Proposed Changes to QLD Second Hand Car Buying Consumer Protection Bill

[csv8]

BUYERS of second-hand vehicles more than a decade old will be left with no consumer protection in Queensland under law changes proposed by the State Government.

The Motor Dealers and Chattel Auctioneers Bill due to go before Parliament this year, removes the requirement for licensed dealers to provide a statutory warranty for older vehicles and those with more than 160,000km on the clock.

The one-month or 1000km warranty protects consumers if the vehicle has mechanical problems but can cost dealers a considerable sum.


A significant number of cars on Queensland roads are 10 years or older, with the average age of 4.6 million registered vehicles 9.6 years.

Queensland's peak motoring body, the RACQ, has voiced its concern about the change, saying it would leave first-time car buyers and those least able to afford mechanical repairs without any safety net.

Technical researcher Russell Manning said the RACQ supported change that reduced red tape but this change to consumer protection would only benefit dealerships. "The consumers will be the biggest losers if the proposed changes go ahead, particularly young drivers and those who aren't able to afford a newer car," Mr Manning said.

"The vehicles most likely to require the cover from a statutory warranty are those that won't be covered if this Bill goes ahead."

Unlicensed and backyard dealers are not required to provide a statutory warranty for older vehicles, making licensed car dealers a better option for buyers of older vehicles.

Mr Manning said the dealers had lobbied the Government for the change to reduce costs and regulatory burden.

"It could encourage buyers to opt for a non-dealer sale," he said

Vehicle safety was another issue, Mr Manning said.

"The people buying those sorts of cars can least afford to have something go wrong," he said.

"If it does and they can't afford to fix it, you're left with some pretty dangerous vehicles on the road."

Brisbane Motor Auctions' principal Michael Kennedy also raised concerns about the removal of consumer protection in a submission to the Legal Affairs and Community Safety Committee which is examining the Bill.

But Attorney-General Jarrod Bleijie told Parliament last year the legislation would cut costs and the regulatory burden for dealers.

"Removing short-term, statutory warranty requirements for older, typically low-value vehicles will make legitimate sales of these vehicles more viable," he said.

"It will also reduce the prevalence of illegal dealings in these vehicles."

The committee will report to Parliament on February 24.
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/q...-1226804572589

[Revolver]

I remember my father saying in the 90's that there will be a shift to get rid of older cars on the road, and move to how Japan requires people to have a car no older than 2-3 years old. IIRC.

Street machine did a similar editorial in 1999 I think. Cash for cars or along those lines.


Maybe this is a start towards that.

[2011G6E]

And so it begins...

I've been waiting for years to see what the next move is going to be to get rid of old cars. In the past I've mentioned how, every five years or so, someone will come up with a brilliant idea to get old cars off the road, "unsafe", "get people into newer cars", etc.

Usually it's one of the big makers...I believe Mazda may have been the last one back in the early 2000's...who say that "in the interests of safety" that cars older than 5 years be banned from the roads. Not to increase sales or anything...but for "safety"...sure it is...

It goes back to the early eighties as far as I can remember...some car maker or another will come out with this idea, but usually, governments won't bite. but of course our new Nazi government here in Queensland would be the first to consider such a move along those lines.


I've often commented on this and other forums asking when it will pop up again. Some people don't believe a government will "restrict peoples rights", while not acknowledging that Australians don't actually have any rights other than those the government of the day decides we are ALLOWED to have...we have no "bill of rights" in our constitution. Some people don't think it could be done as people would be too annoyed. Since when does a government care if it annoys people?

Can't say I'm happy to have been proved right...

[OzJavelin]

I'm an advocate for keeping older cars running .. And indeed my daily driver is a 10yo SV8 .. BUT I go into older car ownership with my eyes wide open.

There are plenty of good cars out there under 10yo and their prices just drop all the time.

Instead of stretching the budget trying to by a 10yo+ 4WD, SUV, V8 etc .. And complaining it doesn't have a warranty .. maybe people need to reset their expectations to be realistic and buy a 5yo 4-cyl sedan, etc if they can't afford to fix anything that comes along?

[Mr Hardware]

Sorry to agree but it sounds sensible to me - I mean seriously, would you expect warranty on a BA these days, for example???

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

Sorry to agree but it sounds sensible to me - I mean seriously, would you expect warranty on a BA these days, for example???

Yes, I would if I bought it from a car yard.
Anyway, Ten years old is nothing with modern cars. They usually have all the safety stuff people keep bleating on about...air bags, modern crumple zones, anti lock brakes, etc...so except for price, if they are reasonably well maintained, they will be as good as a lot of modern cars.

Not to mention I don't see how the state government can override the standard consumer protection that all buyers of all goods from businesses are covered by. Remember being told repeatedly not to be conned that something doesn't have a warranty? Remember being told that even when something is out of warranty, if a reasonable person would expect it to still give good service but it doesn't, you can still have some recourse?
Why are cars a special thing? They're just a mechanical device you have purchased from a business...and it's up to that business to ensure that what they have sold you is of decent quality. if car dealers don't like that, then they're in the wrong business...

[rancidpunx]

The only thing the Government need to do with used cars is stop double dipping on stamp duty. They had their bite of the apple when the car was sold new.

[Itsme]

Buying a used car older than ten years old from any dealer would most likely be flogged or seen better days, why would you bother.

[csv8]

2011G6E..My BF Mk 2 Ghia is nearly 7 years old (May) has 135,000kms up and runs like new.
Only problems..diff bushes replaced at 50k. Otherwise, just routine, batteries, tyres servicing etc. Still has original rotors and brake pads. I expect to be changed at 140k service....at 10 years it would be past the 160k limit for used cars.
The Fez is 7 in September and has 70,000kms up...all I have done to it is servicing, batteries, tyres etc. Cann't fault either Ford. Now I have jinxed myself!!!! As you said 'age is immaterial with modern cars" I would add, if maintenance is done...

[xxx000]

One month or 1000km warranty, that's hardly a warranty let alone worth bitching over

[sneaky]

isn't this already the case in nsw? i think it is even the same figures of 10 years or 160k's - i was chatting to a sales guy last year about it.. and i think that all 'commercial' vehicles (utes, etc) don't have much warranty when buying used

[Trump]

Originally Posted by sneaky

isn't this already the case in nsw? i think it is even the same figures of 10 years or 160k's - i was chatting to a sales guy last year about it.. and i think that all 'commercial' vehicles (utes, etc) don't have much warranty when buying used

Not sure about NSW but its been the case here in Vic for a long time.

[XP6]

I bet the car yard wont reduce the prices accordingly. ..

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by XP6

I bet the car yard wont reduce the prices accordingly. ..

Nope...but you can absolutely guarantee that they would raise the price of anything newer than 10 years...this is what people talked about back when they came up with the "ban cars older than five/seven/ten years" proposals years back. The makers somehow thought it would make more modern cars suddenly "affordable" for lower income people who until then had bought "old cars".

Just how donkey-brained stupid are they? If you limit people to newer cars and get rid of the older stuff, exactly why would they magically become cheap?

[Revolver]

Originally Posted by rancidpunx

The only thing the Government need to do with used cars is stop double dipping on stamp duty. They had their bite of the apple when the car was sold new.

Hahahaha. Your funny.

Never happen. They virtually do the same with land sales.

But they also triple dip in our lives. Tax on what we earn, spend and buy.

Double and triple dipping is what they do.

Originally Posted by xxx000

One month or 1000km warranty, that's hardly a warranty let alone worth bitching over

And on the 31st day gOd decided that this car shall now longer live.

<BOOM>

[Smoke Pursuit]

It's a good move. A 10 year old car deserves no warranty. You want warranty, then buy a newer one. Will help private sales too as there will be no point in buying a 10 year old plus car from a dealer.

Cars are throw away items it's not like the old days when they were built to last.

[csv8]

Dash GT... very expensive throw away items!!

[devilcv8]

Originally Posted by sneaky

isn't this already the case in nsw? i think it is even the same figures of 10 years or 160k's - i was chatting to a sales guy last year about it.. and i think that all 'commercial' vehicles (utes, etc) don't have much warranty when buying used

Yes it is, and has been that way for as long as I can remember.

Just checked, sky hasn't fallen yet.

Come on Qld, it's about time you caught up.

[Spurious]

Dealers already use this system of no warranty, "sold as is where is" ring any bells.

You seriously need to stop finding stories in the local paper & uploading these threads.

[nstg8a]

What's with people bitching about csv's threads lately?

Their good conversation pieces, that affect a large amount of us.... If you don't wanna read them then don't?

I don't like the idea of losing the warrenty, simply because dealers are shonky enough now, this removes any burden whatsoever.

Whilst I back my own car knowledge enough not to buy a lemon, there's plenty of people out there that don't know a ball joint from a water pump from an airbag.

It will be open season on the gullible buyers.

[Franco Cozzo]

I didn't think dealerships would sell these really old cars anyway?

I know when I was at Honda we got some old trade ins and they asked us first if we wanted them before they went off to the auctions to disappear from the yard. We only really sold the later model stuff without eleventy million kilometers on the clock.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

I didn't think dealerships would sell these really old cars anyway?

I know when I was at Honda we got some old trade ins and they asked us first if we wanted them before they went off to the auctions to disappear from the yard. We only really sold the later model stuff without eleventy million kilometers on the clock.

New car franchise dealerships don't but plenty of small used car dealers do. They buy them wholesale off the big franchise dealers for nothing, make them look pretty then sell them.

[Franco Cozzo]

That would probably be one of the only reasons you would buy a second hand car from a dealership because of the warranty they have to offer, it wont be worth buying it from them anymore in this scenario.

Might as well as go private sale as it will be cheaper.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

I didn't think dealerships would sell these really old cars anyway?

I know when I was at Honda we got some old trade ins and they asked us first if we wanted them before they went off to the auctions to disappear from the yard. We only really sold the later model stuff without eleventy million kilometers on the clock.

You be lucky to find a used car that is over 5 years old in any Dealership, a rarity these days unless the car is in exceptional excellent condition.

As for buying used cars older than 10 years old from any used car dealer be prepared to be robbed.

[blackf6]

Yes If you want proper warranty buy a new vehicle. But selling roadworthy vehicles and good serviceable vehicles are two different things. Like a second hand GT with brembo's that are past it with lips bigger than a dinner plate, with shot diff bushes. Roadworthy (barely) in a good serviceable condition (NO). And the stat warranty doesn't even cover these items. I have purchased many second hand vehicles. I budget 6 grand on repairs.
The stat warranty is not worth the paper It's printed on. If you notice problems with the vehicle ask for them to be fixed, If not just walk away. Or get an independent RACQ check done and give them the list, once again if terms aren't met- walk away.

[BENT_8]

In SA for any vehicle to carry a used car warranty it must be less than 15yrs old and have travelled less than 200,000k's.

If both these are met it goes on purchase price.

For vehicles up to and including 3k there is no statutory warranty
For vehicles $3001 to $6000 a 2mth/3000km warranty applies.
For vehicles over $6000 a 3mth/5000km warranty applies.

The 2mth/3000km warranty is a recent addition to our system which was previously 3mth/5000km for any vehicle over $3000.

If you want my opinion I believe used car warranty's should be extended, not withdrawn.
If new vehicle manufacturers can offer 5/10yr drivetrain warranty's which have increased 5 fold in the last 20 years, used car warranty's should increase also.

[GasoLane]

In NSW it's .............

The Motor Dealers Act provides a statutory warranty of 3 months or 5,000 km from the date of sale (whichever occurs first) on second-hand vehicles, which includes demonstrator vehicles, that have travelled less than 160,000 km and are less than 10 years old (from the date the vehicle was built).

[Revolver]

Originally Posted by teak81

Yes If you want proper warranty buy a new vehicle. But selling roadworthy vehicles and good serviceable vehicles are two different things. Like a second hand GT with brembo's that are past it with lips bigger than a dinner plate, with shot diff bushes. Roadworthy (barely) in a good serviceable condition (NO). And the stat warranty doesn't even cover these items. I have purchased many second hand vehicles. I budget 6 grand on repairs.
The stat warranty is not worth the paper It's printed on. If you notice problems with the vehicle ask for them to be fixed, If not just walk away. Or get an independent RACQ check done and give them the list, once again if terms aren't met- walk away.

^^^^^This is exactly right.

There are plenty of other fish in the ocean.