Sydney motor show f****>>Up

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by Falchoon

Seems like a fair enough question to me especially when n/a XR6 makes up over 20% of all (BA) Falcon sales. Maybe Ford would actually sell some XR8s if they were more affordable to run.

hmm..it would be avery silly move. It would cost big bucks to re-engineer the 4v to suit a gas application, and how many would you sell?

Prove me if I am wrong, but when someone buys an XR8, fuel economy isn't exactly a piority; its a bonus.

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by Polyal

hmm..it would be avery silly move. It would cost big bucks to re-engineer the 4v to suit a gas application, and how many would you sell?

Prove me if I am wrong, but when someone buys an XR8, fuel economy isn't exactly a piority; its a bonus.

agreed.....

[wulos]

I'm quite sure that Black XR6 will correct me if I'm wrong in saying what I am about to say.
Both he, and myself were rather disappointed in Fords general approach as a whole towards the whole motorshow experience. It would appear to me as if Ford are handling the whole motorshow deal, and MMS, as a missed opportunity.
These shows provide a frontline opportunity for ALL car companies to let their hair down & allow people from a wide background the opportunity to see exciting products, in the form of current and concept vehicles up close & personal, in a lowstress environment. Merchandising & meet/greet personalities tied in with Ford is an important part of this process.
This is also an opportunity for the manufacturers to take some measure of pride in the form of a pat on the back from the enthusiasts out there.
Ford could do a whole heap worse then to take a leaf out of FPV's book in their recipe for success in the running of the FPV Open Days.
When was the last time that a completely over the top Australian concieved concept vehicle(Maloominator, Galaxy540) saw the light of day at one of the mainstream shows. These vehicles serve to excite a younger generation(though not JUST the younger generation - also the young at heart) & look towards becoming a fordfan in the future.
Or how bout wheeling out some of the historical vehicles in the ford collection, along with a few of the famous ford names that make ford so recognisable(yes I know they have done this in the past with the drivers).
It would instead appear that Ford look at it instead as a chance to put together a display that is not entirely unlike what one would see walking into a Ford dealership anywhere around the country.
If you believe the above to be totally inaccurate - Pull the blinkers & take a look at how the other manufacturers approach the shows.

[Polyal]

yeah thats a fair point wulos, and I agree that the ford stands for the past few years has been pretty poor, and you can thank the AU for that (which was fords fault anyway0.

But unfortunatley you can only do what you can with so much money. maybe ford should look at beefing up the motorshows instead of some sponsership here and there; I dont know.

but on the flip side, why get people excited abotu something they will never be able to buy, not even a filtering down of components?

but no doubt that holden concept gave them alot of exposure, which is what it is all about i guess.

[Black XR6]

In fact, one of the best ford displays was the shannons auction on the way in and out of the show. With Geoghans mustang.

[xa bird]

Originally Posted by jonbays

well i went to see the new BF at the Sydney motor show and asked for some info. was given a poster and I asked if they could send me a brochure on the XR6T.

Well today i get a BA MKII brochure in the mail.

Great work ford!!!

Holden made me que for the Monaro brochure but i got one.

holden had a show stand with a concept car and stole the show.

pity eh.

Least you got one I requested a BA gt one 8weeks ago still waiting.

[wulos]

Originally Posted by Polyal

yeah thats a fair point wulos, and I agree that the ford stands for the past few years has been pretty poor, and you can thank the AU for that (which was fords fault anyway0.

But unfortunatley you can only do what you can with so much money. maybe ford should look at beefing up the motorshows instead of some sponsership here and there; I dont know.

but on the flip side, why get people excited abotu something they will never be able to buy, not even a filtering down of components?

but no doubt that holden concept gave them alot of exposure, which is what it is all about i guess.

The money side is not always the sticking point. Look at what a few of the FPV guys did with a fairlane & a little spare time for the 2004 FPV day. That was a pure unadulterated show of passion in the ford brand if ever there was one. Why not show the public more of this sort of thing, & give the ford workers there something to smile about for a change. How about the EAGT. Rather then sending these cars to the crusher, why not show that the spirit is still alive & well inside the company, in addition to the sterile & at times uninspired offerings on show.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Falchoon

Seems like a fair enough question to me especially when n/a XR6 makes up over 20% of all (BA) Falcon sales. Maybe Ford would actually sell some XR8s if they were more affordable to run.

In the cars guide last Friday there was an article about Ford thinking of optioning the LPG engine in XR6 and Fairmont, so it may happen.

I think an LPG will do nothing but damage the image of what an XR is.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by RATT

I think an LPG will do nothing but damage the image of what an XR is.

If the execute it as cheaply as the E-Gas is, probably. If they make XRs with injected gas or at least the GRA type system, maybe not.

I don't see what's so bad about offering it on the XR6 N/A. Its just an XT with a bodykit... already shares the rest of the under-the-skin stuff, why not that engine too?

[Black XR6]

Originally Posted by Polyal

yeah thats a fair point wulos, and I agree that the ford stands for the past few years has been pretty poor, and you can thank the AU for that (which was fords fault anyway0.

But unfortunatley you can only do what you can with so much money. maybe ford should look at beefing up the motorshows instead of some sponsership here and there; I dont know.

but on the flip side, why get people excited abotu something they will never be able to buy, not even a filtering down of components?

but no doubt that holden concept gave them alot of exposure, which is what it is all about i guess.

Sorry to be rude here, but some of the stuff from your keyboard in this thread is just garbage. Why do we have the AU to thank for fords poor shows over the last few years? Then you go on to blame money. Money of all things should not be a factor for Ford. It dosnt cost much at all to have something special there that is different from their dealership stuff. Something the public can not buy but would love to look at. It is a show after all.

Why get people excited about something they will never own? Because it gets them excited. The excitement is the point. It gets the young fellas talking and these experiences will not be forgotten. It rouses interest in the brand. From your comments in this thread it appears to me you have a very similar ethic to ford themselves where it comes to their PR and marketing and we all know that aint working. As I have said in an earlier post, Ford could learn a great deal from Holden especially from their marketing and PR. Holden havent had it all over Ford for so many years by accident.
:

[Yaw]

Originally Posted by RATT

I think an LPG will do nothing but damage the image of what an XR is.

You may be right, but I could think of a worse scenario damaging the image of an XR....consider this


Not an XR6/LPG, XR6T/LPG or XR8/LPG

XR HYBRID

[WASP]

IMO the only way a 'performance oriented' LPG model would be sucessful in the market place is if Ford managed to change buyer perception that these cars would actually deliver better performance in terms of power and acceleration than the petrol models. From a marketing point of view changing an existing buyer perception is expensive and a high risk exercise, although rewarding if you're the first to achieve it. Even as a LPG model, economy would still be seen as a bonus rather than priority as Polyal suggusted. The brand XR identifies with performance that even in LPG form, should not ever change.

[HenryFord]

I worked the fpv stand this year, gotta tell you i would much rather not have to go.
All people want to do is talk crap. i think i met 5 different people who owned "the fastest gt in australia" all the show is for is showing the car to the world. go and look.
enjoy . dont bag the people who do this for a living and will bust a gut to get your new car ready with every thing you want on time and with a smile. the are more idiot people out there buying cars than idiot salespeople.

[XA Coupsta]

^ is the exact poor attitude that people are talking about receiving at the show.

Geez Id go close to giving up a testicle to get a good job with Ford - and you treat it with disdain because people talk crap? People who buy your product and ultimately keep you in a job? Well done.

[2IC]

From a PR perspective this type of thing shouldn't really happen... If the people on the stands are not fully prepared on the details, all that is needed is a clip-board and pen. When people ask a question that isn't known:
1. Smile, Engage them in conversation... "Gee, you seem to know a lot more than your average Joe, how long have you been into Fords??"
2. Take down their details and what interests them (body styling, internals, entertainment etc...)
3. Show them around the cars so they can see for themselves what they want to know.
4. After the show has finished compile all the names (instant database for future mailings and marketing) and get the appropriate details out.

It's simply a case of showing interest in your clients (and despite it being a car 'show' everyone there should be treated as a perspective buyer, now or in the future)

PS.. RATT and Zetec I'm sure you guys know what you're doing so this in no way applies to you...

Going red and not answering shouldn't be an option.... "Sorry mate, I don't have that kind of info at the moment, but I'll get on the phone and find out, can you come back in say 1/2 a hour??" is all that's needed. This kind of thing doesn't cost anything but when that person leaves the show they remember that the guy at the Ford stand was really helpful and nice and did all he could to assist you.

[SSBUB]

Originally Posted by 2IC

From a PR perspective this type of thing shouldn't really happen... If the people on the stands are not fully prepared on the details, all that is needed is a clip-board and pen. When people ask a question that isn't known:
1. Smile, Engage them in conversation... "Gee, you seem to know a lot more than your average Joe, how long have you been into Fords??"
2. Take down their details and what interests them (body styling, internals, entertainment etc...)
3. Show them around the cars so they can see for themselves what they want to know.
4. After the show has finished compile all the names (instant database for future mailings and marketing) and get the appropriate details out.

It's simply a case of showing interest in your clients (and despite it being a car 'show' everyone there should be treated as a perspective buyer, now or in the future)

PS.. RATT and Zetec I'm sure you guys know what you're doing so this in no way applies to you...

Going red and not answering shouldn't be an option.... "Sorry mate, I don't have that kind of info at the moment, but I'll get on the phone and find out, can you come back in say 1/2 a hour??" is all that's needed. This kind of thing doesn't cost anything but when that person leaves the show they remember that the guy at the Ford stand was really helpful and nice and did all he could to assist you.

good post :

[fast66]

Originally Posted by Des

Every motor show I've been to (and that's quite a few) you will always have some staff who have no(or little) idea what their talking about, (a certain Japanese Oz based manufacturer staffs their stand with models who need a seeing eye dog to find their own @rse!). I've found the Ford stand to generally be better than most. The only problem occurs when there has been a model released at the show and you ask pointed questions about specific performance and such outside of what the average Joe would ask.
Holden usually have no problem answering these questions as their cars are basically unchanged since the VT series one (which is based on the VN). So performance and such is basically unchanged.

Don't sprout your ignorance about Holden products, the Commodore has developed at the same rate as the Falcon. I challenge you to tell me of one component of a VT which is the same as a VZ. (then do the same between AU and BF). And as for unchanged performance, wasn't there up upgrade from the Holden 5.0 to the LS1???
99% of us are here because we prefere the blue oval, but to say crap like that makes the rest of the Ford fans here look as ignorant as you.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by Black XR6

Sorry to be rude here, but some of the stuff from your keyboard in this thread is just garbage. Why do we have the AU to thank for fords poor shows over the last few years? Then you go on to blame money. Money of all things should not be a factor for Ford. It dosnt cost much at all to have something special there that is different from their dealership stuff. Something the public can not buy but would love to look at. It is a show after all.

Why get people excited about something they will never own? Because it gets them excited. The excitement is the point. It gets the young fellas talking and these experiences will not be forgotten. It rouses interest in the brand. From your comments in this thread it appears to me you have a very similar ethic to ford themselves where it comes to their PR and marketing and we all know that aint working. As I have said in an earlier post, Ford could learn a great deal from Holden especially from their marketing and PR. Holden havent had it all over Ford for so many years by accident.
:

Bah..me talking garbage!

You obviously dont understand how much it costs to make a concept car, yes some can be done on the cheap; but if ford did that then you would just sook about them doing a half **** attempt!

Your ignorance is also obvious as to the financial situation of Ford during the AU days, which believe it or not is only just recovering even though BA has been somewhat of a success. How is money not factor when making a concept car? It doesn't come cheaply! (although holden apparently did a few good deals with their concept).

You have no idea about what ethic I have, unlike you though I realise that only so much can be done with what they have. You seem to think that everything is fine and dandy and they should splash money around at a concpet car that will be on display for one show.

Originally Posted by Black XR6

It gets the young fellas talking and these experiences will not be forgotten.

Please, when was the last time you heard a "young" fella, or anyone for that matter, talking about concept cars of the past few years. :ticking:

I sympathise that ford should be doing more, but there are reasons for it. Like I said before, maybe ford should focus more on motorshows then supporting some crappy sport.

If you need proof that ford know how to do concepts then look no further than the e-series cars. Off the top of my head there was th Sandfire, Terra Ute, Predator, Sequential XR8. All cool cars that created excitment, but only happened when Ford was ontop if sales, and even then marketing were actually good. So your comment about ford not needing money for concepts is crazy. :

[fordfan351]

Originally Posted by 2IC

From a PR perspective this type of thing shouldn't really happen... If the people on the stands are not fully prepared on the details, all that is needed is a clip-board and pen. When people ask a question that isn't known:
1. Smile, Engage them in conversation... "Gee, you seem to know a lot more than your average Joe, how long have you been into Fords??"
2. Take down their details and what interests them (body styling, internals, entertainment etc...)
3. Show them around the cars so they can see for themselves what they want to know.
4. After the show has finished compile all the names (instant database for future mailings and marketing) and get the appropriate details out.

It's simply a case of showing interest in your clients (and despite it being a car 'show' everyone there should be treated as a perspective buyer, now or in the future)

PS.. RATT and Zetec I'm sure you guys know what you're doing so this in no way applies to you...

Going red and not answering shouldn't be an option.... "Sorry mate, I don't have that kind of info at the moment, but I'll get on the phone and find out, can you come back in say 1/2 a hour??" is all that's needed. This kind of thing doesn't cost anything but when that person leaves the show they remember that the guy at the Ford stand was really helpful and nice and did all he could to assist you.

Spot on, service is service no matter what product your selling, if you went to the local fish and chip shop and ordered a burger with the lot and the bloke behind the counter couldn't tell you whether it came with pineapple or not you sure as hell wouldn't ever get food from that shop again.

These car shows are the exact same principle and it's time Ford woke up to themselves about this matter. By virtue of the fact you have payed to enter, I don't think it is unreasonable to expect the staff manning the stands to have some level of knowledge about the product they are selling.

This culture of disinterest appears to be rife within Ford Australia and they appear to be taking no steps to correct it. When you go to a Holden dealership you have buoyant, friendly, generally excited staff who are eager to spend time with you and in most cases own the top selling product ie a Commie so can talk to you about it's performance in a more detailed manner.

When you go to a Ford dealership you just don't get that " I'm excited about the product im selling" feeling from the staff, they appear disinterested or lack knowledge regarding product specifics.

I see this culture of dis-interest as the biggest factor holding back it's growth within the younger generation of buyers in Australia. We need Ford enthusiasts at the dealerships so that when "the sheep" come through the gate they meet an excited salesman who has a GENUINE interest in Ford vehicles who will bend over backwards to get them in a Ford that very day.

I applied at a Ford dealership a couple of years ago as a sales person, I had only very little sales experiance but I wrote up a massive essay about why they should consider me, about the Ford clubs i was involved with, about the techincal knowledge regarding Fords i had etc etc in the interview I said I wanted to do a job I loved instead of getting outta bed to go to work and the guy who was hiring laughed at me because he thought I was joking. I went to massive lenghts to prove that I was a genuine Ford enthusiast who wanted to tell other people aboout how good the product was....and I never even got a call back, when I rang them and asked what criteria I had failed to address they said " we are not at liberty to discuss with you why you where not hired for the position"....I mean for crying out loud.

Sorry for getting abit off topic, but this all ties into the same issue within Ford I beleive, it boils my blood to be honest because there are so many genuine enthusiats out there who would give anything to work for Ford and somehow Ford chooses these boring, unmotivated, dis-interested people to represent it's products.

Crying shame

[Black XR6]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Bah..me talking garbage!

You obviously dont understand how much it costs to make a concept car, yes some can be done on the cheap; but if ford did that then you would just sook about them doing a half **** attempt!

Your ignorance is also obvious as to the financial situation of Ford during the AU days, which believe it or not is only just recovering even though BA has been somewhat of a success. How is money not factor when making a concept car? It doesn't come cheaply! (although holden apparently did a few good deals with their concept).

You have no idea about what ethic I have, unlike you though I realise that only so much can be done with what they have. You seem to think that everything is fine and dandy and they should splash money around at a concpet car that will be on display for one show.


Please, when was the last time you heard a "young" fella, or anyone for that matter, talking about concept cars of the past few years. :ticking:

I sympathise that ford should be doing more, but there are reasons for it. Like I said before, maybe ford should focus more on motorshows then supporting some crappy sport.

If you need proof that ford know how to do concepts then look no further than the e-series cars. Off the top of my head there was th Sandfire, Terra Ute, Predator, Sequential XR8. All cool cars that created excitment, but only happened when Ford was ontop if sales, and even then marketing were actually good. So your comment about ford not needing money for concepts is crazy. :

I did not say Ford should go out and splash millions or hundreds of thousands to make a prototype car to display. I DID say it dosnt cost much to have something "special" there that is different from what can be seen at a dealership. How hard would it be for ford to ship something we never see from the states? How hard would it be to have some EX-competition car of some sort at the show to put on display. How hard would it be really? Not hard at all. Think about the global reach of Ford. Ford US have made concept cars over the past years, how hard would it be to have one of those shipped here for the show circuit for a season?

Fords AU era, has absolutely nothing to do with how much effort they put into motor shows back then or now. As I said, Im not demanding Ford spend their hard earned on concept cars each year although once in a while it might be nice. You mention the E series days, well forgive me but that dont count for much these days. The young generation would regard the E series as quite an old model now and most probably hadnt even seen the E series days at shows. Holden have had the Torana concept and the Effijy (sp) at recent shows. Whats Ford had to compete?

Your right Ford do need to do alot more. And it dosnt have to cost the earth. Your last statement suggests Ford has given up on bothering to bring anything new and exciting because they are not winning the sales war. If Ford do have that attitude we will be lucky if they are still around in 10-20 years.

[Polyal]

problem is that they have used up most of the concpets...lol

GT40 - done already
Focus convertible - same
Vios (I think thats what its called) - should of been here, but had other commitments I think.
The Shelby AC Cobra concept - cant remember its real name, again I dont know what is happening with that but that could of been used.

What we should do is bombard fords marketing department, its seems everyone else knows what to do other than them.

[Des]

Originally Posted by fast66

Don't sprout your ignorance about Holden products, the Commodore has developed at the same rate as the Falcon. I challenge you to tell me of one component of a VT which is the same as a VZ. (then do the same between AU and BF). And as for unchanged performance, wasn't there up upgrade from the Holden 5.0 to the LS1???
99% of us are here because we prefere the blue oval, but to say crap like that makes the rest of the Ford fans here look as ignorant as you.

Hows this just off the top of my head:

1. Chasis hard points.
2. Basic suspension (though they did add two "links" and dropped the rigid axle, then re-engineered to add it back for some utes)
3. Door openings (especially rear)
4. Most, if not all of the floor pan.
5. Manual Gearbox
6. 4 speed auto (though they have added a heavy duty version)
7. Basic dash structure

Most, if not all of the above has been changed on the Falcon over the same period (needed to be as well). To the point that Holden are now behind the eightball. The VE will be the first all new Commodore since the VN, therefore, today's Commodore still has parts of the VN underneath.
My post stands.

[MethodX]

Overdoing it a bit much there arent u?
Both companies use parts from previous models.

The VT is a distant relative of the 95 Opel Omega, THe VN a relative of the 88 Opel Omega

Originally Posted by fordfan351

This culture of disinterest appears to be rife within Ford Australia and they appear to be taking no steps to correct it. When you go to a Holden dealership you have buoyant, friendly, generally excited staff who are eager to spend time with you and in most cases own the top selling product ie a Commie so can talk to you about it's performance in a more detailed manner.

It doesn't matter where you go, everyones a human being and you will get similar attitudes. I'll fill you in on a secret, I worked for a major Sydney Holden dealer when the VT was released. The attitude was one of arrogance and ignorance. So it's no greener on the red side.

Originally Posted by 2IC

1. Smile, Engage them in conversation... "Gee, you seem to know a lot more than your average Joe, how long have you been into Fords??"
2. Take down their details and what interests them (body styling, internals, entertainment etc...)
3. Show them around the cars so they can see for themselves what they want to know.
4. After the show has finished compile all the names (instant database for future mailings and marketing) and get the appropriate details out.

Fair comment. But when there are people everywhere you can't focus on one person only. Not everyone wants to buy a car either, they just want to have a look just like I did when I went to the Toyota stand to look at the Kluger. In fact you'd be damn lucky if there was a buyer who was close to buying.

[Falchoon]

Getting back to the LPG thing for XRs maybe an XR8 wouldn't sell enough numbers to justify it. Dunno really what engineering needs to go into it, should be easy enough to raise the compression slightly and maybe fit GT rods (that's if they are any better than XR8 ones...). Pretty much most of the other hardware should already be available either from Ford spare parts catalogue or aftermarket mobs such as Impco (rebadge as Ford).

I'm not sure about the argument some people have put forward about LPG on a XR6 destroying the performance image. Are you forgetting that it is exactly the same motor and gearbox as base model XT? They both have 190kw (BF), in fact the XT should kick the XRs ar$e down the drag strip due to it's lighter weigh because it doesn't have as many gizmos.

A lot of fleet buyers purchase XR6s because the are virtually the same price as Futura and have very similar equipment levels but have the "sporty" look but without the "sporty" fuel bill. Imagine an XR that was even cheaper to run, would be an even bigger seller for sure. Even a LPG XR6T might be worth looking at but I fear that this would be prohibitively expensive to engineer.

[Black XR6]

I agree it seems an obvious step to offer the XR6 in LPG. But not the 8 or the turbo. Why not, it dosnt really cost em anything as its the same engine in the XT and it gives the customer base more choice which is always a good thing.

[Steffo]

IF Ford were to release a LPG XR6 Turbo and XR8, they would need to perform equally to the petrol variants. With the current setup they use E-Gas, there's little change of that ever happening.

The Impco/GRA style setup would make it far more attainable... and if Ford were to take a gamble and make EFI LPG stuff, it could very well pay off... imagine having two choices of XR8, one you fill for 135cpl, the other for 50cpl, and they perform the same.... would make for a very interesting situation.

Someone will have to bring out an LPG Injected car eventually, and Ford's been leading the market in regards to gas, I think they should keep at it. Toyota's even made a LPG/Electric hybrid Prius... I wonder how cheap to fuel that thing is :

[RED_EL_XR8]

To be taken as directed when gas breaks out in all the wrong places!

[Polyal]

bwhaha red I agree

XR8 + GAS = :togo: : : :ymca: :jab: :

damn it I couldn't find the ghey symbol