True test of the red faith - Holden Volt

[music189]

I have always thought electric cars with a petrol engine to keep the batterys charged was the way to go pity GM is bringing it out first

Its fully imported of course and dont we have a free trade agreement with USA so no duty either.

but it way to much money for it.

I was talking to a woman customer a while back and she was drining a Mazda tribute and needed to replace it as they neede something to tow a camper trailer with 3 kids blah blah I suggested a Territory but hubby would not have Ford in the driveway when wifey suggested the Tribute was also a Ford escape she was wrong and he said no way was that correct.

Shows some people cant see anything else than Red stuff

[mik]

it does seem a simpler system than the hybrid, i wonder how long the batteries will last in this scenario?

[mr smith]

Originally Posted by SCUD

A mate of mine bought a Holden Captiva, despite how crap they are, simply because its a Holden.

A bloke at my missus work has one and swore black and blue it was made in Australia because it was a Holden!!
Holden probably has the bottom of the bottom of the class vehicle in every class its in and people still buy them, that badge has massive appeal.

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by mr smith

A bloke at my missus work has one and swore black and blue it was made in Australia because it was a Holden!!

Ask him where Chevrolet Commodores are made!

Also happens in reverse.
I worked with a guy who bought a secondhand Daewoo. It must be a good car because Holden sell Daewoos with Holden badges on them.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Peter B - CV8

Yep, at that price you can rule out any "bogan" buyers. It will be interesting to see what comparable product Ford Australia will bring out....

They are looking at the Focus EV.


I think Holden have said they will be looking to sell around 200 a year of the Volt, and they will lose money on everyone they sell. They are selling them soley as a way to brainwash the sheep into believing they are green.

Just look at the Volt commercials, they make out like they designed and built the thing. Scary thing is that most brain dead Holden lovers probably believe it.

[Nikked]

Imgaine if Ford Au dropped the Focus EV powerplant with the EB4 into the falcon...

[nstg8a]

Originally Posted by Nikked

Imgaine if Ford Au dropped the Focus EV powerplant with the EB4 into the falcon...

then they wouldnt tell anyone, and park it out the back wondering why noone wants it.

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by Nikked

Imgaine if Ford Au dropped the Focus EV powerplant with the EB4 into the falcon...

Originally Posted by nstg8a

then they wouldnt tell anyone, and park it out the back wondering why noone wants it.

Park it out the back and tell no-one?
Nope, park 4000 out the back and then ask Julia or Kevin to buy them as Government vehicles.

[burnz]

may as well put this in here..
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/tra...-1226434051354

A HOLDEN Commodore has driven more than 1800km in a day running on battery power.
In what is believed to be world record for an electrically charged car – subject to official confirmation – the Commodore developed by EV Engineering drove 1886km over a 24-hour period last weekend.
The car covered a 122km loop - which would leave the lithium-ion battery with as little as 20 per cent charge remaining - but a battery switch system allowed the car to get back on the road quickly.
Normal EVs can take up to eight hours to fully re-charge batteries.
A crew of 16 kept the car (one of seven electric Commodores built by the company) on the loop, which EV Engineering said was all public roads between Port Melbourne and Geelong at normal driving speeds and using the car's heating and other features.

"We were able to quickly switch our depleted battery for a fully charged one, so we didn't have to park and plug in in order to recharge,'' he said.

We just travelled at the speed limits and not getting in the way of traffic, we used the heater and the air conditioning as required,'' EV Engineering CEO Ian McCleave said.
"While our achievement is not an official record, it's a sound validation of our cars capabilities. We're happy with the range we're getting out of the car, there was still 20 to 25 per cent charge left which suggests a 150km range.”
While Mr McCleave, formerly planning and program management executive director at GM Holden, was unwilling to talk about future plans, the future for EV Engineering's electric Commodore is promising.
"We're winding up phase one and wanted to celebrate the achievements, we're thinking about looking at an official record attempt,'' he said.
The official record is held by the Renault Zoe - which used fast chargers instead of battery swapping - at 1618km.
The system used to switch the battery is a scaled-down version of the Battery Switch Stations that will be rolled out in Australia by Better Place. Australia is the third market for Better Place, which already has operational networks in Israel and Denmark.
The Society of Automotive Engineers Australasia (SAE) observed the 24-hour trial across its entire 24- hour duration and it has confirmed one electric Commodore covered the 1886km in a continuous 24-hour period.
Based in Port Melbourne (near GM Holden's Melbourne headquarters) EV Engineering is made up of a group of Australian automotive suppliers - Air International, Bosch, Continental, Futuris, GE, and recharge network company Better Place.

[purnong]

The biggest concern with these things is the battery packs and how to deal with them in a crash
Lithium-ion batteries can be quite dangerous and explosive, Remember the laptop battery fires from a few years ago?
Also look up Chevy Volt buyback and Chevy Volt battery explosion on Google
Another thing to be thinking about down the track is how much the batteries are to replace? I have read figures of $10k

[burnz]

Originally Posted by purnong

The biggest concern with these things is the battery packs and how to deal with them in a crash
Lithium-ion batteries can be quite dangerous and explosive, Remember the laptop battery fires from a few years ago?
Also look up Chevy Volt buyback and Chevy Volt battery explosion on Google
Another thing to be thinking about down the track is how much the batteries are to replace? I have read figures of $10k

if you look up google, the fire started six weeks after the crash test was done.
while the car waited to be crushed at the local wreakers.

[jpd80]

Ford C-Max Energi Plug In Hybrid will be sold in USA for less than Prius V and gives 20 miles on batteries,
That's in between the Prius V and GM Volt but the C-max Energi will be about $15,000 less than the Volt
without US government subsidies..

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by purnong

Another thing to be thinking about down the track is how much the batteries are to replace? I have read figures of $10k

"
Will I ever have to replace the hybrid battery?

Almost certainly not. Our hybrid batteries are designed to last the typical life of your vehicle.

We're so convinced with the outstanding reliability track-record and longevity of our hybrid batteries that we've recently extended our battery warranty period to 8 years or 160,000km (whichever occurs first).

There are many corporate and taxi fleets operating hybrid vehicles around Australia. For these businesses reliability is essential as these their vehicles travel tens of thousands of kilometres per year.
"

See http://www.toyota.com.au/hybrid-syne.../ask-an-expert.

[mrghia]

just a fancier version of the car top gear made they should sue them.

[Brazen]

It is very possible they can build this in Australia on the Cruze line. It will probably end up being a mild-EV Cruze or hybrid.

[2011G6E]

Like most of these overpriced limited use cars (Leaf, Prius (to a lesser extent), etc), it will find a following mainly amongst a small number of trendy people who will sit around coffee shops in the city and wonder why we all don't buy one, silly us sticking to our petrol-only burners.

A few problems are hard to overcome. True usefulness...some of them can't venture too far from a power point. Space...because of packaging, they're built on tiny scales and light tinny weight...do not try to fit the full compliment of passengers into a Prius taxi if you are all normal size blokes and one of you is a huge Kiwi, let me assure you .

Resale is a big issue, and a big unknown. They still aren't sure what the future value of a Prius is, and they've been out for a few years. How long do the batteries last? Which future owner is going to be the poor sap stung with the replacement cost? How long do the batteries, more importantly, charge to full capacity, as they deteriorate over time in that way.

The Volt is clever, yes...but there have been some road tests that show it's very limited as well. Naysayers will say the road test was too strict, but if you read them, they're pretty much the way the average road user would drive the thing.

No car should come with a careful series of caveats about where and when you can use it to get near the manufacturers claims...if it does, it's nothing more than a trendy toy, showing that the focus studies about, for example, the Prius were true: people like the "different" look of it over "normal looking" hybrdis like the Honda Civic and Camry, because they not only want to drive a hybrid car, more importantly they want to be seen to be driving a hybrid car...a real "look at me and how environmentally friendly I am and you are not" type smugness.

[music189]

Originally Posted by burnz

may as well put this in here..
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/tra...-1226434051354

1886 kms in 24 hours works out at 78.58 kmh for every hour driving from Port melbourne to Geelong and back including changing batteries and drivers.

Anyone who travels that road would think thats impossible

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by KIWI-1

"
Will I ever have to replace the hybrid battery?

Almost certainly not. Our hybrid batteries are designed to last the typical life of your vehicle.

We're so convinced with the outstanding reliability track-record and longevity of our hybrid batteries that we've recently extended our battery warranty period to 8 years or 160,000km (whichever occurs first).

There are many corporate and taxi fleets operating hybrid vehicles around Australia. For these businesses reliability is essential as these their vehicles travel tens of thousands of kilometres per year.
"

See http://www.toyota.com.au/hybrid-syne.../ask-an-expert.

Toyota consider 10 years to be the life of a vehicle. Typically not the case in Australia. Our car fleet is pretty old by world standards.

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Toyota consider 10 years to be the life of a vehicle. Typically not the case in Australia. Our car fleet is pretty old by world standards.

Some BA Falcon parts are already obsolete and that only finished in 2005.

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by SCUD

So then to suggest that the Holden Volt will sell for $59,990? Man there is a lot of vehicles out there you can buy for that money. Is this really a justifiable cost for the technology? I had a look on carsales to find a Lexus CT200h 2012 no km's at $43,888 drive away.

Sure it might have technology, but is it going to net you a far better result whilst still having a domestic rather than luxury badge?

As for the thread title, this is just one of those situations I look forward to seeing the Holden faithful by it simply because it's a Holden badge.

According to Jay Leno, his Volt has done about 36000+ miles, and he's only used 12 gallons of fuel in that time. That's pootling around L.A.

So it's realistic to assume that drivers of this car in cities doing100-200km's a day, will rarely ever see a petrol station again.

The Volt isn't selling well because it's pricey, but it is still a staggering vehicle. Not that staggering when you think about it. But for a somewhat to some affordable car, not like some 150k Fisker. This car is quite an achievement. And I utterly detest most GM products.

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by KIWI-1

Ask him where Chevrolet Commodores are made!

Also happens in reverse.
I worked with a guy who bought a secondhand Daewoo. It must be a good car because Holden sell Daewoos with Holden badges on them.

We call Americans ignorant and stupid, but we are no better.

[aussie muscle]

Originally Posted by EDManual

Its interesting the engine is being used as a generator and not connected to wheels.

Except the Volt doesn't do that. the electric motors only help the petrol engine to accelerate. (i too thought they said they were going to do a true plug-in ev, but they ended up making it similar to the prius).

Originally Posted by EDManual

Like in lots of modern ships engines make power for an electric engine that turns the props.

Diesel/Electric trains work the same way, electric motors drive the wheels and the diesel engine is only a generator.

[302 XC]

Originally Posted by KIWI-1

"
Will I ever have to replace the hybrid battery?

Almost certainly not. Our hybrid batteries are designed to last the typical life of your vehicle.

We're so convinced with the outstanding reliability track-record and longevity of our hybrid batteries that we've recently extended our battery warranty period to 8 years or 160,000km (whichever occurs first).

There are many corporate and taxi fleets operating hybrid vehicles around Australia. For these businesses reliability is essential as these their vehicles travel tens of thousands of kilometres per year.
"

See http://www.toyota.com.au/hybrid-syne.../ask-an-expert.

I dont care for any sales rubbish ,most cars within 10 years of new you cant near give away,look at AU/BAs for example great reliable engines with a proven record yet complete cars worth nothin, electric cars will be worse on the 10 year cycle
Many ford taxis have near a million Ks and there still goin and worth nothin, electric cars at 10 years old, will be of to sims

[MAD]

Originally Posted by aussie muscle

Except the Volt doesn't do that. the electric motors only help the petrol engine to accelerate. (i too thought they said they were going to do a true plug-in ev, but they ended up making it similar to the prius).

The Volt is definitely a range extended, plug-in EV. The engine has no connection to the wheels other than through the batteries.

[PepeLePew]

I can imagine this car being a run away success at 40K. Seems to be the price tag may be more about inhibiting sales than making them, keeping demand to a workable level...unless their production cost on the car is really that high?

[Terror_Tree]

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

We call Americans ignorant and stupid, but we are no better.

I knew this idiot who thought that the F1 team called HRT was part of the Holden Racing Team!!!

These people are the reason holden can slap a holden badge on anything and it will sell. I am sure "Wheels" mag will go ga ga over the new "Holden" Volt.

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by aussie muscle

Except the Volt doesn't do that. the electric motors only help the petrol engine to accelerate. (i too thought they said they were going to do a true plug-in ev, but they ended up making it similar to the prius).

The latest incarnation of the Prius can run electric only, petrol only or both. It is designed with enough grunt to cruise on electric only. The petrol engine is used to provide additional power (as in kW) when required with a secondary function of recharging the battery. Batteries are also charged during braking.

i.e. The reverse of how you are saying the Volt operates, which is how the first Prius operated.

[KIWI-1]

Interesting article on the many hybrids about to be released just arrived in the junk mail.

First few paragraphs of the article follow:

To date only two mainstream makes, Toyota and Honda, have been pushing affordable hybrid technology in a major way. The prestige end fares little better, with only Porsche and Lexus serving up hybrids.

Things are set to change, however, with a wave of new hybrids from Infiniti, BMW, Mitsubishi, Peugeot, Citroen and Holden all due Down Under in the next 18 months. Indeed, Australia is set to witness a veritable explosion in the number of hybrids offered for sale – right across the new car size and segment spectrum.

Even Ferrari, a brand that symbolises the very essence of high octane, high performance motoring, is dabbling in the hybrid space with the 599 HY-KERS and its Enzo successor. But if you’re gagging to sample the Italian stallion’s green credentials, it’s probably wise to not hold your breath, according to Edward Rowe, spokesman for Ferrari’s Australian importer, Ateco.

http://www.carsales.com.au/news/2012...d-vigour-31431

[TMC]

If you want the Holden faithful to buy it, you need to put a 253 V8 in it as the generator motor. That will put out about 63kW and is almost a match for the 1.4L 4cyl in there now.

[2011G6E]

They seem to think that once a car is sold by it's first owner, that is the end of it...it magically vanishes off the face of the Earth.

The "life span" of the car is assumed to be 8 to 10 years according to that item about battery pack life. I suppose it won't be a problem for the first owner...but try unloading it to the second owner who is going to look at it and wonder if he is the poor schmuck who is going to be stuck with replacing the battery pack...it would have to affect second hand prices very badly.