Goodbye Holden Commodore?

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by svo supporter

I know where you're coming from and I've been there as well.


At the end of the day, these gadgets can and will fail, so relying heavily on them will create a false sense of security. Example. I have reverse sensors in my work van, with a gadget that judges distance to the object mounted on the steering column. This didn't prevent me hitting a trailer draw bar and wrecking a door on the van. (The draw bar was above the sensors, so it didn't register). And yes, it was my fault for relying on this stupid gadget and no you couldn't judge the distance by sticking your head out the door.

Nothing will prevent an idiot being an idiot behind the wheel.

I see your point but we're looking at this from two different ends, you obviously see the times when the
technology fails where as I still believe that technology will avoid more scrapes and damage than it causes.

The gadgets themselves aren't the problem, it's the basic skill applied to them, ergo the gadgets are skill neutral.

[fte50]

The majority of the decision is based on size, capacity, styling & color - what its packaged with or without is more of a secondary concern for better or worse.

Originally Posted by Nic85

Maybe not. But they'll most likely forgo the Falcon for an SUV that has more gadgets, a diesel engine, and is more frugal.

You havent even grasped what im saying. You speak of 2 very different cars.

Your scenario would apply to a consumer who really had no idea what they wanted from the start. They,ve gone car shopping as if it were a fishing trip.
Each car falls within a certain class/category and most people have already pre determined which category of car 'they' suit, along with which car suits 'them'.

You do however clearly highlight my example of a toss consumer.
Happy to convert from a Commodore to a Captiva coz it perms their hair as they drive. No 2nd prizes for guessing which is a better package though - but thats irrelevant and overshadowed by the latest toss gizmo.

[Nic85]

Originally Posted by fte50

You havent even grasped what im saying. You speak of 2 very different cars.

Your scenario would apply to a consumer who really had no idea what they wanted from the start. They,ve gone car shopping as if it were a fishing trip.
Each car falls within a certain class/category and most people have already pre determined which category of car 'they' suit, along with which car suits 'them'.

You do however clearly highlight my example of a toss consumer.
Happy to convert from a Commodore to a Captiva coz it perms their hair as they drive. No 2nd prizes for guessing which is a better package though - but thats irrelevant and overshadowed by the latest toss gizmo.

You sound really bitter with your pejorative and vitriolic attitude.

I'm speaking simply from a numbers point of view. Falcon is selling around 1500/month if it's lucky. 75% of those sales are fleet sales, so that leaves around 375 sales per month going to private customers.

They're making their minds up alright. Regardless of your view on things, the numbers don't lie.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Nic85
Maybe not. But they'll most likely forgo the Falcon for an SUV that has more gadgets, a diesel engine, and is more frugal.

Diesel Territory orders are holding strong.

Originally Posted by Nic85

I'm speaking simply from a numbers point of view. Falcon is selling around 1500/month if it's lucky. 75% of those sales are fleet sales, so that leaves around 375 sales per month going to private customers.

They're making their minds up alright. Regardless of your view on things, the numbers don't lie.

I still think that fleets will come on board as time rolls on, Holden wouldn't be going dedicated LPG if they didn't believe that.
Early days yet and Jan, Feb and March tend to be a bit slow, Territory sales should help cheer us up...

[fte50]

Originally Posted by Nic85

You sound really bitter with your pejorative and vitriolic attitude

Coz i dont agree with all your points, or challenge your views .....
Perhaps you should listen to the tone of your replies - its obvious whos bitter -as for me i dont give a sh**.

[Dr Smith]

At the moment everyone/thing is in a holding pattern. I've heard (maybe someone in the know can confirm) that refinancing of balloons has increased considerably vs buying new. Add the stupidity going on in Canberra, the chance of major policy changes occurring (again) business people are just sitting back and waiting.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

At the moment everyone/thing is in a holding pattern. I've heard (maybe someone in the know can confirm) that refinancing of balloons has increased considerably vs buying new. Add the stupidity going on in Canberra, the chance of major policy changes occurring (again) business people are just sitting back and waiting.

Leasing has dried up since the changes to FBT contribution levels were announced,
it seems like a lot of people on leases refinanced their balloons minimum time is 12 months
but I've heard a lot are going for two years to watch what the fall out from changes will be by then.

IMO, the government just stuffed the novated lease industry for people doing +30,000/year
and rewarded all the drivers who merely use their "work car" as commute vehicles.
Seems they want everyone doing significant mileage to go back to log book method,
auditing log book methods became a very time consuming affair for tax employees..

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by fte50

Coz i dont agree with all your points, or challenge your views .....
Perhaps you should listen to the tone of your replies - its obvious whos bitter -as for me i dont give a sh**.

theres some idiots on here who think the falcon fails simply because it lacks the tech of smaller cars. Thats utter garbage...its the market changing to cheaper cars...OTHERWISE WHY IS THE COMMADORE SELLING NUMBER 2 ITS GOT THE SAME TECH AS THE FALCON.

That doesnt mean as we progress we dont need more tech..because every model will get more and more tech..as they should.

On a side note for some smart *****...whos seen more mazda 3 adds then falcon or commadore adds...NOT ME...BECAUSE THEY DONT HAVE THEM.Plus the falcon still sells in the top ten with a huge range potential about to help out.

[jpd80]

While Falcon and Commodore may lack some of the very latest tech gadgets, that doesn't make it a deal breaker.
And as little as six months ago, most of that latest tech was unknown to buyers ..

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by jpd80

While Falcon and Commodore may lack some of the very latest tech gadgets, that doesn't make it a deal breaker.
And as little as six months ago, most of that latest tech was unknown to buyers ..

i wonder if people care that the falcons tech provides a more efficient car then most of these small cars people are talking about...not to mention things like park assists are options only available on the top off the line models...hence more $$$$
ITS ALL ABOUT THE DOLLARS

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

i wonder if people care that the falcons tech provides a more efficient car then most of these small cars people are talking about...not to mention things like park assists are options only available on the top off the line models...hence more $$$$
ITS ALL ABOUT THE DOLLARS

Perception again,
It's great that Ford has the tech available to buyers who want to splash out,
Ford and Holden are most likely waiting for local EPASS supplier to ramp up before
making an in production switch and a smooth transfer of supply contracts.

[fte50]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

theres some idiots on here who think the falcon fails simply because it lacks the tech of smaller cars. Thats utter garbage...:

Yep, the irony is that if it wore a Euro badge or it was fitted standard with some bullsh*t gadget, half these clowns would call it a great car.

Perhaps both Ford & Holden should introduce a calorie counter & Biggest Loser DVD Box set with every new car sold - seems just what the public is after.

[jpd80]

The first order of business is to get fleets to start buying Falcon in bulk orders and at 18,000 sales per year,
the need for fleet sales to Falcon cannot be made clearer. Sorry but the retail market is secondary to survival,
getting sufficient production volume is now a firm priority.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by jpd80

The first order of business is to get fleets to start buying Falcon in bulk orders and at 18,000 sales per year,
the need for fleet sales to Falcon cannot be made clearer. Sorry but the retail market is secondary to survival,
getting sufficient production volume is now a firm priority.

I do agree Falcon needs more big fleet customers ordering.. But, 18K from one fleet customer per year? Seeing as that is what Falcon sold last year, do you really think that is possible anytime soon??

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

I do agree Falcon needs more big fleet customers ordering.. But, 18K from one fleet customer per year? Seeing as that is what Falcon sold last year, do you really think that is possible anytime soon??

Ah, you misinterpreted my post by directly linking two phrases (my bad).
Break it down this way:

1) The first order of business is to get fleets to start buying Falcon in bulk orders

2) and at 18,000 sales per year, the need for fleet sales to Falcon cannot be made clearer..

If fleet sales percentage (75%) remains constant, it shows that Falcon fleet sales collapsed last year
as something like 8,000 to 9,000 sales look to have been lost without considering drops in retail.

I would love to see the year on year break down for sales to private, small and large fleets
as that would make compelling reading with where most of the sales were lost..
I'd say that Commodore would have suffered a similar if not proportionate decline.

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by jpd80

I find the price gaps between small to Mid to large cars hard to reconcile compared to other regions.
The gap between Focus and Mondeo/Fusion is much less in UK/USA and the gap between the
Focus-Fusion-Taurus is much less in the USA than our Focus-Mondeo-Falcon price regime.

I have a feeling that IF FoA could convince the brass to build Mondeo/Fusion here
and convert some of our engine plant into manufacturing 2.0 and V6 diesels for the region, things would
go a whole lot smoother and sales of efficient Fords would go through the roof with less restricted supply..

Not being a strong diesel advocate here but FoA has infrastructure that could be used to improve supply
to customers in the region and shorten the waiting time considerably, why not try...

A regional fitter?

Just about everything sold in the asia pacific region is going to be built in places like, Thailand, India, and China probably. What FoA needs is something it can demand a the asking price it comes with now. It's need to build Falcon's for Oz... and Lincoln's based off it for Asia Pacifica.

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Ford spending more than a billion on their R & D facilities here in Australia,
that says to me that Engineering, Research and Development will stay regardless...

I never saw that press briefing!

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

While Falcon and Commodore may lack some of the very latest tech gadgets, that doesn't make it a deal breaker.
And as little as six months ago, most of that latest tech was unknown to buyers ..

Yet Ford have introduced a good piece of tech that really gets a lot of people wanting it, a touch screen system, yet they never bother advertising it so who even know it exists in FG II?

These are the types of thing that need to be advertised to get the public interested in taking a look at Falcon.

If they don't bother advertising it it will just stay in freefall, but I think thats what Graziano was sent here to do.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

I never saw that press briefing!

It was announced around 2005, and resulted in Fords new PD facility and their new wind tunnel and adeobatic? noise chamber at the Proving Ground. All up cost was around $1.8 billion, but I would say with Ford making multi billion dollar profits per quarter, if push came to shove and manufacturing here was shut down I'd say PD will too. They could get a lot of money selling the equipment and land, I doubt they would keep the R&D facilities going on this side of the world, so far away from the places they do work for. I reckon it wouldn't be unviable to shift the whole sheebang to Thailand or China, and offer a lot of the engineering staff jobs over there.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

I never saw that press briefing!

LOL, it was 2006 so you were probably not aware...

FORD AUSTRALIA ANNOUNCES MAJOR NEW PROJECTS

There were more indepth articles after that about where the money was spent but all on the back of T6 ranger and Figo as well as other ongoing projects.

Ford Australia Christens New R&D Center (2007)

LINK


In 2010 FoA also announce $300 million spent on R & D facilities...

LINK
Ford says it made investments of more than $307M across research, development and facilities over the same timeframe.

I mean I know where this stuff is but anyone else could look it up too....

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by jpd80

LOL, it was 2006 so you were probably not aware...

FORD AUSTRALIA ANNOUNCES MAJOR NEW PROJECTS

That press briefing is so inspiring. Situation now though... it feels like it was written in the seventies.

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Yet Ford have introduced a good piece of tech that really gets a lot of people wanting it, a touch screen system, yet they never bother advertising it so who even know it exists in FG II?

These are the types of thing that need to be advertised to get the public interested in taking a look at Falcon.

If they don't bother advertising it it will just stay in freefall, but I think thats what Graziano was sent here to do.

Base model Ford's in the U.S. get a 4.2" screen. That's basically my phone.

If that is Bob's job. I feel for the bloke.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Yet Ford have introduced a good piece of tech that really gets a lot of people wanting it, a touch screen system, yet they never bother advertising it so who even know it exists in FG II?

These are the types of thing that need to be advertised to get the public interested in taking a look at Falcon.

If they don't bother advertising it it will just stay in freefall, but I think that's what Graziano was sent here to do.

Ford has spent the money, they don't seem too concerned in the short term but can see that Ford is looking
to make changes in the medium to long term, I wouldn't like to speculate what or how much that will be..

Boss, I hope for everyone's sake at ford, they make the right decisions but balance that with
which products gives them best presence in Australia in terms of sales and stance in the community..

[Bossxr8]

The thing that really gets our goat in the plant, is the lack of backing the company seems to be putting into the product. If your product is struggling, you need to go out and sell it to the masses, and push your product onto anyone who will listen, not sit on your hands and expect it to sell itself.

It seems to me that once a company refuses to back its products its all over.