Sick People in this world.

[Reaper8]

The only issue this country has with firearm is in the illegal trade and that is were the focus should be on. The greens have already jumped on this and started another push against people doing the right thing as we are easy targets. more money should be going into customs for them to stop the illegal import of fireams into this country and out of the hand of the scum that will use them like this. If we cant stop boat loads of people wanting to get caught how can we stop drugs and firearms coming in. Remember firearms are only a tool and in the right hands are as safe as a spanner in the hands of a scumbag their dangerous.

[Jim Goose]

wowee.. how appt... from discussing a murderous rampage, mental issues and gun culture to the greens and boat people... can we throw in some comments about commies as well?

[NickyN]

I don't know how much harder it is to get a gun there since I don't know the laws in AU. What I can say is that every state here has different laws about owning a gun and carrying a concealed weapon, some more liberal than others. And we have 50 states. I've heard that in some southern states you can mount a gun rack to the back of your pickup. I'm glad I don't live in a state where the guy in line next to me at a gas station could be legally carrying a concealed weapon.

But just because someone is in the US doesn't mean anyone can walk into Sports Authority, Kmart or some gun shop and walk out with a gun. There are permits, background checks and licensing involved. I've shot handguns before and it's not for me. The ppl I know who have guns keep them stored properly and safely, securing them with gun locks and store bullets somewhere else. Guns in the wrong hands can kill, we all know that.

RIP to those who lost their lives in Colorado

[NickyN]

Oh one more thing. Here, the NRA (National Rifle Association) are big players in politics and well, 'nuff said right? Politics, $, more $ and politics - special interest groups.

[Reaper8]

Originally Posted by wrongwaynorris

8 million undiagnosed serious mental illnesses , over 200 million privately owned guns that the FBI know of , estimates put actual numbers as high as 400 million and the ridiculous scenario of being able to buy guns and ammo from places such as KMart and we wonder why these things happen . There is absolutely and utterly NO reason whatsoever for anyone other than the military , law enforcement , specialist security providers and farmers to own a gun

its these comments about no one should have a firearm that i put my response to. I am entitled to defend my sport. My reference to boat people was to highlight how easy our borders are to get through.

[NickyN]

You make a valid point.

[Reaper8]

I dont want to start fights All i am saying in every sport and hobby there are *******, we have very tough gun laws in this country. I have spent over $800 alone on a gun safe and its bolted to the brickwork of my house so i know my firearms arnt going anywhere, i had to wait 6 months before getting cleared by sa police to do my firearms course and then 2 mths to get my licence, a 6mth wait to buy my first pistol. I get house calls by sapol to check my firearms are stored correctly and registered.The big problem is people are not scared to go the illegal way as it takes less time and if you get done you get away with a slap on the wrist.

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by NickyN

And that's what's scary. Just never know when someone will snap and go nuts.

and that is why bullies and people in general need to pull their heads in
if you force a dog into a corner, it will attack
push a weak or mentally challenged kid into a corner and he/she will start a life long obsession with getting revenge

the guy who did this should and no doubt will spend the rest of his life behind bars. maybe they should introduce a painful execution technique, but if they do, then this type of person will just shoot and shoot and shoot until the police kill him. unfortunately, by then, many more may be killed

the person who did this is likely to be totally different from the mongrels that started the fire, called the volunteer, threatened his wife, stole what they could and torched the house. those mongrels were quite possibly the bully type, where until this weekend the shooter in the us was probably a victim - and he could take no more. he still deserves to suffer for what he did, but if things were different as a kid, then it may never have happened

and that is the saddest part of all - things might have been so much different, if others had shown respect

[JC]

Originally Posted by Reaper8

The only issue this country has with firearm is in the illegal trade and that is were the focus should be on. The greens have already jumped on this and started another push against people doing the right thing as we are easy targets. more money should be going into customs for them to stop the illegal import of fireams into this country and out of the hand of the scum that will use them like this. If we cant stop boat loads of people wanting to get caught how can we stop drugs and firearms coming in. Remember firearms are only a tool and in the right hands are as safe as a spanner in the hands of a scumbag their dangerous.

The only problem with the spanner analogy is that a hand gun that holds 9 rounds can hit 9 targets in 9 trigger presses - let's say 4 or 5 seconds. Let's say 50% are kill shots, so that's 4 or 5 dead, 5 or 4 injured at close range in under 5 seconds. To hit that many people with one spanner and inflict similar damage takes a lot longer, and after the first few blows (unlikely to be fatal, but let's say one lands hard enough on the head, so there's one death in 15 or 20 seconds), the person wielding the spanner is likely to be overpowered by the crowd.

So while guns are not responsible for murder per se, they are responsible for "fast murder", and so to me, the ease with which a gun kills is why people choose to use them, and let's face it, they are designed only for one thing - to kill. You may say you can use them for sport, but gun shooting is not a sport - and I don't care it's in the olympics - they are based on military events anyway. Gun shooting is practice to kill. Whether that is people or animals, it is still killing, right or wrong.

A spanner's primary purpose on the other hand is to build, or repair things - so much the opposite end of the spectrum to guns it's not funny.

If I could, I would destroy all guns - come up with a really good, practical and necessary reason for a gun, and I may change my mind. But often the argument for a gun is to protect oneself from another with a gun. Take the guns away, and what is the need? Keep in mind we don't need to shoot our food any more - abattoirs take care of the killing process for us. If you want to shoot something for sport, take up xbox or PS3 (some of the games are realistic enough).

[csv8]

This is America...

[Reaper8]

And if you empy a 9 round mag in 4 seconds you wouldnt hit a thing, have a look at the bikie shootings. they are not a point and hit item it takes a lot of practice to hit things with a pistol. i know its not everyone's cup of tea but neither are cars, there are a lot of people that say you souldnt modify them you dont need to go fast but people enjoy them and people abuse them. sadly people kill other people with them, most times they dont mean it but sometimes they do.

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by JC

If I could, I would destroy all guns - come up with a really good, practical and necessary reason for a gun, and I may change my mind. But often the argument for a gun is to protect oneself from another with a gun. Take the guns away, and what is the need? Keep in mind we don't need to shoot our food any more - abattoirs take care of the killing process for us. If you want to shoot something for sport, take up xbox or PS3 (some of the games are realistic enough).

i agree with your first 3 paragraphs, but getting rid of all guns, is like getting rid of nudge bars or high performance cars. the average person doesn't need either, but to those who have them, they are valued

i have never owned a gun, but held a shooter's licence in the early 90's. that was the time when they were supposed to be hard to get, but were very, very easy. the only hard bit was waiting a month or 2. the current laws are just about right in my opinion. most people in australia who have them legally do not use them for illegal purposes. sure there are some bad eggs, but i think the current laws are about right

some people like to go to a shooting range, just like others like to go to a drag strip or for a drive out in the country. should they be penalised too much because of this passion. if the owner has a licence and the gun is locked up in a separate box to the ammunition, i don't see where the problem is. if they were planning to go crazy anyway there are other ways to inflict terrible injuries onto many people. you don't need a gun to do that. however, the laws we have make it harder for someone to make a snap decision and go and shoot many people

while i haven't been hunting/sport shooting much at all and haven't been for over 20 years, the xbox is nothing like shooting for sport. i personally do not see a difference in shooting a person or an animal (they both only have one life to give), so i choose not to, but if someone wants to shoot at targets or to catch their food for the night, then why shouldn't they be allowed to

[BPXR6T]

Originally Posted by JC

If I could, I would destroy all guns - come up with a really good, practical and necessary reason for a gun, and I may change my mind. But often the argument for a gun is to protect oneself from another with a gun. Take the guns away, and what is the need? Keep in mind we don't need to shoot our food any more - abattoirs take care of the killing process for us. If you want to shoot something for sport, take up xbox or PS3 (some of the games are realistic enough).

Step outside your suburban life and you'll see pretty quickly why I need a gun. The problem with the U.S is the type of gun and the ease of access. Why the hell does someone need an assault rifle in the burbs or anywhere other than a war zone for that matter. However I suspect no access to guns wouldn't have stopped this guy. Bombs are easy enough to make.

[NickyN]

Originally Posted by csv8

This is America...

That's unfair to generalize to all of the US. The 2nd Amendment gives citizens the right to bear arms. Not the right to kill. There's a big difference there. Like I wrote earlier, the NRA plays a big part in laws and the problem lies with lobbyists, money and special interest groups.

The nutcase in CO had his mind set on his shooting spree that night. He would have found some way to get the cache he wanted, he would have just bought more online. From what I've read, CO is one of the easiest states to acquire a gun and carry it concealed. It might have been more difficult for him if he lived in another state, who knows.

[NickyN]

Originally Posted by Reaper8

its these comments about no one should have a firearm that i put my response to. I am entitled to defend my sport. My reference to boat people was to highlight how easy our borders are to get through.

I agree, riflery, target shooting, whatever it's called, it's a sport. It's a skill.

[pottery beige]

two words.. mental health..

way to easy for gumbyments to hide these people that need help amongst us...

[NickyN]

Exactly. And that's why gun laws need to be stricter, period.

[H.G]

and all he or any other wack job ever want is to be remembered..
so far so good.. because each time a new wack job hits the streets all the old ones get brought back to life as well.. its a vicious circle and our NEED to be informed feeds these peoples NEED to be remebered.

[JC]

Originally Posted by BPXR6T

Step outside your suburban life and you'll see pretty quickly why I need a gun. The problem with the U.S is the type of gun and the ease of access. Why the hell does someone need an assault rifle in the burbs or anywhere other than a war zone for that matter. However I suspect no access to guns wouldn't have stopped this guy. Bombs are easy enough to make.

Yep, I understand from a non-suburban view point. But a glock and an assault rifle on a farm? Not likely. A good old 303 (or equivalent) and a 12 gauge may be what is required.

I can see why banning all guns may not be the right thing to do, but there is no argument that they are made to kill, to kill quickly and to kill in bulk if required. Not too mane other man made things invented to do quite the same thing on such a large scale, and I'm going to lob bombs (pun intended), missiles, grenades and bazookas etc into the same mix here, as they essentially work on the same or similar principle. I know we can't necessarily un-invent something, but given the intended purpose, surely we should severely restrict their use to those who actually need it/them?

I don't know the answer, I just know as a non-shooter, the answer to me is perfectly clear, but of course other's needs (and I reiterate - it must be NEEDS, not wants given what these things are capable of) do need to be considered. But in this PC world we now live in, wants are seen as rights, whether there is a genuine need or not.

[ThaFlash]

i thought it was just natures way, this whole shooting thing, but for some reason, it doesn't seem to happen where it needs to happen.

sad state of affairs when little kids die for nuffin!

[JC]

Originally Posted by Reaper8

And it begins, i am a licenced shooter so am i going to go on a rampage with mine No. you like cars and could quite easily run people over (its been done). Look at what people use now in robbery's since our laws have been changed, bats, axe's, blood filled needles, need i go on.

Bats were invented for what? Sport. They use is modified when they are used as a weapon.

Axes - invented to cut down trees. Use modified when used as a weapon.

Blood filled needles. Needles invented to administer aid/medicine. Use modified for illicit drugs, and then once again as a weapon (aids, anyone??)

Cars progressive invention for transportation. Cars are a progression from horse and cart, and before that, horse and bag. If used as a weapon, then there is a big modification from intended use.

In all the above cases, the modified use of each means the item has become a weapon of opportunity, not design.

Guns - invented to kill. Simple. Progression of spears and swords - also weapons.

You want to kill someone with a gun? Too easy - get said gun, put some ammo in it aim and shoot. You want to kill someone with any of the other things you listed - it takes a bit more thought, and usually more time to kill someone by other means, and also usually less people at one time especially when comparing to a semi or automatic weapon. See how I used "weapon" there but you knew straight away I meant gun; that is a common thing people do, but only applies to guns and not anything else in the list.

Guns don't kill people. People kill people. But using a gun makes it easier.

Anyway, I guess my point is that no matter how you justify guns, I do not condone them because they are made only to kill, and I believe that killing someone intentionally is wrong and should be punished more than it currently is (ironically, I do believe in the death penalty for those that kill). These are my views only, I'm fairly sure they're not against site T&C and hopefully some of you get where I am coming from, even if you choose not to agree.

[Pis-ton broke]

yeah there are some sick people walking around, in my youth i used to hang around with a pretty rough crowd, and i don,t have the time of day for them now days. But some of them were very unscruplous and vilolent. You don,t need a gun or a knife to serious harm or kill, its a mental descion. I knew a bloke that jumped on some guys leg while his leg was across a gutter, did brake it to, my friend told me about it but you wouldn,t thought it of him. And his son was a dick as well.

My point is that there are plenty of nuts walking around in society, and you wouldn,t even know it. It just think that under certain situations it brings out the worst in people and some people have poor selfcontrol.

[JC]

Originally Posted by NickyN

I agree, riflery, target shooting, whatever it's called, it's a sport. It's a skill.

Just because something is a skill doesn't make it a sport.

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by JC

Bats were invented for what? Sport. They use is modified when they are used as a weapon.

Axes - invented to cut down trees. Use modified when used as a weapon

cavemen had clubs long before w.g grace had a cricket bat or babe ruth hit a homer
axes were probably used to cut up food before trees

i get where you are coming from, but guns were probably used for self defence and hunting long before they became a tool for just killing people. there were battering rams long before cars were invented so i guess everything we use now has probably been modified from a weapon of some sort


not trying to disagree as such, but we do have fairly stringent gun laws and it seems that many of the guns used in planned cold blooded murders are not legal ones anyway. america seems to have a problem with gun ownership, but i think ours is close to right

i do agree with most of what you have said, but i don't think banning guns is the answer

and i apologise for this potentially being in bad taste, but if a whacko was going to take me out of the world, i would rather he use a gun - over a club, knife, blood filled syringe, car or virtually anything else

[irish2]

Originally Posted by NickyN

Exactly. And that's why gun laws need to be stricter, period.

This is exactly what the governments want. Ten police with guns can disperse a crowd of thousands in a country like Australia. As a group you have no power to stand up and defend yourselves against the status quo. You only have to look at what has happened in Egypt, and Libya to see what sort of things an armed populace can achieve. Foreign goverments supported the actions of the uprising but they themselves fear it. In Australia however the government can do what it likes, when it likes, without fear of any sort of up rising.

[irish2]

Originally Posted by JC

Just because something is a skill doesn't make it a sport.

Archery is considered a sport, so how can shooting not be?

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by irish2

This is exactly what the governments want. Ten police with guns can disperse a crowd of thousands in a country like Australia. As a group you have no power to stand up and defend yourselves against the status quo. You only have to look at what has happened in Egypt, and Libya to see what sort of things an armed populace can achieve. Foreign goverments supported the actions of the uprising but they themselves fear it. In Australia however the government can do what it likes, when it likes, without fear of any sort of up rising.

not sure if this changes your answer, but nicky n is based in america - many of us feel that america's rules are too lax

[irish2]

Originally Posted by gtxb67

not sure if this changes your answer, but nicky n is based in america - many of us feel that america's rules are too lax

America does have some lax rules in reguards to guns, but it has been proven here over time that gun crime increased since the laws were changed. It is the poor old shop owners who might have had a gun under the counter that the criminals have no fear of. If he does have a gun it has to be locked in a safe with the ammo locked in a seperate one.

[I reckon]

Atleast when the masscare happened in Australia with martin bryant they did something about it.
In America they just send prayers to each other and ***** about it but do sweet FA so untill they do somethiung about gun control it will keep happening.
300 people in the USA are shot everyday it said on the news thats alot of shootings!

[irish2]

Originally Posted by piggsy

Atleast when the masscare happened in Australia with martin bryant they did something about it.
In America they just send prayers to each other and ***** about it but do sweet FA so untill they do somethiung about gun control it will keep happening.
300 people in the USA are shot everyday it said on the news thats alot of shootings!

Out of 400 million people 300 isn't a lot. Gun crime didn't slow down in Australia when tighter laws were imposed, why would it in America?