We need a 15% GST

[ego gtp]

Originally Posted by turbodewd

Some tradies do whole or partial cash in hand, so they avoid income tax. But they cant avoid the GST when they buy a TV or a hair straightener for the Mrs.

This is the simple point some are struggling with, they are happy to pay income tax while others rort it.

But noone can avoid the GST when u buy a box of condoms or a bullbar.

Id love to also abolish deductions and reduce the income tax rates accordingly. No more rorts.

Condoms are gst exempt if your going to start a thread with your so called fixes at least get your facts right

[Pedro]

I only read the OP and if your fair dinkum ... you've got no idea.

[|||]

bring the gst down to zero & fire all the public servants. make it all user pays. if you want to educate your kid you pay school fees. if you get sick pay the hospital yourself instead of using my tax dollars because you ate too many chicko rolls. if your house is on fire i hope you paid your annual fire protection subscription because my tax dollars aren't funding the fire dept any more.

the tax system is just funding the nanny state

[atec77]

Originally Posted by 04redxr8

Are you serious?? And which of those 4 categories do u fall into?

The one he missed



goose

[GhiaEB]

Originally Posted by |||

bring the gst down to zero & fire all the public servants. make it all user pays. if you want to educate your kid you pay school fees. if you get sick pay the hospital yourself instead of using my tax dollars because you ate too many chicko rolls. if your house is on fire i hope you paid your annual fire protection subscription because my tax dollars aren't funding the fire dept any more.

the tax system is just funding the nanny state

Wait, what? Chicko rolls are bad for you? Damn!

[tranquilized]

Originally Posted by |||

bring the gst down to zero & fire all the public servants. make it all user pays. if you want to educate your kid you pay school fees. if you get sick pay the hospital yourself instead of using my tax dollars because you ate too many chicko rolls. if your house is on fire i hope you paid your annual fire protection subscription because my tax dollars aren't funding the fire dept any more.

the tax system is just funding the nanny state

There are plenty of countries around the world with this system.

They're called third world countries.

[atec77]

Originally Posted by turbodewd

As a normal PAYG taxpayer I find it annoying that the following groups avoid or minimise massively their income tax:

super rich
crims
small business operators
those in the cash economy

Now at least they cant avoid the GST when they visit a restaurant, buy a TV or a Big Mac.

Now if I was in charge Id bump up the GST to 15% so these people actually pay some tax. I would also work out the value of this tax increase and reduce income tax accordingly. Try to make it revenue neutral. But we would see less tax paid by PAYG taxpayers and more by the above groups.

Now if need be we could use some revenue to help retirees, bump up their pension to offset the slight increase in prices (4.5% theoretically).

The correct thing to do incedently is dump all tax bar the gst and a 1 or 2% tax on bank transactions .The would remove about half the civil bludgers and tax dept , several other detail to sort but it would certainly negate the cash economy to a larger extent and provide a more mobile economy with disposable income being increased

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by svo supporter

Bump the GST up, businesses will bump the prices of goods up. So Mr and Mrs consumer have to pay more for goods.

Mr and Mrs Consumer are likely to follow the trend of shopping for goods overseas, causing even more damage to our local business, employees and economy.

Bad, bad idea.

[turbodewd]

Originally Posted by 04redxr8

But dont certain items still have a sales tax attached?

No mate, the sales tax system was totally abolished, replaced by the GST. Sales Tax Assessment Act 1992 - RIP in year 2000.

[04redxr8]

Ok, just a number of things that I noticed in 2000 that never changed price as we were promised they would.

But on the other fuel excise is another name for sales tax. An if IIRC from a report I saw aome time ago, in Queensland buying a block of land inccurs approx $110,000 in State, federal and Council taxes.

[350125GO]

Originally Posted by |||

bring the gst down to zero & fire all the public servants. make it all user pays. if you want to educate your kid you pay school fees. if you get sick pay the hospital yourself instead of using my tax dollars because you ate too many chicko rolls. if your house is on fire i hope you paid your annual fire protection subscription because my tax dollars aren't funding the fire dept any more.

the tax system is just funding the nanny state

LOL you are a bloody moron. Freerepublic is >>> way!

[MITCHAY]

I think if you are being realistic, the cash economy in general pretty much rules this out.

You can't lower income tax and up GST effectively when you really do not know how much money goes under the radar.

The best way is in reporting against industry benchmarks and targeting those with unexplained wealth.

[ILLaViTaR]

What I don't get is why workers are taxed around 47% whilst businesses are 30% flat. Surely it makes more sense to tax the richer sector.

Interesting idea with the GST but it's the same gap if the income tax percentages remain the same.

[Auslandau]

So you are saying that the business sector are the rich ones and by taxing them more it would not effect the prices you pay????

[GT0132]

Originally Posted by ILLaViTaR

What I don't get is why workers are taxed around 47% whilst businesses are 30% flat. Surely it makes more sense to tax the richer sector.

Interesting idea with the GST but it's the same gap if the income tax percentages remain the same.

It is only businesses in a company structure and some trusts that pay 30% tax. Not all businesses. Not sure where the logic comes from that businesses are richer and therefore should pay more tax. If we hiked up company tax rates to say 48%, then we would lose any remaining competitive advantage we had in this country and businesses would simply shut up shop , sack its workforce and move off shore.

In the long run profits end up being distributed to shareholders at which time the balance of the tax is paid being the differnce between the individuals marginal tax rate and the 30% tax the company has already paid.

There are also strict rules on the tax treatment of distributions to shareholders of private companies given under the guise of a loan in order to avoid/defer tax.

[Geez Louise]

I wasn't going to post again on this thread but it is full of so much mis-information I think I should!

From the OP's first post it was evident to me that his opening statement was so wrong. Let's raise the GST to 15% so the rich will pay more taxes.

The GST (Goods and Services Tax) gets paid by EVERYONE!! Don't get me wrong, it is better than the Old 22% sales tax system we used to have, and I can tell you right now, within the next 5yrs, we will see an increase in the GST to 12.5%. The government is waiting for the right moment to up it...but that can be discussed and complained about when it does happen!

Back to the OP's opening statement - What are you going to do. Someone does their grocery shopping...."I am sorry sir but I need to see a current bank statement and asset list so I know what I need to charge you...the 10 or 15% GST."

The reason the wealthy in this country are so wealthy, is that they are asset rich and cash poor. Having said that, they all look great on paper but the majority of wealthy people in this country do not own anything! Their banks or finance brokers/lenders/inverstors own it!

So how do we fix this? It is certainly not to increase GST across the board, so that everyone pays, but perhaps we should introduce an Equity tax - but only on people who earn above $175,000 a year. Or would you prefer it was done on people who earn over $80,000 a year?? Wow, they earn 80k a year, own their own home and drive a nice car...they must be rich!!

Ignore the fact they have worked hard, have also given up many things to get that job and have EARNT that pay, they own less than 40% of their home and the loan on their car still has 3yrs to go.....let's tax them more anyway because those lucky bastards earn more than me!

My thoughts.....let's tax the stupid....Oh wait...that is what we are doing already!! The smart ones already go and find a loophole or a fantastic accountant who actually does their job correctly and saves them money so they can become wealthy!!

Tall poppy syndrome is alive and well in this country and growing day by day.

Now if we taxed that, the country would be No.1 in the world for wealth!

Cheers
Col

[wrongwaynorris]

Originally Posted by chevypower

Socialism is a utopian idea that does not work in the real world. That's why Obama is failing, and Europe is sinking!

So true , the ONLY place socialism has ever worked was in the Kibbutz System in Israel in the very early days of the state of Israel . The thing I really despise about the chip on the shoulder brigade of the left wing of politics is the denegration of excellence and the elevation of mediocrity . recently demonstrated by Wayne Swanns attacks of Clive Palmer , Twiggy Forest , Nathan Tinkler et al et al . I mean they only keep hundreds of thousands of Australians directly employed on very good salaries and millions more indirectly employed .

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by DJL351

A bit like Pauline's idea to just print more money......... Yeah sure!

Don't laugh, the US FED does it every minute of every day around the clock. Its called "quantitative easing".

Its effects are to screw the US bond market, adds to inflation, reduces the value of the US dollar and so petrol (for them and us) increases in cost, and then the US uses some of its 'strategic reserve' to reduce price, simply has OPEN smiling, - as the reserve has to be refilled - at the higher prices at some stage! Its all a bargain. The practice is an attempt to aid the US housing market, but it'll fall in a heap, further.....

[pauljh74]

Originally Posted by ILLaViTaR

What I don't get is why workers are taxed around 47% whilst businesses are 30% flat. Surely it makes more sense to tax the richer sector.

Interesting idea with the GST but it's the same gap if the income tax percentages remain the same.

"Workers" get taxed 46.5% on part of their earnings - the part above $180,000 per annum

http://www.ato.gov.au/individuals/co...83&mfp=001/002

Companies subject to the company tax system pay 30% on every dollar of taxable profit.

For the OP, you do realise that a GST is a regressive tax?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regressive_tax

Dropping income tax and then upping the GST means lower income earners will spend more of their after tax income in GST as they spend most or all of their income on day to day expenses - Rent/mortgage, Food, utilities, fuel, services. Some food attracts GST, Utilities attract a GST as does petrol and services like tradies and mechanics etc. So more of their money goes in total taxes.

The wealthy person who is earning $200k a year can spend $50k a year (for example) on their day to day expenses and pocket the rest. Their lifestyle may result in them indulging in more luxuries and spending even more, but generally they can comfortably live and save money.

You suggestion is likely to create a shift by increasing the tax portion on their spending/consumption, but likely an even bigger drop in income tax. So it would result in the tax burden on higher incomes overall becoming less.

[cs123]

It will be interesting to see if the popularity of offshore shopping via the internet will cause a rethink of GST.

[turbodewd]

Originally Posted by pauljh74

"Workers" get taxed 46.5% on part of their earnings - the part above $180,000 per annum

http://www.ato.gov.au/individuals/co...83&mfp=001/002

Companies subject to the company tax system pay 30% on every dollar of taxable profit.

For the OP, you do realise that a GST is a regressive tax?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regressive_tax

Dropping income tax and then upping the GST means lower income earners will spend more of their after tax income in GST as they spend most or all of their income on day to day expenses - Rent/mortgage, Food, utilities, fuel, services. Some food attracts GST, Utilities attract a GST as does petrol and services like tradies and mechanics etc. So more of their money goes in total taxes.

The wealthy person who is earning $200k a year can spend $50k a year (for example) on their day to day expenses and pocket the rest. Their lifestyle may result in them indulging in more luxuries and spending even more, but generally they can comfortably live and save money.

You suggestion is likely to create a shift by increasing the tax portion on their spending/consumption, but likely an even bigger drop in income tax. So it would result in the tax burden on higher incomes overall becoming less.

Paul,

Ive got news for you. A person on $200k is probably very good at minimising his income tax. But a person on a healthy salary cant avoid the GST. The GST my grandmother pays per year is probably tiny, she doesnt buy LCD TVs, just groceries really. Nor does she dine out often. Nor will she buy airline tix often.

So I put it to you that the GST is very good at collecting a lot more tax from higher income earners.

The beauty of the GST is that crims, cash economy, super wealthy cant avoid it when they dine out, go the movies, buy a flash car.

Income tax is flawed in this country...i dont think anyone will disagree on that.

[pottery beige]

righto bucko so by your way of thinking.. we all need to pay more gst so as to stitch up the crims and rich dudes....

yea right..

crack pipe much....

[jmack]

this is why our govs are stuffed when u have people like this advising them on new ways to screw everyone

[vanman_75]

Originally Posted by turbodewd

Paul,

Ive got news for you. A person on $200k is probably very good at minimising his income tax. But a person on a healthy salary cant avoid the GST. The GST my grandmother pays per year is probably tiny, she doesnt buy LCD TVs, just groceries really. Nor does she dine out often. Nor will she buy airline tix often.

So I put it to you that the GST is very good at collecting a lot more tax from higher income earners.

The beauty of the GST is that crims, cash economy, super wealthy cant avoid it when they dine out, go the movies, buy a flash car.

Income tax is flawed in this country...i dont think anyone will disagree on that.

so your gunna let me pay 30 percent less on my taxable income and only add 5 percent to my living expenses ... buddy ya just gave me 100 thousand in my pocket , pity the lower income earners who would wear the pain . you will never get more money from your way of thought , not possible ....fact.

[TMC]

Originally Posted by turbodewd

As a normal PAYG taxpayer I find it annoying that the following groups avoid or minimise massively their income tax:

super rich
crims
small business operators
those in the cash economy

Now at least they cant avoid the GST when they visit a restaurant, buy a TV or a Big Mac.

Now if I was in charge Id bump up the GST to 15% so these people actually pay some tax. I would also work out the value of this tax increase and reduce income tax accordingly. Try to make it revenue neutral. But we would see less tax paid by PAYG taxpayers and more by the above groups.

Now if need be we could use some revenue to help retirees, bump up their pension to offset the slight increase in prices (4.5% theoretically).

As a small business owner I will tell you what a 15% GST would do. It would inflate the price of everything. What I charge my clients would go up accordingly. It would make no difference really to what I pay as a small business operator because I claim input tax credits, ie I don't pay GST on goods and services I buy to go about my business. GST is only paid on the profit margin basically and that is paid by the consumer, YOU. Is that what you want?

Basically small business and large business are compulsory tax collectors for the gov.

I think what you really should be talking about is income tax reform. We have one of the most complex income tax systems in the world.

Also slugging small business for really no reason makes no sense. It's hard enough running a small business without it being lumped in with crime syndicates and mongrels like that. I take offense at your ill conceived thoughts and comments.

[PHATXR8]

Originally Posted by turbodewd

Some tradies do whole or partial cash in hand, so they avoid income tax. But they cant avoid the GST when they buy a TV or a hair straightener for the Mrs.

For someone who says they worked for years at the ATO and have a good understanding of the how the Australian tax system operates, you clearly know NOTHING about how GST operates. In fact you are a fraud.

When someone buys a TV or hair straightener they DO pay GST. Regardless of whether or not they pay with cash, cheque or credit card, the GST is still paid.

Hopefully there will be some mass sackings of IT contractors at the ATO when Juliar is booted out at the next election! There is waaaay too much taxpayers money wasted on nuff nuffs like you!

[cs123]

Originally Posted by PHATXR8

When someone buys a TV or hair straightener they DO pay GST. Regardless of whether or not they pay with cash, cheque or credit card, the GST is still paid.

I think he is talking about how some small business owners work cash in hand. It does happen. I've been offered 2 prices quite often, lower price for cash in hand.

[TMC]

Originally Posted by Geez Louise

As I understand it, the OP contracts to the ATO.

There is a big difference between someone who "Contracts" for the ATO and someone employeed directly by the ATO. Just wanted to clear that up

Is he a cleaner at the ATO then?

[Yellow_Festiva]

Income tax may be flawed as a whole in your opinion, but it's designed to fit 95% of the population with no gripes.

You CANNOT EVER please everyone, nor can you make it 'right and fair' for the whole population. This is just the way it is.

I run a very small scale online business. I import items from South Korea and sell them here. I bring in my goods in small quantities so I don't pay any import taxes. Now, you see, I travel a lot, and while I'm away business still runs its course. I get sales, the customer gets their product and every 3 months I fill out my BAS and pay whatever I need to pay.

I also have tossed up the idea of living in Korea. If I did this I would be able to greatly increase sales for myself due to the fact I can look for more products to sell etc. I would still ship stock home myself to a partner to on-sell. Under the current system, I still pay tax on what I make, regardless of if I spend my profits or not.

In your system, if I were living overseas I would not spend a cent here, I would make more money and pay hardly any tax as my only local expenses / spending would be postage and packaging costs. The locals who pay a heap more tax than me while making less will then say that the system isn't fair for them.

There may be more to it of course... I'm not about to research the legalities etc..

I know many people who make a heap yet still drive a basic car that gets updated every decade, cook at home 7 days a week, hardly see a doctor and hardly travel within Australia... they would LOVE a 15% GST and no income tax... I also know an equal amount of people who make the average wage, live like kings, eat out heaps and spend all they make in a week by the following week... They will HATE paying more for everything.

Anyway.....

Don't like your idea and don't mind the status quo...

[flappist]

Originally Posted by turbodewd

Paul,

Ive got news for you. A person on $200k is probably very good at minimising his income tax. But a person on a healthy salary cant avoid the GST. The GST my grandmother pays per year is probably tiny, she doesnt buy LCD TVs, just groceries really. Nor does she dine out often. Nor will she buy airline tix often.

So I put it to you that the GST is very good at collecting a lot more tax from higher income earners.

The beauty of the GST is that crims, cash economy, super wealthy cant avoid it when they dine out, go the movies, buy a flash car.

Income tax is flawed in this country...i dont think anyone will disagree on that.

You really do live in a bubble.

Crims STEAL STUFF.....no GST there.
Cash economy is the people who buy and sell in cash.....BUY and sell....no GST there.
Super wealthy.....the what??....will just set up to claim it all back so they don't pay any regardless.

I have a plan to save money:

Public servants (and contractors) are paid on productivity not hours.

An example of how this is done.
100 examples of "Form 123" is given to a group of business owners, corporate employees and sole traders to process.
The average time taken to process the form becomes the benchmark.
If the form takes 15 minutes then instead of $30/hour public servants (and contractors) are paid $7.50 per form.
If they work really hard and do 200 forms in a week they earn $1500.
If, on the other hand, they spend their week on flexitime, smoke breaks, updating their facebook status, talking to their friends, drinking coffee and whatever else instead of processing the forms they are paid to process they get $NOTHING.

Of course to make this work, the mangers are paid on the number of forms processed by their charges and have the ability to sack those who produce less than, in this case, 120 per week averaged over 10 weeks.

And so on up the line so the public service becomes efficient and public servants (and contractors) have the same conditions and requirements as the ordinary workers of Australia, the shop staff, tradies, hospitality workers, the ones that actually make the country despite the public service.

The end result of this is that we all get a tax cut because govco will only need a tiny percentage of the money they waste at the moment.