GM to split from Opel

Sprint XR8 · 28-02-2009, 10:38 AM

GM will keep a stake in Opel, but the German subsidiary will become a separate company.

Berlin, (CNN) -- General Motors' European division announced Friday that its German subsidiary, Opel cars, will become a separate company. GM will keep a stake in the new company.

Opel is asking for a more than $4 billion bailout from the governments of Germany and the other European countries that have Opel plants, GM Europe's CEO Carl-Peter Forster said at a news conference.

"We are in need of capital that we hope to get with the help of the public sector of about 3.3 billion euros," said Forster, who was speaking at Opel's main plant in Ruesselsheim, Germany. "With this aid, we believe that we can lead this company to a very profitable future."

The news was welcomed by the labor organization for Opel's employees, who had staged recent demonstrations demanding that GM's European brands sever their ties with the American parent company -- perhaps with governments taking a stake.

Forster said the company is talking to employee representatives about "how we can prevent redundancies and closing plants."

"No decisions to close plants or cut jobs have been made. We are trying to prevent that," Forster said. "But we do have cut costs substantially, by about $1.2 billion."

He also said that the new Opel company wants GM to remain a shareholder in the new company in order to have access to parts and new technological developments that can only be achieved in large companies.

GM currently sells more than half its vehicles outside of North America, but is facing losses in all of those markets.

Saab, Opel and Vauxhall are all GM brands that employ about 55,000 people across Europe. GM reported a net loss of more than $30 billion for the last year -- including a $9.6 billion net loss in the fourth quarter, a period in which its sales plunged and it needed a federal bailout to avoid filing for bankruptcy.

GM (GM, Fortune 500) also disclosed that it burned through $6.2 billion in cash during the last three months of the year. The company ended the quarter with cash of $14 billion.

If not for the $4 billion federal loan it received on Dec. 31, GM's cash level would have fallen below the $11 billion to $14 billion in cash the company has said it needs to continue operations.
http://money.cnn.com/2009/02/27/news...ion=2009022711

ea90gl · 28-02-2009, 11:08 AM

Jeez the bad news is like a snowball running downhill just keeps getting worse. Very interesting to see what happens to Holden in the coming months hopefully nothing too bad

Sprint XR8 · 28-02-2009, 11:35 AM

GM is decentralizing its global operations prior to bankruptcy. I see Holden being spun out similarly before March 31st.

Bossxr8 · 28-02-2009, 01:02 PM

Ford Europe has been going great guns for the past 5 years or so, making good profits, until the GFC I guess, don't know where they are now, but because of that its no suprise GM are is such a bad state if during the good years they couldn't make money in Europe. Europe has been a cash cow for Ford, so if GM can't make money there then they can't make money anywhere.

Sprint XR8 · 28-02-2009, 04:37 PM

DETROIT (WJRT) -- (02/27/09)--More changes could be on the way to General Motors Corp. Detroit's No. 1 automaker is looking to break ties with its German unit, Opel.
While GM says bankruptcy is a last resort, one analyst believes the automaker is behaving like it's already picked that option.
This may be happening on the other side of the world, but it really is beginning to shed some light in the United States about how deep GM's money troubles run.
Kettering University Prof. Dr. Andy Borchers says while GM has not filed for bankruptcy, it is making changes to its global operations as if it were.
GM's Swedish brand Saab filed for bankruptcy last week after its request for money from the Swedish government was denied.
A similar request was made to the German government. Now it has GM's German unit Opel looking to part ways with GM.
GM is already having major cash issues, and says it needs additional loans from the U.S. government -- about $16 billion to survive.
The automaker is hoping to make it without filing for bankruptcy.
Financial advisor Guy Moxam says the road ahead for GM won't be a smooth one. And if the automaker were to go the bankruptcy route it doesn't it'll be the end of the line.
"They'll go back in and reorganize every aspect of their business," he said.
But some believe it won't be long before GM has to decide which turn it will take.
"At some point they have to get either more cash or they are going to have to do bankruptcy and that point is coming soon," Borchers said.
GM is trying cut costs and make changes to beat a March 31 deadline to show the government it is improving so it will not have to utilize the bankruptcy option.
http://abclocal.go.com/wjrt/story?se...cal&id=6680539

XR6_190 · 28-02-2009, 05:38 PM

Not good, not good at all, I think might be next to get cut loose, if that happens, what will the future hold for Holden, will they still be licensed to sell other GM vehicles? or will the Commodore/ Statesman duo go it alone

Bossxr8 · 28-02-2009, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XR6_190

Not good, not good at all, I think might be next to get cut loose, if that happens, what will the future hold for Holden, will they still be licensed to sell other GM vehicles? or will the Commodore/ Statesman duo go it alone

If GM has disposed of Opel, what hope does Holden have of staying with them, considering they haven't made money in a few years?

vanman_75 · 28-02-2009, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XR6_190

Not good, not good at all, I think might be next to get cut loose, if that happens, what will the future hold for Holden, will they still be licensed to sell other GM vehicles? or will the Commodore/ Statesman duo go it alone

unfortunately the little 1s have been propped up by their parent company for years,also the first to go.
and holden would be very lucky if they were allowed to keep using gm parts,if this did happen.

**TUF_302** · 28-02-2009, 07:19 PM

Things are going to get bad for holden very soon i feel, with all the problems with its parent company i just cant see it missing some sort of fall out!

barbarian · 28-02-2009, 11:01 PM

| 27.02.2009 | 16:00 UTC
Opel to split from General Motors

German car-maker Opel is considering splitting from its struggling American parent company, General Motors. The head of GM Europe, Carl-Peter Forster, said he could imagine Opel becoming at least partly independent as a business unit. However, he added that it was important for Opel to remain a part of GM's European network of subsidiaries. The statements come a day after thousands of auto workers demonstrated at factories of GM subsidiaries in Europe, hoping to save their jobs. Opel reportedly needs at least 3.3 billion euros to survive. Chancellor Angela Merkel's coalition government has asked the company to come up with a viable business plan in return for state aid. GM's Swedish subsidiary, Saab, has already file for bankruptcy. General Motors has said it will cut thousands of jobs at its subsidiaries in Britain, Germany, Spain and Sweden as part of a restructuring program.

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/function/0...-1893-xml-atom

barbarian · 28-02-2009, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Ford Europe has been going great guns for the past 5 years or so, making good profits, until the GFC I guess, don't know where they are now, but because of that its no suprise GM are is such a bad state if during the good years they couldn't make money in Europe. Europe has been a cash cow for Ford, so if GM can't make money there then they can't make money anywhere.

Opel sells plenty of cars in Europe, make no mistake

It is GM that robs them blind

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBB7ct9Rey0

**ebxr8240** · 28-02-2009, 11:09 PM

Maybe Mark will buy Holden ?? Lol...

greenfoam · 01-03-2009, 12:33 AM

Opel make all the good stuff so they will be better off going it alone than being the life support for the dying giant. Hopefully Holden go the same way it will only be good for them in the long run

asusdragon · 01-03-2009, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenfoam

Opel make all the good stuff so they will be better off going it alone than being the life support for the dying giant. Hopefully Holden go the same way it will only be good for them in the long run

however if Holden go it alone what will that do for engine in there commodore range, the V8 is a chev, and isnt there alloytec and import engine from america too??

greenfoam · 01-03-2009, 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asusdragon

however if Holden go it alone what will that do for engine in there commodore range, the V8 is a chev, and isnt there alloytec and import engine from america too??

The alloytec is made in Melbourne at Holdens engine plant they export crap loads of them including the turbo one saab use (used? since the are bankrupt?). I'm sure GM will still sell them the V8 if not bring on a new alloy version of the 304 I say

asusdragon · 01-03-2009, 01:11 AM

ah ok cheers for the info. shows how much i really know of the dark side lol. i knew there old 3.8L (well VN engine anyway) was an import engine and thought the new alloytec were too.

you would hope GM would still sell them the V8's but who knows. alloy version 304 well sounds interesting. On that though bout time Ford bring out a nice light V8 for the falcons............. yeah well we will see

dom_105 · 01-03-2009, 01:36 AM

If GM cut Holden loose, what does that mean for Holden exports? Would they have to compete with GM products?

greenfoam · 01-03-2009, 04:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asusdragon

ah ok cheers for the info. shows how much i really know of the dark side lol. i knew there old 3.8L (well VN engine anyway) was an import engine and thought the new alloytec were too.

you would hope GM would still sell them the V8's but who knows. alloy version 304 well sounds interesting. On that though bout time Ford bring out a nice light V8 for the falcons............. yeah well we will see

Yeah the VN motor was imported and installed just how it was in the FWD buicks, that's why the intake is back to front. The early preproduction VN's were running around with both the RB 30 and the V6 in them. They were hoping to get something with more grunt in the VN before it was released and the V6 only JUST made it in time so they were a bit of a rush job. Proven by the fact that you can drop an RB30 in there and the headers bolt up to the cat back exactly perfectly (The V6's Y pipe was a fudge at the last minute). I think the later motors series 2 VN onwards -- were at least partially assembled here.

That's all nothing to do with anything

but I'm sure it's no problem sourcing a good motor for a good price in the world today

Bossxr8 · 01-03-2009, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barbarian

Opel sells plenty of cars in Europe, make no mistake

It is GM that robs them blind

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBB7ct9Rey0

And GM sells plenty of cars in the US, but thats done them no favours has it. Doesn't matter if you sell hundreds of thousands if you still can't make money.

Bossxr8 · 01-03-2009, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenfoam

Yeah the VN motor was imported and installed just how it was in the FWD buicks, that's why the intake is back to front. The early preproduction VN's were running around with both the RB 30 and the V6 in them. They were hoping to get something with more grunt in the VN before it was released and the V6 only JUST made it in time so they were a bit of a rush job. Proven by the fact that you can drop an RB30 in there and the headers bolt up to the cat back exactly perfectly (The V6's Y pipe was a fudge at the last minute). I think the later motors series 2 VN onwards -- were at least partially assembled here.

That's all nothing to do with anything

but I'm sure it's no problem sourcing a good motor for a good price in the world today

The VN motor was assembled here.

Gobes32 · 01-03-2009, 02:12 PM

It will be an interesting 3 months for sure. And it seems that everyone has too many cars sitting in holding yards except for Ford.

Another interesting point, who would want to buy Holden? They have not been profitable for over three years, their main product is a polluting, fuel guzzling RWD sedan, a segment that is in decline and will be for a while yet. And the small sedan that is going to save their operations is actually a GM design, so if GM sell Holden then you can kiss that goodbye.........

Mind you, if they were purchased by a Chinese or Indian conglomerate, you might find that some cash would be made available to them to upgrade the plant and invest in new models?

Bill M · 01-03-2009, 02:35 PM

If GM spun off Holden you don't think there is a strong possibility of maintaining technical links? GM still stands to make a buck selling engines and other parts. If there was no forthcoming supply from GM in the US then Holden is dead in the water, I cannot see this happening in the short term.
Bill.

XR8putts · 01-03-2009, 03:52 PM

Holden have never been so vulnerable..

I hope I dont have to eat my words at some stage this year, but thank god for Allan Mually. (sp?)

Gobes32 · 01-03-2009, 05:51 PM

I don't know if Holden and GM will still share engineering data, they certainly will not import Commodores to the US. Depends on who the buyer is as to what GM will sell/share with Holden.

mr smith · 01-03-2009, 06:08 PM

Another interesting point, who would want to buy Holden? They have not been profitable for over three years, their main product is a polluting, fuel guzzling RWD sedan, a segment that is in decline and will be for a while yet.

I get to drive most new cars on the market, and while I like the look of the VE it is a very poorly built car, even non car heads at work comment on the poor interior and general cheapness of the build. They are in big trouble.

Mark s · 01-03-2009, 06:15 PM

The US govt is going to have to offer more assistance to GM; I can't see how they can let such a huge company go bust. IMHO I think GM & FoMoCo will survive and Crysler will fall by the wayside. The loss of GM or Ford to America would be huge and would send the economy into a bigger world of crap.

Where does this leave Holden?

I think the US govt will focus on GM USA and the O/S arms will be sold off or will be left to rot. I can’t see GM/US govt throwing more money into Holden and development into new products, when its life is on the line. I would think if GM does survive as does Holden, we will be seeing more Daewoo products and VE facelifts for many years to come.

Same with Ford US, it seems they are on a slighty better footing, but they are not going to throw money into a minor market, when they are in survival mode. I wonder if Ford Australia will be building the Focus in the years to come?

Still the Focus, Festiva, and Mondeo are a much better product than the re-badged Daewoo's.

**Fordman1** · 01-03-2009, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by puts99

Holden have never been so vulnerable..

I hope I dont have to eat my words at some stage this year, but thank god for Allan Mually. (sp?)

Well I think if Holden's Operations go south, so will Ford of Australia Manufacturing , they share quite a few local suppliers and therefore the risk is the supplier base will go bust if the total local volume reduces much more ...........

Time will tell...................

**Fordman1** · 01-03-2009, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark s

Same with Ford US, it seems they are on a slighty better footing, but they are not going to throw money into a minor market, when they are in survival mode.

If Ford Australia is manufacturing products here in 8 years, it will NOT be Falcon or Territory.......

It'll be products based on a global platform(s)....end of story.

Either the C class Focus Platform, and or Mondeo C/D platform including SUV top hats on either or both (including alternative 'global' powertrains)

If the numbers make sense, it'll happen, otherwise "good bye". Toyota will follow if the other two go, make no mistake.

BTW: I think FoA's future is a bit brighter than Holdens ATM.

vztrt · 01-03-2009, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coupex

GM is decentralizing its global operations prior to bankruptcy. I see Holden being spun out similarly before March 31st.

This is where Allen Mullaly was lucky (and I think it was luck) that he sold off the companies that did not have the Ford badge on them as they would have been a huge liability but instead he got a cash flow up that will help them ride the GFC out. GM didn't and as well as losing buckets of cash they will not get anything from the companies as they will just cut ties with them and let them die.

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenfoam

The alloytec is made in Melbourne at Holdens engine plant they export crap loads of them including the turbo one saab use (used? since the are bankrupt?). I'm sure GM will still sell them the V8 if not bring on a new alloy version of the 304 I say

If Holden doesn't share technologies with GM then it'll be goodbye Holden.

Gobes32 · 01-03-2009, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barraxr8

Well I think if Holden's Operations go south, so will Ford of Australia Manufacturing , they share quite a few local suppliers and therefore the risk is the supplier base will go bust if the total local volume reduces much more ...........

Time will tell...................

How many suppliers? And they are all going bust anyway? Unfortunately we will soon be sourcing all of our components from China because all the local suppliers are bankrupt........