Open Speed Limit Highway in NT???

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Yep...road deaths went up by about 50% in the first year after they brought in the 130 limit.

One theory was that before when there was no limit, you drove to the conditions and at a speed you felt comfortable with...and for a lot of people, they might feel "comfortable" at 100 or 110 as they drove in other states. Now put a sign up saying "130" and they think they "must" do 130 or that it's perfectly OK to do 130 at any time of the day or night, rail hail or shine, and will drive outside thier comfort zone...but it must be safe because the government put up a sign saying it was OK...

It wasn't quite 50% but anyway . . . . . .

Now tell us what happend in the years after the first please

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Big Trev

It wasn't quite 50% but anyway . . . . . .

Now tell us what happend in the years after the first please

It went up and down as it was affected by other events such as floods etc.

It very plainly showed that the removal of the open zones had no demonstrable positive effect whatsoever other than to make a group of rabid zealots who do not actually live or drive in NT feel better about themselves.

I really can understand why there is such strong opposition to open zones. It shows actual evidence rather than theory and puts is peril a number of academic's credibility.

I do find quite amusing the comments that Australian drivers are not capable of judging what is a suitable speed for them in any situation.

Maybe the trainers, training and dogmatic agenda focused curriculum are a major factor in the problem.......

[Outbackjack]

One good year since 1/1/2007. That was at the height of the GFC. Traffic here was noticably light.

http://transport.nt.gov.au/safety/ro...our-statistics


2008 should shoot down any credibility of the pro speed limit loonies.

Notice the indiginous figures. Keep in your mind that they make up about 10% of the population. (spread out over the whole NT)

[Smoke Pursuit]

I like what 2011G6E has to say and agree.. There were people out there that were driving to their limit, e.g. 90 - 100 - 110 kms an hour, now every donkey and his dog thinks they have to do 130..... There are cars out there that don't do 130 safely.....

I personally think it should have been left as it was....

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by TheInterceptor

Ill be covering roughly 4000kms in one leg next year (out of roughly 9 - 10,000kms), alone, on green P's legally limited to a rediculous 100.
Ill be covering a total of at least 8000kms solo on that trip.

I should probably go make my will now....

4000 kms in one leg?

Why would you put yourself in that predicament?

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by Outbackjack

One good year since 1/1/2007. That was at the height of the GFC. Traffic here was noticably light.

http://transport.nt.gov.au/safety/ro...our-statistics


2008 should shoot down any credibility of the pro speed limit loonies.

Notice the indiginous figures. Keep in your mind that they make up about 10% of the population. (spread out over the whole NT)

have you actually looked at the trend in figures, they are trending down, you have shot yourself in the foot with your own argument, as I have said before, 1 year was bad but the trend is down - sorry

[mcnews]

So is the national trend. Still a huge point that in year one there was a big spike, that can't be discounted.

[Outbackjack]

Originally Posted by Big Trev

have you actually looked at the trend in figures, they are trending down, you have shot yourself in the foot with your own argument, as I have said before, 1 year was bad but the trend is down - sorry

Trev, if you read back through your own comments you will see that your shoes are full of holes. Those figures only show a five year period. If you go back to when figures were first started to be recorded, you will see that the trend is actually up for that period. Another reason that you should be very carefull when you use partial figures and very loose facts. Will you be retracting your assertion???

I put that link up there to show that it is very obvious that speed limits have made no difference. If the guv of the day got off their politically correct horse and targeted the real problems up here then we might have seen a decline in fatalities. Hopefully that might happen now that we have a change of Guv. Also as I highlighted, the indiginous figures account for about HALF of the fatalities. I can assure you that they are not traveling up the highway in performance cars...... You chose to ignore that as well.

[Vincenzo]

For those of you who have just post without having read any previous postings I resubmit an earlier post of mine on this subject with minor changes.

Arrived in the NT in 1980. 1983 to 1998 I was in the Ambulance Service working in all parts of the Territory so if it has happened chances are I have seen it.

Taught First Aid for two years.

Worked at the MVR as a licence tester for two years ( tested Motorcycle to HR)

Ran my own business as a driving instructor for six years (learners and defensive / advanced driving instruction)

In derestricted days locals travelled at speeds that felt safe for them. I cruised at 130 with the family aboard, friends anywhere from 110 to 200.

Having said that in 1985 I did the trip from Darwin to Alice in 8 hr 47 m, covering the last 195 km in 53 minutes - Honda VF1000F11. No fatigue but I had a heightened sense of arousal for several hours after arriving, so the wife told me.

Fuel stops are regularly placed throughout the length of the highway, as in fact are rest stops. So there should be no reason for fatigue. It takes three minutes to stop, get out, have a piddle, buy a drink then get back in and continue.I may be proved wrong but the biggest distance between fuel is about 150 kms. If it is not a town then some of the road houses are great. Stop where all the road trains are parked in front of and you will find a clean respectable place to get a good meal.

Accidents in town are usually alcohol / stupidity related. (traffic breaches)

Rural accidents are alcohol / stupidity / unsafe vehicles - god bless the ferals

Remote accident are Alcohol / fatigue / unsafe vehicles / speed inappropriate for the conditions.

Unlike what most would have you believe the biggest killer in the Territory is Alcohol. There appears to be some sort of agreement between the media and Police that any accident reported on has a quote relating to potential breach of speed limits in it. 15 years as an Ambulance Officer here in the NT taught me that is not the case and rank and file members of the Police would agree.

As for the CLP bringing back the derestricted speed limits, unless the Coalition wins federally I cannot see it happening, as any Legislation passed by the Territory elected Government can be overturned by the Federal Government anytime they want to.

I strongly stand by this, as that is what happened with our Assisted suicide laws and with the Aboriginal Intervention. Having said that I am very happy for Terry Mills and his Government to prove me wrong.

My final point relates to speed. Should the Territory again become derestricted check to see what proportion of fatalities are local and alcohol, local and speed, tourists and alcohol and tourists and speed then come and reopen this thread

[TheInterceptor]

Originally Posted by DASH GT

4000 kms in one leg?

Why would you put yourself in that predicament?

Hi, my target location is that distance away, theres no sidetracking or any sightseeing till the destination. So thats what i class as one leg of my trip.
Drive till i get sleepy, sleep, then drive, sleep, drive so on so on and of course not driving though the night.
Theres more details but thats the jist of it. My point earlier was that 100 is a terrible speed to do to cover a decent amount of kilometers, im especially not looking forward to the dead straights out there!

[flappist]

Originally Posted by TheInterceptor

Hi, my target location is that distance away, theres no sidetracking or any sightseeing till the destination. So thats what i class as one leg of my trip.
Drive till i get sleepy, sleep, then drive, sleep, drive so on so on and of course not driving though the night.
Theres more details but thats the jist of it. My point earlier was that 100 is a terrible speed to do to cover a decent amount of kilometers, im especially not looking forward to the dead straights out there!

As you are young and will be by yourself you might want to plan it.

4000 km will take at least 45 hours driving in real terms.
If you hammer you might do it in 40 hours, if you just wander along it will be closer to 50.

Either way it will be 5 days and 4 nights.

Break it up into 5 days of 700-1000km with 3 breaks in each and book the motel way in advance for each night. Sleeping in a bed for $80 is heaps cheaper than roughing it and breaking the car due to fatigue.
Also by setting a target for each day you just have to get there before dark so "get-there-itus" does not kick in (well not as much). This also give you a chance to actually look about as if for example you have only 200km to go and 4 hours before dark then you have time to spare.

Drink lots of water/coffee milk/whatever as you wander along which will ensure you are hydrated and also force you to take "comfort breaks". Everytime you stop fill up with fuel just in case wherever you planned to fill up is out or the power off or closed.

Most of all HAVE FUN and enjoy the journey. Make driving the reason for the trip not just the method.

[Outbackjack]

I usually keep alert on long drives with music and Kevin Bloody Wilson CD's. Laughter is a great stimulant.

BTW, in July last year a mate and I did Broome to Bowen in 49.5 hours on motorcycles. Will be certified by the IBA soon.

[sarrge2001]

http://transport.nt.gov.au/__data/as...ummary2011.pdf

10 year statistics for the NT (fatalities may have more than one factor involved)

53% not wearing a seatbelt
49% Alcohol related
20% Speed related
32% involved an unlicensed driver

If you look on page 1 of that report at the overall fatalities it is trending slightly down between 2001 & 2011 but the driver/passenger fatalities appear to be trending slightly upwards over that same 10 year period.

Contributing factor trends on the same page show in overall increase in speed related fatalities whilst alcohol, fatigue and seatbelts are trending down

[phild12s131e]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Yep...road deaths went up by about 50% in the first year after they brought in the 130 limit.

One theory was that before when there was no limit, you drove to the conditions and at a speed you felt comfortable with...and for a lot of people, they might feel "comfortable" at 100 or 110 as they drove in other states. Now put a sign up saying "130" and they think they "must" do 130 or that it's perfectly OK to do 130 at any time of the day or night, rail hail or shine, and will drive outside thier comfort zone...but it must be safe because the government put up a sign saying it was OK...

So precisely how many of those deaths were in the new 130 zones AND happened due to speeds at around the 130? My guess from being up here and hearing about most accidents is that the answer is somewhere between bugger all and none. By far the deaths were related to other major causes and happened mostly in already restricted metro areas. A workmate of mine was one of them and despite the carry on about the speed involved (he wasn't the driver) it actually happened in an 80 kph zone within Darwin.

I recently drove back from Adelaide and the fastest vehicle I saw was a Wicked Camper and the driver must have thought that 130 was mandatory. In 3 round trips in the last 3 years I only saw one vehicle faster than that. He passed me twice between Alice and Tennant as he had to refuel. When cruising at the higher legal speeds it's hard to judge overall behaviour as you don't catch the faster ones and the ones coming behind you take some time to catch you. Going on traffic headed the other way I'd say not many are over the current 130.

While I'm not particularly concerned if the 130 stays, I'd rather see SA lift much of their side to something more reasonable. The 130 is about where my RTV becomes uncomfortable in many places.

Phil

[Outbackjack]

Originally Posted by sarrge2001

http://transport.nt.gov.au/__data/as...ummary2011.pdf

10 year statistics for the NT (fatalities may have more than one factor involved)

53% not wearing a seatbelt
49% Alcohol related
20% Speed related
32% involved an unlicensed driver

If you look on page 1 of that report at the overall fatalities it is trending slightly down between 2001 & 2011 but the driver/passenger fatalities appear to be trending slightly upwards over that same 10 year period.

Contributing factor trends on the same page show in overall increase in speed related fatalities whilst alcohol, fatigue and seatbelts are trending down

The problem here is that the "speeding" box always gets ticked by the beaurocrats when looking at accident causes. The figures that I have crunched some what disagree with yours, in that alcohol realted accidents have increased over the last ten (or so) years. Speed related seem constant and 90% are in built up suburban areas. A few years ago the NT guv had a web site showing with little red dots where fatal accidents ocurred. It got taken down when it became obvious that almost all accidents were outside the badly thought out imposition of the 130 limit area's. It is also a fact that Harold Screwloose and his bearded, long sock, roman sandle idiot children of the aristocracy mates, want a 110 limit all the way from Port Agutta to Darwin. I would guess that the CLP being elected is a blow to them.

[sarrge2001]

Originally Posted by Outbackjack

........bearded, long sock, roman sandle idiot children of the aristocracy ..........

And I think Harold wants walking pace Australia wide........


Would be interesting to see a breakdown by rural vs Darwin

Having been up here for a few years, it appears to me (through the ever reliable NT News) that most fatalities in the rural area are a result of too much booze, or people wandering along or sleeping on the highway at night (or, if you believe the NT News, UFO's and crocodiles).

Then there is the issue of one Toyota Troopie with 27 people on board rolling over with multiple fatalities.

The numbers up here are so small (relatively speaking and not to trivialise) that an accident that kills 3 people (such as happened last year in Darwin) is enough to skew the figures for that year.......

Personally, i think that the majority of people will find anything in excess of 130 too much to cope with and will drive at a speed they are comfortable at. It's my experience that they do that now in the 130 limited stretches, with most people sitting around 115/120. You get the occasional car flying past and the occasional one doing 90.

And the stretches up here that are 130, in the main are of a pretty good standard with wide, tree free runoff areas (there are however, some large animals that do occasionally get in the way)

[2011G6E]

One of my nephews was thinking of transferring to the NT police from Queensland and went there on holiday to find out detailed info. He asked about the (at the time) lack of an open road speed limit, and the police said that generally people did the right thing, but if they saw some old rustbucket doing 120, they'd pull it over for a check over, same with anyone doing dangerous stuff.

He also mentioned the oddity in the stats of crashes up there where you would have a "single vehicle accident" with 12 or 13 injuries or more. The police told him you'd turn up to a crash scene and find a Landcruiser ute which had been carrying 10 aboriginals or more in the back and as many as they could jam in the front. Nothing racist, it was a cultural thing.

Alcohol was also a huge problem amongst black and white Territorians.

A suggestion for your "4000km in one stretch" trip...you mentioned "drive until I'm tired". The problem will not be "tired" but "fatigue". Some people seem to think they can drive all day and all night like an hero. However, the niggling fact is that you will know when you're "tired"...but you usually won't know when you're "fatigued", and that's much more dangerous.

[mcnews]

Everyone is different. I can stay alert much longer than most people. I have no problems doing Sydney-Melbourne not stopping for fuel. Have ridden across the country in 42 hours etc. But I know most of my friends couldn't do it, they fall asleep in front of the TV etc. LOL. I know my limits for sure, but when it comes to fatigue etc. they are quite high. This is not a hero thing, just everyone is different. Like some in running were good at long distance (me) and totally absolultely completely useless at sprints (also me). etc.

Sitting on 130+ in the NT is a liberating experience. Makes your normal speed limit + 30 into 170 on the speedo, 160 by the GPS. You go much faster you use too much petrol and it becomes a loss time wise due to extra fuel stops anyway.

I also know about being alert. Despite being able to hold my beer quite well in comparison to the average bear, I can feel the effects of one beer as soon as I get in a car. And thus I generally just don't have any. Because I like driving and am enthusiast, and if you can't feel 100% in control it feels crap.

[TheInterceptor]

Originally Posted by flappist

As you are young and will be by yourself you might want to plan it.

4000 km will take at least 45 hours driving in real terms.
If you hammer you might do it in 40 hours, if you just wander along it will be closer to 50.

Either way it will be 5 days and 4 nights.

Break it up into 5 days of 700-1000km with 3 breaks in each and book the motel way in advance for each night. Sleeping in a bed for $80 is heaps cheaper than roughing it and breaking the car due to fatigue.
Also by setting a target for each day you just have to get there before dark so "get-there-itus" does not kick in (well not as much). This also give you a chance to actually look about as if for example you have only 200km to go and 4 hours before dark then you have time to spare.

Drink lots of water/coffee milk/whatever as you wander along which will ensure you are hydrated and also force you to take "comfort breaks". Everytime you stop fill up with fuel just in case wherever you planned to fill up is out or the power off or closed.

Most of all HAVE FUN and enjoy the journey. Make driving the reason for the trip not just the method.

Hi Flappist! Yes sir i have it planned out. I have my rough itinerary set out, rough because ill be car camping, aiming to stay at a van park/site every second night so i can shower and all. This means i wont worry about making it to anywhere specific beyond what ive planned out! A to B, anything past B is a welcome bonus but no need to press on if i can't. Just find a suitable place to sleep/setup camp and sleep in the comfy bed ill make in the wagon.

5 days you reckon? Thatd be fantastic!

Ah yes, thats a good idea. Will do! Ill have a few jerry cans with me aswell incase, i know that some servo's will likley be closed out there!

I sure will! It'll be my first time car camping/free camping aswell so itll be interesting haha. Driving is never just a method to me! Im just not happy that im legally bound to 100 when where im going itd be fine to sit on a much more decent higher speed.

[TheInterceptor]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

A suggestion for your "4000km in one stretch" trip...you mentioned "drive until I'm tired". The problem will not be "tired" but "fatigue". Some people seem to think they can drive all day and all night like an hero. However, the niggling fact is that you will know when you're "tired"...but you usually won't know when you're "fatigued", and that's much more dangerous.

Hiya, that is what i do. Morso "drive until im fatigued" would have been a better choice of wording. Ive done thousands apon thousands of kms travelling already and know the difference. I conclude I hate fatigue a lot.
But yes, you are right.

Out of my experience, fatigue settles in quicker when travelling at a lower speed, when one up's the speed, one stay more alert and its only once you stop you feel the effects.

[Outbackjack]

Originally Posted by TheInterceptor

Hi Flappist! Yes sir i have it planned out. I have my rough itinerary set out, rough because ill be car camping, aiming to stay at a van park/site every second night so i can shower and all. This means i wont worry about making it to anywhere specific beyond what ive planned out! A to B, anything past B is a welcome bonus but no need to press on if i can't. Just find a suitable place to sleep/setup camp and sleep in the comfy bed ill make in the wagon.

5 days you reckon? Thatd be fantastic!

Ah yes, thats a good idea. Will do! Ill have a few jerry cans with me aswell incase, i know that some servo's will likley be closed out there!

I sure will! It'll be my first time car camping/free camping aswell so itll be interesting haha. Driving is never just a method to me! Im just not happy that im legally bound to 100 when where im going itd be fine to sit on a much more decent higher speed.

Have a good trip. Take care. Sounds like you have the right attidute to safely cover the long trip you have in mind. BTW, if its OK, why are you doing this big journey?

[TheInterceptor]

Originally Posted by Outbackjack

Have a good trip. Take care. Sounds like you have the right attidute to safely cover the long trip you have in mind. BTW, if its OK, why are you doing this big journey?

Thanks mate, will do. Yeah its ok. Why am i? Why not! Ive been to all states and territories...except WA! So im going over! Plus im gunna visit me best mate while im there! 4000kms to there, many more k's around there, then another 4000kms back. Loads of fun to be had!

And as a bonus, its faaaar far away from Sydney!

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by flappist

I do find quite amusing the comments that Australian drivers are not capable of judging what is a suitable speed for them in any situation.

Maybe the trainers, training and dogmatic agenda focused curriculum are a major factor in the problem.......

I don't want to have to say exactly again but ... exactly.

Originally Posted by Vincenzo

No fatigue but I had a heightened sense of arousal for several hours after arriving, so the wife told me.

Mmmm good. I'll add that to my list of arguments for raising the speed!

I thought you had to have a Porsche to get that?

-------------------------
Drove into a blinding rainstorm on the autobahn yesterday. Everybody slowed down to 80 or less, even the 200 km/h brigade. Obviously motorists do have brains.

Y'know absolutely the best thing about driving with the restriction lifted is the lack of stress of watching for HP cars and radars. You can concentrate on driving instead of watching the speedo. The relief is palpable. My comfortable motorway speed is about 130. It's not much different from driving at 100 or 110 except your concentration is higher, you don't get bored and the journey's over sooner.

[Vincenzo]

Originally Posted by new2ford

Mmmm good. I'll add that to my list of arguments for raising the speed!

I thought you had to have a Porsche to get that?

Recently married - had spent three weeks in Darwin on inservice training and had to make sure I made the sexy under ware shop before it closed Friday afternoon in the Todd street Mall.

[Full Noise]

Perhaps we should get a few Texan lawmakers over here. We could use a few sensible limits like this on the Hume and Eyre.

http://blogs.wsj.com/drivers-seat/20...record-85-mph/

[sarrge2001]

Yesterday......
http://www.businessspectator.com.au/...cument&src=hp7

Northern Territory Chief Minister Terry Mills has left open the possibility some roads may have speed limits removed.

A maximum speed limit of 130km/h was introduced by the former Labor government in 2006, in response to a high road toll out of proportion to the NT's small population.

Previously no maximum speed limits existed along some highways in rural areas.

The Country Liberal Party (CLP) in opposition had opposed the changes.

On Tuesday Mr Mills, who took power last month, was asked whether he planned to scrap some rural speed limits.

"There comes a point where people have to make their own decisions and there are requirements on government to protect individuals and to set a standard," Mr Mills said.

"But when it comes to places outside of the urban environment, beyond Katherine there may well be the case, and I think there is, provided the roads are in good condition."

He said people should be able to drive according to their ability and the conditions of the roads.

From todays NT News (sorry, can't find the link)

Road safety experts yesterday declared war on the territory over open speed limits.
The Pedestrian Council of Australia and a trauma committee made up of Australias top surgeons said it would:
Ask the Federal Government to cut road funding to the Northern Territory
Call on the World Health Organisation to "shame" the Territory.
Pressure "every tourist body that will listen" to stop promoting the NT as a tourist destination and:
Urge travellers to boycot the Territory because "it's not safe"

Harold Scruby said the CLP's intention to remove the 130kmh speed limit was "disgusting" and "we'll go feral if they do this". "It's a hillbilly approach to road safety"

Irrational much?

Seriously?

Don't like it Harold........don't visit - we won't miss you.

They are talking about remote, rural highways and as Terry Mills, CLP Leader said "people should be able to drive according to their ability and the conditions of the roads"...... What a refreshing attitude!

[Trevor 57]

I still reckon it won't get up, pressure will come to bear and he will have to politely recant the election promise.

I feel the same as the Chief Minister, and I know signs don't stop people speeding, but too many will see it as a challenge to see how fast they can go.

[SteveJH]

I didn't know there were many pedestrians in the middle of the NT.....

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by SteveJH

I didn't know there were many pedestrians in the middle of the NT.....

[flappist]

Originally Posted by sarrge2001

Yesterday......
http://www.businessspectator.com.au/...cument&src=hp7

Northern Territory Chief Minister Terry Mills has left open the possibility some roads may have speed limits removed.

A maximum speed limit of 130km/h was introduced by the former Labor government in 2006, in response to a high road toll out of proportion to the NT's small population.

Previously no maximum speed limits existed along some highways in rural areas.

The Country Liberal Party (CLP) in opposition had opposed the changes.

On Tuesday Mr Mills, who took power last month, was asked whether he planned to scrap some rural speed limits.

"There comes a point where people have to make their own decisions and there are requirements on government to protect individuals and to set a standard," Mr Mills said.

"But when it comes to places outside of the urban environment, beyond Katherine there may well be the case, and I think there is, provided the roads are in good condition."

He said people should be able to drive according to their ability and the conditions of the roads.

From todays NT News (sorry, can't find the link)

Road safety experts yesterday declared war on the territory over open speed limits.
The Pedestrian Council of Australia and a trauma committee made up of Australias top surgeons said it would:
Ask the Federal Government to cut road funding to the Northern Territory
Call on the World Health Organisation to "shame" the Territory.
Pressure "every tourist body that will listen" to stop promoting the NT as a tourist destination and:
Urge travellers to boycot the Territory because "it's not safe"

Harold Scruby said the CLP's intention to remove the 130kmh speed limit was "disgusting" and "we'll go feral if they do this". "It's a hillbilly approach to road safety"

Irrational much?

Seriously?

Don't like it Harold........don't visit - we won't miss you.

They are talking about remote, rural highways and as Terry Mills, CLP Leader said "people should be able to drive according to their ability and the conditions of the roads"...... What a refreshing attitude!

There is a serious fear here for the wowsers.

If the road toll does not go bezerk then they are WRONG.

Harold Scruby is ranting like a terrorist. I think he needs to be treated as such.

As far as this group of surgeons and their "expert opinion" well I have yet to hear this group of self regulating superheroes' explanation for allowing Jayant Patel to join all their groups and operate in Bundaberg.

And the last bit, get the Feds to pull the money (which they can't). Fed election is less than 18 months away so the Victorian based Feds are going to over ride the newly elected NT Government actual campaign promise thereby saying to every NT voter "GET STUFFED". Yeh that will go down well.