Selling a car in Vic with no RWC.

[Bearman]

One of our family fleet will be up for sale soon. We'd like to sell it registered but with no RWC if possible. I know VicRoads says "no", it either has to be with a RWC or unregistered as is.

Looking at the scenario we'd sell it registered, do the paperwork etc but have no RWC. The buyer would then submit the paperwork and "forget" to put in the RWC. My understanding is that VicRoads will then write to the buyer and give them 30 days to lodge the RWC otherwise the rego will be cancelled. If the buyer gets the RWC and submits it within the 30 days then all's sweet.

Is this still the case?? Has anyone here recently bought a car in these circumstances?? Was there any comeback from VicRoads??

Also, have any sellers copped any flak from VicRoads for doing this? Obviously if they have copped grief from VicRoads we won't go down this path.

Very interested to hear from anyone with meaningful advice. Feel free to reply via PM if privacy is a concern.

[Kryton]

You really think that will happen?
What is more likely to happen is:
They take the car, dont transfer anything over to their name and you cop all of the speeding/toll fines since the car is still in your name.
You ask them to transfer it, they tell you to F.O and your left with the fines.

No RWC = no number plates left on the car.
Your silly if you do it any other way.

[Linkachu]

Yes Bearman thats still how it happens. Some of my friends did it with about 8 cars in a year.

[Pinkbits]

The last car i bought was from a ford dealer in NSW and as it had only 2 mths reg left they had no problems with me taking it with the plates without a "blue slip" i think they refer to them up there as they knew i would be re-registering it here.

The last car i sold was without a RWC on the understanding that i held the transfer papers for a week before i lodged them. i had no issues with the buyer.
I made a note of the time on the receipt when they picked it up.

[pauljh74]

Originally Posted by davway

You really think that will happen?
What is more likely to happen is:
They take the car, dont transfer anything over to their name and you cop all of the speeding/toll fines since the car is still in your name.
You ask them to transfer it, they tell you to F.O and your left with the fines.

No RWC = no number plates left on the car.
Your silly if you do it any other way.

You get them to fill out their details on the Vicroads transfer form and keep a copy. If they rack up fines, nominate the driver using the provided details. The seller would also have a copy of a written receipt stating that the buyer has paid $X for car Y on the date of sale. This can also be used to prove the vehicle has been sold even if the details from the buyer are dodgy. The fines can come to the seller, but they won't stick.

Selling without RWC - the seller can fill out the form and the new owner can supply the RWC and submit the form to Vicroads at that time.

[ratter]

I belive the transfer papers ask for the rwc number to be filled in and both parties have to sign the papers before submitting

[pauljh74]

Originally Posted by ratter

I belive the transfer papers ask for the rwc number to be filled in and both parties have to sign the papers before submitting

The seller fills in their details and leaves it with the buyer to complete when they get a RWC in the next week or so. It might not be how Vicroads want it to happen, but the grey area is seller gets rid of car, buyer gets car, car is roadworthy at time of rego transfer. The person at the counter at Vicroads won't give 2 hoots as they take yet another payment for rego transfer.

[ThaFlash]

vicroads only concern is......

1. money

2. having legislation changed to win courtcases


who really give a toss what vicroads think and want, last I checked we were free people.

while your at it leave the value blank for the new owner to fill in

[Matty4]

Craig,
went through this last week with VicRoads.
I bought the Volvo unregistered in NSW and had to provide a RWC to change it into my name. They actually checked the RWC and noticed that the cert issuer has transcribed the VIN incorrectly and were therefore not going to allow me to register it until I got a new one issued. However one phonecall from them to the issuer and 10 minutes later I had a new one faxed direct to vicroads and it was all done. So yes, they can and do ask for it and may not transfer rego over until it has been sighted.

Years ago I sold my Skyline to a kid without a RWC. I made him pay for it in full and then he went away and got his own dodgy cert. He then came back with it and I filled out the transfer papers with the RWC no. and off he went, never to be heard from again. I had all his details so if anything turned up in the mail I simply sent it back with his details on it.

Nothing turned up

Matty

[JG65TE]

hey ya bear. I do it heaps mate, fill out the transfer form, get the buyer to do their bit, drop it into vic roads and they will send out the reminder for 30 days like ya said. last one i did was in march.

[Bearman]

Originally Posted by davway

You really think that will happen?
What is more likely to happen is:
They take the car, dont transfer anything over to their name and you cop all of the speeding/toll fines since the car is still in your name.
You ask them to transfer it, they tell you to F.O and your left with the fines.

No RWC = no number plates left on the car.
Your silly if you do it any other way.

Originally Posted by pauljh74

You get them to fill out their details on the Vicroads transfer form and keep a copy. If they rack up fines, nominate the driver using the provided details. The seller would also have a copy of a written receipt stating that the buyer has paid $X for car Y on the date of sale. This can also be used to prove the vehicle has been sold even if the details from the buyer are dodgy. The fines can come to the seller, but they won't stick.

Selling without RWC - the seller can fill out the form and the new owner can supply the RWC and submit the form to Vicroads at that time.

This is what I was thinking - We (the seller) would keep a copy of the transfer paperwork and sale receipt. This to safeguard us against the seller not putting it into their name.

We did this before, around 5 years ago we sold my Mother-in-Law's car with RWC and the lazy little sod didn't bother with the transfer. Sure enough some fines appeared and these were easily refuted because we'd kept a copy of the transfer, receipt and RWC.

Thanks to everyone for their advice. I'm just trying to find out if we could face any kind of sanction from VicRoads by selling a car as described in my original post. Doesn't sound like it!!

[Bearman]

Originally Posted by Matty4

Years ago I sold my Skyline to a kid without a RWC. I made him pay for it in full and then he went away and got his own dodgy cert. He then came back with it and I filled out the transfer papers with the RWC no. and off he went, never to be heard from again. I had all his details so if anything turned up in the mail I simply sent it back with his details on it.

Hi Matty, we recently bought a ute this way, although we couldn't find anyone to do a dodgy RWC!! Got a legit one and it cost plenty!! The seller gave us the transfer paperwork all filled out, signed but not dated. Once we got the RWC we filled in those details, dated the form and sent it all in. No hassles. The seller put plenty of trust in us.

What I'm looking to do differently is have the seller send in the paperwork straight away with the RWC details blank and we send in a copy ourselves so the change of name is notified. VicRoads can then get on the buyers case regarding the RWC.

[Dave3911]

Originally Posted by Bearman

Hi Matty, we recently bought a ute this way, although we couldn't find anyone to do a dodgy RWC!! Got a legit one and it cost plenty!!

Damn those people not risking their livelihood so you can break the law.....

What I'm looking to do differently is have the seller send in the paperwork straight away with the RWC details blank and we send in a copy ourselves so the change of name is notified. VicRoads can then get on the buyers case regarding the RWC.

The name wont change on anything until the transfer is completed, which will need the RWC. Your plan won't achieve anything.

[gtxb67]

does it need to be sold with rego - can't you get a roadworthy check done to show what needs to be fixed and then give them the car without rego. even without rego, they just have to give a roadworthy certificate within 30 days to get rego again don't they

you can probably use the 2 methods described, but i would think it would not be a hassle for the new owner to do it right - and you would not have to worry about any fines coming your way, no matter how easy they are to give to the rightful recipient

[sudszy]

Anyone selling the car without cancelling the rego and taking off the plates without a rwc opens themselves open to all sorts of nonsense.

For starters what do you do when the buyer never bothers to get the rwc and get the paper work done.

You are still the registered owner if anything happens to that vehicle, its your **** that could appear in court if that vehicle causes damage.

Im not talking speeding fines here, yeh having the signature of someone that took the car is fine for that, but the what ifs when that vehicle causes property damage due to a failure in the vehicle itself. The scenarios are endless, vehicle causes damage while it is parked in a public place, handbrake cable fails and vehicle causes massive property damage, its all the registered owner's responsibilty.

[Simple6]

In NSW we sell cars with rego and its up to the buyer to transfer it into their name. If they don't then its a min $90 fine.

The other thing is that the seller keeps a part of the signed rego papers and can drop that into the RTA or submit online a notice of disposal.

So you guys worrying about the buyer not transferring into their name, that's normal up here and i don't have an issue with it really.

[pauljh74]

Originally Posted by sudszy

Anyone selling the car without cancelling the rego and taking off the plates without a rwc opens themselves open to all sorts of nonsense.

For starters what do you do when the buyer never bothers to get the rwc and get the paper work done.

You are still the registered owner if anything happens to that vehicle, its your **** that could appear in court if that vehicle causes damage.

Im not talking speeding fines here, yeh having the signature of someone that took the car is fine for that, but the what ifs when that vehicle causes property damage due to a failure in the vehicle itself. The scenarios are endless, vehicle causes damage while it is parked in a public place, handbrake cable fails and vehicle causes massive property damage, its all the registered owner's responsibility.

But you have a copy of a partially completed form with the buyer's license details on it and a signed receipt for the sale. Even if the details are false, it will demonstrate you sold it and it is no longer in your possession.
I wouldn't let a car go without having this information

[MattSAU2XR8]

Heaps of people seem to sell cars without RWCs but still registered and its pretty hard to work out why...

1. They aren't really saving any time or money since the car is worth less without a RWC - the buyer will just subtract the cost of RWC and repairs needed and a little extra to compensate for the 'gamble' of buying this car in the first place from their offer .

2. If the seller simply doesn't have the money to pay for the repairs needed then selling the car with a report of what's needed and a 30 day permit might be a better option - this could be paid for out of the rego refund when they cancel the rego.

As people have said above, it probably won't go wrong, but it can. Worst case scenario would be if the buyer ran into something expensive, i.e. house, traffic lights, shopping centre, kindergarten, fuel tanker etc.. and you got hit up for part of the costs. Probably won't happen, but then you probably won't make any extra money buy selling the car registered with no roady either.

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by MattSAU2XR8

As people have said above, it probably won't go wrong, but it can. Worst case scenario would be if the buyer ran into something expensive, i.e. house, traffic lights, shopping centre, kindergarten, fuel tanker etc.. and you got hit up for part of the costs. Probably won't happen, but then you probably won't make any extra money buy selling the car registered with no roady either.

one possible problem is if the buyer hits something real expensive or people and dies while doing it. who then is liable - the registered owner of the car or the deceased's family. in our world, someone will be sued - it may not be a problem, but to me it creates too many potential hassles and as you said, there is not really much to be saved by doing it

[sudszy]

Originally Posted by MattSAU2XR8

but then you probably won't make any extra money buy selling the car registered with no roady either.

The attraction or motivation here in vic is that if you sell it unreg, the buyer has to turn up to vicroads office with the vehicle once they have got a rwc to get plates etc, and that risks vicroads having a squiz at it, checking numbers, only the potential for problems.

it is certainly a lot less hassle for the buyer if they get it sold with it still registered and they get the rwc then send in the paper work, hence why they are keen to take that avenue and will possilby part with a few more Kingsfords smiths for the privledge.

[munkky]

Originally Posted by JG65TE

hey ya bear. I do it heaps mate, fill out the transfer form, get the buyer to do their bit, drop it into vic roads and they will send out the reminder for 30 days like ya said. last one i did was in march.

100% true you the seller dose not have to provide a road worthy. Me and my dad has done it 100's of times

[80rs]

just get the buyer to fill in the transfer form and hand in a copy to vicroads and the car is out of you name straight away. The buyer will get a letter stating they need to produce the rwc and pay the fees within 30days or rego will be suspended. Its that simple. Its basically the same as if you buy a registered car at the auctions and the auction house just sends vicroads the details

[Auslandau]

Craig ..... I have bought so many cars with rego and no RWC and sold the same heaps. Last one was only 6 weeks ago and just completed the RWC and transfers now into my name. I much prefer to buy something registered and not with RWC and go get my own. Its not a drama.

As far as any speed cameras or City link tags etc ...... you have the transfer papers with the date of sale and you can do exactly as 80rs said above.

Piece of cake and easier to sell than an un regoed car and if the car is cheap and cant not worth the RWC to sell .... don't bother.

Vic Roads just wants to see the RWC report on transfer .....

[sudszy]

Originally Posted by 80rs

just get the buyer to fill in the transfer form and hand in a copy to vicroads and the car is out of you name straight away. The buyer will get a letter stating they need to produce the rwc and pay the fees within 30days or rego will be suspended. Its that simple. Its basically the same as if you buy a registered car at the auctions and the auction house just sends vicroads the details

Dont think so, check the transfer form: http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/NR/rd...ration0710.pdf

The rwc details need to be attached/completed before the transfer can be processed.

[drew`SEVNT5]

Originally Posted by sudszy

Dont think so, check the transfer form: http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/NR/rd...ration0710.pdf

The rwc details need to be attached/completed before the transfer can be processed.

Do you live in Victoria?

Have you sold/bought a car with rego but no RWC recently?

If you answer 'No' to both of those questions, how about you just sit in the corner and be quiet.

I have sold cars without RWC, just sent in the transfer slip, and the new owner gets a letter saying "30 days, blah blah blah, cancelled rego"

Just like a car I bought to part out, it still had Rego on it, and the old owner sent in the form, I got the letter, and threw it out, due to the fact the car was in 100 pieces, and was never going to see the road.

[sudszy]

Originally Posted by drew`SEVNT5

Do you live in Victoria?

Have you sold/bought a car with rego but no RWC recently?

If you answer 'No' to both of those questions, how about you just sit in the corner and be quiet.

I have sold cars without RWC, just sent in the transfer slip, and the new owner gets a letter saying "30 days, blah blah blah, cancelled rego"

Just like a car I bought to part out, it still had Rego on it, and the old owner sent in the form, I got the letter, and threw it out, due to the fact the car was in 100 pieces, and was never going to see the road.

Yes, I live in Vic, but how or why would I have sold cars with rego and without rwc if I was true to what Im saying on this forum? I have followed the vicroads procedure in selling 3 cars in the last 3 years without rwc by cancelling the rego and handing in the plates.

the form leaves no other alternative as you have described.

Is there a problem with the form that Im accessing of vicroads site right now, please let us all know if this form has been superceded.

My understanding of the basic english on the form is the ownership is in your name until the rwc is produced or you hand in the plates to vicroads, but please direct everyone to the form which allows the new owner 30 days to get a rwc and to have the vehicle registered in their name during that 30 days.

[atec77]

Originally Posted by Bearman

One of our family fleet will be up for sale soon. We'd like to sell it registered but with no RWC if possible. I know VicRoads says "no", it either has to be with a RWC or unregistered as is.

Looking at the scenario we'd sell it registered, do the paperwork etc but have no RWC. The buyer would then submit the paperwork and "forget" to put in the RWC. My understanding is that VicRoads will then write to the buyer and give them 30 days to lodge the RWC otherwise the rego will be cancelled. If the buyer gets the RWC and submits it within the 30 days then all's sweet.

Is this still the case?? Has anyone here recently bought a car in these circumstances?? Was there any comeback from VicRoads??

Also, have any sellers copped any flak from VicRoads for doing this? Obviously if they have copped grief from VicRoads we won't go down this path.

Very interested to hear from anyone with meaningful advice. Feel free to reply via PM if privacy is a concern.

what should happen is you give them permission to drive for a week or ten days , a letter to that effect and keep a plate , if no rwc is evident in that period it gets deregistered , you are covered and they admit liability after a time and date
or sold no rego , anything else is stupid

[Dave3911]

From someone who's job it is to check these rego's day in day out - I can tell you guys right now that the transfer does not go through until the RWC is provided and the registration remains in the name of the seller.

Yes Vicroads do chase the buyer for it if the seller produces a form and yes they send out letters as advised but that doesn't mean its now in their name. The transfer only occurs once the paperwork is completed.

[aussie muscle]

Originally Posted by Pinkbits

The last car i bought was from a ford dealer in NSW and as it had only 2 mths reg left they had no problems with me taking it with the plates without a "blue slip" i think they refer to them up there as they knew i would be re-registering it here.

this is because NSW has yearly RWC (after 3 years old), the RWC isn't required when selling the car, but the RTA has a 'notice of disposal' form to let them know the new owner.

[Bearman]

Originally Posted by Dave3911

Damn those people not risking their livelihood so you can break the law.....

Well thank you for the lecture.

If someone does choose to place that level of trust in me I make damn sure the RW tester is looked after and not dropped in it. There is no way I'd expect anything dangerous to be let through, just the nit picky stuff!!

Originally Posted by Dave3911

From someone who's job it is to check these rego's day in day out - I can tell you guys right now that the transfer does not go through until the RWC is provided and the registration remains in the name of the seller.

Yes Vicroads do chase the buyer for it if the seller produces a form and yes they send out letters as advised but that doesn't mean its now in their name. The transfer only occurs once the paperwork is completed.

This is helpful info, thanks for that. Understood, the transfer is not completed but isn't it in the system and flagged as "pending" or something like that? The fact that the seller is contacted by VicRoads and asked to produce a RWC suggests this. Therefore if the buyer does rack up some fines etc wouldn't they just go straight to him? If not, I would still have a copy of the transfer, receipt issued and the buyers details to refute any liability on my part.

Originally Posted by drew`SEVNT5

I have sold cars without RWC, just sent in the transfer slip, and the new owner gets a letter saying "30 days, blah blah blah, cancelled rego"

Just like a car I bought to part out, it still had Rego on it, and the old owner sent in the form, I got the letter, and threw it out, due to the fact the car was in 100 pieces, and was never going to see the road.

This is in line with the majority so far. It's obviously widely practiced otherwise why are there so many cars advertised for sale with Rego but no RWC??

When the time comes I'll see what the car needs for a RWC and decide from there which way I'll go. It's a very decent and presentable car but you never can tell.