Direct Injection

[ryeman]

I wonder how many Aussies are aware that the Mazda6 is specified to run on 91RON with a cr of 13-1 (diesel 14-1) and the 1.5 ton car achieves 6.6L/100km.
The EcoLpi Falcon as result of he ~110RON equivalent has a cr of 12-1.
FWD or not, that's the competition so to compete can we expect the 2014 Falcon to at least keep up?......unfortunately Ford Detroit sees its future profits coming from the F150-250-350-450 with a little bit of help from the FWD Fusion n Focus. :-/

[XR Martin]

Mazda 6 does 0-100 in 8 seconds, EcoLpi does it in under 7. Enough said.

[chookaradley]

Give us a Direct injection I6 Ford...... Pleeeeeeease!

220kw 440nm

8.7l/100km

Sign me up for one now!!!

[ryeman]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

Mazda 6 does 0-100 in 8 seconds, EcoLpi does it in under 7. Enough said.

So there's no problem cos that's the general publics priority, right?
So you think Falcon is going to survive thru its greater performance up a mountain straight?

[K93George]

I don't understand what the 91, 110RON and CR's have to do with your economy figures. I read it as you are saying, the Mazda petrol engine can run on 91RON and a CR of 13:0 : 1 without pinging while getting an amazing 6.6lt/100. The issue here is that it is a 2.5lt N/A. The I6 petrol has 60% larger capacity, 41% more power and 59% more torque but uses 50% more fuel. That sounds about right to me. What do you expect from it, its a 4lt 6 vs. a 2.5lt 4


A better comparison would be to a similar econo-box type engine. Such as the one used in the Mondeo which at first glance looks terrible. With 9.5lt/100km and less power/ torque figures then the Mazda6 that is just sad. But a comparison to the I6 is not just.

The diesel engine in the Mondeo looks good though. Although we would need to compare it to the diesel Mazda has on offer. If everyone is REALLY chasing economy they wouldn't be buying SUVs. For the people who are Ford offers the Mondeo Diesel and for those who want an SUV you have the Territory, if you want a large sedan you have the Falcon. I'm just glad I am not hired to get to the bottom of it and work out a future road map for Ford Australia, it looks like they got it all right but it doesn't seem to be enough.

[prydey]

how about we get a falcon, and a mazda6. put a family of 4 in them both (2 adults, 2 kids), boot full of luggage and set off down the highway.

i wonder which family would hop out at the end feeling the freshest? i wonder how much better on fuel the mazda6 would really be!

it is unfair to compare the falcon to every other car on the market and then nit pick the falcon. the diversity of the market place now guarantees there is a vehicle to suit every persons needs and wants and desires. the falcon still ticks the box of a small segment of people.

[Windsor220]

What about the ecoboost? Would probably be a bit more comparable.

2.0l 179kw/353Nm 1.7 ton 8.1/100km.
2.5l 135kw/250Nm 1.5 ton 6.6/100km

Falcon has more power and weight. Fuel consumption is about right.

[XR Martin]

I would also think the 8.1L/100 km in an ecoboost Falcon is more easily obtained than the 6.6L in the Mazda.

Also the highway figures for the Ecoboost is much the same as the Mazda. (in the US its listed at 38mpg highway, or 6.1L/100km)

EDIT:
Review here averaged 9L/100km, which is probably more real world
http://www.themotorreport.com.au/557...ad-test-review

[Agent86]

whats diesel CR got to do with it either?

BTW, that is a touch low anyway. my diesel is around 17:1 with 32 psi of induction pressure on top.. The way diesels work vs petrol makes them almost incomparable for anything

[wrongwaynorris]

Hook up a 2 tonne trailer behind the Mazda , Oh sorry it can't do it .

This whole beat up thread is a silly comparison to say the least . Is Ryeman Josh Dowlings alter ego ?

[ratter]

our fuel is not good enough to get the benefits of direct injection,if it was we could see afrs of over 20:1

[ryeman]

38mpg if that is US then add 20% for Oz say 45.6.
The rest....where to start....a graph of comparative sale figures...a graph of local investment in in technology ....fuel figures are equally comparative, you can't cherry-pick the results.
The fact that we love our out-of-fashion RWD Falcons in all their guises, is of zero consequences to Detroit management.
Realistically the KUGA (FWD)and hopefully the Terri (RWD) as well(?) are the future because that IS the future combined with Fusion/Focus/Fiesta.....you don't have to be a genius to see what staring you in the face...BTW Kuga 0-60 in 5sec!!

[mik]

i don`t know that direct injection in petrol engines are the bee all anyway, waiting to see how they fare as the mileage gets up there.

[ryeman]

Originally Posted by mik

i don`t know that direct injection in petrol engines are the bee all anyway, waiting to see how they fare as the mileage gets up there.

Cars are 10yr white goods cos like computers no one wants 10 yr old tech.
Restorations will be a thing of the past exc for old Oz cars.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by mik

i don`t know that direct injection in petrol engines are the bee all anyway, waiting to see how they fare as the mileage gets up there.

I think it would be known by now. Didn't Mitsuibishi introduce it (not invent it) in '96.
Didn't Ford have it also in 2001 with the Mondeo?

[ryeman]

Ten year old tech.....a butchered, cast iron V8 with pushrods and a balance shaft to offset the 90deg V6 s problems, the maker was Holden and how many we're exported...bugger all. Now, a quad cam all alloy direct injection 60deg V6, just 10 years ago, which was simply par for the course, in terms of tech development. But that's not all....technology/science advances are a bell curve projection ie they are constantly accelerating ...picking a winner there is simply gambling.

[FalconXV]

The O/S models (Mazdas) get a 14:1 CR, ours is lowered for obvious reasons.

Imagine how smooth a Falcon six would be with direct injection ( pref combined with MPFI to keep the valves clean) and the ZF 8-speed auto. Do you think they would be testing the latter? (I know they said they're getting 2nd 6 spd but they wouldn't reveal EVERYTHING surely).

[ryeman]

Originally Posted by FalconXV

The O/S models (Mazdas) get a 14:1 CR, ours is lowered for obvious reasons.

Imagine how smooth a Falcon six would be with direct injection ( pref combined with MPFI to keep the valves clean) and the ZF 8-speed auto. Do you think they would be testing the latter? (I know they said they're getting 2nd 6 spd but they wouldn't reveal EVERYTHING surely).

The question then is, to whom would they then export it to...it's all about unit numbers v unfortunately....:-((

[wrongwaynorris]

Originally Posted by ryeman

Ten year old tech.....a butchered, cast iron V8 with pushrods and a balance shaft to offset the 90deg V6 s problems, the maker was Holden and how many we're exported...bugger all. Now, a quad cam all alloy direct injection 60deg V6, just 10 years ago, which was simply par for the course, in terms of tech development. But that's not all....technology/science advances are a bell curve projection ie they are constantly accelerating ...picking a winner there is simply gambling.

Once again in English please .

[mik]

dunno Wretched, you might be right, some engines have had carboning up problems but my understanding is they have to run them a bit leaner to stop carboning up, time will tell i guess .

[ratter]

direct injection engines are designed to run very lean in the right circumstances, our fuel is no good for these engines and causes issues

[XR Martin]

Problem with direct injection engines is there isnt the 'wash' of fuel in the intake ports to keep them clean. Just about all DI engines are having sludging issues in the head port area.

Toyota have solved that issue by having both DI and port injection on the same engine. (various Lexus' and the 86)

Its also got nothing to do with fuel quality.

[XR Martin]

BMW 335



Mini



Audi RS4

[ryeman]

Originally Posted by ratter

direct injection engines are designed to run very lean in the right circumstances, our fuel is no good for these engines and causes issues

Oh we'll there goes Mazda reputation, it'll send the broke....?

[XR Martin]

Double post

[ryeman]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

Problem with direct injection engines is there isnt the 'wash' of fuel in the intake ports to keep them clean. Just about all DI engines are having sludging issues in the head port area.

Toyota have solved that issue by having both DI and port injection on the same engine. (various Lexus' and the 86)

Its also got nothing to do with fuel quality.

And Holden's DI V6?

[ratter]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

Its also got nothing to do with fuel quality.

our fuel quality stops many of the Stratified Injection protocols being used which allow the very lean afr's which give greater fuel economy and cleaner emissions

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by ratter

our fuel quality stops many of the Stratified Injection protocols being used which allow the very lean afr's which give greater fuel economy and cleaner emissions

But fuel quality has nothing to do with the carboning up of DI engines, which is what I was referring to.

[ratter]

I was not talking about carboning of engines, I was talking about why some run lean and trying to explain it was not about carboning

[ryeman]

Just to clarify ... I am referring to an Oz ADR'd and registered Mazda6 designed to run on OUR 3rd world fuel.