5 young men killed in high speed crash.

[UNR8D]

missing the point 4V man, it was N/A and that = same power/weight as your fleet spec XT.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by UNR8D

missing the point 4V man, it was N/A and that = same power/weight as your fleet spec XT.

NOBODY is blaming the car....... do some research.... witnesses have said he clipped a gutter travelling at very high speed weaving past another car and lost control....

[Bobman]

So when 3aw and various comments on news websites with people saying restrict P platers to "100 kilowatts" - is that not implying that this car was "powerful"?

Btw, also reported one of the friends of the deceased was caught doing 165km/h in a 70 or 80 zone overnight.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Bobman

Btw, also reported one of the friends of the deceased was caught doing 165km/h in a 70 or 80 zone overnight.

Yes i saw that.. the arrogance, indifference and contempt being displayed by some people since sat night is astounding...
Of the approximately 580 impounded cars in vic last year apparently about 450 of them were P platers and 44 were L platers.....

[Joshmcmillan]

Originally Posted by XR_6falcon

Today tonight used the words "high powered" several times including when they showed a VS como in an incident and it too was "high powered"

A VS Commodore is very high powered... compared to a whipper snipper.

[kezzer]

Originally Posted by fromBAonwards

true. Lets hope we catch more car hoons;) and punish them harsher to deter future offenders perhaps do some denunciation and send a stronger message to the community.

Originally Posted by fromBAonwards

The BA and BF make over 95% of their peak torque at 1500rpm, but have a taller 1st gear for 4 speed auto variants.

Still , so far I've dragged a few Di V6 commos, and they had no chance, they keep up to 50 and then i slowly pull away.

:togo: :togo: :togo: From another thread.

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Yes i saw that.. the arrogance, indifference and contempt being displayed by some people since sat night is astounding...
Of the approximately 580 impounded cars in vic last year apparently about 450 of them were P platers and 44 were L platers.....

Wow, 450!! Definetly says something. Is impoundment the biggest fine for hooning?

[Bud Bud]

Originally Posted by balthazarr

I don't really remember the details, but I do remember watching video footage of real victims, real accidents, real gore... it was pretty full on.

Originally Posted by ltd

When I was 18 I saw the video from the Ambulance guys when they attended accidents; the one with the old 60's model white fairlane that hit a tree at 180 or so head on (no skid marks) and wasn't all that damaged, until you looked inside. The level of horror in this changed me. The girl that was one foot taller than on her records thanks to her bones shattering being laid out on the blanket made me feel ill. After seeing it, I lost all of my bravado (not mojo); I learnt new respect for moving objects.

I mentioned this in a similar thread perhaps a couple of years ago, In the 70's there was a doco called "You just don't realise" made from real police accident footage which was aired on primetime nationally. Nothing was spared. This doco shocked and shamed the nation and was referred to for many years after. It certainly had an incredible effect on me. I wonder if the do-gooders of today would allow a more relevant and modern version to be aired today or would it be seen as too shocking in our now sanitised world.

[trendkill555666]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Yes i saw that.. the arrogance, indifference and contempt being displayed by some people since sat night is astounding...
Of the approximately 580 impounded cars in vic last year apparently about 450 of them were P platers and 44 were L platers.....

and middle aged people with their full licenses don't do the wrong thing? sorry for the sarcasm but my wife still has her P's and she has been tail gated and abused by middle aged men because she does the speed limit.
if I sat right behind an L of P plater and beeped the horn for no good reason but I'm in a hurry then they have an accident, it's the L or P platers fault, I think not.

and yes the arrogance, indifference and contempt is astounding.

[TUF_302]

Originally Posted by Joshmcmillan

A VS Commodore is very high powered... compared to a whipper snipper.

And a whipper snipper is high powered compared to my watch, its silly of the media to say such things like this, as i've said before its not about how much power you have, its how you handle what you got!

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by trendkill555666

and middle aged people with their full licenses don't do the wrong thing? sorry for the sarcasm but my wife still has her P's and she has been tail gated and abused by middle aged men because she does the speed limit.
if I sat right behind an L of P plater and beeped the horn for no good reason but I'm in a hurry then they have an accident, it's the L or P platers fault, I think not.

and yes the arrogance, indifference and contempt is astounding.

Not relevant to this incident and associated behaviour though is it....

[trendkill555666]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Not relevant to this incident and associated behaviour though is it....

I do appologise.

[prydey]

at the risk of sounding like an old fuddy dud, i think a lot of the issues that cause these shocking incidents are totally unrelated to cars and driving.

its a general attitude by the youth today. there is no respect anymore. no respect for authority, no respect for others!!

there is a constant drive for entertainment. most would go out EVERY weekend and sometimes during the week and indulge in alcohol and other illegal substances. once intoxicated there is even less regard for rules and regulations.

we've all been young, some of us are lucky enough to get through that stage and realise, upon reflection, how lucky we were at times. unfortunately when you push things to the limits that we see these days, luck won't help.

nearly all incidents these days involve not just excessive speed but ridiculous speed combined with drugs/alcohol and idiot mates who think its all a laugh.

its refreshing the number of people who feel strongly about it but its a shame 5 people have to lose their life for people to get a dose of reality.

if you want to make a difference, just make sure everytime you hop in a car you do the right thing. if all the members on this forum made a stand to behave on the road thats a start, and hopefully it may rub off on those we mix with.

[Romulus]

Interesting to read the number of people referring to this tragedy as an incident not an accident. An accident is unavoidable, this incident was totally avoidable. No amount of talk fest is going to make any difference to the type of person who carries out this action.

[GK351]

Cant beleive a freind of the deceased got booked at 165km/h..
I agree with the post a few pages back about the do gooders about teaching kids at school that you have more rights than your parants.

Thats were the bulletproof starts.
If they are getting teached about that sort of stuff what do you expect.
society has changed alot in the last 15 years, and as father of a boy almost 3 and a little 8 month old girl, i dread the thought of that being teached at their schools in future.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by GK351

I agree with the post a few pages back about the do gooders about teaching kids at school that you have more rights than your parants.

Thats were the bulletproof starts.
If they are getting teached about that sort of stuff what do you expect.
society has changed alot in the last 15 years, and as father of a boy almost 3 and a little 8 month old girl, i dread the thought of that being teached at their schools in future.

Woah, a bit off topic dont you think.
The way i see it the 'doo-gooders' never said kids have more rights than their parents, they just made it clear that parental control stopped at physical abuse.

Lets be honest, if you have good parenting skills and have kept your kid in line from knee high, the subject of who sets the rules shouldnt be an issue.
Perhaps if parents used the correct techniques in raising their children the child would learn respect and common sense instead of being allowed to roam free like a wild animal.
A child is like a puppy, train it with the right techniques and it will grow to be a well behaved friend, let it go wild without training and it becomes feral.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by TVS Super Pursuit

Interesting to read the number of people referring to this tragedy as an incident not an accident. An accident is unavoidable, this incident was totally avoidable. No amount of talk fest is going to make any difference to the type of person who carries out this action.

It would be nice to see the media adopt a similar approach, it might be the first step in increasing peer pressure to stop this kind of behaviour.....

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Bucknaked

This is 2010. Long gone are the days where a small car is gutless and can't do anything. A lot of the small cars today have more power than bigger cars from 30 years ago. Those using that excuse are just full of it.

I was talking to my Dad who had a 1971 XU1 Torana in 1978, him and 2 of his mates had the same model car, I was looking at their specs and the biggest engine available in the Torana of 1971 was 3.3L Inline 6 and it put out 90Kw, My Fiesta has 4 cylinders, makes 88Kw from 1.6L and weighs 1090Kg...

Also, the DC2 Type R Integra of 1999 is a 4 cylinder, revs to 8000RPM and makes 147Kw, it weighs 1160Kg, it has a power to weight ratio of 126 Kw/Tonne. FG XR6 has roughly 111Kw/Tonne. Both are P plate legal cars here in Victoria. The Integra will do 0-100km/h from a standstill in 6.7 seconds.

Not bad for 1.8L 4 cylinder.

Anyways, I was watching that ACA article just before and when Leila first introduced it, the photo of the kid on the very right hand side nearly looks exactly like me, it was a bit of a shock for Dad.

Power to weight ratio = power divided by weight. Try it out on some cars you know of and we'll compare what a P plater can/can't drive.

[luckykar]

Originally Posted by dave93761

As a start, all young people should be made to watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2mf8DtWWd8

Thanks for that link I have made my kids watch this video and have sent it to all there mates.

Its a real tragedy for people who have to deal with this sort of thing , ambos , police, parents , this is something you never forget and sometimes don't get over.

[GK351]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Woah, a bit off topic dont you think.

I find it relates to the accident in some way or another.

Originally Posted by BENT_8

The way i see it the 'doo-gooders' never said kids have more rights than their parents, they just made it clear that parental control stopped at physical abuse.

In other words they teach if your dad or mum gives you a backhander to keep you in line, report them to the cops.
Thats were it all starts, the rebelling to the bulletproof feeling these kids get
when they know they have more power over mum and dad, and if they have more power over mum and dad, they feel they have more power than the law just like the idiot that killed 5 mates.

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Lets be honest, if you have good parenting skills and have kept your kid in line from knee high, the subject of who sets the rules shouldnt be an issue.

Untill they come home and question you about the smacks you gave them a few years before and made to think your a criminal for giveing them a few little smacks. Thats what they are teaching. And thats where the disrespect for mum dad and society starts from. Just like the fool who killed 5.

[sarrge2001]

Legislation won't fix this.

There is legislation to take away peoples licences yet a proportion of them will still drive, some while drunk and some in unregistered vehicles.

There will always be that proportion of the population who believe that the laws don't apply to them and sadly, when it comes to speed, a significantly higher proportion will be young males, because, as has been stated before, they are 10 feet tall and bulletproof (as was I at 18).

And so they will behave recklessly, whether it's in a car or rock climbing or jetty jumping and some will be lucky and escape unscathed through those years. But unfortunately, some of them will die. And that is a tragedy. For them, their friends, their familes and the people they may take with them. No matter whether they were stupid, or reckless, or simply in the wrong place at the wrong time.....it is a waste of a life.

But better parenting won't make it better. Legislation won't fix it. Education won't eradicate it. Punishment won't stop it. .

It's attitude. It's taking responsibility for your own actions. It's being socially responsible.

And it's a bloody waste when it happens.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by sarrge2001

Legislation won't fix this.

There is legislation to take away peoples licences yet a proportion of them will still drive, some while drunk and some in unregistered vehicles.

There will always be that proportion of the population who believe that the laws don't apply to them and sadly, when it comes to speed, a significantly higher proportion will be young males, because, as has been stated before, they are 10 feet tall and bulletproof (as was I at 18).

And so they will behave recklessly, whether it's in a car or rock climbing or jetty jumping and some will be lucky and escape unscathed through those years. But unfortunately, some of them will die. And that is a tragedy. For them, their friends, their familes and the people they may take with them. No matter whether they were stupid, or reckless, or simply in the wrong place at the wrong time.....it is a waste of a life.

But better parenting won't make it better. Legislation won't fix it. Education won't eradicate it. Punishment won't stop it. .

It's attitude. It's taking responsibility for your own actions. It's being socially responsible.

And it's a bloody waste when it happens.

You make some good points... there is a fairly alarming % of these people who loose their license but continue to drive, have an unregistered vehicle, ignore power restrictions and drive what ever they want...
They ignore all the laws and rules anyway....

[trendkill555666]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2mf8DtWWd8

my wife has been talking about this, that is brutal, I'll be showing it to my kids in time.

[Cam]

Originally Posted by sarrge2001

Legislation won't fix this.

There is legislation to take away peoples licences yet a proportion of them will still drive, some while drunk and some in unregistered vehicles.

There will always be that proportion of the population who believe that the laws don't apply to them and sadly, when it comes to speed, a significantly higher proportion will be young males, because, as has been stated before, they are 10 feet tall and bulletproof (as was I at 18).

And so they will behave recklessly, whether it's in a car or rock climbing or jetty jumping and some will be lucky and escape unscathed through those years. But unfortunately, some of them will die. And that is a tragedy. For them, their friends, their familes and the people they may take with them. No matter whether they were stupid, or reckless, or simply in the wrong place at the wrong time.....it is a waste of a life.

But better parenting won't make it better. Legislation won't fix it. Education won't eradicate it. Punishment won't stop it. .

It's attitude. It's taking responsibility for your own actions. It's being socially responsible.

And it's a bloody waste when it happens.

I agree with all of this..

Some of us will drive dangerously despite knowing what can happen, or drive drunk knowing the risks..

Just like we smoke, and get cancer
Eat crappy food, and get fat
etc etc..

That's the joy of being human, we make our own choices, and despite all the training, or legislation, or common knowledge we will still make our own choices, be they the right ones or the wrong ones, or the ones that kill us in an instant or kill us slowly..

It's just how we are..

Very sad that this happened, but its not going to stop happening, no matter what..

[Romulus]

Watching Ch. 7 news tonight it referred to this "accident". They brought up the statistics on young people 18-24yo killed in road accidents. The statistics showed an 'over representation' of this age group killed on the roads, between 22 to 26% between Qld, NSW, ACT and Victoria. It must be stated then 75% of road fatalities do not fall into this 'over represented' age group. What's their excuse?

I think the media is trying to beat up this story. How many people die from recreational drug overdoses everyday. Road accident fatalities are a soft target for the media.

[rodderz]

Drove past the site today to and from work, the tv crews were there early this morning taking more footage, there was still a heap of rubbish there, broken tail lights, fittings etc, but was shocked to see a heap of the victim's mates must have had a big booze up there last night and left all their empties and empty cartons everywhere. I'm all for having a beer in memory of your mates- but leaving crap everywhere where such an event has happened?

This afternoon it had all been cleaned up and there was a huge pile of flowers around the tree and about 15 cars parked along the roadside.

Hopefully the big crowd of kids there realised the ramifications of such driving acts

[MAD]

Originally Posted by GK351

Cant beleive a freind of the deceased got booked at 165km/h..
I agree with the post a few pages back about the do gooders about teaching kids at school that you have more rights than your parants.

Thats were the bulletproof starts.
If they are getting teached about that sort of stuff what do you expect.
society has changed alot in the last 15 years, and as father of a boy almost 3 and a little 8 month old girl, i dread the thought of that being teached at their schools in future.

This is what I referred to in my earlier post. A percentage of the friend group, most likely males, will 'know' in their minds that they can drive better than their deceased friend, so it doesnt matter if they drive in the same manner.

I agree with many of the sentiments given about discipline being far too lenient these days, and the lack of respect to authority stems from this.
If it is seen that you can get away with stuff at school, you lose respect for the teachers and their position of authority, if you get away with stuff at home, you lose respect for your parents authority, and then to top it off, when you get away with stuff in the world and get let off by the police with a slap on the wrist, you lose respect for them too.

Real penalties need to start being handed out and followed up from a young age. Tough love.

[mik]

Originally Posted by exactly

yes i agree but he wont be doing 140km in a proton with five people or have the kids wanting to go for a ride in proton coz it go o-100 as fast as xr6
///////????????

sorry but i`d have to disagree, if they wanted to go out cruiseing , and a proton was all they had, the proton it would be, it might take longer to get to speed, but i gaurantee you this, it would make terminal velocity.

[fromBAonwards]

lmao another one of my comments got deleted:( come on guys lets be friends here

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by TVS Super Pursuit

I think the media is trying to beat up this story. How many people die from recreational drug overdoses everyday. Road accident fatalities are a soft target for the media.

Very interesting point. In my experience there are far more deaths from drug overdoses. I have even been to the same person multiple times for drug overdoses, some don't make it.

I think the difference is an individual having a simple drug overdose is not on the public street for the world to see and does not normally involve the wounding or killing of others, road trauma does.

[balthazarr]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

Very interesting point. In my experience there are far more deaths from drug overdoses. I have even been to the same person multiple times for drug overdoses, some don't make it.

I think the difference is an individual having a simple drug overdose is not on the public street for the world to see and does not normally involve the wounding or killing of others, road trauma does.

Off-topic, but I have to comment on your last paragraph above... ODs often do occur on public streets for the world to see and, though the OD doesn't necessarily involve wounding or killing of others, the lead up to the OD may do so... eg. armed robberies to fund the next fix, or the user may get violent, etc.

Having said that - I understand your point... an OD is far more introspective, and the potential to harm innocent bystanders is far, far lower.