New car sales

[sbutler]

New car sales are up by 13.5% this year yet Ford & Holden are going broke!!WTF! The sales are made up of cheapo inports. Simple fix for the very sick Australian car makers.
STOP IMPORTS

[Polyal]

In a globalised world thats never going to happen.

What Ford AU need to do is wake up, like atleast 5 years ago, and if they seriously wanted to make a go of the Falcon and make it competitive it should have been tied in with some other global platform...long ago. Sharing as many components as possible...attempting to reduce the cost, increase the content etc.

I dont blame the marketplace at all, Ford AU and GMH (less the latter) have always been slow to react but they are just a product of there position in the world and within their respective companies.

[prydey]

mazda 3 topped the charts here, but globally mazda are struggling financially. don't be fooled by sales figures. some chase volume over profits.

[Djrystofer]

So, since the competition is beating the locally made stuff, we have to put an end to the competition?

Logical thinking, for sure

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by sbutler

New car sales are up by 13.5% this year yet Ford & Holden are going broke!!WTF! The sales are made up of cheapo inports. Simple fix for the very sick Australian car makers.
STOP IMPORTS

Cheapo imports? Such as? Or is this just another unsubstantiated generalisation?

From what I have seen the Focus is selling in bucket loads, doing really well like it deserves to, not really what i call a cheapo import.

The Ranger is selling well too, cheapo import?

Oh hang on this is about the Mazda 3, that uses the Focus platform. Is this the "cheapo" import, another swipe at it?

Camry and Aurion seem to be selling ok, they're local, kind of (assembled here).

Would it not be far more prudent to look at the reasons WHY the Falcon and Commodore are not selling like they used to and mitigate those instead of just banning imports?
Why is it all of sudden the Falcodore is out of favor with the buying public?
is it the car? Is it the fact only a sedan is available? Are the others offering better value? or is it simply people don't need a car like that?
I know I'd never be looking at another local car. My parents after 30 years of Falcon buying have moved to VW and to a Focus ST.

[EB#]

Originally Posted by sbutler

.....Simple fix for the very sick Australian car makers.
STOP IMPORTS

Unfortunately this sort of tack reduces impetus for design development and
improvements of a local product. In an extreme case, consider the East German
Trabant of 1957 to 1990.

.....It was in production without any significant changes for nearly 30 years with
3,096,099 Trabants produced in total.[3] In 2008, Time magazine rated the
Trabant as one of the 50 worst cars ever made.[4]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trabant

[EB#]

Originally Posted by Wretched

....Would it not be far more prudent to look at the reasons WHY the Falcon and
Commodore are not selling like they used to and mitigate those instead of just banning imports?

I tend to agree that the Ford marketing program is not to blame for the decline
of Falcon sales. Commodore has still been advertised over the past few years and it's
sales are taking a nose dive too.

People are not buying the large sedans because they simply don't want to !
How can a company market a product that the majority don't want ? A trend toward
SUV cars, sport dual-cab utes and the small (now pretty big actually!) sedans
has obviously been taking place over the years. The range of vehicles available
in these categories is now huge, as opposed to 10 years ago, and it has
taken its bite from the large sedan category.

The local players just need to adapt and diversify to stay in the game.
My guess is that they are frantically working out out to do this right now,
as they have unfortunately been caught napping ! Will this include on-going
local design/manufacture or assembly.... Who knows ?

[turbodewd]

Originally Posted by Wretched

Cheapo imports? Such as? Or is this just another unsubstantiated generalisation?

From what I have seen the Focus is selling in bucket loads, doing really well like it deserves to, not really what i call a cheapo import.

The Ranger is selling well too, cheapo import?

Oh hang on this is about the Mazda 3, that uses the Focus platform. Is this the "cheapo" import, another swipe at it?

Camry and Aurion seem to be selling ok, they're local, kind of (assembled here).

Would it not be far more prudent to look at the reasons WHY the Falcon and Commodore are not selling like they used to and mitigate those instead of just banning imports?
Why is it all of sudden the Falcodore is out of favor with the buying public?
is it the car? Is it the fact only a sedan is available? Are the others offering better value? or is it simply people don't need a car like that?
I know I'd never be looking at another local car. My parents after 30 years of Falcon buying have moved to VW and to a Focus ST.

Mate, what are you even doing in these forums?

Can you produce figures that show me that the Maxima and Liberty out-sell the Falcon?

You clearly don't like the Falcon...are you sure these forums are for you?

Take your Porsche logo elsewhere old chap.

[mcnews]

His (wretched) input seems more useful than yours...

[Ford_The_Win]

Originally Posted by sbutler

New car sales are up by 13.5% this year yet Ford & Holden are going broke!!WTF! The sales are made up of cheapo inports. Simple fix for the very sick Australian car makers.
STOP IMPORTS

That sounds like a good idea. Let's go back to the early 1990s when Ford and Holden were on top of the sales charts and their factories were churning out sloppy, outdated crap.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by turbodewd

Mate, what are you even doing in these forums?

Can you produce figures that show me that the Maxima and Liberty out-sell the Falcon?

You clearly don't like the Falcon...are you sure these forums are for you?

Take your Porsche logo elsewhere old chap.

What am I doing on these forums? I am a Ford fan; a car enthusiast.
What has Maxima and Liberty got to do with Falcon sales?
This is not a Falcon forum, if you read the title and the address of the site, it is FORD forums.

How about old chap, you actually contribute something to a discussion instead of whining and trolling around. Your snide remarks show nothing but immaturity and bring nothing positive to the thread.

[MercurySilver]

that you thought needed responding to?
LOL

how about the big cars dont sell because people
a. cant afford the fuel
b. want to make a smaller carbon footprint

?

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by MercurySilver

how about the big cars dont sell because people
a. cant afford the fuel
b. want to make a smaller carbon footprint

?

I think also now manufacturers are producing far more varied products off a single platform, therefore pretty much catering to individual requirements.

One time the large sedan was the people mover and the family hack, the one size fits all, now SUVs and even smaller SUVs have taken over as the family runabout, the "small" hatch can do that quite easily without any issues.

There is still a market for large sedans but it isn't what it used to be. Manufacturers will need adapt to this and either spread the load across their other products to help pick up the slack (ford with Territory and Holden with Cruze) and or offer technology or other innovations within that vehicle not offered by other makes in that market (Toyota with Hybrid Camry).

[Motorbreath310]

On a side note, has anyone else noticed how they're reviving the Mirage and Pulsar names? Is this an Australia-only thing? Does it even matter with all of these class of car being so damn similar and boring? Look at the Altima for example. From what I can see it's just another *yawn* cheap applian..c...zzzzzzZZzzzzzz


Maybe they'll rebadge Mondeo as a Telstar?

[stevz]

Originally Posted by MercurySilver

that you thought needed responding to?
LOL

how about the big cars dont sell because people
a. cant afford the fuel
b. want to make a smaller carbon footprint

?

That is just a weak excuse, nothing more, nothing less. If you cannot afford fuel then perhaps you shouldn't be in the market for any type of new car.
Besides, the average motorist who does 20,000km per year would only save a few hundred dollars per year by driving a 4 cylinder buzzbox compared to a 6 cylinder Falcon or Commodore.

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by prydey

mazda 3 topped the charts here, but globally mazda are struggling financially. don't be fooled by sales figures. some chase volume over profits.

I'm pretty sure Ford Australia would be happy to exchange books with Mazda Australia right now.

Falcon sales numbers are lowest in its history in Australia, the niche makes more money argument you always roll out is ringing very hollow.

Lets hope Ford can increase sales of the locals, because like Mazda it needs profit on the cars and volume to have a future in local manufacturing.

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by MercurySilver

that you thought needed responding to?
LOL

how about the big cars dont sell because people
a. cant afford the fuel
b. want to make a smaller carbon footprint

?

I think in the private market another big player is very cheap airfares. Now people don't need a large car for the annual trip to the relatives or the Gold Coast. They catch a plane and rent a small buz box for getting around when they get there.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by stevz

That is just a weak excuse, nothing more, nothing less. If you cannot afford fuel then perhaps you shouldn't be in the market for any type of new car.

An executive of one of the big supermarket chains told me once that Australians are highly sensitive about fuel costs - even though it often flies in the face of rational calculation. The supermarkets cash in on that emotion big time with their vouchers that aren't actually savings at all, but a big scam.

I usually let my brain stay in charge, but my recent experience of changing from a long spell in a Skoda at 6 litres/100 back to my Territory at 12 litres/100 and now watching the fuel gauge visibly and rapidly go down has me saying "ouch"! If I cringe at it, imagine what Joe Average who doesn't do the true calcs thinks?!

[Professor Farnsworth]

Originally Posted by stevz

That is just a weak excuse, nothing more, nothing less. If you cannot afford fuel then perhaps you shouldn't be in the market for any type of new car.
Besides, the average motorist who does 20,000km per year would only save a few hundred dollars per year by driving a 4 cylinder buzzbox compared to a 6 cylinder Falcon or Commodore.

Yes when i bought the Rio i should have thought instead "maybe instead of saving money on a small capacity run-about, i don't actually deserve to drive at all?"

*high 5*

In our case and traffic situation in the Rio we do roughly 27000km 95%/5% city/hwy per year at (according to my fuel records) a rough cost of $3050 at an average of 7.91L/100 for the year. Using my AU V8 as we did previously, we did about the same KM (about 30K actually), at a rough cost of $5900 a year, about 15.5L/100. To me personally, i prefer to keep the extra ~$3000 a year and put it into maintenance/mods for the AU and/or spend it on things we wouldn't otherwise be able to, put in savings etc.

My BF XR6 with the ZF did 12-13L/100 (actual, not trip computer readings) in similar situations, which also adds up to a big difference in fuel costs.

But i'm not sure you're after a logical reply, as your post was one of the most throw-away, un thought-out replies i've ever read on here.

[Ducati888]

I find the term "4 cylinder buzz box" amusing in 2013. Whilst it may have been true in the 70's, they are a long time ago. I remember my 1971 Capri was topped out at 120kph, flat out in 4th and screaming its lungs out. So was mums 1978 Escort.

A standard 4cylinder car such as a 3 or Corolla in 2013 makes more power, handles better and has more room inside than most of the 'traditional sixes and V8's' of the 70', especially compared to the VB-VL Commodore for interior space. How much power did a 302 Falcon or a 253 Kingswood make? 140Kw? Honda Accord Euro had that power in 2003.

A modern 4 cylinder car is a limousine compared to those old cars of the 70's and 80's, and the perception that a big engine is required to travel intercity is crap. Anything will do a Sydney to Melbourne dash without raising a sweat. Most people don't though. They use their cars for going to work. Everything goes the same speed in a traffic jam.

[EB#]

Originally Posted by stevz

...If you cannot afford fuel then perhaps you shouldn't be in the market for any type of new car.
Besides, the average motorist who does 20,000km per year would only save a few hundred
dollars per year by driving a 4 cylinder buzzbox compared to a 6 cylinder Falcon or Commodore.

6 cylinder, 10.5L/100km:
5 years x 20,000km per year = 100,000km
100,000 divided by 100 = 1000
1000 x 10.5 x $1.55 = $16,275 fuel bill over 5 years

4 cylinder, 7.0L/100km
5 years x 20,000km per year = 100,000km
100,000 divided by 100 = 1000
1000 x 7.0 x $1.55 = $11,625 fuel bill over 5 years

Difference is $930 per year, at the conservative rate of 20,000km per year.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by EB92

6 cylinder, 10.5L/100km:
5 years x 20,000km per year = 100,000km
100,000 divided by 100 = 1000
1000 x 10.5 x $1.55 = $16,275 fuel bill over 5 years

4 cylinder, 7.0L/100km
5 years x 20,000km per year = 100,000km
100,000 divided by 100 = 1000
1000 x 7.0 x $1.55 = $11,625 fuel bill over 5 years

Difference is $930 per year, at the conservative rate of 20,000km per year.

Now add to that the 6 cylinder being Australian-built and having reasonable service, parts, repairs and insurance costs (operating costs) and the 4 cyl being imported and such costs being higher .... I've left out depreciation but the general picture is that fuel costs are only a minority proportion of whole-of-life costs and can be counterbalanced by other operating costs.

Originally Posted by Ducati888

A modern 4 cylinder car is a limousine compared to those old cars of the 70's and 80's, and the perception that a big engine is required to travel intercity is crap. Anything will do a Sydney to Melbourne dash without raising a sweat. Most people don't though. They use their cars for going to work. Everything goes the same speed in a traffic jam.

Most of those modern 4 cyls are merely idling under Australian speed limits. In Europe they're doing 120-180 km/h on motorways for hours on end, no sweat! And consuming less fuel while at it.

[Professor Farnsworth]

Originally Posted by new2ford

Now add to that the 6 cylinder being Australian-built and having reasonable service, parts, repairs and insurance costs (operating costs) and the 4 cyl being imported and such costs being higher .... I've left out depreciation but the general picture is that fuel costs are only a minority proportion of whole-of-life costs and can be counterbalanced by other operating costs.

the Kia has very cheap parts, even genuine (comparatively) and has capped service costs for 5 years of warranty. You left out depreciation but that's also a huge difference between large aussie and small import cars, you'll generally get more in resale 9 times out of 10 with a small car. The Rio costs considerably less to insure than my AU. The Rio also has many features still unseen in the current lineup of top-model Falcons.

None of this will stop be buying another new Falcon but, facts are facts.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by Professor Farnsworth

the Kia has very cheap parts, even genuine (comparatively) and has capped service costs for 5 years of warranty. You left out depreciation but that's also a huge difference between large aussie and small import cars, you'll generally get more in resale 9 times out of 10 with a small car. The Rio costs considerably less to insure than my AU. The Rio also has many features still unseen in the current lineup of top-model Falcons.

None of this will stop be buying another new Falcon but, facts are facts.

Unless I missed it I couldn't find the Rio in this lineup of whole-of-life ballpark operating costs (including depreciation):

http://www.mynrma.com.au/motoring/bu...op-10-cars.htm

Quite a few Hyundais and Skodas and, except for Focus, Ford has a bit of a dismal showing!

Try it yourself, comparing like with like of course:

http://www.mynrma.com.au/mynrma/oper...alculator.aspx

Background here:

http://www.mynrma.com.au/motoring/bu...ting-costs.htm

One of my "justifications" for retaining the Territory is that the operating cost is not much different from a Prius I-tech!

[xisled]

When buying a new car, People do not do maths. They automatically think 4 cylinders cheaper, buzz box, new 4 cylinder cars have more features than a falcon, plus they have similar cabin size, even tho they look smaller.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by xisled

When buying a new car, People do not do maths.

Exactly. Or the maths extend as far as the fuel consumption and nothing more.

[stevz]

Originally Posted by Professor Farnsworth

Yes when i bought the Rio i should have thought instead "maybe instead of saving money on a small capacity run-about, i don't actually deserve to drive at all?"

*high 5*

In our case and traffic situation in the Rio we do roughly 27000km 95%/5% city/hwy per year at (according to my fuel records) a rough cost of $3050 at an average of 7.91L/100 for the year. Using my AU V8 as we did previously, we did about the same KM (about 30K actually), at a rough cost of $5900 a year, about 15.5L/100. To me personally, i prefer to keep the extra ~$3000 a year and put it into maintenance/mods for the AU and/or spend it on things we wouldn't otherwise be able to, put in savings etc.

My BF XR6 with the ZF did 12-13L/100 (actual, not trip computer readings) in similar situations, which also adds up to a big difference in fuel costs.

But i'm not sure you're after a logical reply, as your post was one of the most throw-away, un thought-out replies i've ever read on here.

So you spend $20+k on a buzzbox all in the name of saving $3k per year? Wow, that's great economics there. I'm glad you're not my accountant.
My reply un thought-out? Perhaps if you weren't so busy trying to justify your purchase you would see reality.

Originally Posted by Ducati888

I find the term "4 cylinder buzz box" amusing in 2013. Whilst it may have been true in the 70's, they are a long time ago. I remember my 1971 Capri was topped out at 120kph, flat out in 4th and screaming its lungs out. So was mums 1978 Escort.

A standard 4cylinder car such as a 3 or Corolla in 2013 makes more power, handles better and has more room inside than most of the 'traditional sixes and V8's' of the 70', especially compared to the VB-VL Commodore for interior space. How much power did a 302 Falcon or a 253 Kingswood make? 140Kw? Honda Accord Euro had that power in 2003.

A modern 4 cylinder car is a limousine compared to those old cars of the 70's and 80's, and the perception that a big engine is required to travel intercity is crap. Anything will do a Sydney to Melbourne dash without raising a sweat. Most people don't though. They use their cars for going to work. Everything goes the same speed in a traffic jam.

Nobody is denying that 4 cylinder cars have improved enormously, but larger 6 and 8 cylinder cars have also improved in the same way, so the gap between them remains the same.
I think the term 'buzzbox' remains perfectly relevant. Small 4 cylinder cars are gutless, torqueless, need to be revved, sound like a sewing machine and are soulless and appliance like. For somebody that enjoys driving I find them depressing.

Originally Posted by EB92

6 cylinder, 10.5L/100km:
5 years x 20,000km per year = 100,000km
100,000 divided by 100 = 1000
1000 x 10.5 x $1.55 = $16,275 fuel bill over 5 years

4 cylinder, 7.0L/100km
5 years x 20,000km per year = 100,000km
100,000 divided by 100 = 1000
1000 x 7.0 x $1.55 = $11,625 fuel bill over 5 years

Difference is $930 per year, at the conservative rate of 20,000km per year.

That's around $17 per week. I don't understand why anybody would make such a compromise with power, space, comfort and safety to save a paltry $17 per week.

Originally Posted by xisled

When buying a new car, People do not do maths. They automatically think 4 cylinders cheaper, buzz box, new 4 cylinder cars have more features than a falcon, plus they have similar cabin size, even tho they look smaller.

That's the thing - Most sheep are blinded by perceptions and all the fancy features and don't realise that if you take all those features away, you are left with a fundamentally inferior vehicle. I would rather drive a bare bones Falcon XT than a fully optioned buzzbox, as I know the Falcon is fundamentally a far better vehicle, which is what matters most imo.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by stevz

Nobody is denying that 4 cylinder cars have improved enormously, but larger 6 and 8 cylinder cars have also improved in the same way, so the gap between them remains the same.
I think the term 'buzzbox' remains perfectly relevant. Small 4 cylinder cars are gutless, torqueless, need to be revved, sound like a sewing machine and are soulless and appliance like. For somebody that enjoys driving I find them depressing.

That's the thing - Most sheep are blinded by perceptions and all the fancy features and don't realise that if you take all those features away, you are left with a fundamentally inferior vehicle. I would rather drive a bare bones Falcon XT than a fully optioned buzzbox, as I know the Falcon is fundamentally a far better vehicle, which is what matters most imo.

A few sweeping presumptions there! I think the only cars that might even remotely fill the "buzzbox" category nowadays are the base ones, at Fiesta level - and even they aren't so buzzy nowadays. After 6 months driving an Octavia at 120-160 km/h, very torquey, quiet, smooth and with a conspicuous lack of buzz, I'd have to be quite honest, wash my mouth out and say it and the Falcon would be neck to neck as a quality long distance drive. In fact I'd go even further and say the Skoda is a fundamentally better vehicle. Now if you want to talk about BMW...!

I love our Territory, it's a great design and a great drive, but I wish to hell (the issue of local jobs aside) it was built at Mlada Boleslav.

[strobe]

I think there's a cultural cringe element to falcon/commodore. I get constantly reminded by people that I'm driving a taxi (XR8), usually they're running a pov spec merc or the like that's used as a taxi by 90% of the rest of the world. My taxi isn't cool, but theirs is? Go figure.

[Professor Farnsworth]

Originally Posted by stevz

So you spend $20+k on a buzzbox all in the name of saving $3k per year? Wow, that's great economics there. I'm glad you're not my accountant.
My reply un thought-out? Perhaps if you weren't so busy trying to justify your purchase you would see reality.



Nobody is denying that 4 cylinder cars have improved enormously, but larger 6 and 8 cylinder cars have also improved in the same way, so the gap between them remains the same.
I think the term 'buzzbox' remains perfectly relevant. Small 4 cylinder cars are gutless, torqueless, need to be revved, sound like a sewing machine and are soulless and appliance like. For somebody that enjoys driving I find them depressing.



That's around $17 per week. I don't understand why anybody would make such a compromise with power, space, comfort and safety to save a paltry $17 per week.



That's the thing - Most sheep are blinded by perceptions and all the fancy features and don't realise that if you take all those features away, you are left with a fundamentally inferior vehicle. I would rather drive a bare bones Falcon XT than a fully optioned buzzbox, as I know the Falcon is fundamentally a far better vehicle, which is what matters most imo.

Your arrogance on here has always been of a very high level. I couldn't care less about justifying anything, that's your misconception yet again. Have you never bought a new car? Maybe I should've bought an 82 laser?

Fom everything I've ever seen you post on here, I'm not the one failing to see reality.

But hey, you have an opinion, so you must be right. Have fun with that. By the way happy new year! 1982 right?