VFACTS January 2013

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Around 75% of Falcon (and Commodore) sales used to be to fleets, the bulk of those sales are gone, not coming back.

So what is the percentage now? I bet my left nut it is still around the 75% market. Just has much as fleets are gone, so too have private sales.

[ShootsWithFilm]

I know I have said it before (maybe not here, can't remember), but I have the distinct feeling that internationally, Ford want the Falcon gone - I can't think of any other logical reason for the complete and utter apathy towards this model. And the more I think about it, the more it makes sense - "We have decided to discontinue the Falcon due to poor sales" sounds a lot easier to swallow then "We have decided to discontinue the Falcon due to our corporate 'One Ford' strategy".

Anyhow, back to the VFACTS stats - where does the Territory fit into this? How many units sold in January (or is that included in the Falcon stats?).

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

So what is the percentage now? I bet my left nut it is still around the 75% market. Just has much as fleets are gone, so too have private sales.

What you are seeing now is the core of private buyers and a just few fleet buyers left,
January is particularly quiet because not only are there no Fleet purchases but very few
private buyers buy at this time unless they want a bargain on 2012 plates, more come
back in February and beyond as 2013 build plates are delivered to dealerships..

Most sales today are XR6 to private buyers, XR6T and G6ET are approaching FPV levels.

There was a member here who had access to fleet percentage data, I think that would make compelling reading..

Originally Posted by ShootsWithFilm

I know I have said it before (maybe not here, can't remember), but I have the distinct feeling that internationally, Ford want the Falcon gone - I can't think of any other logical reason for the complete and utter apathy towards this model. And the more I think about it, the more it makes sense - "We have decided to discontinue the Falcon due to poor sales" sounds a lot easier to swallow then "We have decided to discontinue the Falcon due to our corporate 'One Ford' strategy".

Think about it,
Ford Australia is right under the microscope, if anyone wanted to kill
Falcon/Territory then they wouldn't be mucking around like this.
The US is supporting Falcon and territory for as long as people want them...

Anyhow, back to the VFACTS stats - where does the Territory fit into this? How many units sold in January (or is that included in the Falcon stats?).

Probably available on Monday.

[DanielXR8]

With the VF Commodore due to suck what remaining oxygen and interest there is in the large car segment this year, I'm struggling to see how Ford can keep the current FG going for another year.

I think they are between a rock and a hard place.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by DanielXR8

With the VF Commodore due to suck what remaining oxygen and interest there is in the large car segment this year, I'm struggling to see how Ford can keep the current FG going for another year.

I think they are between a rock and a hard place.

I think the spotlight to perform is squarely on VF Commodore, Holden has huge hopes for the car.

Ford must show the 2014 car this year if it wants anyone to take Falcon seriously

[Jason[98.EL]]

Originally Posted by jpd80

I think the spotlight to perform is squarely on VF Commodore, Holden has huge hopes for the car.

Ford must show the 2014 car this year if it wants anyone to take Falcon seriously

agreed

I personally think holden are in trouble with the vf unlike ford that will have a fresh crack at it as holden have allowed to many teaser pics out as well as stating that the commy wont be built here after xxxx date where ford have not let anything out of the bag as yet

just my thoughts on it

Jason

[greenfoam]

I don't know if you guys agree with my thinking but I used to be a big fan of large cars, the biggest of fans.

Currently driving a Fiesta and I couldn't possibly imagine ever buying a large car again or ever needing one for any purpose. It's just so much better at everything for a daily car, the actual space inside isn't that much different to a FG, half the FG is centre console.. It's only really smaller on the outside and being able to reverse out of my yard at triple normal speed without hitting the gate saves me time lol.

I already have a well preserved VH SLE in my shed for future use as a classic weekend / club car and given no other use for a big sedan I just can't see how they are selling even one per month?.

There's still thousands and zillions of old large cars around in Australia, more than enough for anyone that has room to store one or has any interest in keeping a car just for weekend cruises.

The writing was on the wall years and years ago and I really can't understand how such big companies kept their heads in the sand and kept on producing them speced for daily use for as long as they did/have. I can see a small but profitable market for only two versions of a Falcon or Commodore. One being a totally stripped down V8 manual, I wouldn't even bother with body deadner, carpet or a radio, or if you were, very basic stuff only. The market for that car don't care about such things. This is your Australianised version of the 86. Just make it as cheap,fast and fun as possible. It then becomes a big weekend car for those that don't want to bother with parts/building or maintaining a classic. Most people with XR6T's or XR8's don't use them as a daily anyway so why bother with a compromise.

The other being a very well equipped luxury version with a very good high powered and efficient diesel. Those are the only two options I would be bothering with in the current market. Everything else needs to go in the big bin of redundancy.

If not then better to just pull the plug now and get on with designing good small hatches.

[ShootsWithFilm]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Think about it,
Ford Australia is right under the microscope, if anyone wanted to kill
Falcon/Territory then they wouldn't be mucking around like this.
The US is supporting Falcon and territory for as long as people want them...

EXACTLY and when people don't WANT them, they will pull them! And when they are gone, it will be the buying publics fault, not Fords...

[bobthebilda]

Holden are obviously maintaining manning levels for local production with the hope that VF gives sales numbers a decent boost, but commy numbers are down 20% from last January and cruze numbers are down 33% from same time last year (and local cruze numbers will now be eaten away by the imported cruze wagon). There's no way the cruze and its SUV derivative will be enough to maintain a plant post Commodore 2016.

[mik]

Originally Posted by greenfoam

I don't know if you guys agree with my thinking but I used to be a big fan of large cars, the biggest of fans.

Currently driving a Fiesta and I couldn't possibly imagine ever buying a large car again or ever needing one for any purpose. It's just so much better at everything for a daily car, the actual space inside isn't that much different to a FG, half the FG is centre console.. It's only really smaller on the outside and being able to reverse out of my yard at triple normal speed without hitting the gate saves me time lol.

I already have a well preserved VH SLE in my shed for future use as a classic weekend / club car and given no other use for a big sedan I just can't see how they are selling even one per month?.

There's still thousands and zillions of old large cars around in Australia, more than enough for anyone that has room to store one or has any interest in keeping a car just for weekend cruises.

The writing was on the wall years and years ago and I really can't understand how such big companies kept their heads in the sand and kept on producing them speced for daily use for as long as they did/have. I can see a small but profitable market for only two versions of a Falcon or Commodore. One being a totally stripped down V8 manual, I wouldn't even bother with body deadner, carpet or a radio, or if you were, very basic stuff only. The market for that car don't care about such things. This is your Australianised version of the 86. Just make it as cheap,fast and fun as possible. It then becomes a big weekend car for those that don't want to bother with parts/building or maintaining a classic. Most people with XR6T's or XR8's don't use them as a daily anyway so why bother with a compromise.

The other being a very well equipped luxury version with a very good high powered and efficient diesel. Those are the only two options I would be bothering with in the current market. Everything else needs to go in the big bin of redundancy.

If not then better to just pull the plug now and get on with designing good small hatches.

mate, the fiesta is whether you think it has a lot of room or not , it is still a little car, you won`t see too many fiesta taxi`s, put 4 or 5 people in your fiesta and some luggage see how it performs, oh yeah......don`t forget to put a trailer/caravan/or boat on the back,
bigger cars are more versatile, you can in fact have your cake and eat it too, want economy and power,

i give you eco lpi
i give you eco boost
i give you territory diesel
want medium economy and still good power with all of the versatility add the plain petrol version to the above
want more power options unit options/trim levels and the same versatility
look higher in the range,
no doubt the little fiesta is a good little car, but it is still a little car that is less versatile than a big family car for which some of us want and need.

[Chopped]

If our dollar drops (which it has to do eventually) then the imports will become more expensive and give the local models an edge.

740 Falcons is a shocking result for the decent vehicle that it is.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by jpd80

What you are seeing now is the core of private buyers and a just few fleet buyers left,
January is particularly quiet because not only are there no Fleet purchases but very few
private buyers buy at this time unless they want a bargain on 2012 plates, more come
back in February and beyond as 2013 build plates are delivered to dealerships..

Most sales today are XR6 to private buyers, XR6T and G6ET are approaching FPV levels.

There was a member here who had access to fleet percentage data, I think that would make compelling reading..

Yes I remember him & that is why I commented. The last time he showed us that info (probably 12-18 months ago) it showed Falcon with approx 80% + (from memory) of fleets buyers. This is why I find it had to believe this has changed much sense then. It would equate to a pretty big turn around.

[ShootsWithFilm]

Originally Posted by Chopped

If our dollar drops (which it has to do eventually) then the imports will become more expensive and give the local models an edge.

740 Falcons is a shocking result for the decent vehicle that it is.

That would certainly help.

What would also help is if in fact, that supposed oil reserve in the outback of SA actually exists - if we were spending 75c a litre on petrol, owning a big family car would not be an issue.

But, if I what I have been told is right, the chances of that oil reserve actually existing is slim...

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

Yes I remember him & that is why I commented. The last time he showed us that info (probably 12-18 months ago) it showed Falcon with approx 80% + (from memory) of fleets buyers. This is why I find it had to believe this has changed much sense then. It would equate to a pretty big turn around.

And there has been a huge turnaround in fleet buying, Falcon is now basically mud with fleets, EcolPI is not selling like planned, mostly utes.
USer chooser fleet buyers have abandoned novated leases, Falcon is too expensive because of FBT changes.
All FBT is now set at 20% of costs regardless of how many kilometres are travelled, people now buy cheaper cars
because the FBT is worked on 20% of the new car price and that stays for the first four years.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by greenfoam

I don't know if you guys agree with my thinking but I used to be a big fan of large cars, the biggest of fans.

Currently driving a Fiesta and I couldn't possibly imagine ever buying a large car again or ever needing one for any purpose. It's just so much better at everything for a daily car, the actual space inside isn't that much different to a FG, half the FG is centre console.. It's only really smaller on the outside and being able to reverse out of my yard at triple normal speed without hitting the gate saves me time lol.

I already have a well preserved VH SLE in my shed for future use as a classic weekend / club car and given no other use for a big sedan I just can't see how they are selling even one per month?.

There's still thousands and zillions of old large cars around in Australia, more than enough for anyone that has room to store one or has any interest in keeping a car just for weekend cruises.

The writing was on the wall years and years ago and I really can't understand how such big companies kept their heads in the sand and kept on producing them speced for daily use for as long as they did/have. I can see a small but profitable market for only two versions of a Falcon or Commodore. One being a totally stripped down V8 manual, I wouldn't even bother with body deadner, carpet or a radio, or if you were, very basic stuff only. The market for that car don't care about such things. This is your Australianised version of the 86. Just make it as cheap,fast and fun as possible. It then becomes a big weekend car for those that don't want to bother with parts/building or maintaining a classic. Most people with XR6T's or XR8's don't use them as a daily anyway so why bother with a compromise.

The other being a very well equipped luxury version with a very good high powered and efficient diesel. Those are the only two options I would be bothering with in the current market. Everything else needs to go in the big bin of redundancy.

If not then better to just pull the plug now and get on with designing good small hatches.

Good post greenfoam, your's is an example of how the market is changing for large cars,
buyers now have so much choice and vehicles are practically tailor made for buyers these days..

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by jpd80

And there has been a huge turnaround in fleet buying, Falcon is now basically mud with fleets, EcolPI is not selling like planned, mostly utes.
USer chooser fleet buyers have abandoned novated leases, Falcon is too expensive because of FBT changes.
All FBT is now set at 20% of costs regardless of how many kilometres are travelled, people now buy cheaper cars
because the FBT is worked on 20% of the new car price and that stays for the first four years.

It is not the fleet turn around I'm questioning, it is the private buyer turn around I'm questioning. A few years back Falcon was selling 30K per year, but only 20% of them where private buyers. That is only 6,000 private buyers per year. If Falcon maintained this level of private buyers (which in itself is very unlikely), based on total 2012 Falcon sales that would still only be 42% sold to private buyers. So to get private buyers to a percentage level where fleets are now "small" players, this would see private sale numbers (in units) close to doubled in the last 2 years. Unless you show me data, I just can't see that as being real..

[b0son]

Originally Posted by jpd80

I think the spotlight to perform is squarely on VF Commodore, Holden has huge hopes for the car.

And if it doesn't perform, will Ford see it as an opportunity for Falcon, or as the final nail in the large car coffin?

[barra240t]

Originally Posted by DASH GT

Not when you can go down to Toyota and get a Camry today....

They need to build more Ecoboost... Its just ******** that they will not build stock for the floor, i had a friend wanting a G6E Ecoboost a few months ago and there was like 2 of them in QLD....

If you don't have the stock on the shelf people will not buy, especially in a market as competitive as the large sedans.

Do you really think dealers want to order XT's and G6/E for retail stock? As I've said all along let us order ecoboost in XR and you will start to see more around.

[XrRabbit]

Mazda actually is a really good car but just so blah and boring they are starting to get better and more fun

[naddis01]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

Yes I remember him & that is why I commented. The last time he showed us that info (probably 12-18 months ago) it showed Falcon with approx 80% + (from memory) of fleets buyers. This is why I find it had to believe this has changed much sense then. It would equate to a pretty big turn around.

I posted those figures back I think in Aug or Oct of 2011. I will see if I can get some current figures.

[irish2]

Originally Posted by greenfoam

I don't know if you guys agree with my thinking but I used to be a big fan of large cars, the biggest of fans.

Currently driving a Fiesta and I couldn't possibly imagine ever buying a large car again or ever needing one for any purpose. It's just so much better at everything for a daily car, the actual space inside isn't that much different to a FG, half the FG is centre console.. It's only really smaller on the outside and being able to reverse out of my yard at triple normal speed without hitting the gate saves me time lol.

I already have a well preserved VH SLE in my shed for future use as a classic weekend / club car and given no other use for a big sedan I just can't see how they are selling even one per month?.

There's still thousands and zillions of old large cars around in Australia, more than enough for anyone that has room to store one or has any interest in keeping a car just for weekend cruises.

The writing was on the wall years and years ago and I really can't understand how such big companies kept their heads in the sand and kept on producing them speced for daily use for as long as they did/have. I can see a small but profitable market for only two versions of a Falcon or Commodore. One being a totally stripped down V8 manual, I wouldn't even bother with body deadner, carpet or a radio, or if you were, very basic stuff only. The market for that car don't care about such things. This is your Australianised version of the 86. Just make it as cheap,fast and fun as possible. It then becomes a big weekend car for those that don't want to bother with parts/building or maintaining a classic. Most people with XR6T's or XR8's don't use them as a daily anyway so why bother with a compromise.

The other being a very well equipped luxury version with a very good high powered and efficient diesel. Those are the only two options I would be bothering with in the current market. Everything else needs to go in the big bin of redundancy.

If not then better to just pull the plug now and get on with designing good small hatches.

Having recently had a lot of friends who have a baby on the way, I can tell you there are many short comings with smaller cars. Two of my friends partners owned Mazda 2's, and another a Fiesta. They could not find car seats for new born babies, that actually fit into the rear of their car at all.

Sadly they upgraded to soft roaders and now complain about the boaty ride compared to their small cars.

[naddis01]

Originally Posted by naddis01

I posted those figures back I think in Aug or Oct of 2011. I will see if I can get some current figures.

It was infact the May 2010 Vfact thread. See below...

Originally Posted by naddis01

I posted some of these in another thread, but I thought I would put them in this one as well as it is a more appropriate thread to discuss them.

These are Year-To-Date May 2010 figures....

Ford Falcon - 13,349

Private - 2,274
Business (small fleet) - 4,133
Business (large fleet) - 1,737
Rental - 2,744
Government - 1,528
Not For Profit Organisation - 414
Other - 519

Holden Commodore - 18,428

Private - 4,972
Business (small fleet) - 6,114
Business (large fleet) - 1,397
Rental - 1,451
Government - 3,005
Not For Profit Organisation - 185
Other - 1,304

Toyota Camry - 6,825

Private - 1,969
Business (small fleet) - 794
Business (large fleet) - 722
Rental - 664
Government - 1,424
Not For Profit Organisation - 868
Other - 384

Toyota Camry Hybrid - 2,273 (Over and above regular Camry figures and from the Feb launch)

Private - 400
Business (small fleet) - 485
Business (large fleet) - 209
Rental - 239
Government - 619
Not For Profit Organisation - 105
Other - 216

Toyota Hilux - 3,665

Private - 680
Business (small fleet) - 1,587
Business (large fleet) - 804
Rental - 189
Government - 335
Other - 70


The biggest things I see in those figures is that Commodore has more private sales in both outright and percentage terms. The other thing to note that the supposed fleet queen Camry (regular and hybrid) sells more privately in both outright numbers and percentage terms compared to Falcon. So much for the Falcon being the private buyers choice.

[Joe5619]

It would be interesting to see how those figure have changed in the last 2.5 years..

[XrRabbit]

I'm sure a lot has changed it will be interesting. See if the falcon has caught up to the commodore

[csv8]

Ford should put the Taurus V6 Ecoboost engine as in the SHO ..in the XR6 !!!!

[mik]

Originally Posted by csv8

Ford should put the Taurus V6 Ecoboost engine as in the SHO ..in the XR6 !!!!

why???

[burnz]

Originally Posted by greenfoam

I can see a small but profitable market for only two versions of a Falcon or Commodore. One being a totally stripped down V8 manual, I wouldn't even bother with body deadner, carpet or a radio, or if you were, very basic stuff only
.

i would like to buy a bare knuckle fist fighter, V8 6SP, light as possable.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by csv8

Ford should put the Taurus V6 Ecoboost engine as in the SHO ..in the XR6 !!!!

Yes, why exactly? Just because it is in some yank car that you can't stop fawing about? I and many others couldn't give a stuff about the Toreass. FYI the 3.5 Ecoboost was a non starter for the Falcon when the V6 switcheroo was to be made because of 1) packaging problems 2) availability and 3) cost.

Also, I remember those fleet sales figures, and I remember saying that it blew Marin Burela's fairy tales about rich model mix sales to private buyers right out of the water. I too would be curious to see if it has changed at all.

One final thing, for how long was Broady closed over January?

[Gobes32]

They returned on the 14th, heard on the grapevine that ecoboost is a eight week wait and ecolpi is a wait-and-see due to a hose being unavailable due to supplier problems. What a joke...........

[mik]

pretty sad another replacement hose could`nt be sourced from elsewhere.