Crow/Wade Cams for the AU

Phoned Crow and Wade cams today about a cam for my AU 2. Wade said they do not supply them for the AU anymore as they have had no success extracting decent enough power gains with non ECU chip upgrade cams over the stock cam.

Crow make one they recommended it is a 201/194 at 50 deg, 111 LSA. The stock AU according to them is a 181/197 at 50 deg, 119 LSA the lift is nearly the same between the two.

There is 17 degrees duration (with in and ex duration taken together) between the two cams which is alot of increase over the stock cam for a non chip upgrade cam and 111 to 119 LSA which is from moderate to very wide.

These two cams are like chalk and cheese in comparison and yet according to Crow they have had it on the dyno it still only makes between 6 and 8 rwkws more power than the stock cam.

Still nearly 10 percent is not bad and it may make more with free flowing exhaust system. I would like to have found out how much more power this cam made in the low to midrange rpm because thats what I would be inclined to purchase it for.

[LG]

http://www.crowcams.com.au/templates...A-AU-OHC.shtml

It lists the Cams for the AUII there, and tells you where the power range is, and some small description of how aggressive the cam is.

[Sourbastard]

I wouldnt use a crow cam in my AU again if it was the last cam available in the universe. Id rather carve one out of wood and jam it in there.

Get a JMM cam, pretend you never uttered the word crow.

[neb]

what was wrong with the crow cam? i thought people get decent results with them?

[Sourbastard]

stage 3 cam = 120rwkw including chip, extractors, airbox mods, vernier gear and jmm plugs. You tell me if it was worth it.

It also ran like a dog, chewed up more fuel then a GT-P and had absolutely no guts at all down low.

[Casper]

Originally Posted by sourbastard

stage 3 cam = 120rwkw including chip, extractors, airbox mods, vernier gear and jmm plugs. You tell me if it was worth it.

It also ran like a dog, chewed up more fuel then a GT-P and had absolutely no guts at all down low.

You were warned!

[neb]

hmmm sounds like something wasn't right, 120rwkw is pathetic... a stock au almost makes that.

i guess most people are using jmm cams and wade cams and getting good results so better to stick with either of those

[Sourbastard]

Originally Posted by Casper

You were warned!

shuddup

[Casper]

Originally Posted by sourbastard

shuddup

I cant help it.............

TOLD YOU SO!!!!

[Sourbastard]

Originally Posted by Casper

I cant help it.............

TOLD YOU SO!!!!

bastage, you know i love ya

Well its nice to hear from someone who has had some experience with Crow cams. Im not sure I understand as I believed Crow cams to have a superb reputation, far better than most cam manafacturors.

I phoned them again today and spoke to Ray (I think?) and he has a stage three cam in his own AU Falcon he said it goes very well and has a "bit" of a lumpy idle. They tell me it makes about 20 more rear wheel KWs with chiptorque. I would expect another 10 kws on top of this with a properly set up exhaust system and extractors.

(I have doupts that Crow extractors without full free flow exaust system would be all that effective or vice versa). As it would only release one point of restriction to move it to another.

They say that a stock AU makes around 100 kws rear (depends if manual or auto).

As of Friday I will already have HM extractors and 2.5 sysem fitted so Im expecting the stage three on top of this would give another 20 rwkws for around 130 rwkws total. I think its about $600 for pre programmed chiptorque chip plus another $390 for billet cam which is budget performance if it gives 20 kws to rear. According to Crow it runs with the stock springs in AU and doesnt nead verier gear unless the head has been decked .

Still, what you say about fuel economy concerns me, are you sure everything was set up correctly, did you raise your idle to compensate a bit (was it an AU) as you have given them a pretty bad rap.

I think Rays AU with the stage three cam may have run with a stock ECU and he says it works very well with the chip?

[neb]

20 or 30rwkws still isn't that great of an increase... i think you should go with the jim mock cam packages.. details on www.jimmockmotorsport.com

Im not sure I like the idea of using shims with their cams. Also more confident that with a local install down here in Tas if I have a chiptorque chip suited to it. My thinking is that it is more likely to all go in without any trouble afterwards if I have a chip to suit. That is why I was surprised on the findings in the above.
I sent an e-mail to JMM some weeks ago but they didnt reply. I was worried I may get stuck down here in Tas without anyone to help over any problems that may be encountered. Sounds like its not all smooth sailing (at least for the first few weeks after install) even when JMM install it.
Also Wade Cams said that the AUs were not as easy to modifiy with stock ECU as the EB EL. It all makes me slightly nervous?
Im wondering how I might go just giving a stock cam a bit more lift to .480 as it may give an increase with the exhaust/extractors etc.

Thanks regardless.
Tim

[stockstandard]

I would be interested to know exactly what has changed between the e-series and the AU's to explain good cam profiles going to hell.

Mechanically...
The rocker ratio changed from 2.0 to 1.8: no big deal, the cam can be ground to suite.
Bottom end changes (longer rods, bigger mains, etc): generally stronger, no reason for power loss

Same drivetrain...

Computerwise, the tune might not be able to learn as well, but an au with a chiptorque/unichip should be the same as an e-series with the same mod.

any ideas?

Maybe we need to see a few e-series powered AU's :

Hi
the car we had with just a exhaust and stage 3 cam made exactly 20 kw more than std 100 before we started 120 after this is true figure done on the same dyno on the same day
there is a lot of variation in dyno we had a customer in Perth dyno the same car a LS1 kit we did on 10 dyno's in Perth on the same day he pre booked them all the worst was 300 the best 410 so you can see it is chalk and cheese
I know off another company who uses one dyno for the before modifaction dyno graphs and another dyno for there after modificatios graphs I dynoed a car on both of these dyno's also wirh the same car on the same day 30 kw at the wheels different and I may ad the dyno'e are both the same brand and supossedly calibrated by the factory
it make for great before and after graphs
WE have had a couple off AU do 145 at the wheel with stage 3 cams with intake mod's minor head work and attention to details
we found the HM header to give the best result they are expensive because they have a built in high flow cat but the long primaries help a long stroke motor
just as a guide the cars we have had 145 KW at the wheel out off the injectors were 100 percent duty cycle and this was with boosted fuel pressure so if people are getting more than that without changing injectors you know the dyno is happy
As for the fuel economy if it is bad there is some thing machaniclly wrong the stage 3 must have either a chip or aftermarket ECU the AU runs closed loop till about 46 % throttle and will run 14.7 air fuel till this point it also has adaptive spark after 46% throttle it runs on a map if this is correct it should then run about 12:1 air fuel if it does not there is either something wrong or the computer is not calibrated properly
The stage 3 is better on fuel then std at highway speed and a little worse around town
Yours Ray
Crow Cams

[LOWAU]

TheCrow-
What chip would you recomend if I would get the Crow stage 3 cam on an AU?
What kind of head work is needed for this cam, or would I get away with none.
How are the idle chararistics for the stage 3 cam?

Thanks

[Stav]

Originally Posted by TheCrow

Hi
the car we had with just a exhaust and stage 3 cam made exactly 20 kw more than std 100 before we started 120 after this is true figure done on the same dyno on the same day
there is a lot of variation in dyno we had a customer in Perth dyno the same car a LS1 kit we did on 10 dyno's in Perth on the same day he pre booked them all the worst was 300 the best 410 so you can see it is chalk and cheese
I know off another company who uses one dyno for the before modifaction dyno graphs and another dyno for there after modificatios graphs I dynoed a car on both of these dyno's also wirh the same car on the same day 30 kw at the wheels different and I may ad the dyno'e are both the same brand and supossedly calibrated by the factory
it make for great before and after graphs
WE have had a couple off AU do 145 at the wheel with stage 3 cams with intake mod's minor head work and attention to details
we found the HM header to give the best result they are expensive because they have a built in high flow cat but the long primaries help a long stroke motor
just as a guide the cars we have had 145 KW at the wheel out off the injectors were 100 percent duty cycle and this was with boosted fuel pressure so if people are getting more than that without changing injectors you know the dyno is happy
As for the fuel economy if it is bad there is some thing machaniclly wrong the stage 3 must have either a chip or aftermarket ECU the AU runs closed loop till about 46 % throttle and will run 14.7 air fuel till this point it also has adaptive spark after 46% throttle it runs on a map if this is correct it should then run about 12:1 air fuel if it does not there is either something wrong or the computer is not calibrated properly
The stage 3 is better on fuel then std at highway speed and a little worse around town
Yours Ray
Crow Cams

Ray..it is a well known fact that the ford i6 AU typically runs very rich.Perhaps many are running at 100%duty cycle.But this is why many of us have gone to chips to reduce injector pulse width and lean out the mixtures.The result are normally equating to a power increase.

[loxxr6]

Maybe speak to Wade if JMM isn't your thing. There's a few FFAU and Fordmods members who rate them.

WE have had a couple off AU do 145 at the wheel with stage 3 cams with intake mod's minor head work and attention to details

How many stages of cams do you guys offer ?

[XRQTR]

Hey Crow, what do you guys have for the VCT AU???

[Casper]

Originally Posted by XRQTR

Hey Crow, what do you guys have for the VCT AU???

hahaha, last time I asked went something like this:

We can custom grind you one. Will cost about $400. Cant guarentee it will give any extra power at all..and you'll need to get a chip for it to run.

[SpoolMan]

Originally Posted by sourbastard

I wouldnt use a crow cam in my AU again if it was the last cam available in the universe. Id rather carve one out of wood and jam it in there.
.

A lot of people say that, its about picking the right Cam for your application...we had mixed results with Crow but very happy now...
biggest mistake most make is going to big you loose to much low down punch....
But I would agree if you don’t know which grind to pick, get JMM cam the one they recommend for you, will work..

Its not that difficult to get a cam with fairly mild duration to make lots of power with stock ECU and auto all the way to the rev limmiter. They just grind them on a super wide LSA (118?) with more lift. Trouble is it does work but its a take from Peter to give to Paul philosophy and you will always lose in one area to gain in another.

Most pro drag cars grind there LSAs at around 107 which is at the other end of the scale they find that this makes best power but they dont have as many practical considerations as a modern day car to consider.
I wonder if some of these cams wide very wide LSAs do actually make the standing quarter times vary much at all despite a big top end power increase especially with stock auto and no diff change?

[justa6]

I've had my au xr6 motor built for a turbo, balanced, ported head, low comp. and jmm turbo cam. I have'nt got the turbs on yet and with a little under 8:1 compression i thought it was going to be the slowest au in town. After running it in i'm finding it almost goes better then before, definently up top going hard all the way to the limiter. I've had cars go worse after putting cams in them, so to take that much compression out of it and it still go says something about jmm.

[And04133411]

hey guys! im running a crows stage 3 cam in my au 6 banger, with custom dyno tune, hi-flow filter, el tickford twin intake, ba v8 snorkle, luckey extractors, 100cpsi hi-flow cat and redback cat back system with varex remote muffler. head has had a full reco with ported inlets and exhaust, and engine runs at 10.1 comp. at dyno made 148 rwkw on bp 98% fuel. so thats 48 kw increase from stock? because i thought that a stock au engine put out 157kw at flywheel. then because its a manual it looses 18% to get to wheels, so i would have thought that it origanally had 127 at rear wheels? makeing my gain of 21kw