Come Home Geoff!

[bathurst77]

Ford REALLY need to do something. They are rapidly becoming a one car company (OK two Falcon and territoy)
Their LWB luxo market sales are shot.. they used to be leaders in the 70s-80s and 1st half of 90s

Now that the market for small cars is growing, Ford arent getting share.
They dont have any Mid size "cortina/Telstar" car.
Focus is laser/escort replacement and Fiesta is smaller again. (at least iin market perception)

They need a car between focus and falcon. A to 2 to 3 litre sedan and wagon, available as a low cost povo pack "family/fleet car" 4cyl and a sports and super-luxury, small v6 versions.
Maybe 2 cars. An Asian car for the low end, and a Mondeo variant for the sports luxury car. Take on Liberty/626/accord head on and hyundai/kia.

And they need to sell high profit luxury again. they need to toally revamp restyle and reinvent fairlane as a euro challenger.

Where is Uncle Tom G? The last comment i heard from himm was that Ford was going to concentrate on reviving the LWB market.. I hasnt happened.
Geoff P was avery proactive leader, out there finding out what people wanted and making cars to suit. Geoff was always in touch in forums, answering emails, we never hear from Tom G. Is he just another American seat warming yes man?

Geoff P brought us BA, FPV and Territory and got Ford back seriously into motorsport, what has Tom brought us, a few unexciting (tho worthy) falcon facelifts.

:jab:

[The Stylist]

Originally Posted by bathurst77

what has Tom brought us, a few unexciting (tho worthy) falcon facelifts.

I don't think that is a fair statement, Tom Gorman hasn't been in the job that long and there are product lifecycle plans already set in place before he arrived. An all new Falcon is due in 2008 and that's the earliest if any new LWB Fairlane decides to come along. It has been said in the past few days that the all new Mondeo sedan may come to Australia next year, however don't expect to find any cheap Asian alternatives because there aren't any.

[XR Martin]

Mondeo would cost similar to what Falcon would, if not more.
Only reason we get the Focus affordable is because its from SA, not Europe. Unfortunatly we dont have that option with Mondeo. A base model Mondeo in the UK costs an equivalent of $40k

Fairlane and LTD are dead, why spend big dollars on a tarted up Falcon if you can get a BMW or Merc.
Holden can only justifying building the Stato and Caprice is because they export to the Middle East.

[AWD Chaser]

Originally Posted by bathurst77

They need a car between focus and falcon. A to 2 to 3 litre sedan and wagon, available as a low cost povo pack "family/fleet car" 4cyl and a sports and super-luxury, small v6 versions.
Maybe 2 cars. An Asian car for the low end, and a Mondeo variant for the sports luxury car. Take on Liberty/626/accord head on and hyundai/kia.

And they need to sell high profit luxury again. they need to toally revamp restyle and reinvent fairlane as a euro challenger.

Where is Uncle Tom G? The last comment i heard from himm was that Ford was going to concentrate on reviving the LWB market.. I hasnt happened.
Geoff P was avery proactive leader, out there finding out what people wanted and making cars to suit. Geoff was always in touch in forums, answering emails, we never hear from Tom G. Is he just another American seat warming yes man?

Geoff P brought us BA, FPV and Territory and got Ford back seriously into motorsport, what has Tom brought us, a few unexciting (tho worthy) falcon facelifts.

:jab:

What about the upcoming FPV Force 6 and Force 8? Hopefully that will be their answer to the LWB Luxo market, and use that as their comeback starting point.

The Focus is a good enough small sedan, and so is the Focus XR5....

Just wait until the Festiva XR4 is unveiled... that should be a very nice car if they keep the good styling ideas from the XR5....

The next 5 years will be a very intersting time for Ford Australia. I think that their model lineup is fantastic as it is....

[MoreHPformyXR6]

Originally Posted by bathurst77

They need a car between focus and falcon. A to 2 to 3 litre sedan and wagon, available as a low cost povo pack "family/fleet car" 4cyl and a sports and super-luxury, small v6 versions.


:jab:

So when you start talking the size of Mazda 6 Subaru Liberty Honda Accord Euro. Do you think Ford would be able to sell enough volume in this market for it to be feasable? (I think not) It would cost as much as Falcon & also the 6, Liberty & Euro are great cars with good re-sale value renowed quality etc very tough market. It would love Ford & Holden to produce a locally built mid sized car same size as Torona/Cortina in "real wheel drive" with a 2L weighing in at around 1100kg or so with city economy better than 10L/100km. It aint going to happen IMO volume wouldnt be viable.

[Iphido]

Does anyone know whats GP is up to in germany anyway?

LWB market isn't dead. Just fords LWB.

Ford AUS needs a export market for the LWB. That should be one of Toms high priority. China, UAE, US, EU. with out it LWB will be permantly dead.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

Fairlane and LTD are dead, why spend big dollars on a tarted up Falcon if you can get a BMW or Merc.
Holden can only justifying building the Stato and Caprice is because they export to the Middle East.

Uh, because to buy the BMW (750i) or Mercedes (S500) equivalent to an LTD you need to spend almost $300,000.

For LTD money you can buy a BMW or Merc alright... a C280 or a 325i. That's not in the same market as an LTD. Its like half the size...

[Paxton]

Originally Posted by Iphido

Does anyone know whats GP is up to in germany anyway?

LWB market isn't dead. Just fords LWB.

Ford AUS needs a export market for the LWB. That should be one of Toms high priority. China, UAE, US, EU. with out it LWB will be permantly dead.

Uncle Goeff is running Land Rover and Jaguar in England.

I don't remember how well the Telstar sold, however I do remember that in 1992, a TX5 Ghia Hatch Auto was ~$39,000, which was the same price as an EB Ghia. So, if the Mondeo is called Telstar, and released as a premium product, say made in South Africa, yet with a price that is line ball to the 380's, Ford may have something that can compete with the Daewoo. I don't expect it to happen.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by Iphido

Does anyone know whats GP is up to in germany anyway?

He was promoted to CEO of Jaguar/Land Rover....
http://www.nextcar.com.au/n.ford.200...tes.05jul.html

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by Steffo

Uh, because to buy the BMW (750i) or Mercedes (S500) equivalent to an LTD you need to spend almost $300,000.

For LTD money you can buy a BMW or Merc alright... a C280 or a 325i. That's not in the same market as an LTD. Its like half the size...

Fact is people with $65-75k are no looking to buy a Fairy or LTD, they'd be at the BMW, Merc or Lexus dealers. (or even Chrysler dealer)

[BlueRaven]

but that has to do with quality of product too. Ford have a bad reputation of building oversized boring fridges.

[Paxton]

Originally Posted by BlueRaven

but that has to do with quality of product too. Ford have a bad reputation of building oversized boring fridges.

And Toyota?

Their quality might be good, however who gets excited by any of their cars?

[Lagom]

Originally Posted by au3 chaser

Just wait until the Festiva XR4 is unveiled... that should be a very nice car if they keep the good styling ideas from the XR5....

You know Ford have a branding problem when even car enthusiasts can't get it right ;)

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

Fact is people with $65-75k are no looking to buy a Fairy or LTD, they'd be at the BMW, Merc or Lexus dealers. (or even Chrysler dealer)

Not necessarily true. You'll find alot of those people driving Ford Territory Ghia's, Toyota Prado Grande's, Volkswagen Touareg V6's and R5 TDI's, because the large car market is pretty bad at the moment.

[Iphido]

Not everyone wants to drive around in a BMW or a Merc.

If you were doing business with someone and they turned up to meetings and appointments in a $300,000 car you might get the feeling your getting ripped off.

Where as driving a Holden or a Ford, even if its a $70k one, doesn't cause quite the same issues.

Have you guys seen the new caprice? Its pretty nice. If your after that type of car its pretty much in its own segment.

[XR Martin]

And if someone rocked up in a LTD you'd wonder what kind of successful business man drives around in a Falcon XT with chrome and is stupid enough to throw away 60%/$40k of its value in 3 years.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

And if someone rocked up in a LTD you'd wonder what kind of successful business man drives around in a Falcon XT with chrome and is stupid enough to throw away 60%/$40k of its value in 3 years.

You lose even more then that on the $300k BMW's and Merc's. And you can call them a tarted up 5-Series or E-Class, remember, they're taxis in their homeland too.

Your argument has no substance. There is a market for Fairlane/LTD, the product is just inadequate.

[XR Martin]

Why are you comparing $300k Mercs to a $65k Fairlane. They maybe of similar size, but are obviously not in the same segment, and the same people arnt buying them.
$300k market segment is a little smaller than the $65k segment.

Theres no market for a LWB Falcon with a bit of chrome that still looks like a cab.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

Why are you comparing $300k Mercs to a $65k Fairlane. They maybe of similar size, but are obviously not in the same segment, and the same people arnt buying them.
$300k market segment is a little smaller than the $65k segment.

Theres no market for a LWB Falcon with a bit of chrome that still looks like a cab.

They're them same genre of vehicle. LWB luxury/family. And there are often cases where they are actually head to head... such as Hire Cars, which can be a Fairlane Ghia or a Mercedes-Benz S600 (and yes I've seen both extremes).

I mean really, a BMW 7 is a tarted up BMW 5 then, so that means a Benz S is a tarted up E, A8 a tarted up A6... they're all pointless?

What about FPV? Tarted up taxi? The XRs? So everyone should buy XT's then, since, every other Ford made here is, essentially, a tarted up XT?

[rodderz]

I was under the impression the mondeo will go against the mid size market next year, with a few different motor variations between models. Should be a ripper of a car by all reports too

[XRQTOR]

One thing i have recently noticed is that you can buy a brand new SLK 55 AMG new in the states for under $7o,ooo us ($94,ooo au roughly) but over here they start at $169,ooo. Thats a huge difference in price, so you can only imagine the price difference on a $3oo,ooo+ car.

[Steffo]

Redbook...

2003 BMW 745I

E65 Sedan 4dr Auto 6sp 4.4i
Prices based on km 30,000 - 55,000
Trade in price guide* $98,500 - $106,200
National average price - private sale* $112,300 - $126,600
Price when new (RRP) $207,200

and...

2003 FORD LTD

BA Sedan 4dr SA 4sp 5.4i
Prices based on km 45,000 - 75,000
Trade in price guide* $25,600 - $28,800
National average price - private sale* $30,200 - $34,700
Price when new (RRP) $72,070

Looks like the BMW isn't much more of a value holder, % wise, then the LTD, but the outright figure is twice the LTD's because of the price. $80-$100k gone in 3 years compared to $40-$45k in the LTD's case. Nice.

The LWB luxo class is a poor seller no matter what vehicle, but what would be the incentive to buy a 745i over an LTD aside from the badge? You lose more money in the same amount of time and LESS km in a vehicle that doesn't actually do anything better then its cheaper counterpart... except possibly annoy (iDrive), oh, and cost you lots of money.

The Aussie LWB segment can do quite well, the vehicles need a touch of improving though. The LTD needs to be better differentiated from the Fairlane Ghia/G8.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by XRQTOR

One thing i have recently noticed is that you can buy a brand new SLK 55 AMG new in the states for under $7o,ooo us ($94,ooo au roughly) but over here they start at $169,ooo. Thats a huge difference in price, so you can only imagine the price difference on a $3oo,ooo+ car.

Because we pay a gazillion pointless taxes that they don't.

BMW M3 = $43,000 RRP (USA), $139,000 (AUS)

Porsche 911 Turbo = $122,900 RRP (USA), $327,000 (AUS)

etc etc.

[photn]

Originally Posted by au3 chaser

Just wait until the Festiva XR4 is unveiled... that should be a very nice car if they keep the good styling ideas from the XR5....

*cough* *cough* i believe its the FIESTA XR4......

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by Steffo

What about FPV? Tarted up taxi? The XRs? So everyone should buy XT's then, since, every other Ford made here is, essentially, a tarted up XT?

I could be wrong, but FPVs and XRs actually sell dont they? Which mean people want them!
LWB Falcons do not and have not for years, what do you think that means?
Thats a fact.

If you ran a company they'd be selling Adventras, LTDs, Avalons, 380s, Vectras etc etc. And wondering why they dont sell?

[S3SR]

all ford need is an 'australian' F-truck! but bigger than the americans'

or improve their small and mid range cars, and make 6sp auto STANDARD on xt and improve build quality, power and fuel economy. or release a few limited edition 'v8 supercars' like a Ford GT special - Ford Falcon GT-P lowndes edition???? with full supercar engine but restricted and more efficient but same bodykit and unique interior to get the Ford brand noticed again.

or just win some supercar races.

still need more POWER!!!!

[MAFIA]

You know Bathurst77 got a point. Screw the Euro ***** we need to bring back Aussie style LWB...And theres nothing Australian about the European Commonwhore and stato. I mean if they can invest good money on the BA and Territory project then what about the LWB. Yes Ford Ford and Geoff done a great job getting Ford back on top but com'on don't give some cheap Design attitude with " Just strech the Fairmont Ghia and add some more chrome". Like ford designer really gonna sell that. Seriously Ford LWB been selling so well from the 80's, 90's and AU's but with BA/BF what the hell were they thinking!!! : And don't blame the public for it poor sales blame Ford Designers!!!

Now i drive TL50 and what a great Luxury/Performance car it is! But Ford need to give the LWB Fairlane/LTD a makeover to make it class of it own! If they serously want to Beat Chrysler and Holden sales and catch the public eye, they need a LWB that say it all.

:monkes:

[LTDHO]

Ford killed the Fairlane and LTD. Now production will have to stop.

When was the last time there was advertising for them? I remember one ad in the last ten years!

Ford offered nothing for the LTD owner that the Faimont Ghia owner didn't get. No value for money.

[bathurst77]

Originally Posted by MoreHPformyXR6

So when you start talking the size of Mazda 6 Subaru Liberty Honda Accord Euro. Do you think Ford would be able to sell enough volume in this market for it to be feasable? (I think not) It .....snip... It aint going to happen IMO volume wouldnt be viable.

Telstar sold well.

Why cant they have a tiny car (fiesta/festiva)
small car (escort/Laser/focus)
medium car (Cortina/telstar)
big car Falcon
Limo (LTD)

[bathurst77]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

Theres no market for a LWB Falcon with a bit of chrome that still looks like a cab.

Then how do you explain the 30 years of success of fairlane/ltd and the current success of satesman?