2018 SS (VXR) Commodore (slower than an Aurion...)

[LeadFoot81]

Originally Posted by Smoke Pursuit

Its 300 kgs lighter (supposedly) and has an extra 25 kw plus AWD system over the current model.

It wont be no slouch at any speed.

Yeah I agree mate, but apparently you need a V8 to overtake properly.

[Sioso]

Current SS VF2 has a tare weight of 1713kg, there is no way this new one is going to be around 1400kg.
Maybe 1550 at best, more like 1600 - 1650kg.
I think whoever wrote that article has plucked a figure out of the air....

[Windsor220]

Originally Posted by Sioso

Current SS VF2 has a tare weight of 1713kg, there is no way this new one is going to be around 1400kg.
Maybe 1550 at best, more like 1600 - 1650kg.
I think whoever wrote that article has plucked a figure out of the air....

Current Insignia weighs 1,470–1,610 kg according to Wiki.

[Maka]

Up to 1810 kg for the halo car.

cheers, Maka

[mike_nofx]

Originally Posted by Smoke Pursuit

Yes... You could also buy a VP SS 3.8 back in the day. Don't know how many they sold, probably none but no doubt they would have built a few.

Wonder how many people will badge it as an SS...

Originally Posted by Maka

Didnt a L67 version come out in VT SS guise? I think so, but i agree drop the SS nomenclature for something more appropriate.

cheers, Maka

I stand corrected. I had to google this! Seems very few VP SS V6's were made, less than 10 possibly. And the VT SS V6 was estimated at around 250.

Seems silly to me, they both should have been S models. It's like selling a Falcon I6T as an XR8.

[Maka]

Originally Posted by mike_nofx

I stand corrected. I had to google this! Seems very few VP SS V6's were made, less than 10 possibly. And the VT SS V6 was estimated at around 250.

Seems silly to me, they both should have been S models. It's like selling a Falcon I6T as an XR8.

Yep, back then (s1 SS era 1998) Wheels mag made reference actually about this when having both the L67 ss v6 & a s spac with the same motor except the SS was at least 10 grand more expensive in the same lineup lol...

Hedging of bets probably like the non vct & vct AU Xr6 in the one sales line up.

cheers, Maka

[OzJavelin]

Originally Posted by Chopped

Ok, maybe not slower but what a backwards step. Just show the Commodore name some respect and kill it off. This new thing doesn't deserve the nameplate.

http://www.caradvice.com.au/568754/2...rending&slot=0

Those pictures seem to be skewed to make it look wider/lower than I suspect it really is? From those pictures I don't mind the look of it, but in reality I suspect it will look more like a Mazda 6 ..

It's probably not a bad thing, just not a RWD V8. As mentioned by a lot of others it's possibly suffering from "GTO-itis"; i.e. it should have been named something other than Commodore and it would be accepted on it's own merits.

[Chopped]

It's basically like if Ford tried to bring in the new Mondeo and re-badge it as a Falcon. Sure the Mondeo is a nice car but it isn't a Falcon and the Insignia is NOT a Commodore imo.

At least Ford did the right thing and showed the Falcon nameplate some respect by putting it to rest. Shame on Holden.

[Vesper Martini]

This might be the encouragement Ford needs
If the insignia/commodore VRX has 235kW of power and 381Nm of torque

Bring on the Mondeo Sport AWD - 242kW of power, 475Nm of torque
http://www.themotorreport.com.au/628...lia-on-the-way

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by Maka

Yep, back then (s1 SS era 1998) Wheels mag made reference actually about this when having both the L67 ss v6 & a s spac with the same motor except the SS was at least 10 grand more expensive in the same lineup lol...

Hedging of bets probably like the non vct & vct AU Xr6 in the one sales line up.

cheers, Maka

It was around $6850 to go to the SS V6 over the S V6.

Sad part was the SS V6 was the same price as a SS V8.

Was probably one of the dumbest things Holden did, aside from the XU6 HSV thing...

[arronm]

Which ever way it goes it's going to be better than the new falcon.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

This might be the encouragement Ford needs
If the insignia/commodore VRX has 235kW of power and 381Nm of torque

Bring on the Mondeo Sport AWD - 242kW of power, 475Nm of torque
http://www.themotorreport.com.au/628...lia-on-the-way

Its not a Holden though so its ****e...

[SumoDog68]

Originally Posted by Chopped

It's basically like if Ford tried to bring in the new Mondeo and re-badge it as a Falcon. Sure the Mondeo is a nice car but it isn't a Falcon and the Insignia is NOT a Commodore imo.

At least Ford did the right thing and showed the Falcon nameplate some respect by putting it to rest. Shame on Holden.

GM switched Impala to front drive platform years ago - they even had front drive SS V6 Impala in their range. So the move is not unprecedented .
Ford current Explorer is also changed to front wheel drive .Camry was V6 Camry , then Aurion and now V6 Camry again . Pulsar went to Tiida to Pulsar again.
Companies manipulate nameplates as they see fit.

[turbo4]

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

This might be the encouragement Ford needs
If the insignia/commodore VRX has 235kW of power and 381Nm of torque

Bring on the Mondeo Sport AWD - 242kW of power, 475Nm of torque
http://www.themotorreport.com.au/628...lia-on-the-way

Worth pointing out that's with a smaller engine aswell.

[LeadFoot81]

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

This might be the encouragement Ford needs
If the insignia/commodore VRX has 235kW of power and 381Nm of torque

Bring on the Mondeo Sport AWD - 242kW of power, 475Nm of torque
http://www.themotorreport.com.au/628...lia-on-the-way

But badge it Fusion as per the US!

[Maka]

Originally Posted by Smoke Pursuit;5972298[B

]It was around $6850 to go to the SS V6 over the S V6. [/B]

Sad part was the SS V6 was the same price as a SS V8.

Was probably one of the dumbest things Holden did, aside from the XU6 HSV thing...

Thanks for clearing that up SP, got a bit mixed up with my memory (just got out of ccu yesterday) & the original article which ive just reread.

cheers, Maka

[Syndrome]

Do us all a favour and just kill the Holden brand.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by Syndrome

Do us all a favour and just kill the Holden brand.

Don't wish that upon people.

Holden still has a place in this country. Their cars aren't perfect but neither are Fords.

[Syndrome]

Originally Posted by Smoke Pursuit

Don't wish that upon people.

Holden still has a place in this country. Their cars aren't perfect but neither are Fords.

Why not? Holden loses it's relevance once local production ends. Just badge all GM cars as Chevrolet sold in Australia and also change the dealer names to Chevrolet.

[roddy1960]

Originally Posted by Chopped

It's basically like if Ford tried to bring in the new Mondeo and re-badge it as a Falcon. Sure the Mondeo is a nice car but it isn't a Falcon and the Insignia is NOT a Commodore imo.

At least Ford did the right thing and showed the Falcon nameplate some respect by putting it to rest. Shame on Holden.

G'day , Well said because it's totally true..I think rebadging the Insignia as Commodore is a monumental mistake and I expect most diehard Holden fans we'd all know would agree if you pushed them for an answer... Cheers Rod..

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by MethodX

This looks ok.
And should certainly have better interior plastics and a 2 star safety rating like the Deathtrapang.

I've how ppl keep banging that drum, not sick of if yet. Typical.

[98TLS]

Originally Posted by Chopped

It's basically like if Ford tried to bring in the new Mondeo and re-badge it as a Falcon. Sure the Mondeo is a nice car but it isn't a Falcon and the Insignia is NOT a Commodore imo.

At least Ford did the right thing and showed the Falcon nameplate some respect by putting it to rest. Shame on Holden.

Best not mention the 77 Falcon decals on a Mustang then.

[Maka]

Originally Posted by Syndrome

Why not? Holden loses it's relevance once local production ends. Just badge all GM cars as Chevrolet sold in Australia and also change the dealer names to Chevrolet.

Will that sell them more cars though, does the business case stack up? I dont know, just wondering lol.

cheers, Maka

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by LeadFoot81

We'll have to wait for the reviews to roll in and see what the 80-120 etc times are...but we'll have to agree to disagree on this one Adrenaline.

If the suggestion is that it'll perform anywhere near a current SS, then yes I guess we disagree. That's not to say it won't be decent in its own right. I think you misinterpreted my post as saying it won't be decent at all, I hope you weren't referring to me with that cheeky comment about needing a V8 to overtake ;) I copped a hiding around here years ago for suggesting the VF V6s were a potent package. It's refreshing to see the sands have shifted and people are being reasonable. I copped the same hiding when I claimed the VF chassis was the work of the gods, people eventually came around with that one too. Although I think it's probably a little far fetched to think that a V6 with less than 400nm of torque is going to be remotely satisfying to the crowd of folks with LS3 SS's, myself being one of them. I don't see it being anywhere near 300kg lighter and the AWD system is sapping grunt from the get go, my crystal ball says it'll be a reasonable improvement over the current SV6 but that's it. I'm open to being surprised. Not holding any breath though.

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by Syndrome

Why not? Holden loses it's relevance once local production ends. Just badge all GM cars as Chevrolet sold in Australia and also change the dealer names to Chevrolet.

They'll have more Korean and European offerings than US ones.
The "Holden" will be lost for sure and after a while it'll just be GM....
The insignia is a decent car with decent kit. It's primary objective is to compete with Mondeo in Europe....
Aussies won't take to it just like they haven't taken to Mondeo here either .
It's all Mazda , Toyota , Hyundai and Kia now.
Ford is fast becoming the "truck" company and GM will struggle to find an identity and any sort of relevance.....sad but true.

[LeadFoot81]

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

If the suggestion is that it'll perform anywhere near a current SS, then yes I guess we disagree. That's not to say it won't be decent in its own right. I think you misinterpreted my post as saying it won't be decent at all, I hope you weren't referring to me with that cheeky comment about needing a V8 to overtake ;) I copped a hiding around here years ago for suggesting the VF V6s were a potent package. It's refreshing to see the sands have shifted and people are being reasonable. I copped the same hiding when I claimed the VF chassis was the work of the gods, people eventually came around with that one too. Although I think it's probably a little far fetched to think that a V6 with less than 400nm of torque is going to be remotely satisfying to the crowd of folks with LS3 SS's, myself being one of them. I don't see it being anywhere near 300kg lighter and the AWD system is sapping grunt from the get go, my crystal ball says it'll be a reasonable improvement over the current SV6 but that's it. I'm open to being surprised. Not holding any breath though.

Nah I don't think, and never suggested that this car would perform like a VF SS. Holden don't mean for it to be a replacement for the SS (despite the click bait title of the article) All signs point to it being very decent in its own right, where you lost me was the insistence that lack of over taking ability would sink this car.

While it's not strictly aimed at lovers of RWD V8 saloons, it might pay for those types to be a little more open minded; they might just be surprised.

[Bossxr8]

50% of commodore sales this year have been v8's. Those people aren't buying this turd sandwich.

And the 300kg reduction they are claiming would be for a fwd 4 cylinder. AWD v6's won't be much more than 100kg lighter which in the grand scheme of things isn't a massive amount. And you won't be fitting 3 people comfortably across the back seat like you can with a vf.

[X-AHH]

You can't polish a turd but you can roll it in glitter.

Good luck with this one is Holden fans.

[arronm]

Originally Posted by Bluey-GT

They'll have more Korean and European offerings than US ones.
The "Holden" will be lost for sure and after a while it'll just be GM....
The insignia is a decent car with decent kit. It's primary objective is to compete with Mondeo in Europe....
Aussies won't take to it just like they haven't taken to Mondeo here either .
It's all Mazda , Toyota , Hyundai and Kia now.
Ford is fast becoming the "truck" company and GM will struggle to find an identity and any sort of relevance.....sad but true.

That's because these day Australian's arnt aussies.....

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by LeadFoot81

Nah I don't think, and never suggested that this car would perform like a VF SS. Holden don't mean for it to be a replacement for the SS (despite the click bait title of the article) All signs point to it being very decent in its own right, where you lost me was the insistence that lack of over taking ability would sink this car.

While it's not strictly aimed at lovers of RWD V8 saloons, it might pay for those types to be a little more open minded; they might just be surprised.

No worries, just a little lost in translation. Just to re-state the part that I think was missed from my first post-

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

this Commodore is going to struggle (compared to the outgoing model, that is)

They need to market this to their existing base, more people are leaving this segment than entering it. I've bought 3 VF V8s and I notice that this isn't an uncommon scenario with many VF buyers having had previous V8 Commodores. We are the buyers they need to retain- high margin models & private sales. Convince us to trade a RWD V8 for an AWD V6, they will need the bloke from Mad Men. It won't have the in-gear grunt of the current model (ie 80-120), it won't have the sound, it won't have the rear drive dynamics.

As far as being open minded etc, at the end of the day it's just an Opel. There are plenty of V6 sedans with FWD/AWD, your mind can be as open as you like in that segment. Kia Stinger, Chrysler 300, Ford Mustang, that's where an open mind will lead you. I can get out of the Huracan and still thoroughly enjoy the SS, because a rear drive rig with way too much grunt is such a special experience. You'll never get that from a front biased AWD NA V6 insignia.