Commodore to be built overseas after 2014

[Watto_Cobra]

Originally Posted by Pub247

Shhh let me troll in peace...

Seriously though i see it all the time people on internet telling people how much better they are or that others are lazy yet they're at work spending most of the time on the internet.

I work bloody hard and i dont get paid enough for what i do considering im qualified tradesman. If theres lazy people at your work maybe you should point them out to management

Actually, I agree. Looking back at some posters times (on forums in general, not really here) it seems they are always online.

Sounds like you're in a similar position to me. I do point the worst out to higher management, sometimes something happens, sometimes not. I actually don't mind my job, except for the leading hand part of it. No one wants to be painted as a dobber.

Originally Posted by b0son

Does that really surprise you?

It never ceases to amaze me how little people care about their ongoing employment, acting as if their boss owes them a living. A nation of princesses.

I agree. I have many stories, as most on here would, but I'm getting off topic.

IF.. the Zeta platform is dumped, what will we end up with? Cruze as the mainstream model? or will GM attempt to sell us the Malibu or Impala?

[joolz]

Originally Posted by Watto_Cobra

The bludgers I see everyday at my work make me feel sick..

Where as i worked for 8 1/2 years with a big USA company supplying OEM parts to Ford doing the work of almost 3 people i eventually broke down (started from machine operator and worked hard to get to 1 down from Quality manager). I had to leave. Watto_ Cobra any jobs in Melbourne!

[Watto_Cobra]

Originally Posted by joolz

Where as i worked for 8 1/2 years with a big USA company supplying OEM parts to Ford doing the work of almost 3 people i eventually broke down (started from machine operator and worked hard to get to 1 down from Quality manager). I had to leave. Watto_ Cobra any jobs in Melbourne!

PM sent due to off topic-ness

[Nikked]

Motor Trend has reported GM will start selling Alpha platform based vehicles in 2014, which will include the new Cadillac ATS, the third generation Cadillac CTS, and the 6th generation 2015 Chevrolet Camaro. The platform is expected to be smaller, lighter and less costly than the current Zeta platform it is replacing.[3]

I know its only of wiki, but that date....

[SSVPom]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Interesting, as Cadillacs are not normally RHD, this is unreleased ATS:

imageimage

The CTS is RHD for Europe, and sold in the UK. This is what I have seen I'm sure of it!

[Luke Plaizier]

What the hell?

Why aren't APESMA campaigning the same for the Falcon and Territory? APESMA must be a Holden funded insititution.....

APESMA 'Save Our Commodore' Campaign


Lukeyson

[Powdered Toast Man]

Originally Posted by Luke Plaizier

What the hell?

Why aren't APESMA campaigning the same for the Falcon and Territory? APESMA must be a Holden funded insititution.....

APESMA 'Save Our Commodore' Campaign


Lukeyson

Nope they are a member funded organisation. I know as I'm a funder

[2011G6E]

Ahh, memories...I remember the wailing and nashing of teeth when the Kingswood was dropped from the lineup. "The sky is falling"..."we're all DOOOOOOMED", and so-on.

Then people realised what a good car the Commodore was...it handled! It stopped! It was comfortable and reliable! It wasn't so bad...in fact they liked it and wondered what they ever saw in the old dunger it replaced. People change, even if they need a gentle nudge to get them to accept something more modern than what they are used to.

Holden has been doing it with the Cruise...you almost see more adverts for it than for the Commodore now. Ford has, to a much lesser extent, been doing it with thier smaller cars too. The Mondeo would be the equivelant over the Falcon, but Ford hardly advertises the Falcon anyway, so it's hard to make a comparison.

It's all happened before, it will all happen again. The Falcon name plate is unusual in that it has persisted over different generations of car that are all very different from one another in appearance. Holden and Valiant did it too, but gave each different shape a new name or model designation, not an actual name for each one (Valiant had Ranger, Regal, and so-on, but they were just trim levels, not a name for the entire range, they were all just "Valiant sedans"). When "Kingswood" came along, they finally started to carry the name over to each new model, thought they were really facelifts and not completely different cars. When Commodore came, it was a revelation, something completely new and unusual in that it was obviously European based.

The "Falcon" name plate has lasted for 51 years, the "Commodore" one for 33 years. That's an awful long time in the motoring world. The Kingswood nameplate was only around for aroind 13 years, and as I said, people were crying in the streets, jumping from tall buildings, and rending thier clothes at the demise of it. Well...not quite, but blood near that if you remember the times...
Someone mentioned that Falcons now don't usually have a name on them unless they're base models that usually only fleet buyers get anyway...perhaps getting people used to the idea of a "Ford Car" and not neccisarily a "Ford Falcon Car".

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Luke Plaizier

What the hell?

Why aren't APESMA campaigning the same for the Falcon and Territory? APESMA must be a Holden funded insititution.....

APESMA 'Save Our Commodore' Campaign


Lukeyson

I made a comment there asking why don't they have a Save the Falcon campaign, and that if they aren't going to support all of the automotive manufacturers then they shouldn't do it all. Others should too.

Sick of the Holden bias of this country.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by SSVPom

The CTS is RHD for Europe, and sold in the UK. This is what I have seen I'm sure of it!

Edit,

OK, I see CTS is sold RHD in UK,
I too suspect this is what was seen as Sigma CTS is smaller than Commodore..
Alpha based ATS would make a great Torana for Australia, hope they don't do that.....

[2011G6E]

I think Holden has, very successfully, been able to "distance itself" from Chevrolet and General Motors in the states, simply by giving itself a different name. Ford has always found it very hard to do this, as it has the same name as "that American car company".

Deep down people might realise (or they might not) that Holden is General Motors Holden, but that name "Holden" has always meant "Australian", and it's been an awful long time since I've seen them call themselves "GMH" in advertising...they're just "Holden".
"Ford", in most peopels minds, has always meant "Part of the USA".

That's not bagging Ford, it's just a simple statement of fact in how they've placed themselves in the market.

[xtremerus]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

I think Holden has, very successfully, been able to "distance itself" from Chevrolet and General Motors in the states, simply by giving itself a different name. Ford has always found it very hard to do this, as it has the same name as "that American car company".

Deep down people might realise (or they might not) that Holden is General Motors Holden, but that name "Holden" has always meant "Australian", and it's been an awful long time since I've seen them call themselves "GMH" in advertising...they're just "Holden".
"Ford", in most peopels minds, has always meant "Part of the USA".

That's not bagging Ford, it's just a simple statement of fact in how they've placed themselves in the market.

Yes. Pontiac, not Holden

[fmc351]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

I think Holden has, very successfully, been able to "distance itself" from Chevrolet and General Motors in the states, simply by giving itself a different name. Ford has always found it very hard to do this, as it has the same name as "that American car company".

Deep down people might realise (or they might not) that Holden is General Motors Holden, but that name "Holden" has always meant "Australian", and it's been an awful long time since I've seen them call themselves "GMH" in advertising...they're just "Holden".
"Ford", in most peopels minds, has always meant "Part of the USA".

That's not bagging Ford, it's just a simple statement of fact in how they've placed themselves in the market.

Its true IMO too. But add in those passed down connections, they started as Aussie contractors to any maker that wanted to use its services. I seem to recall they made leather interiors and other stuff for all manner of brands in all manner of countries in the very early days, pre-1920's etc.

When youre raised on Holdens, that kind of stuff is hard to shrug off. Add in that between the folks that argue this stuff (lets face it, the average motorist couldnt care what brand it is, its more the enthusiast that gets into it), wouldnt know what they were talking about when it comes to superior cars. And thats on both sides of the two car fence. Half of them think the V8 supercars are the real deal as found in showrooms across Aus.

The media know who butters their bread, the reader, and for the most part that Aussie thing is well and truly entrenched. So feeding them a steady diet of what they want to hear sells copy.

Theres a lot too it, and thats part of why it will never be resolved.

[jpd80]

Yes, Holden is very quick to tell anyone who will listen that they actually sold something like 40,000 Pontiac G8s
The only down side is that they actually wrote off around $200 million in loses or about $5,000/car...
If Caprice PPV doesn't start firing soon, they will be writing off about the same capital amount...

[Nikked]

It could be quite possible that there will be a change, and the unions would have got wind of this. Now, job security is a national issue now, so the unions have brought it up whilst there is a focus...for all we know they might have knowen for a while what is due in the future for GM-H.

You have to take it all in with a broad mind, you can understand completely if GM-H want to deny it completely, they still want to sell cars.

Even on a more crazy tin-foil style, GM-H could have plated a seed to get the unions fearing for there job in hope for puplic pity, and pressure for the government to increase grants for the motor industry.

In all seriousness though, given that the Alpha platform can be built in FWD AWD and RWD, can hold 4cyl, V6 and V8 drivetrains, and is lighter and can be taylored to both medium and large car's...it can't be a coinsedance that it is due to be implemented in 2014.

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by fmc351

Its true IMO too. But add in those passed down connections, they started as Aussie contractors to any maker that wanted to use its services. I seem to recall they made leather interiors and other stuff for all manner of brands in all manner of countries in the very early days, pre-1920's etc.

They used to make motor bodies for a lot of makers who would ship in the chassis and running gear...they'd have a little oval enameled badge on the side in front side panels of the front doors saying "Body By Holden", with the little lion with his foot on a rock. I have one of these badges, I think off a mid-thirties Pontiac.

Ford always made thier own bodies, but from the earliest days they were "Ford", an Australian division of that Yank company.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Ford always made thier own bodies, but from the earliest days they were "Ford", an Australian division of that Yank company.

That was quite strangely administered by Ford Canada...

[Ford_The_Win]

Originally Posted by jpd80

That was quite strangely administered by Ford Canada...

That was because import tariffs and other restrictions at the time were much lower for other Commonwealth nations, as opposed to the USA which isn't in the Commonwealth. Or something along those lines.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

I think Holden has, very successfully, been able to "distance itself" from Chevrolet and General Motors in the states, simply by giving itself a different name. Ford has always found it very hard to do this, as it has the same name as "that American car company".

I think Holden has been indulging in Orwellian double-think for so many years they actually take it as truth. A few years ago I had a fascinating exchange with a PR lady from Holden taking them to task for porkies on their website claiming to be the first to introduce this and that. In most cases they were beaten by BMC (Australia), e.g. disc brakes, seat belts, radial ply tyres, luxury model with leather etc (Austin 1800 in particular). Holden ("General Motors-Holden" to be exact) usually followed these 1960s advances in knee-jerk fashion a year or two later.

Both companies were local manufacturers owned by locally-incorporated public companies whose shares were held by overseas corporations, so were on the same footing.

After consulting her superiors the PR lady's breathtaking response was that Holden was an Australian company and BMC was a British company therefore Holden was the first "Australian" manufacturer to introduce these innovations! I responded with the above facts but never heard from her again. For all I know the claims are still on Holden's website.

Holden has always been good at the bull factor.

[jpd80]

This is just Holden doing due diligence on its RWD business plan,
just like Ford is doing at the moment, neither car maker really wants
to be the first to give up a very lucrative share of the large car market
by ceding a huge portion to a competitor by switching to a FWD replacement.
Conversely, neither wants to miss out on all the high tech and fuel efficiency of FWD..

[robertjp]

did anyone see the lack of comments in Carsguide about this, how strange.

[2011G6E]

Holden was always "General Motors - Holden", with that "pause" in the middle. This made it quite clear they were merely a division of General Motors, jus like Chevrolet, Buick, Pontiac, Cadillac, etc. Then they merged it into "General Motors Holden", then "GMH", then just "Holden", pretending that the "General Motors" part didn't exist. Cleverly done, and something Ford simply cannot do with thier branding.

Originally Posted by jpd80

This is just Holden doing due diligence on its RWD business plan,
just like Ford is doing at the moment, neither car maker really wants
to be the first to give up a very lucrative share of the large car market
by ceding a huge portion to a competitor by switching to a FWD replacement.
Conversely, neither wants to miss out on all the high tech and fuel efficiency of FWD..

Exactly right. They both know that the day will come, and probably soonish, but neither wants to be the first to jump until they think they have can somehow have a clear market advantage over the other guy by doing so. It's been quite accurately said that the vast majority of motorists don't know and couldn't care which end is doing the driving...gone are the days of front wheel drives being torque-steering, oddly-styled, poorly packaged smaller cars. Laugh all you want at the Aurion and Camry, but they sell like hot cakes and are a good drive, especially wit the 200kw V6 in the Aurion...it could certainly use some spiffing up to make it a bit more liveable and engaging inside, but there's nothing wrong with it as a car. The simple fact is that most motorists don't drive around looking for opportunities to spin the back wheels or hang the tail out, so rear wheel drive simply doesn't matter all that much.
The first question people ask isn't "is it front or rear wheel drive", but rather they ask about trade in, economy, safety, reliability, servicing costs, etc. I love rear-drivers as much as the next guy...when I bought our '82 Celica I had some requirements for the car we were looking for...four cylinder, air con, five speed manual, two door, RWD, and something "interesting". I could have realistically bought an old VW Golf GTi if I could have found one with a price I could afford and been perfectly happy, but I wanted an old rear wheel driver...for some reason I can't adequately explain.

But I'm in the minority...maybe not on this forum, but in real life I am. I've mentioned before that when we took our G6E in for it's first service, they loaned us a Mondeo diesel auto for the day...and honestly if we had test driven one of those first before the Falcon, we'd have something like a Titanium diesel sitting in the driveway.

Ford and Holden do indeed like thier big cars...but they probably also think the time is right to swap driving ends and they're testing the waters to see what the public reaction is to stories like "Are the Falcons days numbered?", and "Commodore design to cease after 2014?"... if no one but a few motoring journalists or a small number of enthusiasts kicks up a stink, they'll be ver interested indeed.

[jpd80]

What would be of concern to US chiefs is the reduction in mMustang sales, they're just under 5,000.
So I don't think the spot light is on Australia nearly as much as the media would have us believe.

[Ford_The_Win]

Originally Posted by jpd80

What would be of concern to US chiefs is the reduction in mMustang sales, they're just under 5,000.

Wow, is that really all they're selling? That's not good.

[theboxmike]

Man the Holden Bias in the country is astounding.

I remember reading a Zoo Mag (yes i know) car section and they had the new FPV GS! at 335 kw. Yet right next to it they had the "HOLDEN GTS" at 375 KW Great research there.

Anyways most of the bogan Australians like Holden to much. It won't happen.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

What would be of concern to US chiefs is the reduction in mMustang sales, they're just under 5,000.
So I don't think the spot light is on Australia nearly as much as the media would have us believe.

Must be why the are planning to introduce a new "screaming chicken", a modern day replacement for the 80's Mustang SVO turbo 2.3.

Ive heard they are going to fit an ecoboost 4. If fuel economy is costing them sales this would be a way to offer an improvement, just like Ford is doing with ecoboost Falcon.

Taurus sales aren't real high either, but Fusion sells over 17,000 a month and F series sells a whopping 52,000 a month. More than FoA would probably build in a year.

[2011G6E]

The staggering sales of those rediculous trucks the Yanks love (F-trucks, the massive Chev ones as well) comes down to one simple fact: They're classed as trucks, and not passenger vehicles, so they are taxed way lower, and don't have to pass emissions tests.

Price? I saw an advert for a Chev truck on another website...a huge twin cab, four wheel drive, base model V8...for only $23,900 drive away...no wonder the place is infested with the lumbering fuel-gulping great monstrosities...

[z80]

IMHO...You will know when Holden are seriously dumping the commodore platform when they dump the production of the station wagon in favour of an SUV platform.

[z80]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

..... It's been quite accurately said that the vast majority of motorists don't know and couldn't care which end is doing the driving...gone are the days of front wheel drives being torque-steering, oddly-styled, poorly packaged smaller cars. ....

The differences between modern FWD and RWD cars can be summarised thus according to my 18 year old P plater son.

"In a FWD car when you lose control all you see is the tree coming at you"

versus

"in a RWD car when you lose control you can't see the tree coming at you"


Pretty aptly put me thinks........

[svo supporter]

Originally Posted by z80

IMHO...You will know when Holden are seriously dumping the commodore platform when they dump the production of the station wagon in favour of an SUV platform.

Haven't seen the AWD Commodores yet? Put a VZ wagon on an AWD platform. (I think they were called cross 6 or 8) So I think you're a little out of date with this comment. (No offense intended towards you either .)