Drink driving laws on private property; state by state..... - Page 2

flappist · 29-07-2010, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

And only one person has bothered to actually post the QLD legislation which tells it CLEARLY that the ROAD RULES ONLY APPLY TO A ROAD..

NO ONE ELSE HERE has BOTHERED to show the revelevent LAW...
If you want to beat your drum please prove it.
Clearly someone has an axe to grind yet they havent bothered to GET OFF THEIR *** and show me the relevent legislation.

The law is CLEAR in QLD... Division 1 Roads and road related areas

11 Rules apply to vehicles and road users on roads and road related areas

Instead of creating more internet myths, please prove it.

Again some of you seem to think that only certain parts of the road laws apply on private land. Clearly NO ROAD rules apply on private land.
I can drive an un-registered vehicle on my property.
I can drive a modified car on my property.
I can drink drive in a registered/ unregistered vehicle on my property.

And that would be ME....

Although if you actually read the link you might notice this bit:

Sections 79, 79A and 80 under Part 3 of the Transport Operations (Road Use Management) Act 1995 (TORUM) are the applicable sections in relation to your query. Section 79A defines the three alcohol limits. Section 79 (2A) creates an offence for a person under the age 25 who does not hold an open licence, if they exceed zero. Section 79 (2) creates an offence for a person if they exceed the general limit, i.e. equal or exceed .050. Section 79 (2B) & (2C) creates an offence when driving etc certain classes of vehicles with a blood/breath alcohol concentration greater than zero (trucks, buses, B-doubles). Section 79 (11) identifies where the offences apply to, i.e. road or elsewhere. Elsewhere can be a car park, private property or a mining site.

Jim Goose · 29-07-2010, 05:07 PM

http://www.slp.wa.gov.au/pco/prod/FileStore.nsf/Documents/MRDocument:18637P/$FILE/RoadTrfcCd2000_02-i0-00.pdf?OpenElement

Quote:

Part 2 — Application
4. Scope of regulations
(1) Unless the context requires otherwise, these regulations apply to
persons, vehicles and things on roads only, and where a
provision of these regulations requires, or prohibits, the doing of
any act or thing, that requirement or prohibition relates to the
doing of that act or thing, on a road.
(2) Where a provision of these regulations requires, or prohibits, the
doing of any act or thing on a path, that requirement or
prohibition only relates to the doing of that act or thing, on the
path if the path forms a part of a road.

Jim Goose · 29-07-2010, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

And that would be ME

Sections 79, 79A and 80 under Part 3 of the Transport Operations (Road Use Management) Act 1995 (TORUM) are the applicable sections in relation to your query. Section 79A defines the three alcohol limits. Section 79 (2A) creates an offence for a person under the age 25 who does not hold an open licence, if they exceed zero. Section 79 (2) creates an offence for a person if they exceed the general limit, i.e. equal or exceed .050. Section 79 (2B) & (2C) creates an offence when driving etc certain classes of vehicles with a blood/breath alcohol concentration greater than zero (trucks, buses, B-doubles). Section 79 (11) identifies where the offences apply to, i.e. road or elsewhere. Elsewhere can be a car park, private property or a mining site.

For godsakes.... READ THE ACT.
Private Property is not covered by THE ROAD ACT.

We are NOT TALKING ABOUT CARPARKS....

A mine site is not open to the public, however its access roads depending on certain things may be defines as PUBLIC ACCESS roads.

Again... READ THE ACT
If you dont want to read it..
If you dont want to look up the law and PROVE it to me then dont come and tell the members here and create hysteria for no reason

FTE72 · 29-07-2010, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTP006

I wouldn't think any such legislation was made to be as draconian as the obvious examples people are coming up with in this thread.

Plenty of "public" places are privately owned - like a Service Station, Pub Carpark, Calder Park, Airports etc etc and rules about DUI on Private Property would have been drafted so that Police have the ability to do their job without some smartarse telling them that the Caravan Park is private property...

Exactly right.
And I m sure police would only enforce these laws on private property if you were being a serial pest or complete fool and upsetting/endangering neighbours or others in the vicinity.
Common sense still does apply you know.

Scott · 29-07-2010, 05:16 PM

I just read:
http://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/LE...antOpRUA95.pdf

If you're interested, open it and do a search on "road or elsewhere" and see what types of things come up.

flappist · 29-07-2010, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

For godsakes.... READ THE ACT.
Private Property is not covered by THE ROAD ACT.

We are NOT TALKING ABOUT CARPARKS....

A mine site is not open to the public, however its access roads depending on certain things may be defines as PUBLIC ACCESS roads.

Again... READ THE ACT
If you dont want to read it..
If you dont want to look up the law and PROVE it to me then dont come and tell the members here and create hysteria for no reason

I got lazy and instead consulted a friend you reads acts for a living and prosecutes offenders. He disagrees with you and cited for me a number of cases that he personally has been successful in prosecuting.

You on the other hand, have continually shown an inability to understand what you read (remember your SATNAV transmitters?).

The reference I gave is from the QLD Police site with their references to the act.

joolz · 29-07-2010, 05:26 PM

So myself being in Melbourne its illegal if im over 0.05 to move a car from my front lawn to my back yard to wash it with tank water? Or out on the farm to have a little fun? If so whats next...... being done for D and D walking to your letterbox or being intoxicated in your own house???

Jim Goose · 29-07-2010, 05:27 PM

Again... still unable to show me the act...
Despite me showing the relevent sections you dont want to believe it.

I dont care what your lawyer friend said... or what the Police site says.

READ THE ACT

Follow the links i provided...

Its a simple thing to do.

I cant help it if you want to believe something which isnt true.

Again.. PROVE ME WRONG

Scott · 29-07-2010, 05:28 PM

http://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/LE...ntOpRURR09.pdf

Part 2 Application of this regulation
Division 1 Roads and road-related areas
11 Regulation applies to vehicles and road users on roads
and road-related areas
(1) This regulation applies to vehicles and road users on roads
and road-related areas.
(2) A reference in this regulation (except in this division) to a
road includes a reference to a road-related area, unless
otherwise expressly stated in this regulation.
Examples for subsection (2)—
1 A reference in section 146 (which deals with driving within a single
marked lane or line of traffic) to the road includes a reference to the
road-related area of the road.
2 A reference in section 200(1) (which deals with certain heavy or
long vehicles stopping on roads) to a length of road includes a
reference to the road-related area of the length of road.
3 A reference in section 31 (which deals with starting a right turn
from a road, except a multi-lane road) to a road does not include a
reference to a road-related area, because of the definition in
subsection (5) of that section.

13 What is a road-related area
(1) A road-related area is any of the following—
(a) an area that divides a road;
(b) a footpath or nature strip adjacent to a road;
(c) an area that is not a road and that is open to the public
and designated for use by cyclists or animals;
(d) an area that is not a road and that is open to, or used by,
the public for parking vehicles.
[s 14]
Transport Operations (Road Use Management—Road Rules) Regulation 2009
Part 2 Application of this regulation
Page 20 Reprint 1B effective 16 April 2010
(2) However, unless the contrary intention appears, a reference in
this regulation (except this division) to a road-related area
includes a reference to—
(a) any shoulder of a road; and
(b) any other area that is a footpath or nature strip as defined
in the dictionary.
(3) In this section—
shoulder, of a road—
(a) includes any part of the road that is not designed to be
used by motor vehicles in travelling along the road; and
(b) includes—
(i) for a kerbed road—any part of the kerb; and
(ii) for a sealed road—any unsealed part of the road,
and any sealed part of the road outside an edge line
on the road; but
(c) does not include a bicycle path, footpath or shared path.

Jim Goose · 29-07-2010, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joolz

So myself being in Melbourne its illegal if im over 0.05 to move a car from my front lawn to my back yard to wash it with tank water? Or out on the farm to have a little fun? If so whats next...... being done for D and D walking to your letterbox or being intoxicated in your own house???

Its not so... NO ONE HERE has bothered to show the relevent LAW.

I have put up links showing what the law states.

It is NOT agaisnt the law

flappist · 29-07-2010, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

Again... still unable to show me the act...
Despite me showing the relevent sections you dont want to believe it.

I dont care what your lawyer friend said... or what the Police site says.

READ THE ACT

Follow the links i provided...

Its a simple thing to do.

I cant help it if you want to believe something which isnt true.

Again.. PROVE ME WRONG

Oh FFS....

Click on the link in GTP006's post.

Go to the section that I indicated in my post 79(11).

HSE2 · 29-07-2010, 05:43 PM

It’s clear that people would like to discuss and talk about the subject in a grown up manner.

That does not imply adult like behaviour but demands respect by all parties.

Mr Goose. You stand out as being contentious in this thread and are on notice not for what you are saying but how you are saying it. There is no need for use of caps as it reads as yelling in forum language.

Stating you don't care what lawyers or police have to say is not in your best interests when trying to make a point of view. When it comes to reading acts and legislation it’s nearly always prudent to take advice on the issue.
In short change the style of your conveyance if you wish to continue your contribution on this topic.

Same applies to everyone else. If you find you are getting frustrated and regurgitating the same ground over and over take a break and give it a rest. Others can’t contribute while these types of conversations are being hammered out by one or two people.

Bring in real life experience if possible and take on board that there is room for error in ones understanding. Take the opportunity to learn and contribute accordingly and the entire community benefits. Take the attitude that I am right and the onus is on others to prove me wrong, might be factual but not a stance conducive to a positive forum experience.

This now serves as first and last warning to all participants. Failure to read and understand the direction expected forward will not only result in the closure of the topic but penalties being applied.

**russellw** · 29-07-2010, 06:53 PM

Victoria:

Definitions:

3AA Circumstances in which person is to be taken to be
in charge of a motor vehicle

(1) Without limiting the circumstances in which a person is in charge of a motor vehicle, the following persons are to be taken to be in charge of a motor vehicle for the purposes of this Act—
(a) a person who is attempting to start or drive the motor vehicle;
(b) a person with respect to whom there are reasonable grounds for the belief that he or she intends to start or drive the motor vehicle;
(c) a commercial driving instructor while the person whom he or she is teaching to drive is driving or in charge of the vehicle;
(d) an accompanying licensed driver while the person whom he or she is sitting beside is driving or in charge of the vehicle.

The exception to the above is attempting to start a vehicle with an approved Alcohol Interlock fitted.

road means—

(a) an area that is open to or used by the public and is developed for, or has as one of its main uses, the driving or riding of motor vehicles; or
(b) a place that is a road by virtue of a declaration under subsection (2)(a)— but does not include a place that is not a road by virtue of a declaration under subsection (2)(a)road related area means—

(a) an area that divides a road; or
(b) a footpath or nature strip adjacent to a road; or
(c) an area that is open to the public and is designated for use by cyclists or animals; or
(d) an area that is not a road and that is open to or used by the public for
driving, riding or parking motor vehicles; or
(e) a place that is a road related area by virtue of a declaration under
subsection (2)(a)— but does not include a place that is not a road related area by virtue of a declaration under subsection (2)(a);

However, it is irrelvant in Victoria as the law relating to a drink / drug driving offence states:

49 Offences involving alcohol or other drugs

(1) A person is guilty of an offence if he or she—

(a) drives a motor vehicle or is in charge of a motor vehicle while under the influence of intoxicating liquor or of any drug to such an extent as to be incapable of having proper control of the motor vehicle; or
(b) drives a motor vehicle or is in charge of a motor vehicle while the prescribed concentration of alcohol or more than the prescribed concentration of alcohol is present in his or her blood or breath; or
(ba) drives a motor vehicle or is in charge of a motor vehicle while impaired by a drug; or
(bb) drives a motor vehicle or is in charge of a motor vehicle while the prescribed concentration of drugs or more than the prescribed concentration of drugs is present in his or her blood or oral fluid; or
(c) refuses to undergo a preliminary breath test in accordance with section 53 when required under that section to do so; or
(ca) refuses to undergo an assessment of drug impairment in accordance with section 55A when required under that section to do so or refuses to comply with any other requirement made under section 55A(1); etc. etc.

with no requirement for the offence to have been committed on a public road.

**russellw** · 29-07-2010, 07:05 PM

Interestingly the South Australian Act says:

5A—Application of Act to vehicles and road users on roads
This Act applies to vehicles and drivers, riders, passengers and pedestrians on roads.

6A—Roads and road-related areas
A reference in this Act to a road includes a reference to a road-related area unless it is otherwise expressly stated.

road means an area that is open to or used by the public and is developed for, or has as one of its main uses, the driving of motor vehicles;

road-related area means any of the following:
(a) an area that divides a road;
(b) a footpath or nature strip adjacent to a road;
(c) an area that is not a road and that is open to the public and designated for use by cyclists or animals;
(d) any public place that is not a road and on which a vehicle may be driven, whether or not it is lawful to drive a vehicle there;

47—Driving under influence
(1) A person must not—
(a) drive a vehicle; or
(b) attempt to put a vehicle in motion, while so much under the influence of intoxicating liquor or a drug as to be incapable of exercising effective control of the vehicle.

47B—Driving while having prescribed concentration of alcohol in blood
(1) A person must not—
(a) drive a motor vehicle; or
(b) attempt to put a motor vehicle in motion, while there is present in his or her blood the prescribed concentration of alcohol as defined in section 47A.

Which leaves some room for doubt by my reading of the Act.

At least I did glean one useful bit of information from the SA Act related to speeding offences:

(2) For the purposes of this section, signs placed on a road for the purpose of indicating a maximum speed to be observed by drivers while driving on, by or towards a work area or work site in accordance with section 20 will not be taken to be of any effect unless one or more workers are present at the work area or work site.

Cheers
Russ

**russellw** · 29-07-2010, 07:22 PM

West Australia

Definitions

driver means any person driving a vehicle or animal;

drive includes —
(a) in relation to a vehicle, to have control over the steering, movement or propulsion of the vehicle;

(b) in relation to an animal, to be in control of the animal,

regardless of whether the vehicle or animal is usually referred to as being ridden rather than driven;

road means any highway, road or street open to, or used by, the public and includes every carriageway, footway, reservation, median strip and traffic island thereon;

63 . Driving under the influence of alcohol etc.

(1) A person who drives or attempts to drive a motor vehicle while under the influence of alcohol, drugs, or alcohol and drugs to such an extent as to be incapable of having proper control of the vehicle commits an offence, and the offender may be arrested without warrant.

64 . Driving with blood alcohol content of or above 0.08

(1) A person who drives or attempts to drive a motor vehicle while having a blood alcohol content of or above 0.08g of alcohol per 100ml of blood commits an offence.

In sections 54, 55 and 56 and in sections 59 to 72 inclusive, but not in section 62A, a reference, however expressed, to the driving of or attempting to drive a motor vehicle shall be construed as a reference to the driving of or attempting to drive a motor vehicle on a road or in any place to which the public is permitted, whether on payment of a fee or otherwise, to have access, and a reference to a driver shall be construed accordingly.

This would seem to preclude offences on private property although it would depend how the last point above is construed.

Cheers
Russ

Road Games · 29-07-2010, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNR8D

This is interesting, family had a farm up near Rollingstone FNQ and from 12-13 I learnt to drive in a paddock basher and thus included thrashing it, was told by the local HWP to simply drive in the paddocks and not on any gazetted roads or roads which lead directly to the main roadway.

I totally agree with this , the Emerald coppers are a different breed - typical country cops.
I still am friends with some of them and catch up whenever i go back to Blackwater...

Cheers Daz.

MO · 29-07-2010, 07:25 PM

Interesting read there Russ about the works speed and workers.

Jason[98.EL] · 29-07-2010, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by russellw

However, it is irrelvant in Victoria as the law relating to a drink / drug driving offence states:

49 Offences involving alcohol or other drugs

(1) A person is guilty of an offence if he or she—

(a) drives a motor vehicle or is in charge of a motor vehicle while under the influence of intoxicating liquor or of any drug to such an extent as to be incapable of having proper control of the motor vehicle; or
(b) drives a motor vehicle or is in charge of a motor vehicle while the prescribed concentration of alcohol or more than the prescribed concentration of alcohol is present in his or her blood or breath; or

from memory the above ones are simular to what was on my court papers when i got done

I will post all the correct details if they are still at my parents place

i sent HSE2 a pm regarding this and hope that i do have the info as i would like to put it to bed for here in vic at least

Jason

Mickxr8 · 29-07-2010, 07:41 PM

thanks russ. you beat me to it (re WA road rules ). i trolled the net the net last night looking for info. all i could find was what i posted before.
so unless i`m missing something if your property has no public access, gazetted roads
through it , locked gate etc then a bit of circlework,wasting tyres after a few `sherbets` should be ok ?

p/s i abhore drink driving on public roads but...fair go ? having a few mates
around and playing in the paddock

pottery beige · 29-07-2010, 08:10 PM

Thanks Russ.. SA ROCKS.. drive your car in your backyard drunk... Woo hoo...

MO · 29-07-2010, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pottery beige

Thanks Russ.. SA ROCKS.. drive your car in your backyard drunk... Woo hoo...

Just don't put it through the fence into your neighbours yard!

**russellw** · 29-07-2010, 09:19 PM

Tasmania

12. What is a road (1) A road is an area that is open to or used by the public and is developed for, or has as one of its main uses, the driving or riding of motor vehicles.

(2) However, unless the contrary intention appears, a reference in the Road Rules (except in this Division) to a road does not include a reference to –

(a) an area so far as the area is declared, under another law of this jurisdiction, not to be a road for the Road Rules; or

(b) any shoulder of the road.

(3) The shoulder of the road includes any part of the road that is not designed to be used by motor vehicles in travelling along the road, and includes –

(a) for a kerbed road – any part of the kerb; and

(b) for a sealed road – any unsealed part of the road, and any sealed part of the road outside an edge line on the road –

but does not include a bicycle path, footpath or shared path.

16. Who is a driver (1) A driver is the person who is driving a vehicle (except a motor bike, bicycle, animal or animal-drawn vehicle).

4. Driving while under the influence of alcohol, drugs, &c., prohibited

A person who drives a vehicle while under the influence of one or more of the following things to the extent that he or she is incapable of having proper control of the vehicle is guilty of an offence:

(a) intoxicating liquor;

(b) a drug.

Cheers
Russ

**russellw** · 29-07-2010, 09:36 PM

NSW

"drive" includes:

(a) be in control of the steering, movement or propulsion of a vehicle, and

(b) in relation to a trailer, draw or tow the trailer, and

(c) ride a vehicle.

"road" means an area that is open to or used by the public and is developed for, or has as one of its main uses, the driving or riding of motor vehicles.

"road related area" means:

(a) an area that divides a road, or

(b) a footpath or nature strip adjacent to a road, or

(c) an area that is open to the public and is designated for use by cyclists or animals, or

(d) an area that is not a road and that is open to or used by the public for driving, riding or parking vehicles, or

(e) a shoulder of a road, or

(f) any other area that is open to or used by the public and that has been declared under section 15 of the Road Transport (General) Act 2005 to be an area to which specified provisions of this Act or the regulations apply.

(2) Offence-low range prescribed concentration of alcohol

A person must not, while there is present in his or her breath or blood the low range prescribed concentration of alcohol:

(a) drive a motor vehicle, or

(b) occupy the driving seat of a motor vehicle and attempt to put the motor vehicle in motion, or

(c) if the person is the holder of a driver licence (other than a provisional licence or a learner licence)-occupy the seat in a motor vehicle next to a learner driver who is driving the vehicle.

You'll have to make your own assessment of that one!

**russellw** · 29-07-2010, 09:42 PM

Northern Territory

carriageway means a portion of a public street improved, designed or ordinarily used for vehicular traffic and includes the shoulders and areas at the side or centre of the carriageway used for the standing or parking of vehicles including parking bays, and, where a public street has 2 or more portions divided by a reservation, means each portion separately.

public street means a street, road, lane, thoroughfare, footpath or place open to, or used by, the public and includes a road on land leased under the Special Purposes Leases Act for use as a road, but does not include:

(a) a road, or part of a road, which is closed under the Control of Roads Act or the Local Government Act ; or

(b) a street, road, lane, thoroughfare, footpath or other place under construction,

and not open to or used by the public.

(2) In this Part: (Drug and Alcohol offences)

drive :

(a) means the act of driving a motor vehicle; and

(b) includes starting the engine of a motor vehicle; and

(c) also includes putting a vehicle in motion; and

(d) includes attempting to do any of those things;

on a road, road-related area or public place.

(5) In this Part, a reference to driving under the influence of alcohol or a drug is taken to be a reference to driving a motor vehicle under the influence of alcohol or a drug, or any combination of alcohol and a drug or drugs, to such an extent as to be incapable of having proper control of the vehicle.

Consequently in the NT you are fundamentally free to do as you wish (within the guidelines of any other applicable Acts) on private property.

Cheers

Russ

StrokedXT · 29-07-2010, 10:33 PM

You cant mention street racing in a thread but discussing something as irresponsible and stupid as drink driving on private property is ok...Well go figure.

pottery beige · 29-07-2010, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeep_by_ford

You cant mention street racing in a thread but discussing something as irresponsible and stupid as drink driving on private property is ok...Well go figure.

and the price of eggs is ..??.......

vztrt · 29-07-2010, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pottery beige

and the price of eggs is ..??.......

Cage or free range?

bungarra · 30-07-2010, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by russellw

West Australia

Definitions

driver means any person driving a vehicle or animal;

drive includes —
(a) in relation to a vehicle, to have control over the steering, movement or propulsion of the vehicle;

(b) in relation to an animal, to be in control of the animal,

regardless of whether the vehicle or animal is usually referred to as being ridden rather than driven;

road means any highway, road or street open to, or used by, the public and includes every carriageway, footway, reservation, median strip and traffic island thereon;

63 . Driving under the influence of alcohol etc.

(1) A person who drives or attempts to drive a motor vehicle while under the influence of alcohol, drugs, or alcohol and drugs to such an extent as to be incapable of having proper control of the vehicle commits an offence, and the offender may be arrested without warrant.

64 . Driving with blood alcohol content of or above 0.08

(1) A person who drives or attempts to drive a motor vehicle while having a blood alcohol content of or above 0.08g of alcohol per 100ml of blood commits an offence.

In sections 54, 55 and 56 and in sections 59 to 72 inclusive, but not in section 62A, a reference, however expressed, to the driving of or attempting to drive a motor vehicle shall be construed as a reference to the driving of or attempting to drive a motor vehicle on a road or in any place to which the public is permitted, whether on payment of a fee or otherwise, to have access, and a reference to a driver shall be construed accordingly.

This would seem to preclude offences on private property although it would depend how the last point above is construed.

Cheers
Russ

Russ thanks for the info, was similar to what a former traffic inspector told me, but he did add that if there is reasonable belief that a driver had driven or was in the belief of the officer that the vehicle may be driven, the police can take action, but they do need to prove the onus. He did highlight the case of a driver in Mandurah who was taken to court for leaving his keys in his ingnition while the car was stationary, court ruled that unless the driveway was closed gate it was determined public access and driveways are ruled as "roadway", hence all laws apply.

Airmon · 30-07-2010, 01:00 AM

Well I got picked up for Drink Walking the other day, So I'd have a fair stab and say that in NSW you can be done for Drink Driving on private property.
If not Im sure they could get you for something else. Reckless endangering perhaps?
Either way I'd say its not a good idea to be in the operation of anything of that nature while intoxicated, and that if you're caught I wouldnt imagine you to be likely to get off on a technicality.

Would be interesting though, say the car was a paddock basher? Then does that translate to bikes and 4wheelers?

morak001 · 30-07-2010, 05:10 AM

I've only did a couple of law subjects at uni, but, from what I understand one needs to be careful when referring to written acts alone as the actual interpretation may be a little different to what is the obvious (or may appear to be obvious). Seemingly minor details can make a significant difference to an outcome and thus case examples may be considered an accurate reference, Mr. Flappist gets my vote for this.

Just thinking though, would other offences be applicable if the road traffic act did not apply?