How does the welfare system work

[car10002]

By time she covered her bills medication and smokes all she was left was $30 week to feed herself and she was seen gambling too and she complained to today tonight and then years ago there was a story about a Oldman who could only afford tins of dog food then aca asked him to prove it then he did and gagged

[Uncle Niceguy]

The issue with welfare recipients, is that some of them, are irresponsible with the money.
I was on DSP for near on 5 years and in that time I physically couldn't work. Now in qld the difference between the dole and dsp is huge, cause when on dsp car rego, utilities are half price. And public transport almost half price. In relative terms if you can't save money on dsp there is a budget issue, whereas on the dole up here you get none of them, and you have to meet certain requirements before getting your cheque.

Sent from my D6653 using Tapatalk

[CoupeKing]

Originally Posted by car10002

there was a story about a Oldman who could only afford tins of dog food then aca asked him to prove it then he did and gagged

Someone email him some soup recipes. Be cheaper and easier on his guts than Pal.

[superyob]

Originally Posted by car10002

...years ago there was a story about a Oldman who could only afford tins of dog food then aca asked him to prove it then he did and gagged

Yeah, I saw that story. I think that guy is dead now. Hit by a car when he was in the middle of the road licking his dique...

[Simple6]

Originally Posted by car10002

You hear of it on current affair shows a lot and you wonder sometimes

And when it's enough for people to live on there should be enough to allow room incase people happen to use a bit more power or water than that thought so they can pay it

And people should get enough to allow for going a bit over utilities than first thought and old age and dsp that can't work should get close to quality of living than workers if not exact seen stories of old ladys that can't afford to run heater or aircon

Are you going to pay more tax to give away to other people?

Currently the average amount paid in tax per person is nearly $19,000 each. How much more do you want each of us to lose from our earnings to pay for these daily Hungry Jacks meals? Or the $40 packet of cigarettes?

[mcflux]

Originally Posted by Simple6

Are you going to pay more tax to give away to other people?

Currently the average amount paid in tax per person is nearly $19,000 each. How much more do you want each of us to lose from our earnings to pay for these daily Hungry Jacks meals? Or the $40 packet of cigarettes?

Your gross generalisation and contempt for those on welfare is about as disgusting as a Hungry Jacks meal & a $40 packet of cigarettes.

[Grunter]

Originally Posted by Ghia5L

Your gross generalisation and contempt for those on welfare is about as disgusting as a Hungry Jacks meal & a $40 packet of cigarettes.

To be fair, their onion rings are ok. ;)

My thoughts are that welfare exists for a reason. I'm sure the majority are not taking advantage of the system, but if some people are, then it's the weak as sauce government bending to the loudest minority voices and not making it work for those whose circumstance gives them no choice but to be on welfare.

I've got no issue in paying taxes to support, because the way I look at it, given different circumstance and choices I could have made throughout the years, I may have found myself and family needing support.

You will always get the people that take advantage (human nature to an extent), but again that advantage for those that do, only exists because the checks and balances in place are not enough, or to weak to weed those types out. I'd rather we ***** and moan about the few, than disadvantage the many.

All IMO.

[Simple6]

Originally Posted by Ghia5L

Your gross generalisation and contempt for those on welfare is about as disgusting as a Hungry Jacks meal & a $40 packet of cigarettes.

I've got no issue with people who need to be on welfare - it's an essential service. It's great knowing that if you fall on tough times, there's a safety net.

However, I do have an issue when people say we need to pay more to welfare recipients because where are we supposed to come up with the money? We run a yearly budget deficit, fall further into debt year on year - if Australia was a business, the liquidators would have been in years ago.

It's such a hard topic though and I don't know the solution, so I don't envy those running the show that's for sure...

[Mowdit]

CAN OF WORMS

Originally Posted by car10002

Hi

Just intrested to know how the welfare system works

Due to individuals and company's paying tax, or it wouldn't

Very tough subject matter by the way, verging on political........

I will bring it up, "STRUGGLE STREET", not the best example, but :
Funny how they always had a cigarette and energy drink/take away coffee
Or money for drugs, cars, motor bikes and such

It was designed to "help" a person/family until they got back on their feet, if you met the criteria, not to SUPPORT, it was an entitlement, now it is seen as a right, and no one dares to take away you rights !!!

I applied once when made redundant, you have hols, use those, you have shares, sell those, savings, GONE, your mortgage your problem
Yet my off sider who used to take a holiday every year and could be found at the pub most nights was straight on the "benefit" and got RENT ASSISTANCE !!!! WTF !!!!!!

NO individual I have ever met who was on the dole or single parents or couples (under 50yo) didn't have a choice, some managed and went on to build a life, others ended up in government housing (a few have taken pride in attending with their kid when their grandkid finally got to sign up )

I am all for supporting those enduring hard times
Am even more for supporting pensioners who have had a go in this life.

Look at Canada's system

[Adamz Ghia]

Our welfare system is a joke if you're trying to have a go.

My mum was beaten senseless by her ex husband and as such she struggled for a few years and being left with no family and kids to raise never did any further education.

When I came along she had a job and her wage was topped up by a single parent payment. This allowed her to feed me well, take me out on a weekend, buy everything I needed for school, my sister and brother then came along and again, we never went without, mum did but us kids had everything we could want.

Then they changed the rules and for every dollar over an amount mum earned she would lose part of her payment. The more she worked the less money she got. It got to the stage where she was working 45 hours a week and earning less than what she was working 30 hours a week. What the hell is the point?? By all means if you're earning enough to support yourself then you don't need welfare but taking away a third of a persons income in one hit is simply wrong.

In the end we didn't do much of a Christmas, Easter, birthdays were low key, I had to pay for my own schooling out of my own money I earned from doing odd jobs for neighbours, so did my sister and brother. Basically everything I needed from age 14 onwards I had to provide for myself as mum simply couldn't work anymore than she was no she had the two younger ones to look after.

The system actively encouraged mum not to work. and then we have these scumbags that collect Centrelink as if it's owed to them and despite all the noise the government makes nothing ever happens to them.

I don't profess to know the solution for a perfect system but the one we have now, having lived it, is wrong, especially for parents, single or not. Kids should never miss out on anything as their parents life isn't their fault. Perhaps a card system is the way to go, or half cash half card. The idea of suspending welfare payments was unbelievably brain dead. How is one meant to support themselves?

The argument that it's not your job to support someone else's kids is silly as well. They may not be yours but they need to be given every opportunity to break the welfare cycle and make something of themselves. Yes it's the job of their parents but again it is not the kids fault. If we leave them to rot with their parents the cycle continues and the next generation will have the same problems as us.

Sorry for the rant and hope I got my point across. Again, I don't know the solution but welfare needs to at least allow people to live with dignity.

[mcflux]

Originally Posted by Simple6

I've got no issue with people who need to be on welfare - it's an essential service. It's great knowing that if you fall on tough times, there's a safety net.

However, I do have an issue when people say we need to pay more to welfare recipients because where are we supposed to come up with the money? We run a yearly budget deficit, fall further into debt year on year - if Australia was a business, the liquidators would have been in years ago.

It's such a hard topic though and I don't know the solution, so I don't envy those running the show that's for sure...

Sorry mate, I came out swinging at you for no particular reason other than it was the most recent comment on welfare recipients, and I took it out of proportion...

For where the money can come from:

The corporate tax rate is a murky area. Cutting it could mean [coalition]Jobs and Growth[/coalition] with both of these adding to the Govt's coffers (if the corporations benefiting from this do in fact increase available jobs due to their tax-cut-assisted growth), otherwise there'll be less corporate tax payments AND no change to the public taxpayer's payments. Keeping it/increasing it could see further job cuts or further shiftings of profits off-shore, thus reducing to the Govt's coffers, or the corporations could find a way to absorb this and thus increase to the Govt's coffers.

Proposed 2% cut to the >$180k tax bracket and cuts to the >$80k tax bracket will only reward the rich. Surely the reverse should occur, increasing the ceilings for the lower tax brackets but cutting it back based on overall earnings above the lower tax brackets.

And Grunter - for the record I don't mind the odd binge on Hungry Jacks, although I do feel disgusting afterwards The durries I can live without, each to their own there

[redxm]

smokin' drinkin' gambling' is a working man's privelige



...just sayin....

[Spudz27]

I have been on a support pension on and off. I was on DSP and have had aus study. When on DSP I got no more than $10 as my partners $1000pf was supposed to support the whole family. She got ftb for the kids but trying to support 2 adults and 2 kids on $1500 when your rent is $380pw was hard but we got by. When her and I split up for a few months I got $680dsp, so I had no choice but to live with my fiance whilst we had a rough patch during our 13yrs together (many more to come) there was absolutely no housing and as such not a chance in hell I could have survived on dsp. The cheapest rent I could find would have used 72% of my payment.

Thankfully DSP was temporary and I work full time again, but bugger me if it were not for my fiance I woulda been living in my car. I do beleive people on DSP and pensioners deserve more. I think the FTB should not go up beyond the 3rd child, way too many people popping out kids to boost their income rather than work, then those kids are neglected as they were just a revenue source.

I don't think we should have separate payments for indigenous people and the dole and austudy are fine as they are. They are small payments to assist whilst you presumably look for work or study to get work.

[mcflux]

The cheapest rent I could find would have used 72% of my payment.

So your DSP & rent assistance, 72% of it, goes to someone in a high tax bracket who likely negatively gears their investment property and gets the tax benefit from this (plus sits on it whilst it accumulates value).

Who's really taking from the govt here?

[car10002]

Here's a idea don't give pollies anymore and take their benefits and make them live normal and there's more for welfare hospitals schools and other stuff

[car10002]

but welfare needs to at least allow people to live with dignity.

Good idea

[b0son]

Originally Posted by Ghia5L

Who's really taking from the govt here?

And the alternative? Public housing which will cost us far more.

[lgpking22]

I enjoy these threads is always interesting to hear peoples thoughts on stuff they have no idea about.

[Adamz Ghia]

Originally Posted by lgpking22

I enjoy these threads is always interesting to hear peoples thoughts on stuff they have no idea about.

And you do?

Wonderful contribution, well done. It's people like you that gets these threads locked.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by Ghia5L

Proposed 2% cut to the >$180k tax bracket and cuts to the >$80k tax bracket will only reward the rich. Surely the reverse should occur, increasing the ceilings for the lower tax brackets but cutting it back based on overall earnings above the lower tax brackets.

I used to think the opposite...

I downloaded a whole bunch of ABS statistics ... ended up comparing tax versus income quintile versus deductions, versus personal wealth, etc. The top quintile is totally out of whack with the bottom four when it comes to personal wealth versus tax burden.

When you see it graphed out like that, its clear, it takes money to make money. The top income earners are far better positioned to grow their disposable income, and are rewarded more by the tax system for doing so.

This is just wrong. The tax burden (overall tax burden... income, GST, stamp duty, etc) should be proportionate to personal wealth. If the top quintile have 80% of the wealth, they should pay 80% of the tax. This isn't presently the case.

[Mowdit]

Ooppppsssss

[mcflux]

Originally Posted by b0son

And the alternative? Public housing which will cost us far more.

How so?

[lgpking22]

Originally Posted by Adamz Ghia

And you do?

Wonderful contribution, well done. It's people like you that gets these threads locked.

whats to contribute youll get the usual silver spooners who claim all poor people are poor coz its there fault youll get the usual negative gearers who will make some bull**** about it helping renters youll get people who have actually been poor speaking truth end thread

[b0son]

Originally Posted by Ghia5L

How so?

Investors pay for the house. With no investors providing housing, taxpayers will have to pay.

BUT, I can see your point. The tax perks far outweigh the tax burden, and the social cost of property speculation costs us far more in the long term.

I guess I'm biased though, having grown up in areas with a large proportion of public housing. Its treated like crap, with no real consequence to the deadbeat tenant. If the system had some real teeth, it might be more worthwhile. Perhaps have public housing over a wide range of areas, from out in the sticks to metro, and move the tenants from more/less desirable areas as punishment/reward for keeping the house in good repair, gaining and keeping employment. The stick doent seem to work, maybe we need a carrot...

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by car10002

Hi

Just intrested to know how the welfare system works because you hear of people doing it tough on it, one lady from adelaide is on it and was on today tonight and she said she could only afford one fast food meal from hungry jacks per day.

Poor diddums can only afford one Hungry Jacks meal a day. She needs to visit this new places called 'Coles' according to them you can feed a family of 4 a decent meal for under $10.
That's $2.50 a head. If you plan ahead you could theoretically give yourself 3 meals for less cost than a Hungry Jacks meal.

But if she is eating Hungry Jacks everyday in the near future money will be the least of her problems.

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Originally Posted by car10002

As for bills it means have some extra to allow if you used more power and water than you thought or normally use or if you need to go to doctor or dentist not foxtel or latest phone

And people that do right thing shouldn't have to suffer for ones that don't

And most means old people or disabled that can't work or worked a lot of years and can no longer work and how do people survive on dole if it's less

Simple if someone on welfare does not like it they can do what I been doing since the day I turned 15 and they can go to work and earn a living.

Anyone that says they can't find a job is full of **** and lazy. I never had a problem finding a job.

People on a pension or disability payment need to be looked after as they have either worked or they are not able to work, seems pretty simple to me.

again to reiterate, if anyone is unhappy with what they get, may be they can be up with me at 5:30am tomorrow and come and work with me for 10 hours, then they won't have time to whine and complain.

To be honest I think people get too much money on welfare already, as there are plenty that have never worked a day in their lives and seem to be getting drunk every week end

[Adamz Ghia]

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

Simple if someone on welfare does not like it they can do what I been doing since the day I turned 15 and they can go to work and earn a living.

Anyone that says they can't find a job is full of **** and lazy. I never had a problem finding a job.

People on a pension or disability payment need to be looked after as they have either worked or they are not able to work, seems pretty simple to me.

again to reiterate, if anyone is unhappy with what they get, may be they can be up with me at 5:30am tomorrow and come and work with me for 10 hours, then they won't have time to whine and complain.

To be honest I think people get too much money on welfare already, as there are plenty that have never worked a day in their lives and seem to be getting drunk every week end

Do you know what the welfare rate is?

[asagaai]

Originally Posted by Ben73

Poor diddums can only afford one Hungry Jacks meal a day. She needs to visit this new places called 'Coles' according to them you can feed a family of 4 for under $10

Truth is eating non processed, fresh fruit, vegetables, meat, fish, lot more expensive than crappy takeaway from Dominos/Macca etc etc as a general rule.

You can buy ingredients from Coles, and cook pretty fresh quite cheap, for instance Bolognese at about $45.00, with low fat mince x 2 packs, lots of canned tomatoes, some fresh tomatoes, Paul Newman, sauce, tub tomatoes paste, 2 chilis, red capsicum, mushrooms, fettucine spinach, enough for 11 meals, so fresh food at some $4.00 odd per meal.

BUT it takes DISCIPLINE and WORK.

Questions on welfare system:

• Why do I work so hard, often weekends, and get so stressed and faced being sued and not earn a LOT more than what I earn.
• Why do I often get bad debts for work done, which puts me under financial pressure.
• Why can I only access my superannuation preserved benefits at age 60?
• Why do I have to work to age 67 before retirement?
• Why is it I have been induced by govt through taxes to put money into Super, which just means when I cut out other necessary expenses and some luxuries like holidays, new utility items (leaking washing machine, oven door broken), and increase the Super pot, means I likely will not get old age pension and old age card?, and likely will have a lower standard of living than someone on old age pension?
• Why is it that since I finished Uni and commenced work at age 24, that I have had to work full time to my present age of half a century-non stop, other than 2 holidays to Thailand (one a delayed honeymoon) and one 3 week trip to Africa?
• Why is it that I receive no government family allowances etc etc despite supporting a family.
• Why is it that my daughter who is at Uni studying for a profession that will benefit this country, gets no Austudy, and this country still requires me to pay for everything on her behalf.
• My head hurts from the crappy week I have had, I will need to work this weekend, and all next week and on and on- I am sick of work, sick sick sick of it- why cannot I retire now, or at 57, or at the very least age 60 and have this country provide me welfare on the terms on bullet point below?
• Hell I have worked for some 27 years -why does not the government pay me an ongoing pension of 70% of my current salary for the rest of my life like they used to do to Federal members of parliament before 2004.

Questions, questions with no answers- think I will go out now and blow some of my hard earned money vapourising and frying fuel and melting rubber onto the bitumen because I can and at least that makes me feel good, much better than putting it into Super.

Last question- why do we all not just have a whoopee of a time on world trips and doing expensive fun crap, and if single and still willing and able- blow/booze, hookers and fast cars, ALL ON THE TABS OF OUR SUPER, and once blown the super, then ALL go on the old age pension.

Last last question- why is it we are leaving our children and next generation bigger debts and deficits-and should we really care

[drz250]

I was on the dole for a while when I was younger. I managed to save $1000 in about 3 months just because I didn't waste the money. Then I used that $1000 to buy some tools that made me a bit more employable.

It wasn't easy though. I get the sense a lot of people on centrelink are actually doing it tough and many aren't just bludgers like we want to think of them as being.

Friendlyjordies raises some good points here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddaSYKhXBdM

[The Yeti]

Originally Posted by Ghia5L

So your DSP & rent assistance, 72% of it, goes to someone in a high tax bracket who likely negatively gears their investment property and gets the tax benefit from this (plus sits on it whilst it accumulates value).

Who's really taking from the govt here?

Decided not to start a political argument