should police stop high speed chases

[HLC]

Originally Posted by flappist

Probably only those members whose computers can access google......

im too lazy can you tell me?

[geckoGT]

Am I the only one that sees the irony in the resistance to a satellite tracking/imobilisation device yet the common approval for the use of deadly force that is evident here.

Ask me, the use of deadly force, either throught the use of firearms or another vehicle (many PITT applications in the US end in road trauma) is more of a "police state" or dictatorship than turning the car off. By that I mean a bad guy that has been shot or rammed and killed does not have the ability to explain and defend his actions, the guy that had his car turned off does. Therefore the cops are given the role of Judge, Jury and Executioner.

Imagine, guy has his wife about to drop a baby, panics and speeds to hopsital, police try to stop him, guy panics more and runs. Police then see this as a chase and are authorised to shoot at car, which they do and cause loss of control of the car. Now both occupants are dead as is the unborn child, great result. Would have been better to turn off the car, assess situation and arrange a better option for transport to hospital.

Oh well, apparently shooting is the better option hey guys?

[Wally]

Frustrating init. I'm suprised you would ask the question.

[JC]

3 criminals killed in one accident? Sad as it is that the baby died too, I see this as natural justice; one car thief takes out another, and while at it, a convicted drug dealer too. Maybe the big fella upstairs had had enough of this lot. Just thank god/fate/luck (whatever you believe in) that there were no innocent people involved.

[Spudz27]

Originally Posted by pottery beige

Dont chase them.. Shoot the bastard's..

That should have been what happened here in W.A last week.

As for cops not getting into high speed car chases. I think it is appropriate for them to do so, they are normally chasing a potentially dangerous person to society. By letting them speed off they will ultimately let them escape to possibly murder, rape, rob etc, again.

The public is partially to blame here, I always look left and right when approaching sets of lights, roundabouts etc. You never know what is going to happen and on many occasions doing his has avoided accidents, usually idiots not looking when going through a roundabout. People need to be more aware. How many people ever actually check their mirrors? People have radios up full blast, nothing wrong with that so long as you are checking your mirrors and watching what is going on around (traffic wise). You could also say car manufacturers are to blame for constantly making cars more sound proof.

However at the end of the day it comes back to the idiot in the pursuit happy to gamble with the communities safety. It is just we as the community need to be more aware of our surroundings.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by EDfutura25

That should have been what happened here in W.A last week.

As for cops not getting into high speed car chases. I think it is appropriate for them to do so, they are normally chasing a potentially dangerous person to society. By letting them speed off they will ultimately let them escape to possibly murder, rape, rob etc, again.

The public is partially to blame here, I always look left and right when approaching sets of lights, roundabouts etc. You never know what is going to happen and on many occasions doing his has avoided accidents, usually idiots not looking when going through a roundabout. People need to be more aware. How many people ever actually check their mirrors? People have radios up full blast, nothing wrong with that so long as you are checking your mirrors and watching what is going on around (traffic wise). You could also say car manufacturers are to blame for constantly making cars more sound proof.

However at the end of the day it comes back to the idiot in the pursuit happy to gamble with the communities safety. It is just we as the community need to be more aware of our surroundings.

Very well said, look after your own safety because eveyone else is out to kill you.

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by EDfutura25

The public is partially to blame here, I always look left and right when approaching sets of lights, roundabouts etc. You never know what is going to happen and on many occasions doing his has avoided accidents, usually idiots not looking when going through a roundabout.

Absolutely.

Green light doesn't mean - 'everyone is obeying the road rules, you're free to travel into the intersection, oblivious to everything that's around you'.

However, I probably don't look as far down the road to anticipate being hit at 200+kph though.

[platinumXR]

Originally Posted by JC807

...yet they are using chopper$$$$ for tracking speeding motorists along the Hume HWY (and other places). I couldn't believe it when i saw the signs the other day. I mean, how many speeding motorists would you have to catch to fund the chopper being in the sky?

Fair point, but; they are using a plane not a helicopter and I think all agree it's a bit of a exercise in futility.

I suspect it was supposed to be a deterrent more than an justifiably operational success....other than that I am not sure why they would have dragged it out again.

Whilst we're on the subject of the good ole' US of A, spare a thought for a few LOW SPEED pursuit outcomes:

http://www.policeone.com/suspect-pur...hase-shooting/

[Yellow_Festiva]

Wonder what the outcome of this will be?

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/new...-1225845182044

A 15-YEAR-OLD girl has become the first person in NSW to be charged under Skye's Law - which means jail for convicted criminals who lead police on car chases.

It is the first time the legislation, passed just a few weeks ago, has been used in the state.

The 15-year-old girl was arrested in Dubbo late last night after leading police on a 30-minute chase which stretched over more than 50km.

Tyre deflation devices - or spikes - were used three times during the chase. The car's tyres were finally punctured on the third attempt - but the chase still didn't stop.

It lasted another 5km until the alleged driver and her teenage passengers finally abandoned the car when the tyre came completely away from the rim and made a run for it.

The teenagers were laughing when they were caught by police.

The alleged driver was charged with drive manner dangerous, and a new criminal offence under Skye's Law.

Dubbo Inspector Matt Scott said he was "astonished" at the attitudes of the teenagers involved.

"They clearly had no comprehension of the danger they placed themselves and other members of the community in by their actions," he said.

"When arrested, a number of the occupants of the vehicle were openly laughing, finding amusement at the situation.''

Tough new laws for drivers who try to evade police by leading them on a car chase were passed by NSW Parliament on March 19.

The laws mean jail terms of three years for first offenders and five years for repeat offenders.

The laws were named in honour of 19-month-old Skye Sassine, who was killed after a van being used by two alleged armed robbers smashed into her family's Subaru on the M5 in Ingleburn just before 7pm on December 31.

This is getting to be a joke.. I was sort of questioning the whole "Shoot em" and "Ram em off the road" comments but now I wonder if that would have wiped the smile of the faces of these little pieces of excrement....

Imagine the 'braging rights' these tools have now earned.. "Yeah.. they couldn't catch us.. they tried, but we had them on the run for 50 kays.. should of seen their faces when we were laughing at them!" With all their derro mates giving them hi fives and pats on the back...

Laughing? Thinking it was funny? What the HELL is wrong with people...

These kids don't need lessons on right and wrong, they don't need counselling, they don't needs love and hugs... they need to be belted till they are black and blue...

The cops have more important things to do...

[JC]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

Wonder what the outcome of this will be?

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/new...-1225845182044



This is getting to be a joke.. I was sort of questioning the whole "Shoot em" and "Ram em off the road" comments but now I wonder if that would have wiped the smile of the faces these little pieces of excrement....

Imagine the 'braging rights' these tools have now earned.. "Yeah.. they couldn't catch us.. they tried, but we had them on the run for 50 kays.. should of seen their faces when we were laughing at them!" With all their derro mates giving them hi fives and pats on the back...

Laughing? Thinking it was funny? What the HELL is wrong with people...

These kids don't need lessons on right and wrong, they don't need counselling, they don't needs love and hugs... they need to be belted till they are black and blue...

The cops have more important things to do...

Agreed - what a joke. Well, not really. Some punishment for the passengers would be appropriate too, except if they can prove that they asked the driven to stop, or let them out. Guess who will be next to try? The passengers who think that was great fun, and they will try again because then they can brag that they didn't get caught!

[MAD]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

These kids don't need lessons on right and wrong, they don't need counselling, they don't needs love and hugs... they need to be belted till they are black and blue...

EXACTLY!!! They need to be scared of something, cause they sure arent scared of the cops, or any other authority figures for that matter.

[Wally]

ABC 10 December 2003

DAVID HARDAKER: The sound of a siren screaming through the night invariably heralds some form of trouble, and if it's a police car chase in progress, there's a chance someone is going to be hurt.

According to a study from Queensland's Crime and Misconduct Commission 1 in 10 of those high speed pursuits ends with someone injured or dead, which is more than the number killed or injured by police firearms in Australia.

It's those sort of statistics that are prompting a national policy on policing's most dangerous activity.

Ian Townsend reports from Brisbane.

IAN TOWNSEND: It seems to be on the news all too often – a late-night high speed car chase that ends with someone or several people killed or injured. In fact, on average there's at least one high-speed pursuit a day in Queensland, nearly one in three ends in a crash and 11 people die every year.

Chasing people suspected of breaking the law is obviously the job of police, but the Queensland Crime and Misconduct Commission wants police to restrict how they use their cars.

The Commission's completed one of the most thorough studies of police chases ever done in Australia, looking at research Australia-wide and overseas. Amongst other things, it wants police to stop chasing traffic offenders.

The Commission's Research Director is Dr Paul Mazerolle.

PAUL MAZEROLLE: The numbers from our data shows that roughly 30 per cent of the people are intoxicated and so that really leads to the issue of do we want intoxicated drivers being chased by the police? Perhaps the only thing more dangerous than a drunk driver on a road is a drunk driver being pursued by the police.

IAN TOWNSEND: In fact, most of the people injured or killed in police chases aren't even the people fleeing. Often they're the police themselves.

CMC Chairman Brendan Butler wants Queensland to trial a more restrictive pursuit policy.

BRENDAN BUTLER: One of the things we found in this research is that about 30 per cent of pursuits in the surveyed period over the last five years have resulted in a collision of some sort. One in ten pursuits have resulted in damage to police vehicles.

One of the things we point out is that more people over this five-year period died in Queensland as a result of police pursuits than have died as a result of the use of firearms by police so it's important that we recognise that there's a risk there.

IAN TOWNSEND: Queensland Police Commissioner, Bob Atkinson, says he's been looking at the problem for some time and says that many of the CMC's recommendations are already being considered.

BOB ATKINSON: This is also a national issue, it's not confined to Queensland, and currently Queensland, along with other police jurisdictions in Australia, is looking at the possibility and working towards the possibility of some national common policy in terms of police pursuits.

DAVID HARDAKER: Queensland Police Commissioner Bob Atkinson ending Ian Townsend's rep

[platinumXR]

Originally Posted by MAD

EXACTLY!!! They need to be scared of something, cause they sure arent scared of the cops, or any other authority figures for that matter.

I concur.

[Spudz27]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

Very well said, look after your own safety because eveyone else is out to kill you.

It was how I was taught to drive. I was taught to have a mentality of everyone else on the road is an idiot.

Also driving ambulances helps make you aware. I think people think I am crazy when they beat me through the roundabout even though I have lights and sirens on. The amount of idiots I have had to stop for because they either take no notice or just don't give a toss is amazing. I was behind a mini van one day, could not go around due to amount of traffic coming in opposite direction, there was plenty of room on the side of the road and even though I changed the tone of the siren 4 times once to warn him I am coming (I do not tail gate, I always give ample time for them to realise I am coming) and 3 times whilst being 2 car lengths away, he continued making me do 40kph behind him, I finally got around when the road became 2 lanes. The guy in the back was having a heart attack. I have kind of gone of topic but it just goes to show people either do not care or take no notice.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by EDfutura25

It was how I was taught to drive. I was taught to have a mentality of everyone else on the road is an idiot.

Also driving ambulances helps make you aware. I think people think I am crazy when they beat me through the roundabout even though I have lights and sirens on. The amount of idiots I have had to stop for because they either take no notice or just don't give a toss is amazing. I was behind a mini van one day, could not go around due to amount of traffic coming in opposite direction, there was plenty of room on the side of the road and even though I changed the tone of the siren 4 times once to warn him I am coming (I do not tail gate, I always give ample time for them to realise I am coming) and 3 times whilst being 2 car lengths away, he continued making me do 40kph behind him, I finally got around when the road became 2 lanes. The guy in the back was having a heart attack. I have kind of gone of topic but it just goes to show people either do not care or take no notice.

Yep, treat them all as idiots until proven otherwise.

The sort of thing you talk about happens a number of times each shift up here in Brisbane (god I detest QLD drivers).

[SB076]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

Am I the only one that sees the irony in the resistance to a satellite tracking/imobilisation device yet the common approval for the use of deadly force that is evident here.

Ask me, the use of deadly force, either throught the use of firearms or another vehicle (many PITT applications in the US end in road trauma) is more of a "police state" or dictatorship than turning the car off. By that I mean a bad guy that has been shot or rammed and killed does not have the ability to explain and defend his actions, the guy that had his car turned off does. Therefore the cops are given the role of Judge, Jury and Executioner.

Imagine, guy has his wife about to drop a baby, panics and speeds to hopsital, police try to stop him, guy panics more and runs. Police then see this as a chase and are authorised to shoot at car, which they do and cause loss of control of the car. Now both occupants are dead as is the unborn child, great result. Would have been better to turn off the car, assess situation and arrange a better option for transport to hospital.

Oh well, apparently shooting is the better option hey guys?

Valid point, however in this instance the thread is about someone that ran from the police and this resulted in deaths which I am sure most would be keen to avoid. I am not aware of any instances where someone has run from the police because there wife was about to drop and caused a fatal accident (feel free to correct me) My wife recently gave birth and there is no way I would put her at risk (or the baby) by running from the police.

In looking at it from the victims view point (not that I can and sincerly hope that no one else has too) You would like to think that anything that could have been done to prevent the deaths of innocent people would be done. As much as shooting is an extreme and I presume many suggested it tongue in check. If it prevented this accident I am for it. As for your suggesting regarding imbolisation sure give it a go.

Wally I take it you are not a fan of the Darwin Awards?

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by SB076

Valid point, however in this instance the thread is about someone that ran from the police and this resulted in deaths which I am sure most would be keen to avoid. I am not aware of any instances where someone has run from the police because there wife was about to drop and caused a fatal accident (feel free to correct me) My wife recently gave birth and there is no way I would put her at risk (or the baby) by running from the police.

In looking at it from the victims view point (not that I can and sincerly hope that no one else has too) You would like to think that anything that could have been done to prevent the deaths of innocent people would be done. As much as shooting is an extreme and I presume many suggested it tongue in check. If it prevented this accident I am for it. As for your suggesting regarding imbolisation sure give it a go.

Wally I take it you are not a fan of the Darwin Awards?

I was just presenting one of many scenarios where such drastic actions may cause the deaths of innocent people without the opportunity to defend there actions.

I have been in circumstances where we have had to chase motorists with a medical emergency on board. People do strange and unpredictable things when under extreme stress, that I see often. Just challenging thinking here.

I agree that most suggestions of shooting out tyres etc were tongue in cheek, but at least some are not.

Added to that, I would like to see anyone provide concrete evidence that cops would be able to 100% guarantee hits on a moving target, from a moving car at speed over rough roads from a range of 30-50 with a glock. I would suggest not a hope, in fact rounds could end up anywhere. If this was the action, I would say let the bad guy go, it would be safer for everyone.

[GrimmReaper09]

This is a catch 22 situation.

If you stop high speed chases people will think "well all I have to do is drive fast and I can get away clean" so crime numbers will rocket

If you continue high speed chases then the crime numbers will not alter but there is still the chance of accidents.

: It's not the cops who cause the accidents it's the idiots that drive at ridiculous speeds to get away and are either too focused on watching the cops behind them and not looking in front, or they are just simply going too fast thru intersections not caring who gets hurt.

Most people do not look very thoroughly at an intersection and are too involved in their own world and not really taking notice of their surroundings. They pull up at an intersection.....take a quick glance and move on thru when they should be taking a really good look at their surroundings, taking a sec to see how quick those vehicles are going and how long they'll take to reach the intersection and whether they can move thru safely before those vehicles get there.

I'm not talking about spending ages at every intersection. All this can be done in a few seconds. If you have a green light, STILL look at ur surroundings before continueing thru. Most intersections are open enough to be able to see a good 3 to 4 houses down the cross streets. There will be corners and intersections that u just can't see and accident's will happen tho.

IMO it's the majority of drivers that need to pay more attention to their driving....not the cops.

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

I was just presenting one of many scenarios where such drastic actions may cause the deaths of innocent people without the opportunity to defend there actions.

I have been in circumstances where we have had to chase motorists with a medical emergency on board. People do strange and unpredictable things when under extreme stress, that I see often. Just challenging thinking here.

I agree that most suggestions of shooting out tyres etc were tongue in cheek, but at least some are not.

Added to that, I would like to see anyone provide concrete evidence that cops would be able to 100% guarantee hits on a moving target, from a moving car at speed over rough roads from a range of 30-50 with a glock. I would suggest not a hope, in fact rounds could end up anywhere. If this was the action, I would say let the bad guy go, it would be safer for everyone.

My mate is a pursuit driver, has been for many years. The "Pit" manouvre should be mandated, and pursuit vehicles should be equipped with steel bars, not plastic bumpers, to allow this manouvre to be carried out safely.

Once an offender starts a pursuit, 30 seconds from the commencement of the pursuit the offender is responsible for everything that happens there on after, be it they colliding with a car causing an accident/fatality, or the pursuit vehicle colliding with a vehicle causing an accident/fatality.

If some large type A-Hole broke into someone's house, bashed the occupants senseless and took the keys for the car for a joy ride or what ever, I'd want the baddies stopped at any cost. You would too if it was your place and family that was broken into and bashed.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

I was just presenting one of many scenarios where such drastic actions may cause the deaths of innocent people without the opportunity to defend there actions.

I have been in circumstances where we have had to chase motorists with a medical emergency on board. People do strange and unpredictable things when under extreme stress, that I see often. Just challenging thinking here.

I agree that most suggestions of shooting out tyres etc were tongue in cheek, but at least some are not.

Added to that, I would like to see anyone provide concrete evidence that cops would be able to 100% guarantee hits on a moving target, from a moving car at speed over rough roads from a range of 30-50 with a glock. I would suggest not a hope, in fact rounds could end up anywhere. If this was the action, I would say let the bad guy go, it would be safer for everyone.

Or in Victoria, with their crappy .38 S&W Revolver lol.

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by GT Falcon

My mate is a pursuit driver, has been for many years. The "Pit" manouvre should be mandated, and pursuit vehicles should be equipped with steel bars, not plastic bumpers, to allow this manouvre to be carried out safely.

Once an offender starts a pursuit, 30 seconds from the commencement of the pursuit the offender is responsible for everything that happens there on after, be it they colliding with a car causing an accident/fatality, or the pursuit vehicle colliding with a vehicle causing an accident/fatality.

If some large type A-Hole broke into someone's house, bashed the occupants senseless and took the keys for the car for a joy ride or what ever, I'd want the baddies stopped at any cost. You would too if it was your place and family that was broken into and bashed.

Could you just clarify the above, that is "at any cost" including the deaths of innocent people, that is what you mean am i right....?

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by DJR-351

Could you just clarify the above, that is "at any cost" including the deaths of innocent people, that is what you mean am i right....?

Yes, that's right. Once the 'baddie' elects to evade the police any subsequent incident that occurs after 30 seconds is the responsiblity of the crim.

Let me put it this way, if you discovered your wife, girlfriend/boyfriend or children had been stabbed or bashed in order for some scumbag to steal your car keys while you were out, would you want the police to pursue the criminal, or let them go for fear of an incident occuring?

I'd want them stopped.

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by GT Falcon

Yes, that's right. Once the 'baddie' elects to evade the police any subsequent incident that occurs after 30 seconds is the responsiblity of the crim.

Let me put it this way, if you discovered your wife, girlfriend/boyfriend or children had been stabbed or bashed in order for some scumbag to steal your car keys while you were out, would you want the police to pursue the criminal, or let them go for fear of an incident occuring?

I'd want them stopped.

Of course I would want them caught, but NOT at the expense of innocent lives.....

If the police back of because of the danger to themselves and others, I can live with that.....

Seriously mate, I am surprised at your willingness to increase the body count of innocents to satisfy your need for revenge.....

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by DJR-351

Of course I would want them caught, but NOT at the expense of innocent lives.....

If the police back of because of the danger to themselves and others, I can live with that.....

Seriously mate, I am surprised at your willingness to increase the body count of innocents to satisfy your need for revenge.....

I believe if the police had the power or authority to execute the pit manouvre on a stolen car we would likely not need to have this discussion, don't you think?

I'm not for advocating 'catch them at any cost', but the restraint they are put on illustrates the danger the public is exposed to. Take the incident the other week where a fugitive stole 3 cars in Perth in an attempt to evade police; he knows damn well the police aren't legally allowed to ran the car to stop him. Thus, he continues on like a madman putting everyone in danger, which could well lead to a situation you describe.

[BHDOGS]

Bah there's to many cowards on this forums stop them at any cost simple nuff said

[MO]

Originally Posted by BHDOGS

Bah there's to many cowards on this forums stop them at any cost simple nuff said

And the ratio of cowards to keyboard warriors is? You have much to learn young'un.

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by BHDOGS

Bah there's to many cowards on this forums stop them at any cost simple nuff said

After that, i'm done here.....

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by BHDOGS

Bah there's to many cowards on this forums stop them at any cost simple nuff said

Such a compelling argument full of thought and information.

[BHDOGS]

Rather then wasting your time by writing out my many thoughts and opinions i decided not to bother as you dont really care and it wont change your mind so i wrote what i think simply and effectively and if ya dont like it go do a runner you'll get away now ;)

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by DJR-351

After that, i'm done here.....

Me too!!!! :



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