Thousands risk driving ban

[private9]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Alot of the times its the people that can least afford it who get hammered. Thats not to say they should be immune, but when a law is obviously ridiculously harsh then something needs to be done.

I wonder if Mr Bracks has ever heard of the word tolerance, and more specifically mechanical tolerances. You would have a +/- with the camera's, and then we all know our speedo's have an error margin aswell.

Glad Im moving for Tassie for a few years, hopefully by the time Im back Bracks will be gone.

100% agree with everyone here that it's simply revenue raising and it's quite hypocritical to claim to want to stamp out all of these fines, but at the same to forecast an increase in the coming year.

I also agree that the tolerance levels are ridiculous in VIC, I think you can now get fined for being 2kms over the limit, while manufacturers only have to have to have the speedos in new cars within a 10% tolerance.

Having said all that, I still think that if you're doing say 10kms over the limit, you know you're doing it. And if you happen to get caught 4 times doing it and lose your license for it, then it's your own fault and you should just cop it sweet.

1 or 2 silly fines you can say are accidental, but if you end up copping a number of speeding fines and lose your license for it, I just don't think you can say it's not your own fault.

[blk_frmnt]

Originally Posted by burnz

i can see this comming to a state near you
http://www.speedcam.co.uk/gatso2.htm

Brilliant! If only we had such concerned and motivated citizens here.

[bob 351]

well let's seeall those licences suspended or canceld that would be good for there revenue we wont have to pay rego on the car's we own and then there is the toll's on the freeway's we wont have to pay that either so who's the big loser not to mention the fuel we won't use

[exrtnz]

Mate, you guys have got to start fighting back down there that sounds out of control!

[DOC]

Normally the limit is the limit and you play by the rules, but how you mexicans put up with all of that crap in Vic is amazing, not raising $ ? sure.

The people over there are great / good place to visit but speaking for myself i dread crossing the border \ 2k over, id loose my licence in a day, nt because i tried but because how stupid is to be watching the speedo every 2 seconds 10% tollerance and you can keep your ride in the groove.

Still SA has quietly put up its speeding fines twice now in recent months and yes all in the name of saftey.

[ltd]

I can't believe what they've done down in Brackistan, and this coming from someone who lives in the state formerly known as NSW, now known as President Carr and Iemma's republic.
Simple fact of the matter is that cameras have caused more accidents than they have prevented. Up here, we have cameras like on the spit bridge, which capture buses going up the hill doing 140km/h. There was 3 cameras on this stretch of 1km once, now there is 2. The problem is that cameras take peoples attention away from the road and their peripheral field of vision, for the sake of looking at their speedo's to ensure that they aren't over the limit. I have argued in court over the use of speed cameras and their alleged calibration. Everybody who gets caught by these alleged speed devices should elect to have the matter presented before a court. These cameras should be calibrated every day and you'd be amazed by how often they go out of kilter. The Road Tax Authority in Carr and Iemma's republic always try to defend them but the statistics don't lie. Our road toll has not reduced under the regime of camera substitution; (where cameras replace people ie police), it has gone up slightly. Small accidents have increased a whopping 63% under cameras, and the amount of people unlicenced, uninsured or unregistered has increased to over 25% of all PCIR drivers. This is what speed cameras do, just like reducing police numbers increases crime (come to sunny NSW where even your travel agent warns you about the gangs of Sydney).
For all the martyrs saying accept it; yes bracks and iemma cop it on the chin regularly, but why should we? As perennial jerk wad Robert Frost once penned, "do not go gentle into that good night" meaning don't be so submissive. (I remembered something from school...... How pharking horrifying).

[desGT]

VicRoads did not have a breakdown of the traffic offences committed by the 45,000 drivers at risk of losing their licences, but a spokeswoman said speeding was believed to have played a significant role

Ah, so no proof, but it MUST be speeding. Logical. Lets continue the propaganda about speed kills no matter what.

And for those who think that we should stop complaining and just do the speed limit, what do you think will happen when the money stops coming in? Suggest that the speed limits will just be dropped even more so that the cash flow keeps coming in.

And more ranting… If anyone thinks that the death rate of 151 compared to 153 is in anyway significant or even meaningful… (I’d better stop!)

[Sledgehammer]

Looks like the pollies have had a world conference on using these, LOL.

[MeLLy]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Simple, we know EXACTLY where every camera is in Vic...LOL

The one on the Hume suck though. :togo:

edit: And then your just in a lottery with HWP

Thats how most of us think in SA...we all know where the fixed cameras are, well i do....& the car cams are easy as to spot!

[MeLLy]

If you guys have such strong opinions about this then why dont you do something! road users make up a big percentage of their voters!
I think its wrong that you can only vote ppl in & you cant vote for what your state wants and needs,everytime they change something your the last to know.SA is creeping up the rediculous ladder, But VIC & NSW are leading the way...Anything you guys think of SA suddenly shows interest in and obviously they have gotten to the point where they have realised that there is so much money to be made by speed cameras that they are greedy and they wont stop.Thankfully i heard on the radio the other night that my state has rejected plans for yearly inspections on cars & road worthy certificates...Their reason?! Because the small amount of non road worthy cars are being detected anyways by our very own SAPOL so we do not need a system in place that makes the general good half of the public pay for yearly inspections.
But anything and everything is worth fighting court, you get a fine contest it!Never be submissive about it, never sit back and think oh i deserved this even if you did it, even if you didnt.
Court costs are 100 bucks extra if that and if you get a nice judge he will waver them anyways.Most judges see the stupidity in most fines & i've never used a lawyer & i have won both times that i have gone to court.
If you guys dont do something quick its going to keep getting worse and worse, speeding is just an excuse the figures have changed by 2...Thats absolute crap! Shouldnt you be expecting more?
And like someone said on this thread before, what do you think will happen when everyone stops speeding and the money dry's up, they will lower the speed limit and if that doesnt work find other ways to pin you for crap.
They need you to speed! They need the money to keep coming in!
Just like the government needs petrol prices to stay high, they had 2 taxes on petrol before the GST and they promised to remove them when the GST came in, but they are still there so now there is 3?!...There is always more money to be had.
Toll booths are another one, its basically like saying hey we built this freeway for you to get to sydney faster so you pay where and when we see fit, but your a un-heard puppet screaming! my tax money basically built that freeway!My speeding fines basically paid for that Freeway!
These Days its all about money & its B***S***!!!!!!

[Falcon_Crazy]

Two years agao whilst driving back from Clipsal 500, I was booked on the Pinagil Rd doing 7km/h over the limit by one of these contracted camera cars. 100Km to the west in SA, the limit was 110km/h, 100km to the North in NSW, same deal. i contacted VicRoads and requested details of accidents on this stretch of road in the previous 5 years.

The only death was an elderly driver in a single vehicle crash after suffering a heart attack. Other than this, the re were no deaths and only single vehicle crashes where weather was to blame (remember when it rained in the Malee).

Armed with this information and having never been snapped by a camera in any other state, I took the matter to the local court in Swan Hill. My case was heard by the magistrate via a submission i did in writing. The magistrate dismissed the fine and I only had to pay court costs (for not attending in person).

BTW, i never rely on the speedo in my BA. I have a proper GPS system (not a navigational thingy) and it shows how wrong my speedo is. At 100Km/h on the speedo, I'm doing 94Km/h. If you rely on your speedo, this is why you may see te Red beast pass you on the Hume but within the draconian limits and tolerances in VIC.

Was just in the Territory too - 130km/h Now and the cops are out enforcing it.

[VSSII]

$700 million is an amazing amount of money to give to the govt! In comparison NSW last year collected just under $200 million. Probably because our cameras have to have no less than 3 approaching warning signs.

[4Vman]

Makes you wonder what they're doing with the revenue, and how they managed without it before speed camera's...
Put it another way, if they removed or lowered the fines and associated gross revenue i wonder what tax would be increased to cover that loss of "income"?
I hate the cost of fines and speed camera's and the current state govt with a passion, but at least we have a choice as to weather we contribute to their revenue or not....

[chemonro]

Wellll... moooo. You can't get done for speeding unless you're going over the limit? But, if they really belive that speeding kills then why don't the gummint subsidise cruise control units? And I've always thought it'd be good to have a simple cruise control with presets for 60, 70, 80, 100, 110 etc so that when the speed zone changes you just press a button....

Che

[Riksta]

So wait, how much over the limit do you need to be doing to get done in Vic?

I'm thinking of driving over there in october for the AU Show N Shine, but I don't want to get done for doing 115km/h in a 110 zone by accident. I don't deliberately speed but occasionally look at the speedo to realise I am doing a bit over, so always slow it back down.

[kyro_02]

i think the laser gun is 3km/h, along with fixed and mobile cameras ... and i last heard you can get done for doing 1kph over the limit (if a cop is following you for distance)? which officer/s would waste their time though hehe =)

I just can't wait for the day when there is a 10kph tolerance for cameras etc etc .:

[Polyal]

3 kays over is fine, but thats it in Vic.

[DivHunter]

Not so sure a tyre fire is the way to go in Aust must find a total fire ban safe method.

[DOC]

Originally Posted by Riksta

So wait, how much over the limit do you need to be doing to get done in Vic?

I'm thinking of driving over there in october for the AU Show N Shine, but I don't want to get done for doing 115km/h in a 110 zone by accident. I don't deliberately speed but occasionally look at the speedo to realise I am doing a bit over, so always slow it back down.

Your funny 110 kph, Jokin, It's 100 kph from the border and you wont hit 110 kph till you can see melbourne out the front window.

2 tips, take a book to read while your bored crapless, and a pair of joggers so you can get out and run alongside the car to keep you awake every now and then.

[Falcon Coupe]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Makes you wonder what they're doing with the revenue, and how they managed without it before speed camera's...
Put it another way, if they removed or lowered the fines and associated gross revenue i wonder what tax would be increased to cover that loss of "income"?
I hate the cost of fines and speed camera's and the current state govt with a passion, but at least we have a choice as to weather we contribute to their revenue or not....

Well i know they ain't saving it for water, the water bills will double over the next 5 years to fund Slappas desalination plant (and helicopter rides to show us how good he is)
Mismanagement at it's best.

[forsaken]

I always assumed you had to be at least 6-7 km over, ie, 3+ km over after they take off their 3% "accuracy" amount.
but not 100% sure. I have received a fine for 104 in a 100 ("detected speed" 107km, fined for 104) from a roadside camera.

in my el i find the digital speedo seems to be very close to gps, but the dial reads approx 3-5km too fast.

[FPV8U]

Originally Posted by exrtnz

Stuff living down there!!

Im starting to think that... Seriously!

[HOON69]

I love QLD
lose your licence and you get a 2nd chance with 1 point 12months probational licence

hence why i'd never drive nor live in the revenue capital of australia (VICTORIA)

[colossus]

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”

Edmund Burke

[nugget378]

Originally Posted by HOON69

I love QLD
lose your licence and you get a 2nd chance with 1 point 12months probational licence

hence why i'd never drive nor live in the revenue capital of australia (VICTORIA)

We get 2 points for 12 months in NSW.
But some find it easier to do the 3 months :P

[Riksta]

Originally Posted by DOC

Your funny 110 kph, Jokin, It's 100 kph from the border and you wont hit 110 kph till you can see melbourne out the front window.

2 tips, take a book to read while your bored crapless, and a pair of joggers so you can get out and run alongside the car to keep you awake every now and then.

So you guys don't even HAVE 110 zones? :

OK if I do drive over for this thing I will have to be SUPER careful by the sound of it. I can't really afford to be paying speeding fines on top of petrol/accommodation etc!

Originally Posted by nugget378

We get 2 points for 12 months in NSW.
But some find it easier to do the 3 months :P

We get that in SA too if you lose your licence. I did it, and lost them so kissed my licence goodbye for 6 months (late 2004). I'm a LOT more sensible on the roads these days, it definitely taught me a lesson, but occasionally I'll creep over the limit without realising.

[4Vman]

There are 110 zones in Victoria. The Hume is 110 for most of it, and the Western HWY from at least Ballarat to Melton is 110.
You don't need to be over careful, just abserve the speed limits and don't exceede them by more than 5k's and you'll have no issues.

[jabba]

Originally Posted by Ralliart

Hey guys, read this on news about drivers losing their licenses, here is the whole artical
================================================== ========
Souce: The Age

Thousands risk driving ban



Mark Russell
June 24, 2007


MORE than 45,000 Victorian drivers are on the brink of losing their licences — and the proliferation of speed cameras is being blamed.

The Sunday Age can reveal that thousands of drivers are only just hanging on to their licences, sparking fears that jobs and family mobility are in jeopardy.

VicRoads figures show that as of May 31, there were 29,016 drivers with 10 demerit points and another 16,459 with 11 demerit points.

This is 9000 more drivers at risk of losing their licences than at the same time in 2005. VicRoads does not have figures for last year.

State Opposition Leader Ted Baillieu said he was staggered at the high number of drivers with so many demerit points.

"I don't think there's any doubt that this has been caused by the proliferation of speed cameras in Victoria," Mr Baillieu said.

"And there's no doubt Victorians believe that there is revenue-raising going on.

"It looks like we're on the cusp of an awful lot of people losing their licences, which will be of great concern to a lot of families and businesses."

But the Government and the Transport Accident Commission strongly defended the use of speed cameras in tackling the road toll, which stands at 151 compared with 153 at this time last year.

Police Minister Bob Cameron's spokesman, Alex Twomey, denied that speed cameras were being used as revenue-raisers.

VicRoads did not have a breakdown of the traffic offences committed by the 45,000 drivers at risk of losing their licences, but a spokeswoman said speeding was believed to have played a significant role.

The risk of drivers crashing doubled if they were speeding 5 km/h over the 60 km/h limit, the Transport Accident Commission said.

There are 3.6 million registered drivers in Victoria, and more than 150 speed cameras and 83 red light cameras operating to catch them out if they break the law. Drivers who lose 12 or more demerit points in any three-year period (and P-platers who get five points in a 12-month period) face having their licences suspended for three months, or they can agree to enter into a 12-month "bond".

If they incur any further point losses within this 12-month period, they lose their licence for six months.

The State Government hopes to reap $843 million in fines and regulatory fees, including speed camera revenue, in 2007-08, a 6.2 per cent increase on 2006-07's revised estimate of $793.3 million.

The increase has been attributed to several factors, including the re-establishment of the Western Ring Road camera network, the start of the Hume Freeway point-to-point speed camera system, completion of the roll-out of the red-light speed camera network and the annual indexation of fees and charges.

Fixed cameras are being used in eight locations along the Western Ring Road, with four operating in the Princes Freeway-bound direction, and four on the Hume-bound side.

Justice Department documents leaked to The Sunday Age show the number of Traffic Camera Office infringements issued in Victoria in 2005-06 was 1,079,169, worth $200 million. The number of TCO infringements from July 1 last year to February 28 this year was 806,760, worth $148 million.

The Sunday Age has revealed in a number of recent reports that many motorists are refusing to pay speeding, parking and tollway fines, with thousands sending them back marked "return to sender".

The amount owed by fine defaulters has leapt from $40 million 20 years ago to more than $1 billion this year. By the end of February this year, 346,373 speed camera fines, 86,757 on-the-spot police fines and 132,108 speeding tickets issued to motorists using the Burnley and Domain tunnels were unpaid — worth a total of more than $100 million. Revenue collected from fines forms part of the state budget.
================================================== =======

I am so glad I live in QLD

[Bill M]

[QUOTE=Riksta]So you guys don't even HAVE 110 zones? :[QUOTE]

I have noticed on the Princess Hwy past Pakenham the 110 kmh zones have diminished in length considerably. Private contractor speed cameras are not hard to spot if you are alert to what is going on around you.
cheers
Bill.

[MeLLy]

Originally Posted by HOON69

I love QLD
lose your licence and you get a 2nd chance with 1 point 12months probational licence

hence why i'd never drive nor live in the revenue capital of australia (VICTORIA)

When we lost our P's here we used to be able to appeal it, drive while we wait to go to court and then get it back instantly but the courts would add 6 months and then transport sa would add 6 months so it would be an extra year on your p license with just one point.
Instead of 6 months without it..
Now someone said to me its changed with the p1 & p2 thing they have brought in...Sounds stupid you re-apply after you've done your time and then you get a choice whether you take a curfew or the demirit points....
Wierd...
Theres too much law changing going on here in SA atm