Talk me out of buying a Commodore.

[RavenLS1]

Originally Posted by t2te50

12.5 1/4 mile for 5,000K? Thats . Mate blokes on this forum with ED xr8 sprint's with stinker cams run 13 flat. 5.0L!!!!!!!!!!!
Supercharge that same motor (1 bar) and you'll run mid 10's. Mustangs are 300kg lighter and run low 9's with these kind of setups in the states.

Mate when did ED's come into this?or mustangs for that matter????13's with a cam , nice, my car's unopened, if i put a cam in and strip some weight i'll have low 11's.the fastest unopened ls1 runs 11 flat.

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Pfft...what a crock of .... from some!
The guys got enough money to buy a VX SS not a BA/F XR6T.
Yeah the Xr6T will go better with only 3K thrown at it but add that 3K to the extra 10K it'll cost him to buy in the first place and it's adding up.
He said he wants to mod it in future so as Raven said, you can get the LS1 moving for reasonable money infact if he spent the extra 13K that the XR6T would cost him modded on a VX Calais he could wack a manual behind it and have plenty left for engine mods, that solves the trans woes plus he'll have full options and lots of gadgets to play with.

As for the TE/S50 argument, i believe they are Tickford vehicles, how do they compare to a VX GTS300 by HSV?
It's hardly fair to compare a factory SS with a tickled FTE built car yeah.

And what ever happened to the old saying "THERES NO SUBSTITUTE FOR DISPLACEMENT"? oh yeah they hung a ricer hairdryer off a 4.0l i6

exactly!

[LeadFoot81]

I think alot of guys are going off topic, he wants a good looking daily that can handle its own...not a dragstrip beast. I'll be interested to see what you end up buying Vippin, even if its in 6 months etc

[irlewy86]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

And what ever happened to the old saying "THERES NO SUBSTITUTE FOR DISPLACEMENT"? oh yeah they hung a ricer hairdryer off a 4.0l i6

At least they hung it off a large capacity 6.

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by VippiN

Why SHOULDN'T I buy a VX GenIII SS Commodore?

Please, talk me out of it.

Well, it doesn't have the safety item appearing in my Sig, the nearest alternative is Hella Part Number; 2901 at $76-00!! :-)

http://db.hella.com.au/cgi-bin/catal...ew&flmaint=151

Whilst Holden do sell a version, it is constructed to the lesser performance quality AS3790 and US standard. Basically rubbish!

[VippiN]

Originally Posted by The_Fantastic_Ford

I think alot of guys are going off topic, he wants a good looking daily that can handle its own...not a dragstrip beast. I'll be interested to see what you end up buying Vippin, even if its in 6 months etc

Not wrong about people going off topic!

I'll try and remember to update this post, but hey if I do end up buying an XR6T you'll probably see me all over the boards.

All depends on finances and a little luck.

[DBourne]

question: Talk me out of buying a Commodore.
answer: no gary no?

[zigzagnt]

i know this won't be popular,but why do we have to talk you out of it
buy whatever you want IMHO

[Aeron]

Originally Posted by VippiN

Jeez mate you've got both?

Ok, hypothetical. New law comes in, you may only own one car. Which do you give up and why?

Well, the SS is basically my track car so I'd just cancel the registration on it and trailer it to the track. But, if that wasn't possible, I’d keep the XR6T and sell the SS.

[Aeron]

Originally Posted by Keepleft

Well, it doesn't have the safety item appearing in my Sig, the nearest alternative is Hella Part Number; 2901 at $76-00!! :-)

http://db.hella.com.au/cgi-bin/catal...ew&flmaint=151

Whilst Holden do sell a version, it is constructed to the lesser performance quality AS3790 and US standard. Basically rubbish!

I have one out of a Volvo in the boot of my XR6T, just in case...

[xf_vanner]

I've got an au3 xr8 putting out roughly 270kw never been happier with a car, its got leather interior, 6 stacker cd player, cup holders, sunglass holder & not bad for 20k, but at the end of the day its up to what you feel comfortable in.

[MightyXR6Turbo]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Pfft...what a crock of .... from some!
The guys got enough money to buy a VX SS not a BA/F XR6T.
Yeah the Xr6T will go better with only 3K thrown at it but add that 3K to the extra 10K it'll cost him to buy in the first place and it's adding up.
He said he wants to mod it in future so as Raven said, you can get the LS1 moving for reasonable money infact if he spent the extra 13K that the XR6T would cost him modded on a VX Calais he could wack a manual behind it and have plenty left for engine mods, that solves the trans woes plus he'll have full options and lots of gadgets to play with.

As has been mentioned, Vippin is in SA, I'm in SA, so my comments on price are based on SA. In SA there are lots and lots of XR6T's in the exact same price range as a VX SS so if he can afford a VX SS he can afford an XR6T. Do some research before you jump to these conclusions.

And it would also pay to read the initial post before shooting your mouth off, Vippin said that he wants an automatic, and is not interested in a manual so there'd be no manual conversions there.

As for the "No replacement for displacement", I think those days were dusted by the XR6T, a few simple mods can make it easily streetable and able to have more power and torque than any 300rwkW GenIII to step up.

[LeadFoot81]

Hmmm if hes goin auto, then Id go the 6T, youll rip everyone a new @#$hole with driveability to boot. But nothin pulls quite like an 8 man. Go the Turbine Vippin, (over the ss) Ill give one a go when the time comes to replace the XR (not for a long time yet)

[SSBUB]

BUY ONE!

ok im biased I own one. But lets get a few things straight:

1) If it were going to have piston slap or oil consumption issues it would have been found out by now. Chances are you going to get into one with moderate km's on the dash already - piston slap etc is usually find out and rectified early on in the engines life. Plus i do believe the whole gen 3 being an oil guzzlin hoe is blown out of proportion. The way some people carry on it happened to ALL ls1's.

2) They ARE NOT the new vn 5 lita as some homie put it.

3) There is nothing bad about the auto box when it is edited. Get a tune mate, they arent expenive and will change any weaknesses you feel the box has. Who knows you might not think the box is such a bad thing to begin with.

4) Whoever made that recal list, that was for VT's not for VX's. Plus we could all rattle of recalls for both sides.

5) Buying an AU xr8 instead of a vx ss? Are you crazy? Engine is nowhere near as good nor is the visual appeal. But I am in a ford forum so im not going to argue this point.

Look mate the VX SS is the last of the smooth lined cars before it went all square assed with the VY's. I love the look of them.


Attached are some pics of my car. All that has been done to it is extractors, opened cats, exhaust, otr cai, custom tune. She pulls about 230rwkw and happily chirps gears. It doesnt cost alot to get some great peformance out of the ls1 engine, even the most hardcore ford fan cant deny that.

However i will take my red blinkers off and say that the XR6T is a nice car also. And if you think there are alot of VX SS's around now, then theres twice as many xr6t's many with just the turbo badge on plain xr6's.

[LeadFoot81]

Originally Posted by SSBUB

5) Buying an AU xr8 instead of a vx ss? Are you crazy? Engine is nowhere near as good nor is the visual appeal. But I am in a ford forum so im not going to argue this point.

However i will take my red blinkers off and say that the XR6T is a nice car also. And if you think there are alot of VX SS's around now, then theres twice as many xr6t's many with just the turbo badge on plain xr6's.

A few good points you make there SSBUB, nice to see the opinion of someone who actually owns an SS.

The LS1 may be a great engine, but what about the driving dynamics vs the XR? People are so focussed solely on how many kWs a car makes! ffs!

The AU XR is the last of the uniqe looking sports models before Ford and Holden went all square and plain with the BA/VY/VE. I love the look of them!

Re visual appeal, the XR8 looks nothing like the Forte, where the SS is an exec with a bodykit (as are the BA XRs) Youd be the one whos CRAZY to argue that visually an AU XR hasnt got wow factor, hence the reason you wont argue that point! Come on, youve got to admit they certainly stand out in the crowd.

There are just as many wannabe-SS-execs out there as there are wannabe-XR6T-XRs, just a result of both cars popularity.

[SSBUB]

you make good points, the xr6t has proven to be a winner, hence i reccomend he test drive both.
The SS may look something like an executive with a spoiler kit, but the differences go to dash colours, ride height, suspension, engine!! etc etc similar to the ford. But i dunno, i just couldnt pick any AU series over a VX SS unless it was a TE50 or something like that. Stock AUxr8 vs Stock VX SS, the SS wins hands down imo.
As for the driving dynamics argument, mine was just based on the ease of power to get out of gen 3's. Its smooth enough for me, with a tune power is decent down low.

My best friends oldies have an AU XR6III, VCT or something. I think the interior is very plain and its get up and go doesnt inspire me. Again, just my opinion.

[XR8-260]

Originally Posted by SSBUB

you make good points, the xr6t has proven to be a winner, hence i reccomend he test drive both.
The SS may look something like an executive with a spoiler kit, but the differences go to dash colours, ride height, suspension, engine!! etc etc similar to the ford. But i dunno, i just couldnt pick any AU series over a VX SS unless it was a TE50 or something like that. Stock AUxr8 vs Stock VX SS, the SS wins hands down imo.
As for the driving dynamics argument, mine was just based on the ease of power to get out of gen 3's. Its smooth enough for me, with a tune power is decent down low.

I have to agree with you. The VX SS wins hands down for the price. The XR6T is arguably better but is also a bit more expensive.

[LeadFoot81]

Mighty XR6 said earlier that in SA vippin can get a 6T for the same price as an SS tho (3)

Like you said SSBUB, its a personal preference thing re:SS vs XR8. I find the SS interior a little boy racer and lairy, where the XRs interior much classier (if somewhat somber)

I test drove all 3 AU XRs (XR6-VCT and 8) and the two 6s didnt inspire me very much, the 8 felt special tho-but i want a tourer, not a drag car.

For me personally, the fords superior driving dynamics mean Id pick just about any AU over a VX (a HSV GTO would be nice however..)

[fordAU]

Originally Posted by SSBUB

Stock AUxr8 vs Stock VX SS, the SS wins hands down imo.

The AU is the winner here when compared to a VX. Driven many VX's and the 220 AU is a better performer all around, to put it simply a better drivers car.

The VX is sloppy in handling, plain looking with an interior straight out of
K-Mart. The auto box is laughable and unless modified the Commo is a very ordinary performer.

Whilst subjective the AU XR's are much more appealing in the looks dept than a VX, no comparison imo, the AU wins the battle :

[XR8-260]

Originally Posted by fordAU

The VX is sloppy in handling, plain looking with an interior straight out of
K-Mart. The auto box is laughable and unless modified the Commo is a very ordinary performer.

I beg to differ. Some auto 225kw LS1s have run high 13s stock. I'm pretty sure that was a freak car though.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by 3

I beg to differ. Some auto 225kw LS1s have run high 13s stock. I'm pretty sure that was a freak car though.

I don't see why that would be a freak? The same weight, same engine, same gearbox Chevrolet Camaro's of the same era could do 13.2. And averaged ~13.5. Why must our examples be so slow?

[SSBUB]

horses for courses i guess - will he modify the car though? Whats his needs? Does he want speed or just a cruiser? Does he like to look at a red/yellow/silver dash fascia or prefer black? Does he even like the AU shape? too many variables, hence why opinions are like a-holes.

[VippiN]

Loving all these posts guys. Really giving me something to think about. Nothing like a good debate!

will he modify the car though? Engine bay wise yes, to an extent. Nothing crazy.
Whats his needs? Daily and looks good and holds its own.
Does he want speed or just a cruiser? More so a cruiser that can show the power if I feel the need.
Does he like to look at a red/yellow/silver dash fascia or prefer black? I like colours.
Does he even like the AU shape? It's not horribad but it doesn't arouse me either.

[TURBOTAXI]

I guess at the end of the day you will buy the car that fires you up. I have learnt that turbo's kick butt but only after owning five V8's.

[Bi66uy]

Don't let anyone else try to change your mind.
If you want a commodore, then get it. I've heard no real negative comments about them.

[tapeworm]

XR6T for u then. lol. Nah, the T is clearly the superior car out of the choices available. Everything about it outdoes your other options. No Brainer.

[SSBUB]

yes but the T is more expensive - well they hold there value better here in WA, dont know about the eastern states. If you can get into an xr6T then by all means, but if your looking at AU pricing, forget em and get an SS. I know beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but cmon, the AU is a shocker....there, i said, flame suit on.

[XR8-260]

Originally Posted by Steffo

I don't see why that would be a freak? The same weight, same engine, same gearbox Chevrolet Camaro's of the same era could do 13.2. And averaged ~13.5. Why must our examples be so slow?

It's just that most people are getting low-mid 14s on average, which is still an impressive time. Most people would agree that a 13.75 @ 165kph from a stock V8 VX Calais is significantly better than what the average one would do.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by MightyXR6Turbo

As has been mentioned, Vippin is in SA, I'm in SA, so my comments on price are based on SA. In SA there are lots and lots of XR6T's in the exact same price range as a VX SS so if he can afford a VX SS he can afford an XR6T. Do some research before you jump to these conclusions.

And it would also pay to read the initial post before shooting your mouth off, Vippin said that he wants an automatic, and is not interested in a manual so there'd be no manual conversions there.

As for the "No replacement for displacement", I think those days were dusted by the XR6T, a few simple mods can make it easily streetable and able to have more power and torque than any 300rwkW GenIII to step up.

I too live in SA champ, northern suburbs just like Vippin.
I have done my homework and the cheapest i could find a XR6T was a 03 BA with 90 oddK's and for the sum of $27,999.
As comparison a VX SS can be bought with around 120K for about $20K, The BA being newer so obviously would have less k's if looking at the averages.
It's also possible to get the Calais for around $18-20K with Gen3, which would be my choice, it also comes with an AUTO!.
My comments about the manual were in reply to some saying the Holden Auto was it's down fall. I was simply saying that if the auto was so bad he could easily make a CALAIS with Auto into a Calais with manual for the money a XR6T would cost.
Oh and your right with the last part of your post it was the rice inspired XR6T that put an end to the good ole days of displacement leading the way, much like the Skylines at Bathurst, just ask Jim Richards!

[VippiN]

Again, thanks for all the replies.

Originally Posted by BENT_8

I too live in SA champ, northern suburbs just like Vippin.
I have done my homework and the cheapest i could find a XR6T was a 03 BA with 90 oddK's and for the sum of $27,999.

First things first though. For a 20k car, I don't mind travelling interstate and driving home for the right car and the right price.

A quick view of the trading post reveals this:

$18,500.00 FORD FALCON XR6 2003 turbo, tiptronic auto, phantom purple, 145,000kms, full service hist, still under extended warranty, reg 02/08, SBR-814, ExCond, $18,500neg (0403)557175, (03)93039245, ROXBURGH PARK

$22,000.00 FORD FALCON BA XR6 Turbo 2005 harvest green, sedan 4ltr automatic, 80000kms, 8 months warranty, excellent condition, 1 owner, new tyres, towbar, no body damage, full service history, tinted windows, reluctant sale. will impress you TXC-525 EC $22000 (0430)175254 Carrum Downs

That's a fair bit cheaper than $27,999.

On the flip side..

$12,990.00 Holden Commodore SS 1999 RWD Tigamica, sedan 5.7ltr automatic, 280000kms, HOLDEN COMMODORE SS VT. Tiger Mica. Sedan, 5.7 VT V8 Auto, Factory sunroof, ABS , Air Conditioning, Alloy wheels, CD Player, Central Locking, Cruise Control, Dual Airbags, Electronic Fuel Injection, Power Steering , Power Windows, Tow Bar, Independent Rear Suspension, Regular Servicing & RWC PSH 993 VGC $12,990.00 Negotiable (03)54283111 (0411)466206 GISBORNE

$17,500.00 HOLDEN COMMODORE SS II 1999 Generation III, 5.7 litre, new rebuilt automatic, cold air induction, stainless steel extractors/exhaust, 18in imported mags, low profile tyres, new suspension and shocks, custom SS seatcovers, custom console and instruments panel, all SS options, other custom upgrades, 138,197kms, logbooks, full service history, registered 06/09, Safety Certificate, Excellent Condition, SERIOUS BUYERS ONLY $17500 negotiable (0418)739995 CANNON HILL

16,999.00 Holden Calais VX 2001, 5.7 Gen III V8, 1 owner with full service history. Only 112,000kms, liquid silver duco, 10 stack CD, as new tyres, dark tint. As brand new, WJD-336 $16999 www.citysidemotors.com.au LVD171181 Cityside Motors 189 Main North Road Nailsworth 08 83444777 0407394918

Now i'm not saying these are the best examples. or the lowest kays, but there are prices like these out there. I've actually looked at the Calais above and it's pretty tidy, I couldn't fault the exterior. (No I didn't test drive it.) Just a update that things aren't as expensive as they seem..

[SSBUB]

would give the high km xr6t one a miss, aswell as the modified vt asking 17.5

Infact i would give the VT ss a miss altogether. I would look for something as stock as possible if you could find it.