Wheels - June 2007

[sleekism]

While it is fair to compare two new cars on the market the problem was there was hardly any space given to the Typhoon it was more of a review of the GTS than a comparo.

Also the reference to the GTP was just stupid: they might as well whinge about the crappy Holden SV6.

I actually own the original Wheels review of the FPV GT where it is praised for it's bucketloads of low down torque, it's ability to rev and it's brilliant handling while Holdens 5.7 was bagged for it's wheezy torque lacking Chevrolet V8 and now all of a sudden the bored out 5.7 is brilliant while the EXACT same Ford V8 is now crap.

It's obvious that Wheels has Holden bias I have been a long time buyer and only stopped because they kept putting a Holden on every fruckin cover and the Holden was continuously praised for being innovative smart blah blah Holden exports Monaros to America..........heres some interesting info: The Monaro was a flop in America and Holden lost a lot of money on it.

I find Motor is the best multi marque car mag and I still read the All Aussie Adventure from a few years back as it was a good Holden and Ford comparison from XR6 all the way to GT including utes and sedans.

It was also an interesting read too that in the test the SS was quicker than the Clubsport and on the Dyno the most powerful car was not the 297kw Holdens but the 290 kw GT.

Of course the Clubsport GTS won the comparo over the Typhoon but what was avoided by the journo was that the Typhoon was only about 0.2-0.3 seconds behind in the quarter and the 0-100.

What also should be highlighted is that the Chev donk is a highly stressed motor reaching peak power output with the only way further increases could be made is by further increasing capacity.

The Typhoon on the other hand is a average joe long stroke six built for highway cruising and towing witha turbo sitting on it. The engine is designed for longevity and reliability and is very understressed and also detuned as not to embarass the GT (don't believe have a look at the valve timing the DIVCT is not even utilised they could have probably had the same result if they used the SOHC motor out of the EL).

Typhoon can compete with the GTS without even trying. Bring on Orion.

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by SpoolMan

I spoke to David Flint about this some time back as it was supposed to be on the BF FPV range, different gear boxes, wheels sizes all play a part in how this works, in short not enough money or time, this was ditched as was the Mono Shocks the BF FPV range was supposed to have, which nearly made it until the 1st batch had contaminated oil the contract was cancelled with the overseas company that was making them.
Roll on Orion..

Interesting this, especially considering that FPV would have known that their main rival was geared to have this as an across the board option on all their models.

I for one was real disappointed that the FPV BF range did not have access to this great technology considering that ORION was still a good 2 years away when BF was marketed.

Seems to me like all the assumed costs are swallowed up by the way FPV build their drivetrains. HSV have their crate motors which obviously work real well and make economic sense and FPV are struggling with local development costs for their "hand built" units.

There really is no excuse why this was not an option on BF and especially for BFII. Ford are taking no risks and I expect that by the time ORION will arrive, GM will be so far ahead again with public perception that it will be too late to claw anything back.

Little by Little, people's perception of the FPV brand is that of second rate , second fiddle performance to HSV. ( IF NOT ALREADY )

The VE has now overwhelmed both the GT and the F6 ( not that most of us who own the FPV marque give a RATS ) but the general public consensus is constantly being fed this subliminal information. FORD / FPV constantly miss these opportunities to capitalise. The repercussions flow down into the mainstream models and I reckon FORD can expect to be overtaken by MAZDA in the general sales race soon............................ :togo:

I for one will NOT trade up to an FPV ORION product unless it is way ahead in TECHNOLOGY and performance. NOT WAY AHEAD from BF but WAY AHEAD from GM and HSV..........................In the magazines and in the real world.

Sick of the excuses

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by SpoolMan

I spoke to David Flint about this some time back as it was supposed to be on the BF FPV range, different gear boxes, wheels sizes all play a part in how this works, in short not enough money or time, this was ditched as was the Mono Shocks the BF FPV range was supposed to have, which nearly made it until the 1st batch had contaminated oil the contract was cancelled with the overseas company that was making them.
Roll on Orion..

Those shocks make a massive difference, I too eargly await them.

[sleekism]

Bring bach the red powdercoated engine with Tickford badge and you've sold me an orion

[HSE2]

Originally Posted by mark180227

im not doubting that the ve is probably a better car...

but the way the article was written and how the typhoon was made out to be was a bit dissapointing...

The VE is the better car (in this case) and the senator is better again for my money it just doesn't have a manual option.


Different reviewers have different opinions and so on. Nine will get you ten that should the same GTS be reviewed items such as suspension poise and steering feedback won't be regarded as highly. Same applies to every review. On balance though, multiple reviews will give a better appreciation for short comings and praise points.

Having driven the GTS and the F6 and my own GT-P, I would probably buy the GTS. The interior is a let down for me because I was expecting more. The red option is too much and the dark option too dark. Not enough contrast and the quality isn't the step up a completely new platform might be associated with.

MRC is what I told people it would be. Some people will see a benefit others will think it is a **** factor. The bad news is that HSV have a lot of development left in the system. I serious doubt FPV has this option up their sleeve for Orion and as such from this point on FPV will always have a greater compromise built in. I hope I am wrong. I can say they never spent much time with MRC selected to track on a B or C grade road not to Tassie standards (or lack there of)


I honestly don’t know too many people away from forums that are in the love with the VE shape. Even the GTS owner isn't rapped about the front and has taken to parking the thing face first against the wall. Personally I don't like the look or proportions but it wouldn't stop me from buying it. Brand loyalty aside it’s a no brainer so I am happy there is at least one manufacturer paying attention and the sales number back it up. Compare HSV SWB cars to FPV now! Life is too short.

If FPV don’t address the Boss engine and move towards real suspension gains I won’t hesitate in swapping to a later generation GTS.

But none of that will change the inconsistency that comes up from time to time within the media. You won't have to go far to find quotes for the BOSS that state it’s a free, smooth, quick revving engine just as OHC engines tend to be. You simply have to take it for what it is. Different cars, different reviewers, different conditions and roads will give different opinions.

It’s so much a case of not shooting the messenger but shooting the message.

During the FPV day, FPV themselves were able to roll out sales numbers showing the inevitable decline of the V8 (yes again). Not one of the guys making the presentation actually had much of a clue why those numbers were as stated. The easiest and most convenient was to blame the climate of today. In the red corner not more then a month ago they release sales growth numbers for the fuel sapping V8 segment. They can't both be right and consumers aren't dumb. They will eventually see through the offerings and select the best respectively of what is on offer.

[banarcus]

It would seem that there are some noses out of joint here. In my opinion, WHO CARES, this is a Ford forum where the magazines dont need to PREACH TO THE CONVERTED!!

The GTS is and should be the better car. Tickford rocker covers wont change that. If Wheels gives so much grief, just stop buying it.

[XWGT]

Originally Posted by marcosambrose

I ditched the mainstream australian motoring media in favour of top gear a couple years ago, clarkson tell's it how it is, and doesn't give bias to a car because it 'has good reliability'.

damn journos

Word
Top Gear is normally a pretty good indicator of what deserves your $, and what dosnt.

[zigzagnt]

Originally Posted by marcosambrose

I ditched the mainstream australian motoring media in favour of top gear a couple years ago, clarkson tell's it how it is, and doesn't give bias to a car because it 'has good reliability'.

damn journos

As a part english person i can't stand clarkson ,He gives Brits a bad name i think i prefer hammond and May?

[T3ts50]

Originally Posted by XWGT

Word
Top Gear is normally a pretty good indicator of what deserves your $, and what dosnt.

I prefer EVO over top gear, To many ads in Top gear IMO

[XWGT]

Originally Posted by T3ts50

I prefer EVO over top gear, To many ads in Top gear IMO

Thats why I DL them. No ad's, no stress :-)

[freaky]

Originally Posted by ESP

I for one will NOT trade up to an FPV ORION product unless it is way ahead in TECHNOLOGY and performance. NOT WAY AHEAD from BF but WAY AHEAD from GM and HSV

I am never leasing or buying another FPV again. The dealer aftercare and support has been non existent based on my experience . I don't care how good their future products turn out to be.

All cars have problems and the aftercare plays a big part. Ford/FPV have let me down. I don't think this will change. There certainly is no perception it will.

I like the way HSV is heading with the new CEO and the emphasis on dealer support etc. It may be all talk, time will tell, but sounds like a step in the right direction.

[HSE2]

Originally Posted by freaky

I am never leasing or buying another FPV again.

That's a shame

[sleekism]

Didn't FPV sell more SWB vehicles in 2006 than HSV?

I remember sales figures showing that excluding Monaro based vehicles FPV was ahead in sales.

[HSE2]

Originally Posted by sleekism

Didn't FPV sell more SWB vehicles in 2006 than HSV?

I remember sales figures showing that excluding Monaro based vehicles FPV was ahead in sales.

No. There was a handfull between them right till the E series launch. Then HSV sold something like 600 plus units in 7 weeks

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by freaky

I am never leasing or buying another FPV again. The dealer aftercare and support has been non existent based on my experience . I don't care how good their future products turn out to be.

All cars have problems and the aftercare plays a big part. Ford/FPV have let me down. I don't think this will change. There certainly is no perception it will.

I like the way HSV is heading with the new CEO and the emphasis on dealer support etc. It may be all talk, time will tell, but sounds like a step in the right direction.

My issue aint with the pre sales or the after sales service. I've been looked after extremely well............so far.

My issue is that FORD are just so way behind with what the automotive arena has to offer in terms of useful technology.

I understand that the BF platform is 5 years old, but the cars are marketed today and any upgrade needs to take the new technology into consideration.

I still can't believe they managed the 6 speed auto...............that was certainly against the grain and KUDOS to FORD for having it on offer. They just need to pull the finger out and offer these upgrades as part of the model update.

Changing headlight and tail light design just doesn't cut it anymore, particularly when they knew that the BF would be competing head on with the VE for 12 months before ORION.

LOW sales for BFII will only serve to pinch money from future projects. It becomes a long spiral down from there and you can see it from the OVERALL sales figures already. it becomes a cumulative thing

DSC / ESP should have been a standard feature on all FPV vehicles from BF onwards PERIOD................. :

[sleekism]

Man you people whinge a lot:

We have a freakin turbocharged falcon from the factory.

I'm only 18 but throughout my interest in Ford's the horsepower under the bonnet has increased exponentially.

Ford doesn't have the luxury of huge catalogue of motors to choose from all we have is a V8 dating from the early 90's designed for pick up trucks.

The way I see it Ford and Holden have swapped spots.

Holden now builds the large saloon using an imported yank V8 while Ford has the hot six.

The problem is that FPV has to go much trouble providing a V8 for whinging enthusiasts that it can't afford to develop new technology. I wonder if they make any money of the V8's as all as more turbos are sold by FPV than V8's.

I predict that FPV will drop the V8 or at least not update at all and concentrate on making the Typhoon a killer and then they will wait until the Hurricane V8 starts getting churned out and then import that from America so mas to sell GT's at a profit.

VL Commodore: V8 125kw L6 Turbo 150kw

Which is now the cult car? think about it.

[AEF_Silver94]

i never ever bought a wheels magazine before

[banarcus]

Originally Posted by sleekism

Man you people whinge a lot:

We have a freakin turbocharged falcon from the factory.

I'm only 18 but throughout my interest in Ford's the horsepower under the bonnet has increased exponentially.

Ford doesn't have the luxury of huge catalogue of motors to choose from all we have is a V8 dating from the early 90's designed for pick up trucks.

The way I see it Ford and Holden have swapped spots.

Holden now builds the large saloon using an imported yank V8 while Ford has the hot six.

The problem is that FPV has to go much trouble providing a V8 for whinging enthusiasts that it can't afford to develop new technology. I wonder if they make any money of the V8's as all as more turbos are sold by FPV than V8's.

I predict that FPV will drop the V8 or at least not update at all and concentrate on making the Typhoon a killer and then they will wait until the Hurricane V8 starts getting churned out and then import that from America so mas to sell GT's at a profit.

VL Commodore: V8 125kw L6 Turbo 150kw

Which is now the cult car? think about it.

Ford have offered a V8 for the last 16 of your 18 or so years. Its taken them 12 of those years to bring out a (standard)V8 that is up to the task. If it wasn't for Ford enthusiasts whinging about second rate V8 performance, perhaps Ford would've kissed the V8 game away for second time.

Oh and by the way, turbos aren't everyones cup of tea. Give me my VL Berlina V8 any day.

[Polyal]

ewww you said VL, thats like getting Daewoo on your hands!

[stevz]

Originally Posted by Polyal

ewww you said VL, thats like getting Daewoo on your hands!

: What a totally silly and pointless comment. Waste of a post.

[Franky]

lol and there are probably 7000 just like it :P

[flappist]

Originally Posted by stevz

: What a totally silly and pointless comment. Waste of a post.

Yes VL is much worse than Daewoo because VL makes you think you are a lot sicker than almost anything........

[sleekism]

lol VL!

Why do so many people buy them?

Why not just buy a Skyline instead?

I have a mate who was blown away by the "power" in my Laser and didn't undastand why his souped up VL Executive was so sluggish...........i think he bought a 3 inch tacho to make up for it.

My girlfriends sister has a bog stock VS Commodore and tries to convince me that her car blew away a brand new XR8 Ute at the lights.

My theory is that the same thing happened to the ute driver as has happened to me that Commodore drivers think they are racing you and you just don't even bother.

I was at the traffic lights turning left at some VN p plater pulled up next to me and starting revving the beejeezuz out of the wheezy V6.

I couldn't give a toss cos i was going to get some dinner as I was starving so when the lights went green I went left and the VN owner shot (probly crawled is more appropriate) off straight.

Probably not the best idea as I have probly created another Whanker but I wasn't risking my liscence for some idiot if it's a VN it at least has to be a V8.

Oi someone start a Crummydore bashing thread!

[Nickxb]

wheels is a baised mag there is no doubting it. Anyone see the COTY edition???

[ClevlndStemer]

Originally Posted by Nickxb

wheels is a baised mag there is no doubting it. Anyone see the COTY edition???

which COTY, 2002 or 2004 or 2006?

[Franky]

Originally Posted by sleekism

lol VL!

Why do so many people buy them?

Why not just buy a Skyline instead?

I have a mate who was blown away by the "power" in my Laser and didn't undastand why his souped up VL Executive was so sluggish...........i think he bought a 3 inch tacho to make up for it.

My girlfriends sister has a bog stock VS Commodore and tries to convince me that her car blew away a brand new XR8 Ute at the lights.

My theory is that the same thing happened to the ute driver as has happened to me that Commodore drivers think they are racing you and you just don't even bother.

I was at the traffic lights turning left at some VN p plater pulled up next to me and starting revving the beejeezuz out of the wheezy V6.

I couldn't give a toss cos i was going to get some dinner as I was starving so when the lights went green I went left and the VN owner shot (probly crawled is more appropriate) off straight.

Probably not the best idea as I have probly created another Whanker but I wasn't risking my liscence for some idiot if it's a VN it at least has to be a V8.

Oi someone start a Crummydore bashing thread!

And this has to do with wheels how?

Anyhow back on topic I always found that Motor was rubbish and that wheels wasn't a bad read but nowadays it's not worth $8 to read about whether a Porsche will outdo a Ferrari. I used to like the Ford vs Holden comparisons but the time frame is all out, nothing Ford have will beat a VE not at least till next year anyway

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by Nickxb

wheels is a baised mag there is no doubting it. Anyone see the COTY edition???

Yeah they are......

BA COTY 2002
Territory COTY 2004

Why did they let the VE Commodore win COTY in 2006 ? It should have been another Ford (Transit Van ?).

Climb a fence.....Get over it !!

[falzoony]

Yeah Im sick of reading both wheels and motor magazine. all it is, is the journos bagging ford. I prefer to read the old wheels from the 60's not in any way bias. and when they do tests they compare things like how far the speedo is out and which car has the best wipers

I bet everyone remembers how much the AU got bagged. Now you read that they are the best second hand car to buy! just shows what the journos really know!

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by sleekism

lol VL!

Why do so many people buy them?

Why not just buy a Skyline instead?

I have a mate who was blown away by the "power" in my Laser and didn't undastand why his souped up VL Executive was so sluggish...........i think he bought a 3 inch tacho to make up for it.!

Believe it or not some people actually do like them, like myself. Which is why I bought one.

[sleekism]

Like the engine in the VL just not everything else attached to it just my opinion.

I'm not one eyed I like Toranas and the old Monaros I just can't stand Commodores or maybe it's half the people who drive them