Are we car enthusiasts being weeded out?

[homegrown]

Originally Posted by jpblue1000

If you are prepared to pay to associate yourself with a ,marque you must be a true enthusiast.

JP

Sorry usually off on a tangent but some Insurance companies agree with this too and offer discounts for being involved in a car club.

[jpblue1000]

Originally Posted by pottery beige

im sorry, i have nothing to with to do with any clubs and their petty nuances

i'm still an enthusiast

No doubt mate, and perhaps for every falcon enthusiast not in a club there is a corresponding jaguar enthusiast also not on a club etc.
The topic has morphed into what is an enthusiast and are they actualy enthused about Falcons and commodores or do they just own them to get from A to B. And I cannot think of a better way of quantitatively defining what an enthusiast is, for the sake of this discussion.

JP

[homegrown]

Originally Posted by pottery beige

im sorry, i have nothing to with to do with any clubs and their petty nuances

i'm still an enthusiast

image

gratuitous old school pic for this page

Great pic. If I can find someone with a video player I still have footage of your car screaming at its limits from the 1st Gazzanats. Awesome.

[GQ_Smooth]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

I think I'll make a prediction here and say that new Falcons and Commodores will probably never...outside of a niche market of high end builders...be "enthusiast cars", modded and changed around to the extent like we've seen with even early 2000's models of these two vehicles.

Think about it...chock-full of complicated electronic systems controlling everything, engines that can't be easily worked on by a home mechanic beyond a certain point, gearboxes that you daren't touch because of computer controls, interiors of carefully molded plastics that can't really (without a lot of expense) be mucked around with too much...the list goes on. Not to mention the sheer number of ADR's and emissions laws a new car has to meet that mean even changing something simple can easily mean getting it defected off the road in one of the increasingly-strict blitzes the authorities have now.

That's why most "modified" new cars you see are restricted to wheels...maybe a subtle body kit, and possibly a change of paint colour with interior being limited to a better stereo. That's about as far as the vast majority of people go with new cars these days.
Basically, they're such good cars as-is, that most people only make a few cosmetic changes, if anything at all.

And that's why old cars will always be popular...

Modern cars can still be modified and driven daily (in fact you probably get more bang for you buck modifying a modern car, particularly if it has forced induction). It's just not a simply of bolting bits on and off the car. Car needs to be tuned (preferably on a dyno). It's relatively easy if the tuner has the right software to plug into the engine management system and start adjusting what ever you like, from fuel mixture, to what temperature you want the cooling fan to kick in, modern cars are infinitely more modifiable if done correctly/properly. It does however take it out of 99.9999% of home mechanics hands and relies on a 3rd party to do the work.

On the down side, more things can and do go wrong with it, simply because there is more "stuff" that can break, particularly when voodoo (electronics) is involved.

[Hawkeye84]

1950s All these kids and their Motown music
1960s All these young kids and their rock n roll music - they will never know what Motown
1970s All these kids and their disco music- they will never know Rock n Roll
1980s All these kids and their RNB music - They will never know what disco is
1990s All these kids ant their Rap music - Rap music will kill RNB
1995 All these kids and their Grunge music - etc etc

I know alot of people (Kids, young adults and older adults) who listen to the Beatles, Queen, Metallica, Oasis, Bloodhound gang, Tupac, Michael Buble, Boyz to Men, Mariah Carey, Bee Gees, Otis Reading, etc...

The sky isnt going to fall - Car enthusiast will be car enthusiasts and will like any car if it has cred. Falons and Commordores wont be forgotten and its up to US CAR ENTHUSIAST to remind everyone what once was - the good times!

If i met an old time Falcon owner and all he talked about (ALL THE TIME) was Ford dumping the falcon, crap i wouldnt care about his car - all i would think is that he was an old whinging man who always whinges, it would probably turn me off the car and what the ownership of a Ford is truly about

[superyob]

A snapshot of young people who choose my Automotive subject at high school. When I do the spiel for what's on in the coming year I will finish with something that sounds like this:

"I also need to tell you that I am a muscle car fan." Big cheer from most students.
"If you are interested in imports, I don't know much about them but I will try to accommodate your interest if possible." The students will then generally point and laugh at the one student in the class who likes imports...

What does this mean in the bigger picture? Don't know, but my students are generally bogans like me...

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by homegrown

Great pic. If I can find someone with a video player I still have footage of your car screaming at its limits from the 1st Gazzanats. Awesome.

may be able scrounge a player Danny, get Xmas out of the ways and zip round shed de beige for a beer

[superyob]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye84

1950s All these kids and their Motown music
1960s All these young kids and their rock n roll music - they will never know what Motown
1970s All these kids and their disco music- they will never know Rock n Roll
1980s All these kids and their RNB music - They will never know what disco is
1990s All these kids ant their Rap music - Rap music will kill RNB
1995 All these kids and their Grunge music - etc etc

I know alot of people (Kids, young adults and older adults) who listen to the Beatles, Queen, Metallica, Oasis, Bloodhound gang, Tupac, Michael Buble, Boyz to Men, Mariah Carey, Bee Gees, Otis Reading, etc...

The sky isnt going to fall - Car enthusiast will be car enthusiasts and will like any car if it has cred. Falons and Commordores wont be forgotten and its up to US CAR ENTHUSIAST to remind everyone what once was - the good times!

If i met an old time Falcon owner and all he talked about (ALL THE TIME) was Ford dumping the falcon, crap i wouldnt care about his car - all i would think is that he was an old whinging man who always whinges, it would probably turn me off the car and what the ownership of a Ford is truly about

Disco was a mid to late 70s movement. Seventies rock and roll was perfected by T.Rex, Slade, Kiss, AC/DC, Black Sabbath, Led Zeppelin to name just a few...

[Hawkeye84]

Originally Posted by superyob

Disco was a mid to late 70s movement. Seventies rock and roll was perfected by T.Rex, Slade, Kiss, AC/DC, Black Sabbath, Led Zeppelin to name just a few...

Yeah some of those are chronologically wrong - but the point still stands

[HULK_I6T]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye84

1950s All these kids and their Motown music
1960s All these young kids and their rock n roll music - they will never know what Motown
1970s All these kids and their disco music- they will never know Rock n Roll
1980s All these kids and their RNB music - They will never know what disco is
1990s All these kids ant their Rap music - Rap music will kill RNB
1995 All these kids and their Grunge music - etc etc

I know alot of people (Kids, young adults and older adults) who listen to the Beatles, Queen, Metallica, Oasis, Bloodhound gang, Tupac, Michael Buble, Boyz to Men, Mariah Carey, Bee Gees, Otis Reading, etc...

its not about if we will forget the falcon!! There wont be any to see!!

We cant compare music to cars, music doesnt rust, wear out with use, need maintenence and parts. It dont need to be replenished.

The fact is by Falcon stopping production, each year less and less falcons will exist, no new following of the brand/model will exist. Music, you just download a mp3.

Like I said earlier we will be raiding the falcodore cookie jar for years until the cookie jar is empty. How many Atari 2600s are out there? how many are being used? How many people care? its likely to be the same with the falcodore.

[Dash_XR]

Originally Posted by jamies

My thought's exactly Dash, when I had my 68 XT and Esp's half the fun was searching for the hard to get bits,meeting the old fellas and enthusiasts who had cars tucked away in sheds and spare parts hidden.. I have met so many cool people over the years.

Exactly, even with newer cars it's still fun searching for parts or getting something cheaper because you put the effort into looking for it. Not to mention meeting other owners of similar cars and getting ideas. I think nearly every cosmetic thing I've done to mine so far is second hand. I only buy new if it's an important piece of hardware or engine related.

There is so many Fords out there of all different persuasions , the hardest parts probably picking a model.

I'd love to drop all my running gear into an XR one day.

[flooded one]

Originally Posted by landau460

I have read a little bit unfortunately not everything coming into these discussions late being busy as but have noticed that people are saying
No one want a big car or a big guzzling car which is why people are leaving them! But this has always been the case they have always been gas guzzlers they have aways been big and probably a lot more expensive. So why all of a sudden the mass move, and not just local. Is it the rediculous price of fuel. Is it the price of the crap flooding the market. Is it the unions/workers pushing up costs, maybe all of the above.
It's not that they are gas guzzlers or taxies in some people's minds.
My wife and I bought a corolla new 18 months ago
Didn't like the focus sedan so toyota was it but I can tell you I hate sitting in the back cramped in like a sardine in the back when the inlaws come for
A ride or I sit in back with bubs just to damn small!
Now we only have Camry to choose and expensive euro and the Camry not any better than corolla in width only longer we looked!

I'm a fan of large sedans, My comments was more so aimed at stevz who as picking on anyone that didn't buy a Falcon or Commodore.... the fact with the large sedans decline comes to the fact its not practical in a lot of peoples minds, they have moved to either smaller more economical cars or moved to the more practical SUVs, as for the interiors of Camry and Corolla you will find Camry to actually be bigger in width. try and fit a Camry rear seat into a Corolla. wont fit.

wider

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by f6_benito

its not about if we will forget the falcon!! There wont be any to see!!

We cant compare music to cars, music doesnt rust, wear out with use, need maintenence and parts. It dont need to be replenished.

The fact is by Falcon stopping production, each year less and less falcons will exist, no new following of the brand/model will exist. Music, you just download a mp3.

Like I said earlier we will be raiding the falcodore cookie jar for years until the cookie jar is empty. How many Atari 2600s are out there? how many are being used? How many people care? its likely to be the same with the falcodore.

youre starting to dribble repetitive **** in your own thread

as per usual hulk

so what is your actual / real life experience of the classic scene

over the last say 20 - 25yrs to current

no boring bbq talk

[Hawkeye84]

Originally Posted by f6_benito

its not about if we will forget the falcon!! There wont be any to see!!

We cant compare music to cars, music doesnt rust, wear out with use, need maintenence and parts. It dont need to be replenished.

The fact is by Falcon stopping production, each year less and less falcons will exist, no new following of the brand/model will exist. Music, you just download a mp3.

Like I said earlier we will be raiding the falcodore cookie jar for years until the cookie jar is empty. How many Atari 2600s are out there? how many are being used? How many people care? its likely to be the same with the falcodore.

Mate, you are missing my point.
You need to relax - like many other markets eg. Music, things change and open up in order for something in demand to live on -> Vinyl -> Beta -> Cassette -> CD -> Mini Disc -> MP3

With regards to the Car industry, how do you think Mini owners (like myself), VW Beetle owners, Mustang owners, AC Cobras or any classic mass produced car do it?

Theres an aftermarket industry that supported them after the company stopped supplying parts.

Im no Nostradamus , but im pretty sure when Ford stops producing parts for the Falcon there will be a demand for Falcon parts and if someone wanted to make alot of money - theyd start up business' for aftermarket falcon parts aimed at enthusiasts who want to keep their car running...

So to answer your original question about where car enthusiasts will be in 10 years - relax, if the aftermarket industry happens (and my thoughts are that it will after Ford stops production) and if Ford is still operating in Australia (even without the Falcon), i think they are going to be alright

[CyberWasp]

I think enthusiasts will be in for a treat in the not to distant future with restoring their favorite car.

3D Printing is in its infancy but soon you will be able to print or have printed any part you can think of in just about any material. All parts will be easily reproduced.

One step further I can see a time where a clean body shell is 3d scanned and reproduced in a similar way. Same with body panels.

I can't wait

[hedgehobb]

I will print a Ford Falcon.

edit:
Buy future 3-D printer
Print 3-D printer
Return 3-D printer
Profit

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by f6_benito

its not about if we will forget the falcon!! There wont be any to see!!

We cant compare music to cars, music doesnt rust, wear out with use, need maintenence and parts. It dont need to be replenished.

I can't buy a brand new Metallica 'The Unforgiven' 7in pic disk...didn't stop me from buying one this year...20 years after its release. Same goes with Falcons...you can't buy a brand new XY GT...does that stop anyone? Nope...Probally more XY GT's kicking around now then Ford released


The Falcon is more then well catered for, with enthusiastic companies run by enthusiasts who reproduce parts for the enthusiasts to stop there Falcon from rotting away. I wouldn't be surprised if you could buy reproduction shells in the future either...at least for the XW-XY and Hardtops...

The fact is, the Falcon has enough history behind it to keep enthusiasts happy.

Perhaps the only people being "weeded out" are those "enthusiasts" who's passion only lasts until 50000K's show up on the odo, or the lease runs out...

[HULK_I6T]

Originally Posted by pottery beige

youre starting to dribble repetitive **** in your own thread

as per usual hulk

so what is your actual / real life experience of the classic scene

over the last say 20 - 25yrs to current

no boring bbq talk

to be honest I dont fully understand it. To pay massive overs for inferior old cars seems odd to me.

I searched through carsales just today and saw a 1988 Bentley 6.9L Turbo excellent condition with low km for $30k. 750nm at 2000rpm and over $400,000 when new. Noted as one of the best cars in the world at the time.

http://www.carsales.com.au/private/d...?Cr=16&sdmvc=1

But then people are trying to sell XE ESP Fairmonth Ghias for $55k? they were under $20k brand new.

http://www.carsales.com.au/private/d...?Cr=63&sdmvc=1

When you process what other cars that can be bought for this money, just makes little sense.

These sellers hope that most of the responses above are wrong.....that us enthusiasts dont dispurse following the demise of the falcodore, otherwise their bubble will pop and they are left holding an old car. Thats the downsize of being an enthusiast, they try get us on emotion.

[Nikked]

Not this poop again, I remember you starting a thread about how you can't understand people buying older cars...that why you fail to comprehend how enthusiasm behind the badge will never end.


Its not the price, its the emotion and attachment to a particular car...$55000 XE ESP, or $5500 ED XR8...

[irish2]

Originally Posted by f6_benito

its not about if we will forget the falcon!! There wont be any to see!!

We cant compare music to cars, music doesnt rust, wear out with use, need maintenence and parts. It dont need to be replenished.

The fact is by Falcon stopping production, each year less and less falcons will exist, no new following of the brand/model will exist. Music, you just download a mp3.

Like I said earlier we will be raiding the falcodore cookie jar for years until the cookie jar is empty. How many Atari 2600s are out there? how many are being used? How many people care? its likely to be the same with the falcodore.

Bought a 65 mustang at the ripe old age of 20. It needs parts, and fuel. It will turn 50 in September next year. Don't think it will die anytime soon. I have owned it for 8 years, and don't plan on selling it ever.

[homegrown]

And yet Chrysler Days are massive and new generation of guys I know love their valiants and chargers. Whats their influence? Classic cars will always rule.

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by f6_benito

to be honest I dont fully understand it. To pay massive overs for inferior old cars seems odd to me.

I searched through carsales just today and saw a 1988 Bentley 6.9L Turbo excellent condition with low km for $30k. 750nm at 2000rpm and over $400,000 when new. Noted as one of the best cars in the world at the time.

http://www.carsales.com.au/private/d...?Cr=16&sdmvc=1

But then people are trying to sell XE ESP Fairmonth Ghias for $55k? they were under $20k brand new.

http://www.carsales.com.au/private/d...?Cr=63&sdmvc=1

When you process what other cars that can be bought for this money, just makes little sense.

These sellers hope that most of the responses above are wrong.....that us enthusiasts dont dispurse following the demise of the falcodore, otherwise their bubble will pop and they are left holding an old car. Thats the downsize of being an enthusiast, they try get us on emotion.

Bentley is a money pit and the ESP owner is fishing

just like you

[homegrown]

And as soon as someone can manufacture a x style crate body like the mustangs and chevys In the states we will slowly take over.
Also how many Ac Cobras replicas are being built. I hope this has relivance to the argument but here's a car that hasnt been in production for decades but the younger generations love them and will build them also.

[homegrown]

Replicate them sorry

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by f6_benito

to be honest I dont fully understand it. To pay massive overs for inferior old cars seems odd to me.

.

And here endeth the lesson ........

You dont need to understand, that is fine as it cannot be explained. I suppose its all about being emotionally connected, addicted, satisfied & having some enjoyment.

I dont understand the passion for PS4 but then, I don't try to understand it and definitely don't question why others are enthusiasts about them. Each to their own. As long as it keeps my son quiet ...... I am happy!

[Hawkeye84]

Originally Posted by f6_benito

to be honest I dont fully understand it. To pay massive overs for inferior old cars seems odd to.

You got to understand that like any other investments, classic cars also has money pitts. Some cars have more demand (are better investments) than others. Just because of the brand image Bentley has doesnt mean all cars like the 1988 model are instant classics. Now if we are talking about a 1930s Bentley............

Not only that, yes I do believe that car companies do play on our emotions, but thats because we are humans. We draw our emotions by the things we experience in life and it 100% affects our buying behaviour and patterns.

What is one mans junk is another mans treasure.

Yes, that EA S Pack falcon may not mean that much to me, but for someone else it was the car their child was born in, or the car they had their first date in etc.....being setimental beings, some would pay extra to re-live the nostalgia...........as said each to their own

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye84

1950s All these kids and their Motown music
1960s All these young kids and their rock n roll music - they will never know what Motown
1970s All these kids and their disco music- they will never know Rock n Roll
1980s All these kids and their RNB music - They will never know what disco is
1990s All these kids ant their Rap music - Rap music will kill RNB
1995 All these kids and their Grunge music - etc etc

I know alot of people (Kids, young adults and older adults) who listen to the Beatles, Queen, Metallica, Oasis, Bloodhound gang, Tupac, Michael Buble, Boyz to Men, Mariah Carey, Bee Gees, Otis Reading, etc...

The sky isnt going to fall - Car enthusiast will be car enthusiasts and will like any car if it has cred. Falons and Commordores wont be forgotten and its up to US CAR ENTHUSIAST to remind everyone what once was - the good times!

If i met an old time Falcon owner and all he talked about (ALL THE TIME) was Ford dumping the falcon, crap i wouldnt care about his car - all i would think is that he was an old whinging man who always whinges, it would probably turn me off the car and what the ownership of a Ford is truly about

BAM that's right fools....pity the guy who bags any respectable ford, espescially falcons at my barbiques! Or any nice car for that matter. Car enthusiasts won't die.....all the people buying depressing runabout little cars are the ones to worry about. I'd be near suicidal if I had to drive some boring 4 pot all day everyday......uuuurrrgghh!!

[93EB_SXR6]

To sum up this thread: each to their own.

[HULK_I6T]

Originally Posted by Auslandau

And here endeth the lesson ........

You dont need to understand, that is fine as it cannot be explained. I suppose its all about being emotionally connected, addicted, satisfied & having some enjoyment.

I dont understand the passion for PS4 but then, I don't try to understand it and definitely don't question why others are enthusiasts about them. Each to their own. As long as it keeps my son quiet ...... I am happy!

Auslandau, your right about people having different interests for many unknown and never to be explained reasons. But in the case of the bentley turbo r vs the xe esp fairmonth ghia, any person would assess the situation and surely come to the conclusion the bentley must be purchased ahead of the xe?? Thats where im lost how enthusiasts lose the ability to be rational and benchmark when it comes to older cars.

Im an enthusiast as much as anyone but ill never pay overs for an old falcodore. The demise of the falcodore is likely to promote this type of behaviour amongst enthusiasts. Some enthusiasts completely blinded not even considering what else can be bought for the same money.

but far worse is the opportunistic enthusiasts trying to cash in on others lack of judgement.

[93EB_SXR6]

Bentley parts are quite expensive and parts availability isn't great, also being a handmade car they can be fairly tricky to work on compared to the humble Ford Falcon. Something to consider.