Hsv Gts-r 2008

[irlewy86]

Oh, so HSV slot a 7 litre V8 into their Clubsport and hooray its more powerful than the 5.4l. But if you have a closer look the Ford motor produces more power per litre than the HSV. So am I going to have a cry in my Weet-Bix that HSV use the largest engine available to them and pump out better figures.... nah. It might have 380kw but its probably still stuck with the TL60E. at 120k I doubt they will be an everday sight.

And then you have the problem with some bogan super charging some old iron dumping it in a XD.

People who brag about power figures bore me (excuse the pun)

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by irlewy86

But if you have a closer look the Ford motor produces more power per litre than the HSV.

I'm interested. Does HP per litre actually prove anything, or is it just a bragging mechanism, used boy Honda fans?

They're notorious for it.

[CSV_LS1]

To make a true sports sedan it needs more than a big 'donk' at the front. Lighter aluminum panels and suspension made of lighter material. Same again for wheels. If you want to play with the big boys you do what needs to be done. Something like this wouldn't be a limited production with the costs involved. I'm guessing it would have to be sold in most major markets like Europe and the States to recoup the investment. Considering Orion is supposed to be made in left hand drive makes it makes for a great fantasy it could happen. Developed by prodrive at the nurburgring.

[irlewy86]

Originally Posted by Ryan

I'm interested. Does HP per litre actually prove anything, or is it just a bragging mechanism, used boy Honda fans?

They're notorious for it.

Yeah and the Fireblade is faster than any HSV, so I suppose maybe it does count.

At this rate GM must be devolping a 9 litre to battle the upcoming Ford Hurricane motor.

[FORD3V]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Didnt they got backwards at one stage too for the GTS to 297....?

I think they had 260 and 297 versions of the clubsport a couple of years after the original 300 gts.

[ClevlndStemer]

Originally Posted by irlewy86

Yeah and the Fireblade is faster than any HSV, so I suppose maybe it does count.

At this rate GM must be devolping a 9 litre to battle the upcoming Ford Hurricane motor.

Fireblade? That would be more power to weight thing than HP/L.
As for the Hurricane, is it out yet? Are there any numbers?
Power isn't everything it is also how good the vehicle is at putting that power to the ground.

[T3ts50]

Originally Posted by irlewy86

Yeah and the Fireblade is faster than any HSV, so I suppose maybe it does count.

At this rate GM must be devolping a 9 litre to battle the upcoming Ford Hurricane motor.

Not a 9 litre but a 6.3L s/c. Should be good for 600hp.

[majin_andrew]

Power figures aren't everything when it comes to making a good car.

But they are everything when it comes to sales.

[mattcosa]

Originally Posted by irlewy86

Oh, so HSV slot a 7 litre V8 into their Clubsport and hooray its more powerful than the 5.4l. But if you have a closer look the Ford motor produces more power per litre than the HSV.

Either way you cut it, HSV still have the best v8 performance engine.

The BOSS engine is a second rate performance engine to the LS series.

Put it in a truck with a supercharger, and yeah, different story. And thats what it was designed for, and thats why it's second rate in a performance sedan.

The next gen V8 couldnt come soon enough for FPV.

[3vXT]

Originally Posted by flappist

Ummmm, well they did deliver what is STILL the fastest accellerating full size motor vehicle in history of the Australian motor industry.........

So??? if it is so important why don't you put it in your signature.

The guy i quoted was suggesting that HSV don't deserve a pat on the back because they get their engines from a third party and i said that FPV aren't exactly shoveling out newer more powerful engines every week. The point i'm trying to make is that it doesn't really matter where the engines come from but feel free to plug your choice of car, even if it has next to nothing to do with it.

[Boss 5.4]

Originally Posted by Ryan

Yes they did. With the VY-VZ series.

KW just sells cars, and don't really mean anything.

Look at the SS. It's 270KW, and can beat a 290KW GT. (Sorry but it's the truth)
Also what about the XR6T beating the XR8 despite being 25KW down?

If you also want to go down that path the comparo of the New VE models showed that the SS (270kw) was also quicker than the 307kw GTS around the track... WTF? :

This whole thread sounds exactly like all the hype and talk about how great HSV is for bringing out the 427 Monaro..... by the way, how many of those did they sell??

Holden are great at sucking people in, wait until its here before its praised the be all and end all. At 125k I don't think we will see many, it is still a gimmick. the way the dollar is going, should be able to import a shelby cobra for less

Just turning into another LSx V Boss thread. :togo:

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by Boss 5.4

If you also want to go down that path the comparo of the New VE models showed that the SS (270kw) was also quicker than the 307kw GTS around the track... WTF? :

Whoops forgot to add that.

Well that just furthur reinforces the fact, that power isn't everything.

[fordAU]

Perhaps the performance key for Ford is less weight, that is if they are interested in matching GM in the outright speed war.

You don't need to up the horses each time to compensate for vehicles that are becoming very heavy.

Power to weight ratio is more important that KW figures.

[irlewy86]

Originally Posted by ClevlndStemer

Fireblade? That would be more power to weight thing than HP/L.
As for the Hurricane, is it out yet? Are there any numbers?
Power isn't everything it is also how good the vehicle is at putting that power to the ground.

Okay so the Fireblade puts out around about 118kw for a 1 litre engine. So even before power to weight comes into effect it is producing more than double that per litre of a Holden LSwhatever.

The Hurricane is rumored (just as the HSV GTSR is rumored) to be putting out 380kw from 6.2 litres out of the crate.

I love speculation

[flappist]

Originally Posted by ken2903

So??? if it is so important why don't you put it in your signature.

The guy i quoted was suggesting that HSV don't deserve a pat on the back because they get their engines from a third party and i said that FPV aren't exactly shoveling out newer more powerful engines every week. The point i'm trying to make is that it doesn't really matter where the engines come from but feel free to plug your choice of car, even if it has next to nothing to do with it.

You stated that FPV have done nothing in the past umpteen years except add 12kw.

I suggest they have done more than that. They have produced the quickest full size motor vehicle that is now several models old and still holds the title despite several upgrades by the opposition.

This is not a good thing?
This is not something for Ford enthusiests to be proud of?

Don't turn this into and anti-turbo or 6v8 slanging match or it will be locked and deleted.

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by irlewy86

Okay so the Fireblade puts out around about 118kw for a 1 litre engine. So even before power to weight comes into effect it is producing more than double that per litre of a Holden LSwhatever.

I know I mentioned that Honda fans use HP per litre, but why are we comparing a bloody motorbike engine, to a car engine?

That's even worse then when tools try comparing stock cars, to modified ones.

[irlewy86]

Originally Posted by Ryan

I know I mentioned that Honda fans use HP per litre, but why are we comparing a bloody motorbike engine, to a car engine?

That's even worse then when tools try comparing stock cars, to modified ones.

Yeah I know I was replying to ClevlndStemer.

Yeah it is pathetic when people completely change subject. Like whenever someone says "The Ford GT has 550hp" there is the reply "The corvette will go harder with an exhaust and chip". Or " Ford won Bathurst on the weekend" someone replies "HSV is releasing a GTSR with 380kw how do you like that FPV"

There are many more examples of people diverting the subject to enhance their position or reinforce their flawed argument. So I might as well sink to a level that average Joe can understand.

[mcnews]

Originally Posted by Bent8

Just to compare, the Merc AMG 6.2L makes the same power(and torque) as the GM 7.0L LS6...just pathetic if you ask me.

You are kidding right? And how much do you pay for the Merc?

[3vXT]

Originally Posted by flappist

You stated that FPV have done nothing in the past umpteen years except add 12kw.

I suggest they have done more than that. They have produced the quickest full size motor vehicle that is now several models old and still holds the title despite several upgrades by the opposition.

This is not a good thing?
This is not something for Ford enthusiests to be proud of?

Don't turn this into and anti-turbo or 6v8 slanging match or it will be locked and deleted.

What exactly have FPV done to the V8 (other than the recent 12kw) and 6cly engines since the GT and F6 were launched? Thats what i was stating. I'm not attacking the car, just saying that FPV are no better than HSV at upping their power figures each year.
The guy i quoted was ripping off HSV because they get their engines elsewhere. I believe it doesn't matter where the engines come from, what matters is the final product that people can go and buy and engines are only part of that anyway.
The turbo six is an awesome engine, and Ford enthusiests should be very proud. If i had 50 or 60K right now i'd have a Typhoon in my driveway tomorrow.

EDIT: and for the record, i dont think FPV should up the power every year. Off topic i know.

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by mcnews

You are kidding right? And how much do you pay for the Merc?

Not to mention they have alot more money, and R & D to play around with.

380KW from a 7L is pretty good. Remember it's naturally aspirated, and probably doesn't have the same stresses, as a smaller capacity engine, making the same power and torque. Imagine Nissan or Toyota pumping out that sort of power from a 2L 4 Cylinder? In theory it would seem more impressive, but the strain on the engine would be insane.

In saying that, maybe the yanks should get over the "Hey I know how we'll make more power, lets up the cubes" rubbish, but whatever works, works I guess.

[mcnews]

And thus more stomp off the bottom.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by ken2903

What exactly have FPV done to the V8 (other than the recent 12kw) and 6cly engines since the GT and F6 were launched? Thats what i was stating. I'm not attacking the car, just saying that FPV are no better than HSV at upping their power figures each year.
The guy i quoted was ripping off HSV because they get their engines elsewhere. I believe it doesn't matter where the engines come from, what matters is the final product that people can go and buy and engines are only part of that anyway.
The turbo six is an awesome engine, and Ford enthusiests should be very proud. If i had 50 or 60K right now i'd have a Typhoon in my driveway tomorrow.

EDIT: and for the record, i dont think FPV should up the power every year. Off topic i know.

Ok, well in that case, I would put forward the point that FPV really did not have to do anything.

The GT and F6 are well built easy to drive sports saloons that are still selling well. FPV do not have to bring out a newer bigger gooder model every 3 months to keep their buyers happy and in doing so are assisting in elevating the resale/tradein value of their products when the owner wishes to update.

Look at the price of a 2003 R8 vs 2003 GT-P.

FPV produce the best sounding vehicle, the quickest vehicle, the better resale value, the best auto, the best clutch...........

On the other hand look at the T series AUs. T1s & T2s are priced the same as XR8s whereas T3s are the only ones to hold any value at all. How annoyed would you have been trying to trade your $90,000, 3, year old T1 TE50 on a GT-P and getting offers in the 20s and low 30s

If it ain't broke don't fix it just for the sake of a minority.

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by flappist

FPV produce the best sounding vehicle

You make it out, as if it's fact.

I think the FPVs sound nice, but sound, like cosmetics comes down to preference if you ask me.

[3vXT]

Originally Posted by flappist

If it ain't broke don't fix it just for the sake of a minority.

I agree 100%. Someone take a photo, quick

[4Vman]

Id say FPV have done a fair bit with both the 6 and 8 over the past few years, they just haven't changed the badge to keep the "badge braggers" happy....

[FORD3V]

"Badge braggers" are the type of car buyer who havnt and refuse to mod there cars,from a personal point of view I cant se why factory power levels meen so much,from a marketing point of view its a differant story.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Ryan

You make it out, as if it's fact.

I think the FPVs sound nice, but sound, like cosmetics comes down to preference if you ask me.

In that there are many threads both here and LS1 stating this I suspect that it may be a concensus.

I am very impressed by your honesty. You state "FF Holden driver *hides* under your username and then "Everyone makes mistakes, but it takes a man, to admit it." in your signature.

[Sourbastard]

Im gonna whip you all with a torana running a race prepped starfire.

FFS people, get a grip, and not your crotch this time.



Granny says Shut the Eff Up!

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by flappist

I am very impressed by your honesty. You state "FF Holden driver *hides* under your username and then "Everyone makes mistakes, but it takes a man, to admit it." in your signature.

Well yes, but what does that have to do with this thread?

I also know it's ironic, as I happen to drive a Holden. What you're getting at is I made a "Mistake" by owning a Holden, and "Admitting" to it.

[ea90gl]

im sure ford, and most other companies, wouldnt go release different motors with big HP figures or up the power on thier engines in huge amounts in short spans of time because what would they do when that gets old? You cant jump from one thing to another huge step in short weeks or months (years is considered short by any car company), you do it in small steps. that way it preserves the image of each car and motor and gives them plenty of time to adjust or add/subtract different components eg type of diff or gearbox etc etc to suit the car and motor. it also adds excitement/suspense for the newer model or upgrade so it can get more sales. As they say Rome wasnt built in a day. As for the current crop out there as a few have mentioned its not just KW figures, the weight is a huge factor when it comes to performance. If the GT's werent so plump they could blow the doors off a typhoon or HSV. The typhoon is a great car with a very torquey turb 6 but the only reason it leaves the GT in its tracks is not because of the 20-30 more NM or torque but the 150-200KG lighter body. You can never underestimate the effect that excessive weight has on a cars performance. Then you have HSV with bigger engines and lighter cars - ofcourse they're gonna be quicker, there'd be something seriously wrong if they werent.