Cyclists

[Valknutr]

Originally Posted by mad machs

Used to really enjoy cycling but our roads over here are just too dangerous so switched to Motorcycles & then cars.

Don't know if this news story reached you guys-

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/north_west/4592412.stm

very sad.

ok this reminds me of the story of the australian riders in germany who got cleaned up by the young girl and amy(?) gillette died.
The funniest thing i have ever seen was a police officer on a PUSHBIKE (had the flashing light, police lycra and everything) pull over a car and fine them, it was hilarious.

[xbgs351]

Originally Posted by xe351

Obviously there needs to be more cyclists lanes provided, and if someone parks in the lane, a parking fine for them, but at the same time if a cyclist rides on the road where theres a lane available, fine them too. Mixing cars and bikes can be dangerous, take up swimming i reckon, you might drown, but you wont get hit by a car

Bike lanes are usually that full of glass and road debris that riding in a bike lane is not an option.

[xbgs351]

Originally Posted by parawolf

Just an an extra to my previous statement drivers might like to know some things that VicRoads are considering to trial.

These things are called "Copenhangen Lanes". What are these I hear you ask? They are a fixed bicycle lane from the road edge out approximately 2 metres into the road with a hard concrete barrier on the right hand edge. From there you will have car parking, and then car traffic lane and where appropriate, car traffic lane to be shared with trams. So obviously during peak out, the parking lane becomes extra traffic lane.

However what is the problem with this? People, including kids, that have NEVER had to look out of cyclists before (car left hand side passengers) now could be opening the door onto 30+km/h cyclists (I have reached 50.5km/h maximum on the way to work, and regularly hit 48km/h). This leaves cyclists with no-where to go with either into the parked car, or into the footpath and into pedistrians or potential cafe/restaurant goers.

To me these are a bad idea for competant cyclists that obey the road rules like myself. However it is a good idea for those 'Sunday' cyclists that just potter around at under 20km/h.

Oh and as a final comment on this, I would be happy to pay rego for cycling, however I figure as rego goes on the physical size/weight/capacity on the vehicle and if it is going to be pro-rata to be fair on the cyclist. Then the ~$600 a year for a 1600kg falcon in Victoria, my 12kg bike is going to cost about $4 a year in rego.

As a cyclist the Copenhagen Lanes look damn scary. Limited visibility, pedestrians to your left and right, nowhere to swerve to, difficulties at intersections. I think I would mix it with the traffic as I would be far safer.

All I can say if heavy fines for any car parked in a push bike lane and massive fines for push bikes not obeying the road rules

[parawolf]

Originally Posted by xbgs351

As a cyclist the Copenhagen Lanes look damn scary. Limited visibility, pedestrians to your left and right, nowhere to swerve to, difficulties at intersections. I think I would mix it with the traffic as I would be far safer.

Me too - but you risk a $50 fine for not doing it. But the 'not riding in a lane' rule does have an exception if you read the fine print.

[Psycho Chicken]

Originally Posted by John McMaster

Very true and as far as I'm concerned all p/bike riders/owners should pay rego fees.

Get nicked, I need to pay rego on my bike so I can ride in a whopping 500 metres to the local park where I ride it? Or the 3km ride to the beach track, most of which I spend on footpaths in industrial estates?

[parawolf]

Originally Posted by Psycho Chicken

Get nicked, I need to pay rego on my bike so I can ride in a whopping 500 metres to the local park where I ride it? Or the 3km ride to the beach track, most of which I spend on footpaths in industrial estates?

nah see if you check out my justification for how to charge for rego based on pro-rata for mass, then it works out to about $4 a bike. However as a unit price it would cost more to process than that and to put the infrastructure in place.

Then again... over 1.1Million bikes were sold last year - more than cars. Though then again, perhaps it should be built into the cost of the bike. Most don't last more than 4 years so $15 for 'rego' when buying a new bike should cover it.

Again won't happen.

[biomechanic]

I ride 10km to and from work every day, down Wellington St in Collingwood. If anyone has cycled down there, you'll know it's like running the Gauntlet of HyperDeath in peak hour. People turn in front of you without checking their mirrors (or even indicating), or people coming out of a side street don't stop before the bike lane, rather they stop IN it. ИИИИ, I nearly got taken out by a cop the other day.

I've nearly been taken out no less than a dozen times in 6 months. It's so bad I've started wearing steel caps while I ride so I can leave a nice present in the side of any car whose driver can't spare 0.2 of a second to check their side mirror. I always dismount, walk around to the front of the care and shout my head off until they get the picture.

4WDs are the main culprit.

I'm wary of cars, I always look behind me before making a turn, I signal well before I need to make a turn, and am always careful not to do anything risky.

Drivers have a tonne and a half of steel, we have a few hundred grams of plastic for protection. Please, if you're in an area where there is clearly marked bike lanes, take care and always check for cyclists.

[MO]

Originally Posted by Psycho Chicken

Get nicked, I need to pay rego on my bike so I can ride in a whopping 500 metres to the local park where I ride it? Or the 3km ride to the beach track, most of which I spend on footpaths in industrial estates?

YOU ride on a public road with cars you pay rego...if by some chance you use bikepaths and dismount to cross public roads no rego.

But to be fair pay rego because none of you pushies could be that good.

Also when pushies start obeying the road rules then and only then will you get my respect!!!!!

[parawolf]

Originally Posted by John McMaster

YOU ride on a public road with cars you pay rego...if by some chance you use bikepaths and dismount to cross public roads no rego.

But to be fair pay rego because none of you pushies could be that good.

Also when pushies start obeying the road rules then and only then will you get my respect!!!!!

See it is a crap attitude like that, that tars all cyclists with one brush. Some of us (like myself, and other cyclists i ride with) obey the road rules. I wouldn't be against a fair 'rego' system, however i'd want to see local and state governments do something directly which improves cycling lanes and see that money go directly into improve cyclists safety on the road.

So please, not every cyclist is a manic, some of us are trying to improve the social view of cyclists on the road by obeying all road signs, signaling intention well ahead of time, and basically being predicable.

However as a cyclist, I see morons all the time that run red lights, and run stop signs, that don't ride in the in the bike lane (ride on the tram lines). These people aren't long for this world in my opinion, and they need a firm kick up the backside from the police enforcing the road rules.

[pauljh74]

For all those pushing for rego on bikes - if you've got kids who have bikes, then you'd have to pay rego on each bike wouldn't you? While we're at it, rego for scooters and rollerblades too. Do you want horse riders to pay rego as well? They're considered vehicles under thel law too.
Did you know new bicycles actually outsell new cars? Probably due to kids getting bikes and adults changing over their bikes more often or buying additional bikes for their collection. Either way, that makes for a lot of adult riders I'm sure.

I'd say alot of riders would ride a consistent line a reasonable distance from the kerb and obey traffic rules. I know I can usually ride within 50cm of the kerb - sometimes within a foot. A few riders would be troublesome. I rarely have troubles with cars - at 110kg most probably don't want to mess with me. I have had the occasional d!ckhead drive by and yell out "get off the road" or pass me too close. I had one driver pass me once so close I automatically took my hand of the handlebars because his left mirror was that close - because he was too lazy to change lanes a little - he did not alter his line one bit.

One thing I do avoid doing is passing all the cars at the lights. I stop behind the car I'm behind and won't move out the way for the car behind me until I'm rolling again. I've had one guy beep his horn at me because he thought I should move out of the way for him at a red light - despite me getting there first. There was no left turn arrow or anything - only straight ahead and I was in the left lane. I need a little speed to get my foot in the pedal and get the bike rolling in a stable line - something I can do and still beat most cars to the other side of the intersection at the same time.

[max^power]

Originally Posted by John McMaster

Also when pushies start obeying the road rules then and only then will you get my respect!!!!!

That will never happen, all road users can't obey the road rules either, simple thing to do, but even that is difficult for some. Driver education is probably the biggest problem here.

I'm not a big rider on the roads, i prefer the off road tracks like reserves etc. But sometimes, my training takes me out on the road, so thats when im on the road.

It's not just on the road cyclist cop abuse. I nearly punched out an old fart the other day for abusing me. :jab: He was walking his mongrels in the park, without a lead, or a dump bag, but because i was riding on the concrete path which was designed for bike riding, i was in the wrong. : I mean, are the people that attack cyclists on the road made from the same mold as this old bastard? Quite possibly!

i am with parawolf on this one.

[Charliewool]

Originally Posted by xe351

Obviously there needs to be more cyclists lanes provided, and if someone parks in the lane, a parking fine for them, but at the same time if a cyclist rides on the road where theres a lane available, fine them too. Mixing cars and bikes can be dangerous, take up swimming i reckon, you might drown, but you wont get hit by a car

More cyclist lanes???.... F+**ing kidding aren't you?
I pay $550 odd per year x 3 for car regos... they pay zilch...Clean em up I say... Bowl them! And the pric*ks think they own the road... Grrrrrrrrrr Talk about blood boiling.... Next we'll have "critical mass" enstolling their virtues on here! (for those not familiar with Critical Mass, try a google)..

[Charliewool]

Originally Posted by Kapn_Kiwi

It's really hard to ride a bike on a treadmill, trust me...

.

What if the bike (Casper riding it, of course) has a jet engine and the treadmill is going in reverse and..............

[Psycho Chicken]

Originally Posted by John McMaster

Also when pushies start obeying the road rules then and only then will you get my respect!!!!!

Have you seen me ride? No?

I saw some stupid drivers today, so I guess you must be one too.

[rodderz]

Charlie, the bike wouldnt take off!

[Hunter]

I haven't read this entire thread (but most of it), and here's my 2 cents:

IMO cyclists are their own worst enemy, as are pedestrians. Cyclists seem to think they have equal rights to be on the road as drivers... no you don't. You don't pay for the upkeep and construction of it and therefore you don't have the same rights as I, as a paying user, do. Some of you have stated "I pay car rego therefore I can ride a bike on it"... that doesn't mean anything - if you own two cars, that doesn't mean you pay one rego - you still have to pay two if you want to have two cars going on the road (either simultaneously or separately)! If you contribute to the road funds, then maybe I'll consider changing my mind but only if you don't make a nuisance of yourself and don't put yourself and vehicle drivers into bad situations!

Pedestrians are worse than cyclists I think... I swear if I had a dollar for the number of idiotic dickbrain pedestrians that have walked out in front of my car then abused me for stopping and giving them a "you fing idiot" look I would be wealthy. The stupidity and utter ignorance of pedestrians astounds me far more than any other group. When I'm in pedestrian mode I still think like a driver, I still plan my moves like a driver and above all KEEP MY BLOODY HEAD ON MY SHOULDERS and NOT UP IN THE CLOUDS.

[Psycho Chicken]

Originally Posted by Hunter

IMO cyclists are their own worst enemy, as are pedestrians. Cyclists seem to think they have equal rights to be on the road as drivers... no you don't. You don't pay for the upkeep and construction of it, so get off. Some of you have stated "I pay car rego therefore I can ride a bike on it"... that doesn't mean anything - if you own two cars, that doesn't mean you pay one rego - you still have to pay two if you want to have two cars going on the road (either simultaneously or separately)! If you contribute to the road funds, then maybe I'll consider changing my mind but only if you don't make a nuisance of yourself and don't put yourself and vehicle drivers into bad situations!

And of course the idiot drivers who have no reguard for the safety of cyclists obeying the law are alright.

Once again, the majority of people here prove it's alright to paint groups with the one brush, just as long as it's not ACA calling us all hoons.

And for the record, critical mass are a bunch of prats.

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by Psycho Chicken

And of course the idiot drivers who have no reguard for the safety of cyclists obeying the law are alright.

Once again, the majority of people here prove it's alright to paint groups with the one brush, just as long as it's not ACA calling us all hoons.

And for the record, critical mass are a bunch of prats.

I'm not saying all cyclists are the same... nor am I saying all drivers are good. Far from it. IMO a lot of drivers need their heads examined and their driving rights revoked but I also think a lot of cyclists either intentionally or unintetionally make driving near them extremely dangerous. There's idiots everywhere but I don't believe that cyclists have the same rights on the road itself as I do. Same as I don't believe that people blatantly flouting the law and driving around unregistered, uninsured and unlicensed have the same rights as regular, paying, insured and licensed drivers do.

Now, my father is far more sports-orientated than I am (cause I'm a lazy bastard) and used to be big on cycling to keep fit... until a carload of dickheads drove past him in an isolated area, drove off the road onto the shoulder and smacked my father on the back making him fall off his bike. He wasn't badly injured but he never rode a bike again thanks to these fools.

And When I was a lad I used to ride my bike everywhere and my parents drilled road safety into me - even sent me to those school-based bike safety things. That's probably part of why I am still here... however kids these days scare the crap out of me on their bikes, they ride all over the place, ride at night with no lights and wearing all black, dart out and expect 1.5 tonne cars to stop instantly, etc etc...

[Charliewool]

Originally Posted by Psycho Chicken

And for the record, critical mass are a bunch of prats.

"prats" being an understatement!...
Honestly, after the mahem I was caused one Friday, this side of the Burnley tunnel in Melbourne, I think it should be compulsary for all motorists to be issued with 10 packets of thumbtacks to turff out on the road!.. This lunatic fringe of ****ers must be stood up to!... We PAY for the roads!..We are tolled!.. Stick to the bloody cycle paths or go & join Greenpeace and save the whales or whatever... Roads are for vehicles.. Cars, B doubles, NOT friggin "wantabe Lance Armstrongs'

[Aeron]

I tell you what there a lot if people on here sounds awfully stupid. I cycle, as does my family. We obey the road rules and wether you like it or not, the road rules state that cyclists are entitle to a lane unless otherwise posted. The cyclist that doesn’t obey the road rules around cars will, in the end, find them selves in a hospital ward. But the car driver that doesn't obey the road rules around a cyclist will end up killing someone.
Rego for pushbikes is just a ridiculous idea. Car rego goes towards the upkeep of roads and fixing the damage done by cars etc. Im yet to see a cycle way that has needed to be resealed due to excess usage. My bike, with me on it, is $85Kg. Oooo, thats going to do a lot of damage to the road.
Last but not least the new M7 in Sydney. Bike are permitted to use the bike track or they can use the cycle lane, but as someone else said, there is that much shìt that builds up in that lane (glass, gravel etc...) that it cant be used safely. Here is a photo i took of the new M7. Its a gate that leads from the cycle way to the cycle lane. Bikes can use it, and it’s a hell of a lot flatter than the cycle path.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d1...y/DSC_2887.jpg

[merlin]

Originally Posted by John McMaster

Also when pushies start obeying the road rules then and only then will you get my respect!!!!!

Geez you could say the same thing about car drivers :

Its just a stupid argument that pushies should pay rego - as previously stated why penalise something that is helping reduce congestion, the environment and the health care system.

[biomechanic]

Originally Posted by charliewool

More cyclist lanes???.... F+**ing kidding aren't you?
I pay $550 odd per year x 3 for car regos... they pay zilch...Clean em up I say... Bowl them! And the pric*ks think they own the road... Grrrrrrrrrr Talk about blood boiling.... Next we'll have "critical mass" enstolling their virtues on here! (for those not familiar with Critical Mass, try a google)..

So by paying $1650 a year, you think you own the roads?

Tell you what, you even get close to bowling over the average cyclist, and you'll be paying more than that in repairs to your damaged panels. :

(P.S it's 'extolling' not 'enstolling')

[falcon91]

Been reading this thread for a while. My God there are some angry people out there. A person who rides a pushy is not an inconsiderate fool, same as a person who drives a car is not an inconsiderate fool. Idiots are just that, IDIOT'S, whether they put on a seatbelt, a M/Cycle helmet or a dodgy piece of Styrofoam. Branding all Cyclists or drivers the same is not only inaccurate but naive as hell!

[parawolf]

Originally Posted by charliewool

"prats" being an understatement!...
Honestly, after the mahem I was caused one Friday, this side of the Burnley tunnel in Melbourne, I think it should be compulsary for all motorists to be issued with 10 packets of thumbtacks to turff out on the road!.. This lunatic fringe of ****ers must be stood up to!... We PAY for the roads!..We are tolled!.. Stick to the bloody cycle paths or go & join Greenpeace and save the whales or whatever... Roads are for vehicles.. Cars, B doubles, NOT friggin "wantabe Lance Armstrongs'

Yes they are annoying people - and their mode of operation is also selfish.

However what you are talking about in retalliation is destruction of someone elses property.

Oh and if you are annoyed about paying tolls, and paying for your rego, get on a bike and ride.

In the mean time, put up with us, some of us just don't drive enough to justify a car in the driveway (however we have one to the household).

Do you want me to slag you off as a 'so and so' for parking in a clearway during peak hour? I have to pass 3 - 4 cars every morning that park in the peak hour clearway (which becomes the bike lane), also I have to put up with 'vehicles' (your definition because by vicroads, and vic police defination a bicycle is a vehicle) using the peak hour cycle lane as an extra driving lane. That results in cutting cyclists off, and making general life unsafe for other road users (including pedistrians getting off trams at tram stops).

Cyclists are vehicles - granted many don't obey the laws, however thats also the police fault for not being there to enforce them. I bet if there were a dozen cops on bikes in the CBD of Melbourne every day that could 'seriously' ride a bike, they could catch so many cycle couriers it wouldn't be funny.

[bathurst77]

Originally Posted by Aeron

... the new M7 in Sydney. Bike are permitted to use the bike track or they can use the cycle lane, but as someone else said, there is that much shìt that builds up in that lane (glass, gravel etc...) that it cant be used safely. -snip- Bikes can use it, and it’s a hell of a lot flatter than the cycle path.

SO cyclists whinge and moan that they need special bike tracks and bike roads.
When these roads are built at a cost of millions, they say "oooh they too hilly" and choose to ride on the expressway.

When a car or semi is trying to get on or off a ramp at 100kmh or more in poor visability, lookng for cars, believing the bikes are on a bike track and safely out of the way, they find one of thers lycra clad losers coasting along across the exit, and its teh car drivers fault.
This hppened to me and i nearly hit the bastard.

Cyclists please, if there is a bike road use it!
Im sorry if its hilly. Sometimes the car lane is a choked with traffic or has pot holes etc. I cant drive on footpath or on the other side of the road.

[Aeron]

Originally Posted by bathurst77

SO cyclists whinge and moan that they need special bike tracks and bike roads.
When these roads are built at a cost of millions, they say "oooh they too hilly" and choose to ride on the expressway.

When a car or semi is trying to get on or off a ramp at 100kmh or more in poor visability, lookng for cars, believing the bikes are on a bike track and safely out of the way, they find one of thers lycra clad losers coasting along across the exit, and its teh car drivers fault.

Lets get one thing straight.
There are bike riders. People that ride a bike (usually a Mountain Bike, hybrid or BMX) for a bit of fun. These are the people that use the M7 cycleway/path.
Then there are cyclists. They are bit more serious about cycling (Usually on road bikes). They don’t want their training routine interrupted by small children wobbling round on a bike track, or having to swerve in and out of people walking.
They are entitle to use the M7 and you don’t like it. I hate bus lanes and think they are a waste of space, but I’ll get over it.

[nugget378]

My biggest pet hate on the road is having to dodge my way around a cyclist and then at the next set of traffic lights they ride between the cars or on the footpath to pass the traffic, then leave before the lights go green forcing everyone else to pass them all over again, Cars should come with a mechanical arm that extended to give em a slap on the back of the head at just such times. : :nutsycuck

[pauljh74]

Originally Posted by bathurst77

SO cyclists whinge and moan that they need special bike tracks and bike roads.
When these roads are built at a cost of millions, they say "oooh they too hilly" and choose to ride on the expressway.

Most bike paths are taken over by wayward pedestrians. I've had more close calls on bike paths than roads. Then there's the people who "walk" their dogs - where the dog roams free and the owner has no effective control over their dog.

If you had the choice of 2 routes - one was bumpy, the path snakes all over the place, meaning a longer journey for no good reason, is up and down, dark at night and had overgrown bushes waiting to smack you in the head, or the smooth, direct lane next to a freeway, which would you prefer?

As for cyclists on freeways (the ones they can ride on legally), they shouldn't be riding straight across the exit at it's widest, they should either go a little bit down the off ramp and then cross at a 90 degree angle to minimise the distance of the crossing. That or exit and re-enter the freeway. If they cross at the widest point, there's a good chance they'll end up a hood ornament

[4.9 EF Futura]

Cyclists are a genuine pain in the ar*e and a nusiance on the road.... but they have every right to be there and deserve an appropriate amount of room and to be able to cycle in saftey.

Yes, i honestly believe that cars have more of a right to be on the road than pushbikes. But i dont let this prejudice affect my driving - we are required to give them room and that's what i'll do. I'll never get too close to them, i'll never yell at them or curse them. I make an effort to look out for them and to make sure i look for them in mirrors, blind spots etc. But i reserve the right to ИИИИИ about them

And the ones who wear spandex on their ride to work in the morning should be fined massive quantities of money. It's not the tour de france, poseur. It'd be nice to have more than 0.0005mm of lycra between me and your ***.

Down with spandex