people still buying holdens/hsv? - Page 2

Chopped · 23-09-2011, 01:23 PM

Sourced from inside this forum (wheels comparo)>

0-100 = SV6 6.46 / XR6 6.76

400m = SV6 14.62 / XR6 14.87

Despite what many on AFF think, The Falcon 6 is not the messiah, it's a very naughty engine (when fitted with a turbo!!!).

HSVs look very different to SS commodores, this makes them appear to be more "exclusive" or "special".

Both FPV and HSV are Aussie products that can challenge international brands that are far more expensive, we should be proud of both.

xisled · 23-09-2011, 01:40 PM

IMO the FG is an ugly car, It looks like ford have gone half way between a European Car and an Aussie car. It looks like they could not decide which way to go, so they stopped in the middle. If you have a look at a brand new HSV they look 10 times better than any thing Ford can offer.

Also with the Ford range at the moment, if you buy a base model XT, it looks similar to a FPV GT, but with Holden the Omega looks nothing like a R8.

**Polyal** · 23-09-2011, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xisled

IMO the FG is an ugly car, It looks like ford have gone half way between a European Car and an Aussie car. It looks like they could not decide which way to go, so they stopped in the middle. If you have a look at a brand new HSV they look 10 times better than any thing Ford can offer.

Also with the Ford range at the moment, if you buy a base model XT, it looks similar to a FPV GT, but with Holden the Omega looks nothing like a R8.

1. The new XT, FG2 is a great looking car

2. I think you will find even Holden people struggle to accept the E3

3. I guess we are all entitled to our opinion.

It would be interesting, if anyone could be bothered, to put Holden vs Ford Pics next to each other. At the end of the day beauty is in the eye of the beholder but the Fords are much more classier.

StrikeTwiceXR6 · 23-09-2011, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xisled

IMO the FG is an ugly car, It looks like ford have gone half way between a European Car and an Aussie car. It looks like they could not decide which way to go, so they stopped in the middle. If you have a look at a brand new HSV they look 10 times better than any thing Ford can offer.

Also with the Ford range at the moment, if you buy a base model XT, it looks similar to a FPV GT, but with Holden the Omega looks nothing like a R8.

(1) The VE looks like a bulldozer front on with the pumped guards.
(2) HSV's styling consists of copying the latest BMW front quarter panel flutes, and Audi with the "angel eyes" (Nothing European there?), which makes the latest HSV a dogs breakfast when it comes to exterior styling.
(3) And the HSV ute rear end!

Each to their own.

BLUEYBA · 23-09-2011, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xisled

IMO the FG is an ugly car, It looks like ford have gone half way between a European Car and an Aussie car. It looks like they could not decide which way to go, so they stopped in the middle. If you have a look at a brand new HSV they look 10 times better than any thing Ford can offer.

Also with the Ford range at the moment, if you buy a base model XT, it looks similar to a FPV GT, but with Holden the Omega looks nothing like a R8.

Holden/HSV have gone all retro with the Commodore. It definitely isn't a ground breaking design nor is it one that is contemporary. We all know where the flared guards come from and not being able to see out of them, well there plenty of old cars with that problem

BLUEYBA · 23-09-2011, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StrikeTwiceXR6

(1) The VE looks like a bulldozer front on with the pumped guards.
(2) HSV's styling consists of copying the latest BMW front quarter panel flutes, and Audi with the "angel eyes" (Nothing European there?), which makes the latest HSV a dogs breakfast when it comes to exterior styling.
(3) And the HSV ute rear end!

Each to their own.

Have to agree. With point 2 its like they weren't sure which way to go so they decided to mix and it hasn't worked (my opinion)
Definitely agree with the rear of the ute. yuk

Joe5619 · 23-09-2011, 02:05 PM

People truly do make me laugh.. There is NOTHING wrong with a Commodore or HSV & they are very very very very very similar cars to a Falcon or FPV.. People trying to say one is great & the other is crap, are truly kidding themselves!!

Ryan · 23-09-2011, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

2. I think you will find even Holden people struggle to accept the E3
.

I'm actually kind of mixed with them. When they were first released I didn't know what to think, but seeing one in the flesh offers a fresh perspective IMO. I would get a Clubport/R8, or GTS in black, but that's really the only colour I would get an E3 in. Still prefer the E1s though.

**Polyal** · 23-09-2011, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan

I'm actually kind of mixed with them. When they were first released I didn't know what to think, but seeing one in the flesh offers a fresh perspective IMO. I would get a Clubport/R8, or GTS in black, but that's really the only colour I would get an E3 in. Still prefer the E1s though.

I like the tail lights, but mainly because they are different. The lower section of the rear and the front end is just a mess. E1 kills them for sure.

RAPID_BA · 23-09-2011, 02:22 PM

HSV has added every p-plater go fast stick on mod possible, day time lights, nostril air scoops, flared guards, massive front air dam.

Park it next to a FPV which is considerably more subtle, you would swear the HSV is quicker by the look of it.. But its the Sheep in wolfs clothes where the FPV is the wolf in sheeps clothing.

The SV6 is not bad for a family man sort of a car, a pretend SS, but no torque under about 5000rpm. In 95% of driving the I6 will kick the SV6 into touch, the other 5% above 5500rpm its about even.

I would think even a EF I6 with its 357nm and 157kw would give the current crop of VE commodore 3.0L the hurry up.

Brazen · 23-09-2011, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HULK_BA

The SV6 is not bad for a family man sort of a car, a pretend SS, but no torque under about 5000rpm. In 95% of driving the I6 will kick the SV6 into touch, the other 5% above 5500rpm its about even.

Maximum torque for a SIDI SV6 is at 2900rpm

Maximum torque for a FG XR6 is at 3250rpm

I actually wonder how many people have driven the direct injected 3.6 Commodore?

For me, seat of the pants the Commodore has a much better torque curve nowadays than the Falcon. The Falcon I6 is great but it's a couple of generations behind the Commodore now. I actually prefer the Commodore to tow than Falcon nowadays - amazing how the tables have turned compared to say 5 years ago.

Wretched · 23-09-2011, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

...

I actually wonder how many people have driven the direct injected 3.6 Commodore?

...

I wonder how many actually have a driver's license.

davez104 · 23-09-2011, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HULK_BA

HSV has added every p-plater go fast stick on mod possible, day time lights, nostril air scoops, flared guards, massive front air dam.

And I bet the majority of under 25, P plated guys idolise the things. Ford doesn't see those drivers as a market as not many of them can afford a new car, but in 10 years time, when they can afford it, guess which dealer they'll be lining up outside. The impression has already been made.

Powdered Toast Man · 23-09-2011, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davez104

And I bet the majority of under 25, P plated guys idolise the things. Ford doesn't see those drivers as a market as not many of them can afford a new car, but in 10 years time, when they can afford it, guess which dealer they'll be lining up outside. The impression has already been made.

Thats ok, in 10 years you wont be able to buy a new Falcon anyway.

Like has been mentioned the current FPV range doesnt look different enough from the regular cooking models and just blend in. Ive seen a few FG GTs including a S/C version and unless you are really interested you will miss them as being something special.

I think Holden are probably giving better fleet discounts too meaning price is a big factor. SS,s, V8 Calais Vs and HSVs are company hacks nowadays in the user chooser modern world.

dimka100 · 23-09-2011, 03:05 PM

It seems like there are numerous fanboy members on this forum that are a little delusional about the performance of the N/A IE6

I’m as an owner of an FG which is filled with 98 only, know exactly how fast the I6 is, and having sampled the new SDI SV6 I know it’s definitely faster … numerous magazines have proven so as well.

While the ECoLPI might be a tiny bit faster than the Petrol it is also 70KG heavier, and is unlikely to beat the SV6 – at best case it will match it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

Maximum torque for a SIDI SV6 is at 2900rpm

Maximum torque for a FG XR6 is at 3250rpm

I actually wonder how many people have driven the direct injected 3.6 Commodore?

For me, seat of the pants the Commodore has a much better torque curve nowadays than the Falcon. The Falcon I6 is great but it's a couple of generations behind the Commodore now. I actually prefer the Commodore to tow than Falcon nowadays - amazing how the tables have turned compared to say 5 years ago.

FPT · 23-09-2011, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

Maximum torque for a SIDI SV6 is at 2900rpm

Maximum torque for a FG XR6 is at 3250rpm

Yeah don't bother mentioning how much torque they have.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

I actually wonder how many people have driven the direct injected 3.6 Commodore?

For me, seat of the pants the Commodore has a much better torque curve nowadays than the Falcon. The Falcon I6 is great but it's a couple of generations behind the Commodore now. I actually prefer the Commodore to tow than Falcon nowadays - amazing how the tables have turned compared to say 5 years ago.

Yes, driven them, the 4 litre is better down low and almost across the board. Sounds better too. If falcon had inferior power I'd still get it for it's gearbox and generally better driving feel.

How is it a couple of generations behind? The fact we now have a falcon on gas that is superior to the sidi 3.6 shows how advanced the alloytec is.

**DJM83** · 23-09-2011, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

LOL I quite clearly remember that being FTe's mantra at one time

Yep went full circle really.

Rodge · 23-09-2011, 03:39 PM

I think people like the pumped guards. I would have thought Ford would have worked that out by now. But as for the E3 HSV that was clearly the result of a schoolkids design competition

RAPID_BA · 23-09-2011, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

Maximum torque for a SIDI SV6 is at 2900rpm

Maximum torque for a FG XR6 is at 3250rpm

I actually wonder how many people have driven the direct injected 3.6 Commodore?

.

Maximum torque for falcon is on 400nm at 3250rpm

Maximum torque for the SISI SV6 is 300nm

I have driven it, it was the replacement for the old 3.8 supercharged V6 which spanked it. Supercharged V6 had falcon like torque with 375nm.

As I said SV6 is ok at full throttle like a honda Vtec motor but no torque when rolling around.

KS290 · 23-09-2011, 03:52 PM

So Hulk do you buy a car / not buy a car purely on the size and output of its engine? There seems to be lot of comments here just talking about the performance of the 3.6 v 4.0 but most of these buyers are “family” type guys who maybe couldn’t give a hoot if one is slightly quicker in a straight line, especially in this country with its draconian speed limits. Also the fleet purchases, hire car companies probably base their purchases on the best deals/most reliable aspects and again could not care less about performance.

The fact is the 2 cars are very similar in spec and dimensions etc and Holden market their cars better and I believe make less profit per car than Ford but make up for it in volume.

Maybe post a new thread in the performance section and turn the argument into FPV and HSV as it seems a few kw’s here and there are more important to those guys.

stevz · 23-09-2011, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HULK_BA

Maximum torque for falcon is on 400nm at 3250rpm

Maximum torque for the SISI SV6 is 300nm

I have driven it, it was the replacement for the old 3.8 supercharged V6 which spanked it. Supercharged V6 had falcon like torque with 375nm.

As I said SV6 is ok at full throttle like a honda Vtec motor but no torque when rolling around.

You can't even get your facts straight, it's 391nm for the FG I6 and 350nm for the sidi 3.6, hardly a massive difference.
Your delusional comments are proof that you've never driven a 3.6 sidi. Enough said.

dimka100 · 23-09-2011, 03:55 PM

The popular VTEC Honda engines never actually had good torque, their so called performance came from the secondary camshaft profile that used to come on at about 5700RPM on most of their performance engine variants (1.6,1.8,2.0), this secondary cam profile allowed the engine to keep producing reasonable torque at the point where most normal engines would run out of breath … hence the HP was not so bad for a small NA engine.

The latest 3.6ltr SIDI is no such thing however, it actually produces good torque across the whole engine revs while still managing a decent top end, technically speaking it also has a number of features which DO make it a number of generations ahead of the Ford I6.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HULK_BA

As I said SV6 is ok at full throttle like a honda Vtec motor but no torque when rolling around.

FPT · 23-09-2011, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HULK_BA

Maximum torque for falcon is on 391nm at 3250rpm

Maximum torque for the SISI SV6 is 350nm@2900rpm.

Fixed.

AMGC63 · 23-09-2011, 04:06 PM

What was the topic again?

FPT · 23-09-2011, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AMGC63

What was the topic again?

Why people are delusional about VE being better than FG.

jpd80 · 23-09-2011, 04:43 PM

Holden sells around 12,000 v8 Commodore ute/sedan/Sportwagons a year, the message in that
is that Commodore buyers and Falcon buyers are not the same demographic and that just copying
what Holden does is by no means a guarantee of successful falcon products.

Ford is better off establishing new markets for falcon based products, look at diesel Territory for one
and EcoLPI in sedans and Ute for another two, perhaps Ecoboost I-4 will also boost Falcon sales...

Not a V8 in sight and Ford still has the potential to sell so many Falcon based products, I'd say that's a great move...

Leave the V8s and Turbo sixes to the knuckle dragger mouth breathers at the drags, the buying public couldn't give a rats...

FPV0002 · 23-09-2011, 05:07 PM

Most of the guys I work with are Holden/HSV owners/fans. When I tell them I own a FPV F6, only a very small minority even know what an F6 is, none of them know that a s/charged FPV exists! Needless to say they all know kW figures, engine sizes etc of the Entire Holden range. Personally it doesn't bother me, I enjoy owning something different.

**DJM83** · 23-09-2011, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XW-221

Why people are delusional about VE being better than FG.

Couldnt care if it is, neither of them interest me anyway.

davez104 · 23-09-2011, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Powdered Toast Man

Thats ok, in 10 years you wont be able to buy a new Falcon anyway.

Maybe so, but Holden have always had the "hero car" for the youngsters to aspire to. Ford won't build them because they don't sell. They might not sell, but they build the brand image, hence why Holden will continue to outsell Ford forever in a day.

Cano90 · 23-09-2011, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HULK_BA

HSV has added every p-plater go fast stick on mod possible, day time lights, nostril air scoops, flared guards, massive front air dam.

Park it next to a FPV which is considerably more subtle, you would swear the HSV is quicker by the look of it.. But its the Sheep in wolfs clothes where the FPV is the wolf in sheeps clothing.

The SV6 is not bad for a family man sort of a car, a pretend SS, but no torque under about 5000rpm. In 95% of driving the I6 will kick the SV6 into touch, the other 5% above 5500rpm its about even.

I would think even a EF I6 with its 357nm and 157kw would give the current crop of VE commodore 3.0L the hurry up.

Wasn't this thread about sales?????
Not performance of Holden vs Ford?????