

Yes we all would like to own a mighty phase 3, with the last 2 that ive known been sold at prices of $400,000 & $700,000, i think its only going to be a dream. For Ford to bring out a killer GT would be great, something like what the mustang is running atm, but when they sit around that big blue oval coffee table at head quarters, im sure thats the last thing on there mind. The dream continues.....

SNB05T · 27-10-2006, 08:56 AM

hmmm was just a dirty thought in my dads head when the phase 111 ruled but i too would like to see ford bring back the days of power. i own a ba xr8 while it has a lot of grunt, it needs more. ford should increase the power to 290kw the 6t to 260kw and get rid of gtp and force release gtho with 360kw. make it worth the $70 odd thousand they want us to invest in a gtho

:

uranium_death · 27-10-2006, 08:59 AM

Is the Phase III the worst thing to happen?

No. Why? Because we can say, "Ford once had a real muscle car that whooped the living poopie out of everything else."

As I said, part of being a Ford fan is appreciating its history and true Australian culture. Last night on "The Big Question", Holden was preferred by the audience 66% to 34%. People see the Commodore as THE Australian car. Pity the majority of its designs have been Opel-based. Comparatively, Falcons have been exclusively Australia designed since the XA. The XD (or was it the XE) won the inaugural Australian design award. Part of the Holden following is popular culture, a bandwagon and incorrect perception.

But I do agree, Ford need to develop a V8 that exceeds Holden's, like it once did. Or at least configure a car that complements the V8 better.

Was it the Phase IV or V where they only built 3 of them? I'm still kind of learning to appreciate Ford's history

so please bear with me

But no, the Phase III is something that should be savoured. If the Phase III didn't exist, what would Ford have then? A history of lovely family cars. We already have Mitsubishi for that.

klawsterfobik · 27-10-2006, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uranium_death

Was it the Phase IV or V where they only built 3 of them?

Phase IV, 3 red, and one green, just to add to your knowledge bank.

As for the question at hand... I dont think the Phase 3 was a bad thing, i think it was a bloody good thing. A car that 15 years down the track is still being idolized? Thats a good effort in my opionion. Of course they are going to use it in their advertising etc, it brings back memories from the older folk (no offense) who can afford to buy themselves a new GT.

GTPete · 27-10-2006, 06:42 PM

As for the question at hand... I dont think the Phase 3 was a bad thing, i think it was a bloody good thing. A car that 15 years down the track is still being idolized? Thats a good effort in my opionion. Of course they are going to use it in their advertising etc, it brings back memories from the older folk (no offense) who can afford to buy themselves a new GT.[/QUOTE]

Thats 35 years down the track!

Mutley · 27-10-2006, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTPete

As for the question at hand... I dont think the Phase 3 was a bad thing, i think it was a bloody good thing. A car that 15 years down the track is still being idolized? Thats a good effort in my opionion. Of course they are going to use it in their advertising etc, it brings back memories from the older folk (no offense) who can afford to buy themselves a new GT.

Thats 35 years down the track![/QUOTE]

And thats my point. Do you think Ford today would try a bit harder if it wasn't for the Phase III's immence popularity. As I said, I dream of owning one.

ZA-289 · 27-10-2006, 09:07 AM

The Phase III HO was the best thing to happen to ford Aust!

Ford puts out alot of decent cars, just because they don't have 5 extra kw than the holden eqivulant dosn't mean they're not as good!

We can't have another power war like the late 70's because the gov will ban V8's again!

It's **** easy to make an XR8 **** all over a HSV and visa versa, just because the manufacturer dosn't do it dosn't mean their shite!

majin_andrew · 27-10-2006, 04:37 PM

I think that the Phase III was a great thing to happen to Ford Aus, although you make some great points. I could be wrong, but I don't think that whether the Phase III existed or not would have too much effect on the current falcons.

**Falcon Coupe** · 27-10-2006, 04:47 PM

Mutley, buy an old car and build a tough Cleveland, old school still lives.

Tote · 27-10-2006, 05:17 PM

I think that Ford is now reaping the rewards of dropping the V8 in the XF. The BF suffers from not having an attractive low end v8 model. It is my perception that you can order just about any Commodore with a v8 and option "SS without the badges". You can't do this with a Ford as the DOHC V8 is only available in an XR.
I think it will take time but when BA XR6T and the XR 8 are aged to the point where they are cheaply available to a younger audience we might see some people being swayed towards the blue oval again.
The current supercars racing formula does not help as the promoters do their best to make the cars perform the same and drivers become the centre of attention, not the make of car. Bring back Homologation specials I say.
Regards,
Tote

Falchoon · 27-10-2006, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tote

I think that Ford is now reaping the rewards of dropping the V8 in the XF. The BF suffers from not having an attractive low end v8 model. It is my perception that you can order just about any Commodore with a v8 and option "SS without the badges". You can't do this with a Ford as the DOHC V8 is only available in an XR.

3 valve 5.4lt 220kw(?) V8 is available in non-XR/FPV models.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tote

I think it will take time but when BA XR6T and the XR 8 are aged to the point where they are cheaply available to a younger audience we might see some people being swayed towards the blue oval again.

I've seen XR6Ts selling for just over $20K, probably pick up an early BA at auction for less if you look around.

Mutley · 27-10-2006, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

Mutley, buy an old car and build a tough Cleveland, old school still lives.

I owned an XAGT for 10 years (march 1972) with a 429 Dove / FMX / 3.00 9" running low 13's. I currently have a wife and 2 young kids and dream of the good old days.

Seeing your XA pick the front wheels up brings back fond memories at Ravenswood. Wouldn't it would be nice if the new Force 8 could do that too?

**Falcon Coupe** · 27-10-2006, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mutley

I owned an XAGT for 10 years (march 1972) with a 429 Dove / FMX / 3.00 9" running low 13's. I currently have a wife and 2 young kids and dream of the good old days.

Seeing your XA pick the front wheels up brings back fond memories at Ravenswood. Wouldn't it would be nice if the new Force 8 could do that too?

Of course it would be nice, but even if they had the power, they don't have a 9" diff to tolerate it.

4Vman · 27-10-2006, 06:45 PM

Without the Phase 3 ( and other GT's and GTS's etc) we wouldnt even have V8 Fairmonts today.. let alone decent performance cars to choose from......

mik · 27-10-2006, 09:37 PM

definatley the best thing henry ever did in oz, what 4vman said

TURBOTAXI · 28-10-2006, 07:11 AM

The xy GT was the fastest 4 door car in the world for some years after its release - kind of put Aus on the world car map.
I suppose the great thing is you can build a decent replica (or just one) for much less than what a new GT costs.
I bought my XT when I was 18 because I couldnt find an XY. I still went for the 351 top loader combo. I dont know if it would be as quick as the AU Turbo, but it sure felt quick.
I think the XY GT was a great thing for the Aus car industry, I wonder if Ford would re-tool for the XY and make a 2007 version (modern everything but looking like a real XY)?

S3SR · 28-10-2006, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TURBOTAXI

I think the XY GT was a great thing for the Aus car industry, I wonder if Ford would re-tool for the XY and make a 2007 version (modern everything but looking like a real XY)?

yes i want one. and i love the 2007 re-released XYGT idea. they should make like 300 hundred and invite all of Ford's BEST customers or even those who bought one of the originals.

i dont think the Phase III was the worst thing but the Best like everyone says even young blokes like me who werent around for it still remember it and show someone/anyone a pic and they go holy **** Ford really made that

anyways poor Marketing and management i think destroyed the car industry of today, that and petrol prices and the greed for more $$$ and power which means less for the end user....oh well

WINDSR · 28-10-2006, 10:07 AM

Tell me, do you all think Ford is concerned about the V8 Supercar scare that happened to the Phase 4? Maybe they will stay just behind and let GMH do the HP chasing. Just a thought that crossed my mind, but im thinking way out left field.

mik · 28-10-2006, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WINDSR

Tell me, do you all think Ford is concerned about the V8 Supercar scare that happened to the Phase 4? Maybe they will stay just behind and let GMH do the HP chasing. Just a thought that crossed my mind, but im thinking way out left field.

ford would definatley be cautious about losing money on any project in these times of poor economics

EBFalcs · 28-10-2006, 11:56 AM

holden have now achieved something similar to what the phase 3 did (fastest production four door in the world) holden have just smashed the record for having the fastest production ute in the world. i don't care if it's ford or holden as long as we pull off a few more feats like this i'll be happy.

needaXYGT · 28-10-2006, 07:08 PM

im 18 and dream of owning something along the lines of the XY-XD models, because of their great history they bring along with them, but when i get to school (which i just finished), all my friends want these stupid supras and skylines. i try to tell them they will never be as great as the early model falcons. owning a supra is like owning an electric harley, its just not the same.