Would you buy a diesel Falcon?

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by jpd80

After all, people started switching to diesel to save money and what did the oil companies do?
They jacked up the price of diesel, a previously cheap source of fuel for industry and farm use.

I wouldn't put it past oil companies and governments to make LPG almost as dear as petrol.

Diesel and Aviation Fuel are essentially from the same fractions of crude oil. Therefore when refining you make one at the expense of the other.

Prior to the GFC the airline business was going great guns and soaking up lots of avgas. The developing Asian economies have many diesel powered generators. Essentially a bidding war between them arose with only the Big Oil companies being the winners.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by OzJavelin

My sister-in-law has a 1.5Yo Mondeo diesel sedan .. it emits more visible smoke than an old 2-stroke motorbike I've seen in my weekly VJMC rides ..

Sometimes black smoke can be cause by a clogged air filter.

[phillyc]

I voted yes. I would buy one. We do several interstate trips per year. The diesel would be great.

But, I would prefer a turbo-petrol which is most likely our next purchase!

[jixel 78]

Originally Posted by Brazen

I personally think EcoBoost will be a sales disaster in this country, the likes of which we havnt seen since the 3.2litre EA.

They are spending all that money to fit the diesel in the Territory, just adding it Falcon ute would probably outsell the entire EcoBoost sedan range.

If I was Ford I would be aiming for parts harmonisation as much as possible between Territory and Falcon, having seperate engines is nonsense.

Ford AU are going to have to educate the buying public on the benefits of EcoBoost (which are many), but I dont think they have the skill level to achieve this. Instead they should tag-along on the Euros which have already done all the hard work on selling diesel as a mainstream engine.

Diesel Falcon will get sales especially among private buyers, LPG will get the fleets - its a perfect tow-pronged attack. It also increase the economies of scale of fitting the diesel to the Terriotry.

Abso $#@*en lutely.

[jixel 78]

Originally Posted by SteveJH

Depends how Durable Ecoboost turns out to be.

If they get driven like any other Falcon on the road read not very. BOOM.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by jixel 78

If they get driven like any other Falcon on the road read not very. BOOM.

Got proof?

[glavas]

what is wrong with you people. why cant we just all drive our petrol engines. im sick of all this junk i here about change and all that jazz its just not cricket and dont tell me cost is a factor because its not. if people can go out smoking and drinking and buying new iphones and tv's they can afford to put a little petrol in there cars. this world we live in today is just not one that seems to be worth living. ill be driving my v8 on petrol till the day i die hopefully that aint to much longer with the way things are going.

driving use to be the best past time. just going out for a nice relaxing cruise but with all this speed cameras and useless cars on our roads its just become a hassle.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by glavas

what is wrong with you people. why cant we just all drive our petrol engines. im sick of all this junk i here about change and all that jazz its just not cricket and dont tell me cost is a factor because its not. if people can go out smoking and drinking and buying new iphones and tv's they can afford to put a little petrol in there cars. this world we live in today is just not one that seems to be worth living. ill be driving my v8 on petrol till the day i die hopefully that aint to much longer with the way things are going.

driving use to be the best past time. just going out for a nice relaxing cruise but with all this speed cameras and useless cars on our roads its just become a hassle.

WTF?
I assume you're aware petrol is a finite resource.
There is nothing wrong with finding alternative fuels, researching and developing more efficient combustion engines and researching a more sustainable fuel once petrol does become too expensive for the general public.
You can stay in the stone age but I welcome advances in vehicle technology that make driving even more fun and keep us on the roads longer.

[glavas]

Originally Posted by Wretched

WTF?
I assume you're aware petrol is a finite resource.
There is nothing wrong with finding alternative fuels, researching and developing more efficient combustion engines and researching a more sustainable fuel once petrol does become too expensive for the general public.
You can stay in the stone age but I welcome advances in vehicle technology that make driving even more fun and keep us on the roads longer.

running out???? bull turkey thats just what they want you to think mate. fuel wont run out for hundreds of years maybe longer dont let them control you. set ya self free from there invisible handcuffs.

[chevypower]

The thing is, yes it is finite, and yes there is plenty left. But it's not like there is a big fuel pump just to get it all out with a clear indication of how empty the gas tank is. "Oh no, the gauge shows we only have a 1/4 tank left for the whole world!" and unlike at the petrol station, it does not come out as effortlessly as it did when it was a full tank.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by glavas

running out???? bull turkey thats just what they want you to think mate. fuel wont run out for hundreds of years maybe longer dont let them control you. set ya self free from there invisible handcuffs.

I said it is a finite resource, meaning it won't be around forever.
The issues now are they are struggling to find easy areas to dig it out. This drives the cost of getting it up.

What is the harm in finding alternative fueled cars?? What is the problem with more efficient but still enjoyable engines?

[glavas]

Originally Posted by Wretched

I said it is a finite resource, meaning it won't be around forever.
The issues now are they are struggling to find easy areas to dig it out. This drives the cost of getting it up.

What is the harm in finding alternative fueled cars?? What is the problem with more efficient but still enjoyable engines?

the problem is that the internal combustion engine is the best thing to happen to man. dont change what is not broken. i just paid 80$ for bp's finest petrol this morning. nothing like a full tank.

who cares if the price goes up a bit. people want quality and thats what petrol is!!!!!!!!!! why substitute something that is better quality then the rest. will all be long dead by the time it runs out so lets enjoy while we still can.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by glavas

the problem is that the internal combustion engine is the best thing to happen to man. dont change what is not broken. i just paid 80$ for bp's finest petrol this morning. nothing like a full tank.

The horse and cart worked fine too....

What is being discussed here is alternative fuels, in this case diesel which last time I checked was using a combustion engine. It has been refined over the years and is now a viable alternative to the petrol engine for passenger vehicles. Which is what I asked before, what is wrong with furthering our research into fuels other than petrol?

$80 now may be more in a few years. If we can locate a better and more abundant fuel at a cheaper cost I see now problem.

[glavas]

were at the pinnacle now we can only go backwards.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by glavas

were at the pinnacle now we can only go backwards.

in your opinion.

[prydey]

i thought this was about diesel?? isn't that a crude oil based product also, or a by product of the refining process?

diesel isn't really an alternative fuel.

[chevypower]

http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2010/07...ax-diesel.html
This stock diesel now accelerates a single cab Silverado from 0-100km/h in 5.8 seconds! Stick that in a sports car!

[vanman_75]

getting sick of people going off topic ,ruining good threads .

original question -would you buy a diesel falcon ...not what are the worlds oil reserves ffs.

me heck yes i buy a car for its drivability and purpose the falcon is a brilliant car ,and with a performance diesel ( not 300 kw but torquey and good on juice ) it will be a very good vehicle to add to the already great line up, that well and truely has the performance people covered.

they price a diesel right with low sevens fuel economy 150-200 kws i would think you would see a big sales winner ,just my opinion .the question lies more in if and when for it to be successfull .

[stev3n]

I sat down recently (12 months ago, but little has changed) and did some maths comparing landcruiser 200 series petrol v diesel.
Diesel cruiser $10000 dearer than petrol. You needed to do 300 000km before the diesel could re-coup its initial purchase price. Without taking servicing into account.

Servicing Petrol cruiser $150
Servicing Diesel cruiser $250 - $850 depending on service interval.
Diesels are cheap to put fuel in, but much dearer to maintain.

One thing diesels have over petrols is their higher re-sale value, but you have already paid the premium when you drove away from the dealer.

Would I buy a diesel falcon? Only after I had taken the time to do the sums .

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by stev3n

I sat down recently (12 months ago, but little has changed) and did some maths comparing landcruiser 200 series petrol v diesel.
Diesel cruiser $10000 dearer than petrol. You needed to do 300 000km before the diesel could re-coup its initial purchase price. Without taking servicing into account.

Servicing Petrol cruiser $150
Servicing Diesel cruiser $250 - $850 depending on service interval.
Diesels are cheap to put fuel in, but much dearer to maintain.

One thing diesels have over petrols is their higher re-sale value, but you have already paid the premium when you drove away from the dealer.

Would I buy a diesel falcon? Only after I had taken the time to do the sums .

I think there is also some things to take into account apart from maths. I know if I have a fuel-guzzling car I will not enjoy driving it as much if its costing me a fortune to run. I would semi-cringe taking a petrol Cruiser on a long trip knowing how much fuel it will use, hence I would probably not enjoy it as much as having a diesel.

Nothing more depressing than going for a sunday drive and watching the tank empty very quickly, this feeling will last all through the ownership well after I have forgotten the initial purchase price!

Also I hate filling the car at petrol stations, my wife and I have this unspoken agreement that I fill both cars every week, if I can stretch that out to every fortnight then I would be much happier haha.

[Martyvan]

Also remember that toyota charge a generally crazy premium for diesel. My Pajero diesel was $1000 more than petrol. Servicing is expensive but it the longer scheme of things it has likely already paid itself off. A $1000 to $2000 premium in falcon/territory will make the market take notice.

[Romulus]

Diesel powered vehicles are gaining popularity by the minute. One needs only look at the amount of diesel powered Japanese and Korean manufactured vehicles being offered on sale. They are producing power outputs equivelant to their petrol powered conterparts but with 50% more torque and significantly less fuel consumption.

If Ford were smart (as suggested by Brazen) they would have a diesel engine available in the Falcon ute as well. Infact, there should be a diesel engine option across the Falcon and Territory range. a 3.0l V6 TDI engine would be perfect. I believe diesel ute sales alone would probably outsell the entire Territory sales.

[SteveJH]

Originally Posted by GT Falcon

Diesel powered vehicles are gaining popularity by the minute. One needs only look at the amount of diesel powered Japanese and Korean manufactured vehicles being offered on sale. They are producing power outputs equivelant to their petrol powered conterparts but with 50% more torque and significantly less fuel consumption.

If Ford were smart (as suggested by Brazen) they would have a diesel engine available in the Falcon ute as well. Infact, there should be a diesel engine option across the Falcon and Territory range. a 3.0l V6 TDI engine would be perfect. I believe diesel ute sales alone would probably outsell the entire Territory sales.

Of course if their engineers ever got bored they could always build an I6 diesel.....

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by SteveJH

Of course if their engineers ever got bored they could always build an I6 diesel.....

I remember this being mentioned once, there are a few people on this forum who probably know of a program or two within Ford which investigated this.

Meanwhile on caradvice their big Skoda Superb diesel auto wagon averaged 6.1l per 100km on the test including suburban driving, impressive.

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by GT Falcon

If Ford were smart (as suggested by Brazen) they would have a diesel engine available in the Falcon ute as well. Infact, there should be a diesel engine option across the Falcon and Territory range. a 3.0l V6 TDI engine would be perfect. I believe diesel ute sales alone would probably outsell the entire Territory sales.

Diesel in the Falcon Ute would be a real BIG winner I would think. Put it in an RTV and hello to plenty of sales.

Having it in the Ute would then amortise the cost to put it into the Sedan.

[Brazen]

thinking about this diesel debate I think it worth talking about the positives of Ford AU at the moment.

With diesel going into the Territory, these diesel engines are being sent from halfway across the globe to be delivered to Broadmeadows within 3 feet of Falcons on the assembly line... this gives Ford a fantastic chance to add diesels eventually if the market demand it (which I think it already is).

Ecoboost - one of the best developments in petrol techonology in years is being put into Falcons next year.

Liquid injection LPG is being put into the Falcon for the first time. LPG is abundant in Australia and it has a bright future in this country with Ford AU at the forefront of exploiting this fuel.

Its truly amazing we can be debating the benefits of diesel and there is a chance it could actually happen amongst all these other developments.

Bloody exciting time to be a Ford fan.

[naddis01]

Originally Posted by GT Falcon

Diesel powered vehicles are gaining popularity by the minute. One needs only look at the amount of diesel powered Japanese and Korean manufactured vehicles being offered on sale. They are producing power outputs equivelant to their petrol powered conterparts but with 50% more torque and significantly less fuel consumption.

In the Mazda 6 the diesel actually makes more power (a whole 7kW) than the petrol and almost double the torque. The only thing holding it back in the Mazda 6 is it is a manual only option at this stage. Until 2012 anyway.

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by Brazen

thinking about this diesel debate I think it worth talking about the positives of Ford AU at the moment.

With diesel going into the Territory, these diesel engines are being sent from halfway across the globe to be delivered to Broadmeadows within 3 feet of Falcons on the assembly line... this gives Ford a fantastic chance to add diesels eventually if the market demand it (which I think it already is).

Ecoboost - one of the best developments in petrol technology in years is being put into Falcons next year.

Liquid injection LPG is being put into the Falcon for the first time. LPG is abundant in Australia and it has a bright future in this country with Ford AU at the forefront of exploiting this fuel.

Its truly amazing we can debating the benefits of diesel and there is a chance it could actually happen amongst all these other developments.

Bloody exciting time to be a Ford fan.

+1 and I hope that the market takes to these initiatives. I believe they will.

[SteveJH]

I'm surprised they did Ecoboost rather then Diesel for the falcon. Because they've just added two more engines to the line up rather then one.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by SteveJH

I'm surprised they did Ecoboost rather then Diesel for the falcon. Because they've just added two more engines to the line up rather then one.

You and me both SteveJh, however the government gave significant Green Car funding which probably made the EcoBoost viable.

Also as sad as it is to think about, if the I6 is ever replaced, the EcoBoost in my opinion is the best replacement rather than the 3.7 V6. I think the EcoBoost will sell very crap alongside the I6 - however even a schmuck like me realises this type of technology is the future and Ford probably thinks its worthwhile getting the engine established in the marketplace sooner rather than later.