5 young men killed in high speed crash. - Page 2

geckoGT · 17-01-2010, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

I reckon thats the spot where it hit

Not sure how you manage that on a flat straight road unless you are drunk aswell

Some of the worst prangs I have been too have been on straight road with no alcohol involved. Mostly falling asleep at the wheel but sometimes driver distraction (possible here with horseplay from occupants).

Gomez · 17-01-2010, 11:00 AM

I can just anticipate the knee-jerk reaction we'll hear from Premier Brumby tonight.

They'll review the speed limit on Plenty Rd, ban blue turbo Falcons, and make speed limiters mandatory for anyone whose first name is, lets say.....Cameron??

:sheesh:

geckoGT · 17-01-2010, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dave93761

Forgive my ignorance, but what do you do for work?

Excellent post I might add....scored some rep from me

Cool, thanks.

By the way, I clean up the mess, a Paramedic in QLD.

J.C. · 17-01-2010, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bodes-sh

well, as far as the running goes, i believe wa police are bringing in some sort of emp device that is designed to kill the engine on a car, obviously, thus avoiding high speed chases. fair enough it won't cut the engine on all cars, but the majority that try and run are in later model efi cars anyway, so that's where it will work best. from what i have heard they are similar to operate to a laser radar gun.

...

As good as this sounds, this will not be the be all an end all for car crashes due to fools running from the police.
Thinking about it, it could be just as dangerous as a pursuit with the car rolling alone with the engine shut down, no power steering and possibly limited braking.
I don't have the answers on how to stop these needless incidents from occurring. All I know is that incidents like these tend to screw it up for the remainder of those on the road through harsher traffic fines and regulations.
At the end of it all, young lives have been pointlessly lost. I feel for the families they left behind and for those that had to deal with the trauma of attending the accidents and dealing with the dead and injured.
Like all of us working class people, the police have a job to do. Most times it isn't a pleasant job.
Education maybe the key in fighting and reducing these cases. My wife just came up with the idea of simulators in our schools maybe. After all, it is done in training pilots and we, as drivers, are politing a motor car. Food for thought.

Rev28K · 17-01-2010, 11:08 AM

4 people in the back seat, meaning that at least one wasn't wearing a seatbelt. That would be very bad with a sudden sideways stop.

Speed is a contributing factor but poor choices (including the passengers trying to cram in to the car) and driver competence (and maybe mechanical failure) are a big part as well.

Does anyone know what the survivability rate/speed for fatalities on side impacts is?

Years ago with VX/VY Commodores with sidebags Holden engineers reckoned anything over 80/90 kmh sideways in to a pole would mean death. I'd think that more modern cars would up that a bit.

Smoke Pursuit · 17-01-2010, 11:12 AM

Why is it always the kids who are doing the wrong thing to start with... Do they not think???

Over and over its the same story, more then 5 people in the car, excessive speed.. truely they have no chance...

geckoGT · 17-01-2010, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rev28K

Years ago with VX/VY Commodores with sidebags Holden engineers reckoned anything over 80/90 kmh sideways in to a pole would mean death. I'd think that more modern cars would up that a bit.

Sorry to burst your bubble but there has been virtually no improvement here. It is the most difficult impact to design safety for, virtually no room for crumple zones and close proximity of the occupants to the interior of the car. Nothing short of survival cells of incredible structural strength, crash bars, protective seats and multi point race harnesses will help here.

I have been to many accidents involving serious injury or death that involve side impacts. Many of which were within the speed limits of many of our roads.

futura97 · 17-01-2010, 11:20 AM

Looks like the story just got updated. It says the driver was a 19yr old kid with a 21yr old friend, and had two brothers and a brother and sister in the car also.

Young people need to relise that they have to respect the road rules for not only there own safety, but everyone elses. This is just plain stupidity to be travelling at ~140, with 6 people in a 5 seater car. The driver has single handedly destroyed a couple of families.

Really cheeses me off hearing about this sort of thing - A higher level of education needs to be teached, and much more serious offenses for drivers, and maybe a single fine and loose your license for a year if you're a P plater. Being harsh is the only way to teach these people.

geckoGT · 17-01-2010, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bfiipursuit

Why is it always the kids who are doing the wrong thing to start with... Do they not think???

Over and over its the same story, more then 5 people in the car, excessive speed.. truely they have no chance...

You are right Brent, many do not think. Some do think, it is the danger that gives the buzz. That is why education will only ever have a limited effect.

Sorry but my Paramedic cynicism causes me to wonder if it is natural selection at work in some cases. I realise this is not a pleasant thought for most but frequent exposure causes some strange effects.

Bobman · 17-01-2010, 11:37 AM

The car was a BF XR6.

Very sad to hear. The MFB were in attendance for a while and that poor girl will be scarred for life now.

That part of Plenty Road is a hot-spot for drags.

XR Martin · 17-01-2010, 11:45 AM

It wasnt a turbo, judging by the exhaust.

mick_gc · 17-01-2010, 11:49 AM

damn, if it didnt get the tree it would have ended up in the middle of someones house.

Can't beleive someone survived fully concious as well

Lunacy

4Vman · 17-01-2010, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geckoGT

The sad fact is you will never teach all younger people, full of desire to have fun, that this sort of thing kills. No matter how much money you throw at it in education, there will always be the minority that continue. The only thing we can hope to do is decrease the population of the minority group that continue. The simple fact is this sort of thing will continue to happen, for as long as we have cars.

Lets look at it, we have had hoon laws, increased penalties, increased methods of law enforcement, increased advetising, driver restriction and still young people die in high speed crashes. Been there seen that.

We have increased education on the effects of excessive alcohol consumption, explaining the long term effects and increase potential for an intoxicated person to be assaulted or suffer trauma. We have introduced lock down on night club districts, increased police presence and so on. But still young people drink until they are permanently brain damaged, bleed to death from oesophageal varices or die of liver failure before they are 50. Been there seen that.

We have increased public education on the dangers of drugs, outlining the risks of their use. We have stronger laws with better enforcement techniques, changes to medication laws to prevent misuse (why do you think sudafed no longer has psuedoephedrine). But still younger people put all sorts of garbage in their body to feel good, resulting in many of them developing lethal heart arrythmias, brain damage, drug induced psychoses, OD etc etc. Been there seen that.

Perhaps we should get some of the previous offenders to spend two weeks with me at work, it would give them a different outlook. Unfortunately I do not think that outlook will be enough though, they always have the attitude of "that won't happen to me".

Spot on, the current level of restrictions and education is enough i feel, while these incidents will always occur im convinced many have been averted by people obeying the restrictions, speed limits and laws, we should never get complacent about the safety message though.
Defensive driver training is widely avaliable for everyone right now, it wouldnt have saved these 5 though.
I also agree these offenders and L platers should attend the morgue and accident rehab centres as part of their training....

AU1XLS · 17-01-2010, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bfiipursuit

Why is it always the kids who are doing the wrong thing to start with... Do they not think???

No they don't fear. Fear comes with life's experiences
We can only try to educate them

deesun · 17-01-2010, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 05MkIIFutura

But they then went and smacked a turbo on an engine which already hauls the Falcon along a fairly good rate.... I can see why governments react and start to limit people on what they are allowed to drive, re: the supercar scare of the 70's.

Sorry bud but no mention of a turbo in any of the stories. Police say car was within regs of what driver was allowed to drive. But an ordinary XR6 is capable of speed. The driver just wasn't capable of any correct decision.

Franco Cozzo · 17-01-2010, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

We'll probably find out the driver was outside of his passenger restrictions and car power restrictions too...

Passenger restrictions, he could have still been on P1s which means only 1 passenger between the age of 16-22 in the car but not power restrictions, here in Victoria, basically the only power rules are No v8s, No turbos, No high powered 6 cylinder cars, which are things like BMW M3s, 350/370Z and Porche's. All the Bno V8s rule did was switch people from Fairlanes/Fairmonts/Statesman/Caprice into Supra/300ZX/Integra Type R/RX8

You can't legislate against stupidity, make all the car restrictions in the world and people will still kill themselves. Education is the answer, my friends. I know I could kill myself in my Fiesta while obeying the road rules, all I'd have to do is throw it into the 100 year old trees that line the road just outside of my town at 100km/h.

We had the Police do a talk to us in Year 11 (2008) and it was just them harping on about how the new P plate laws will save many lives and how speed cameras are reducing the road toll....

It was funny, out of the 200 Year 11s, 90 showed up.

GavL · 17-01-2010, 12:11 PM

The poor 15 year old girl is going to picture what she saw that night for the rest of her life - and will probably affect her the most out of all the other families affected by the crash too.

dave289 · 17-01-2010, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AU1XLS

No they don't fear. Fear comes with life's experiences
We can only try to educate them

sounds about right to me. while I might be heading towards 40 , I was young once and had p plates. I guess I was what you would call a hoon. I would race people from the lights and from the inside lane and would also see just how fast my car could go. its called the male in us and you cant and never will get rid of it ,no matter what you say or do. while many of you here like to make out what perfect drivers you are , now, but werent you young once and like to test the limits, if your did,nt then I guess your a liar or was seriously lacking in testosterone, one or the other. now who of you here would like to admit that you did not always drive as sedately as you do now.you can talk about this until you are blue in the face ,but the only way to slow people like this down would be to have speed limiters by way of satelite gps or similiar, until that day happens you will always get young males testing the limits, its part of life .just like you dont get old ladies doing burnouts and speeding off from the lights, because its not in there nature but it is in others and always will be.

Rev28K · 17-01-2010, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geckoGT

Sorry to burst your bubble but there has been virtually no improvement here. It is the most difficult impact to design safety for, virtually no room for crumple zones and close proximity of the occupants to the interior of the car. Nothing short of survival cells of incredible structural strength, crash bars, protective seats and multi point race harnesses will help here.

I have been to many accidents involving serious injury or death that involve side impacts. Many of which were within the speed limits of many of our roads.

Damn! I was just hoping there would some incremental improvements.

I understand that it is a tiny space that has to absorb high energy and was hoping that things like high strength steel sections and curtain airbags would help a bit.

XR Martin · 17-01-2010, 12:26 PM

The pole test is conducted at 29kmh and is survivable, anything more than that is luck of the draw I think.

vztrt · 17-01-2010, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Angry about tightening road laws?

These tragedy's don't help...

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/fiv...-1225820452302

We can tighten the laws all we want, this will never be stopped unless all cars have a top speed of 40kph.

**russellw** · 17-01-2010, 01:05 PM

It is a senseless waste after a series of bad decision with the end result that the lives of three families and countless other friends and relatives are changed forever.

As a parent you can only emphasise the decision making process that (hopefully) stops your children getting into a car full of their peers where there is some potential for this sort of tragic outcome.

As has been noted, there are no simple answers or we would have solved this problem a long time ago but these instances may well add some merit to an extension of the P1 passenger rules through the three year life of a provisional licence. If nothing else it reduces the number of fatalities when a bad decision leads to everything turning pear shaped.

The trouble with that approach is that legislation only works on the assumption that people will abide by it and as there were at least two laws being broken in this instance such legislative changes would likely have had no impact on the outcome.

All I can say is this:

If you are a parent, go and hug your children but also tell them about the decision making process when it comes to travelling in cars with their peers - or make arrangements yourself to avoid the potential for a tragedy like this.

If you are a young driver, consider the lives of other people that are in your care. It's better to be alive and slow than a dead, would-be hero.

If you are in a position where you have to make a decision about being a passenger be as sure as you can about the choice you are making or better still have planned in advance how you are getting home.

Russ

just_pazz · 17-01-2010, 01:29 PM

Very familiar with that stretch of road.... and TBH I'm not surprised this has happened.

The road is not sealed on either side, although he lost control on the dead straight section rather than down further where it curves out and is especially dangerous at high speed. 140+ k's an hour would be very easy to touch a wheel on the gravel and spin out of control. Road condition is not the best either and there are quite a few bumps and surface changes. Alot of people don't realize a full car also effects the handling ability of their car and the way it reacts to the road.

Regardless of the circumstances this is a horrible horrible incident and a senseless waste of life.

mik · 17-01-2010, 01:56 PM

[QUOTE=05MkIIFutura]But they then went and smacked a turbo on an engine which already hauls the Falcon along a fairly good rate.... I can see why governments react and start to limit people on what they are allowed to drive, re: the supercar scare of the 70's.

I am all for fast cars, and getting a kick out of them at high speed. There is a place to do this, in a controlled situation at a motorsport facility. There are so many immature minds out there who have no comprehension of risk or consquences that I honestly would feel safer if they started to cap power to weight ratio's in cars, and installed GPS speed limiters.

There will always be stupid people out there, and a they are still capable of causing deaths in a Yaris. But why we compound the situation by building sedans with Porsche like speed at a price anyone can afford, it is beyond me....
kilowatts is not the problem , if someone wants to speed they will do it no matter what engine is in it , i found as a young buk a mini 1000 cc would 92 mph , a 68 cortina 1600 would do about the same, i could go on, capping kw`s wont do a thing, they will then try it in less powerfull cars even less capable of handling speed and reckless driveing.

US kills Falcon · 17-01-2010, 02:00 PM

The "wipe off 5" campaign is a farce because peole who kill themselves on the road are usually driving well above the speed limit.

mick_gc · 17-01-2010, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by just_pazz

Very familiar with that stretch of road.... and TBH I'm not surprised this has happened.

The road is not sealed on either side, although he lost control on the dead straight section rather than down further where it curves out and is especially dangerous at high speed. 140+ k's an hour would be very easy to touch a wheel on the gravel and spin out of control. Road condition is not the best either and there are quite a few bumps and surface changes. Alot of people don't realize a full car also effects the handling ability of their car and the way it reacts to the road.

Regardless of the circumstances this is a horrible horrible incident and a senseless waste of life.

That looks like exactly what happened.

The Airbags on the car didnt even go off either, not that it would have made any difference

**Full Noise** · 17-01-2010, 02:03 PM

Thankfully this moron didn’t hit some innocent motorist before coming to grief against the tree.

jcxr · 17-01-2010, 02:04 PM

Radio news says driver was on a limited passeger licence due to a prior speeding infringement.

GK351 · 17-01-2010, 02:12 PM

The only way to help stop this is show them real time footage/pictures of fatal accidents from around the world during their P's exam.

Might offend people and create controversy but if this is to stop its got to be shown.
Think about it.

Waste of 5 lives i feel sorry for their parents/family/freinds.

[Tonko] · 17-01-2010, 02:42 PM

Terrible, but i wonder why the passengers didnt speak up?

Just showed this story to my 19 y.o cousin, he is unfortuntely in the same "absolute d---head catagory... All that came to his silly little mind was "must be a crap driver"
I dont know where this attitude comes from but i see it all the time at work.