Unichip vs CAPA Ford Flash Tuner

[Stav]

From my talks to bpt it is pretty affordable too. You can go in and edit the cappa tune as well

[Stav]

Originally Posted by GXR

I own a series 3 AU XR6, 5 speed manual, VCT engine. I want to fit extractors, high flow cat, cat back exhaust, larger airbox & computer editing (5 rwkw only). I have been told by several performance centres that I will gain 20 - 25 rwkw.

I would like to get an extra 40-45 rwkw with the engine unopened or using turbo or superchargers. I was thinking about using a UNICHIP or a CAPA FORD FLASH TUNER. I am also wanting to improve low down torque, not just rwkw.

Questions:
1. Is 40-45 rwkw gain (engine unopened) achievable?
2. Is 170 rwkw achievable (engine unopened)?
3. Should I use a Unichip or CAPA Ford Flash Tuner?
4. What other options do I have?

Any info would be greatly appreciated.

After a bit of constructive debate here we seem to think the sniper software will be the better value for money pckage with user adjustability available. I dare say that you must do your homework before tuning a car as it is easy to make mistakes and take your time.

[RG]

Originally Posted by Stav

From my talks to bpt it is pretty affordable too. You can go in and edit the cappa tune as well

So are you saying that I wouldn't need to go in and get a whole new tune, all I'd need is the Hardware?

[Stav]

Originally Posted by RedXR347

So are you saying that I wouldn't need to go in and get a whole new tune, all I'd need is the Hardware?

It depends on how much you know about tuning and if you have the right equipment as a wideband air fuel ratio meter as well. You won't have to get a whole new tune.If you are not 100% sure then better to take it to our mates at g&d. For the price of a tune you could save an engine and theyve done heaps of cars.
In saying that ..if you have done alot of research and feel confident then tuning a modern car is easier than the carby days when we would have been playing with 350 dual barrell holley or 390 vacuum secondary holleys.Type in the numbers of adjustment and check you fuel ratios.Adjust timing accordingly.

Hardware..provided with the software.Sheez maybe BPT should make me a dealer down here

[b2tf]

Unichip = joke.

[sly]

Originally Posted by EvilChief

yes if the intercepted map sensor accomodates for boost too and the ecu does,

Not quite sure what you mean here. The stock AU TMAP signals vacuum (load) as a voltage from 0 to 5v. A 2 bar MAP sensor signals vacuum/boost (load) as a voltage from 0 to 5v (as do 3 & 5 bar sensors). The ECU doesn't need to accomodate boost, it only has to have the load points recalibrated to match the voltage received.

For example, with a 2 bar sensor, 1 bar of absolute pressure (ie 0" vacuum, 0 psi boost) is mapped to 50% load rather than 100% as is the case with a 1 bar sensor. Maybe the Unichip etc can't do this, but so far I have had 3 tuners tell me this can be done with the AU ECU via SCT Flash or Sniper.

[sly]

Originally Posted by Stav

it is just car fanatics like myself wouldnt mind to have the ability to tune a little.It gets tiring having to back to get adjustments made which I could do myself.

On that note, has anyone tried the Flash 2 or Livewire? They seem to offer the ability to tune "a little".

[sly]

Originally Posted by Stav

It depends on how much you know about tuning and if you have the right equipment as a wideband air fuel ratio meter as well.

Or some decent real-time diagnostics. When PCMSCAN is finally right for the AU and I get a chance to have a play, I'll write it up. I was hoping to have PCMSCAN a couple of months before Sniper so I could get some downloads and start to get an idea of how it all works. It's starting to look like it'll arrive in the same box LOL.

[RUKIDN]

Originally Posted by RedXR347

No I'd say the chip is at its limits. The Unichip struggled to run my stroker when it was first built, nothing to do with the tuner at all. Unichips have serious limitations that can be found quite easily.

Exactly redxr thats what i was told by two tuners, the chip is at its limits for what it can do and there would be no point trying to re-tune it as they cant alter much as its maxed out already. Either way im not fussed as ive been wanting to change it since i bought the car, if possible a haltech interceptor is what i want but as i was informed a flash tuner will fix it my cash situation atm may lead me in that direction, will see over the next month or two.

cheers chris

[EvilChief]

Originally Posted by sly

Not quite sure what you mean here. The stock AU TMAP signals vacuum (load) as a voltage from 0 to 5v. A 2 bar MAP sensor signals vacuum/boost (load) as a voltage from 0 to 5v (as do 3 & 5 bar sensors). The ECU doesn't need to accomodate boost, it only has to have the load points recalibrated to match the voltage received.

For example, with a 2 bar sensor, 1 bar of absolute pressure (ie 0" vacuum, 0 psi boost) is mapped to 50% load rather than 100% as is the case with a 1 bar sensor. Maybe the Unichip etc can't do this, but so far I have had 3 tuners tell me this can be done with the AU ECU via SCT Flash or Sniper.

that is correct, all "analog" map sensors operate on a 0.5 to 4.9V range. as you said the NA sensors takes the full range to sense vacuume, where as the 2,3,4,etc Map sensors sub devide these voltage range to sense vac and boost.

now NA cars come out only with 1bar ()vac map sensors and have no load sensing for boost whatsoever. the assosiated ecu has only mapping to accomodate for vac signals.

ie 4.9v = no vac on an 1Bar (NA) map sensors
whereas 4.9V = 1Bar of boost on a 2Bar (turbo) map sensor

now the NA ecus mapping will register 0 vac at the end of teh fuel map, whereas a turbo ecu will register 0 vac somewhere in the middle of the map allowing for the postive pressure thereafter. now what i am saying is that without reprogframing the NA ecu to accomodate for postive boost pressure it will always read 0vac (last column in a fuel map) under boost.

the only way around that is using a flasher unit to reprogram the mapping to "rescale" the maps to allow for positive boost pressure. that will always require a map sensors which is rescaled to sense postive load.
meaning the ecu program has to match the map sensors and the map sensor has to match the application. oterhwise you run out of resolution for tuning.

now, ford has also used "digital" map sensors, which are frequency based, which is a another pain in the but story, however the theory is still teh same, except for using voltage signal, the frequency range varyies.

In a nutshell> match the resultion of your program and map sensor to your application, if you try and cheat the system, with an NA ecu running boost, you will be stuck with a very narrow resolution window for tuning

[sly]

So what you're saying EvilChief, is that a Unichip won't rescale the maps to suit a 2+ bar MAP sensor?

[EvilChief]

from when i was looking into the chips, it wasnt able to rescale, it just altered the sensor signals to alternate readings in the mappings, similar to the interceptor setup

[sly]

Fair enough. It's good to find someone else who understands what I've been on about for a while with MAP sensors and the AU ECU. Sure aftermarket ECU's have their place (in boosted E-series...) but I don't believe they have to be an automatic choice when boosting an AU.

[Stav]

Sorry guys.The 1bar map sensor does record up to 2.5 psi boost as I have logged it. The 2 bar goes higher. I am with Sly on his advice ..a 2 bar map can be tuned accordingly to its voltages and boost levels via the interceptor..yes? I think so.

[EvilChief]

Originally Posted by Stav

Sorry guys.The 1bar map sensor does record up to 2.5 psi boost as I have logged it. The 2 bar goes higher. I am with Sly on his advice ..a 2 bar map can be tuned accordingly to its voltages and boost levels via the interceptor..yes? I think so.

ef 1bar digital map sensor reads vac only (tested)
GM 1bar analog map sensor reads vac only (tested)
GM 2bar analog map sensor read 15.2psi max (tested)

that are the map sensors i have tested on the dyno

unsure what map sensor the AU uses

[Stav]

Ford Tmap is different. It definately logs 2.5 psi. I thought it was faulty and changed it.It still read 1 to 2.5 psi frequently right through to -14 from memory.

[sly]

Originally Posted by EvilChief

unsure what map sensor the AU uses

It's an analogue TMAP. I'm not sure but it could be a 1-bar equivalent to the XR6T TMAP.

[sly]

Originally Posted by Stav

Ford Tmap is different. It definately logs 2.5 psi. I thought it was faulty and changed it.It still read 1 to 2.5 psi frequently right through to -14 from memory.

What are you using to produce boost Stav? I thought your wagon was NA...

[GXR]

All the info has been much appreciated. I plan on getting the mods done in February. G & D Performance look like the guys to use as I have had alot of guys recommend them, all saying they were more than happy with their results.

I'll let you know how it goes and what I finally decided on, & how the car actually runs.
I plan on doing a dyno before (to bench mark against) & after to see what gains in power and torque (as I am also wanting much improved low to mid range torque).

Thanks for the input guys.

[EvilChief]

Originally Posted by sly

It's an analogue TMAP. I'm not sure but it could be a 1-bar equivalent to the XR6T TMAP.

interesting, good to know, thx

XR6T map sensors read up to 15.2psi

[Stav]

Originally Posted by sly

What are you using to produce boost Stav? I thought your wagon was NA...

Good question.I dont know why it sometimes reads this much? It may be a leaking inlet valve blowing into the manifold? Seems to happen a wot ..

[sly]

So the recorded 2.5psi boost is just registering in the Haltech software? You're not checking it with a vacc/boost gauge?

Sounds like a compression & leakdown test may be in order if you suspect a leaky inlet valve :-(

[Stav]

Originally Posted by sly

So the recorded 2.5psi boost is just registering in the Haltech software? You're not checking it with a vacc/boost gauge?

Sounds like a compression & leakdown test may be in order if you suspect a leaky inlet valve :-(

If I dont do a leakdown test and never find a leak then I will be alot happier.heheh.

[sly]

With it firing on all 5 you'll be able to plaster "Volvo" all over the Ford badges LOL.

[sly]

Originally Posted by EvilChief

because a piggy back chip cannot accomodate for a 2bar map sensor

a piggy back system can only alter injector timing and ignition timing. that timing again is still limited by the max values of the std ecu. that is what is meant by being limited. a chip does not invoke a new fuel or timing map, it only alters the signals send to the ecu to read from alternative reagions of teh fuel and ignition map in the std ecu, than it would with the actualsensor readings.

Originally Posted by Stav

Evil chief..I know that a haltech interceptor does accomodate for boost.With this piggyback I should be able to throw in 30psi of boost if I want in theory.

Probably at cross purposes here... the Haltech Interceptor is not a piggyback as I understand the term. I think the Chiptorque chip is a piggyback, it plugs into the J3 port on the ECU, NFI what the Unichip does.

But the Interceptor is wired in and is designed to alter fuel, spark and boost maps for open loop operation while leaving the factory strategies for cold start, idle, light throttle & lean cruise untouched. From the info on the Haltech site it seems that Stav is right in that the Interceptor could enable an otherwise untouched stock ECU to manage fuel and spark properly on a boosted AU fitted with a 2 bar MAP sensor.

The Interceptor is also able to store and switch between 2 sets of maps, ideal for someone running dual fuel. So really I'd class it as a subset of a full aftermarket ECU rather than a piggyback like the J3 modules.

Anyway, back on topic... ummm...

The VCT engine has a limited choice in aftermarket camshafts compared to the non-VCT I6's. There are easy kW's to be gained in tuning as they seem to run pretty rich stock, so some attention to fuel and spark will yield gains across the rev range, as will tuning for, and running, 98 octane.

But if your real target is 170RWKW with noticeably better low & midrange torque, then you are probably looking at forced induction. You can get 170RWKW without force-feeding but you will most likely lose low-end torque. My first foray into aftermarket cams was flat & lifeless under 3000rpm.

And not all forced induction is created equal. Centrifugal blowers will easily give 170RWKW and are (relatively) cheap & simple, but don't start to get the wrinkles out until around 3000rpm according to people who've had them. A positive displacement blower would be the best option for what you want, they boost as soon as you crack the throttle, but there are no off-the-shelf kits for the I6 available ATM. There are some under development, watch the site sponsor forums, think blue, think yellow. Seriously.

Right now your best option for better numbers across the whole rev range is a turbo kit. In terms of being available and proven, something like the Snort stage 2 kit would fit the bill. It would give you "a bit more" than 170RWKW, but since when has too much ever been enough?

[GXR]

Originally Posted by Stav

1 40 to 45 is achieveable.
2 no.
3/4 cappa flash tuner is a copout.Why? It is not transferrable to 3 cars as cappa claim.If you modify a car and it relies on the tune to run then it must stay with the car if you sell it.Also you dont have the software and must keep going back to the tuners.That is ok but it can get very expensive.The unichip I would never get again as you are again relying on tuner for your car to be spot on.You dont get the software to touch it up.
Get a different interceptor computer which allows you the freedom to alter the tune.Tunning is very easy to do if your careful.

G'day Stav

What do you mean by a "different interceptor computer?"

Thanks

[GXR]

G'day Stav

What do you mean by a "different interceptor computer?"

Thanks

[sly]

He means the Haltech Interceptor, $1095 plus fitting & tuning.