Holden ECOTEC - tell me about it

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by Dr Terry

Yep, all part of the same family. The Yanks had both iron & aluminium versions of the V8 back then & I believe that Jeep used the V6 for a while during the 60s & 70s. Very long-lived design.

You often hear of "praise" for the RB30 Nissan 6-cyl used in the VL as being such a great engine & so much better than the V6. If you worked in the motor industry during the late 80s into the 90s (especially in a Holden dealership) you probably wouldn't share that view.

Sure the 3.0 was smooth, refined & economical, but they lacked the low-down torque, that Aussie 6-cyl buyers were used to & they also had a long list of service & reliability issues, shared withe R31 Skyline. Things like head gaskets, broken exhaust manifold studs, faulty electronics, including crank sensors, air flow meters, coolant temp sensors, oxygen sensors, ignition amplifiers, ECUs. They were great for the auto service game in the early 90s. just like EA/EB Fords & Mits Magnas.

In hindsight & over the longer term, the ECOTec V6, was a far more durable & torquey powerplant. If you look at the 2nd hand values of VT, VX & VY V6 models, it speaks volumes.

Dr Terry

I'd tend to agree with that. We had a 6yo 50,000km ED in year 2000 as family came along, though I loved that car I was aware the head gasket could go. One day at work, my Mrs phoned that the car had stopped all laden with kids and shopping, with radiator temp up, and I thought "oh no" but it was a split hose, luckily.

I will add one caution to the Buick V6 - the temperature sender located down near the harmonic balancer would sometimes fail in higher temperatures. This occurred on my Dad's VR, the wagon he had before the VY. He'd be driving along, then the sensor would not send a signal, then the car would shut down all power assistance to motor, brakes, steering etc. He once mounted a roundabout in this fashion. Did it still occur by VS? Dunno, but by VY I'd say this is sorted.

Franco, do you have any pics of the alternator fix? It looks like I'll be doing more long drives in the VY soon, so any pics of what to look for appreciated.

[mick taylor]

Originally Posted by Dr Terry

A bit like the old 250 ci Ford 6-cyl, torquey & reliable but didn't like revs.

Dr Terry

Our 3.8L Ecotec V6 is nothing like a 250 Ford at all performance wise.
I have driven a few V6 ECOTEC and performance can very a fair bit as some are gutless and some can go real well.
Same with any engine off the production line from new ?

3.8L ECOTEC will rev to 5500 RPM easy as with good power at 5500RPM, no factory Ford 250 does that.

One Dude DFB claims the gearing of the Commodore V6 auto is lower and that being why the great torque, well that's nonsense !
Being a OHV makes such more responsive down low than OHC.
The VN V6 auto was touchy on taking off, but I think I read about how Holden dealt with that issue later on, with the throttle feed in cam change in the VS I think.

The gearing is no different really to any Holden 3 sp auto with a 3.08 ratio diff in 1st and 2ed, 3rd.
Just that the Ford 4.0L OHC makes such so gutless right off the mark right down low. until the great DOHC 4.0L came out with a 6 speed auto that had a real good 1st gear ratio, so as to take off with real getup and go from the line.

The Holden 3.6L Alloytec is gutless right down low because it was a OHC but went well when revved out not to mention not harsh at all worth crying about.
But for what some fools claim that the 3.6L Aloytec being harsh regarding other 3.0L V6 etc, well sure they are because they are a smaller engine.
Morons make claims that Honda Toyota etc V6 are smoother well their is a reason why such is so, just like back in the 70's with the Jap 6 cyl they were smaller 2.4L 2.6L 2.8L and then up to even 3.0L 6cyl and OHC. like the VL Commodore a nice smooth 6 cyl but gutless right down low off the mark.

Not to mention Holden Red 202 and Blue black could be harsh but Holden never balanced the engines so some were shocking harsh rubbish when revved out but some not as shockingly balanced.
Just look at the conrods shows lack of any regards in that respect for a start.

But as to refinement of the Ecotec V6 it got shorter skirt pistons, that makes for a lighter piston and that makes for a less harshness revving engine and the ECOTEC block was shorter deck height because regarding the new high tec pistons have thinner rings as well so the height of the piston was reduced as well as the skirt.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Seen more than a handful of VS era Commodores getting Barra turbo powerplants.



The earlier versions of the V6 were like throwing a set of spanners into a washing machine, they vibrated like crazy. Absolutely rough as guts.

Sure were. Uncle traded his HQ on one of the new VNs and it did 30mpg, won the traffic light dragstrip, and had transcendental vibration.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

I will add one caution to the Buick V6 - the temperature sender located down near the harmonic balancer would sometimes fail in higher temperatures. This occurred on my Dad's VR, the wagon he had before the VY. He'd be driving along, then the sensor would not send a signal, then the car would shut down all power assistance to motor, brakes, steering etc. He once mounted a roundabout in this fashion. Did it still occur by VS? Dunno, but by VY I'd say this is sorted.

Just correcting that - not the temperature sensor, it is the Crank Angle Sensor, that's the CAS you guys are mentioning above.

Mechanical dyslexia is a curse, please donate generously.

[Dr Terry]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

I will add one caution to the Buick V6 - the temperature sender located down near the harmonic balancer would sometimes fail in higher temperatures. This occurred on my Dad's VR, the wagon he had before the VY. He'd be driving along, then the sensor would not send a signal, then the car would shut down all power assistance to motor, brakes, steering etc. He once mounted a roundabout in this fashion.

It's actually the crank sensor that fails when hot. Was a big problem in the day, simple fix. The replacement units don't fail as much.

Dr Terry

[Sprintey]

They are supposed to be reliable, but what do you reckon this seller's finger slipped when putting in the kilometer reading:

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...13765835/?Cr=7

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Dr Terry

It's actually the crank sensor that fails when hot. Was a big problem in the day, simple fix. The replacement units don't fail as much.

Dr Terry

Dunno if you can still get your hand on the genuine units but I found they never gave **** once replaced, where as the aftermarket ones were hit and miss.

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Just correcting that - not the temperature sensor, it is the Crank Angle Sensor, that's the CAS you guys are mentioning above.

Mechanical dyslexia is a curse, please donate generously.

No CKP no spark or injectors

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...3773826/?Cr=16

All our Ecotec Aficionados, you can live out your dreams with this one owner special, sub $10K.

[DFB FGXR6]

I mean, it sounds so good doesn't it..................



(From 1.50)

[DFB FGXR6]

Meanwhile, Mitsubishi seemed to know how to do it..........

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Dunno if you can still get your hand on the genuine units but I found they never gave **** once replaced, where as the aftermarket ones were hit and miss.



No CKP no spark or injectors

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...3773826/?Cr=16

All our Ecotec Aficionados, you can live out your dreams with this one owner special, sub $10K.

mine gave out a couple random as sniffles with the cruise on and then done a long crank at the shops

booked her in mechanico and all fixed

[MITCHAY]

Mum had a VT Series II and a VE SV6, both autos. I prefer the VT.

She traded the SV6 for a Cruze and well nothing more need to be said about that

[Franco Cozzo]

The thing that I love about this thread is that anyone who has experience with Ecotec Commodore, whether thats fixing them or driving them, prefers Ecotec over Alloytec.

The only value option Alloytec is the straight LPG variation (LWR) introduced in 2012 - which I doubt many of us have experience with unless you happen to drive between Melbourne Airport and Melbourne CBD for a living.

Its got 12.2:1 compression ratio, 180KW @ 6000 RPM and 320NM @ 2000 RPM

http://australiancar.reviews/holden_LWR.php

The only problem is its in a very heavy car so it dulls that torque a lot.

Interesting note is that it actually exceeded Euro VI emissions regulations requirements too.

VN-VS are very light cars, my Caprice only weighs circa 1550kg, a Buick VN is only a touch over 1300kg.

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Franco, do you have any pics of the alternator fix? It looks like I'll be doing more long drives in the VY soon, so any pics of what to look for appreciated.

Engine cover off, take the serpentine belt off, then its two bolts and off she comes.

From memory part number is BXH1333

[Swordie]

In it's time the Supercharged Ecotec (L67) was rated a very good motor compared to the 5.0 V8. It even got fitted to the VT SS and S models. I can't remember the difference between two cars. They both had FE2 and same drivelines.

There is a stoker kit from Mace Engineering for the 3.8 that takes it to 4.2L. Something to consider if you ever need to do a rebuild.

I hired a WM Statesman when new and went for a drive from Sydney to Bathurst and back. The WM had the 3.6 V6 with a 5-speed auto. I liked the motor. It felt like an Ecotec that reved allot harder. I thought it sounded really good planting the foot. Hire cars do go faster. It was fun punting it around the track. There was no race on at the time. I highly recommend gong to Bathurst and taking the time to walk around if you have never been.

There's also the Formula Holden Series. From my reading Larry Perkins used to build motors for these cars. They are based on the Buick 3.8 from a VN. Larry got some good power out of these for a NA six.

[Late braker]

[QUOTE=Peter B - CV8;6777440]Similar to me. I had a VS Statesman & put about 250,000km on it - all troublefree motoring. These Ecotec motors weren't comfortable having their necks wrung & were pretty coarse at high revs. They were a good touring car & ate up the miles with ease - you just had to keep the engine revs in their "happy place".[/

When deciding on the VS Acclaim I had a Lexcen V6 as a hire car for a week and the following week an EL Falcon to compare back to back. Went to Avis or Budget or Hertz, whichever had the two cars I was comparing. Lived with each car for a week. Simulated life as the owner of each car and observed what it would be like.

[Late braker]

When I was comparing the VE SV6 with the BF XR6 I got all forensic. I didn’t like the feel of the handbrake in the VE plus it looked ugly seemingly pulling up a chunk of the between-seats console. Also, the V6 was very “revvy” I found- it was kind of fun but it was all revs-got a bit old after a bit- the Ford was cigar and slippers quick. Very relaxed, could pull up anything and really fast. I still love it. It’s just a quick car. Much less boy racer. Also the Ford had more torque but fewer kilowatts but in the real world torque is king. The red dash cluster lighting in the VE was annoying and the softer blue in the Ford easier and classier. Window switches in the VE felt and looked cheap. Ford better looking front and back- the Commodore muscular VE front guards but didn’t like the back end. Found the boot bigger in the Ford and the spare wheel under the floor was better than the VE at the side of the boot (IIRC?)

[Late braker]

Got to love the big Aussie sixes 😃

[Sprintey]

It was a great era, also the peak of my travel in my career. Got all 4 of them as hire cars, often. The Magna V6 was a beauty, the whole car was put together very well, probably the best. The Camry at 4cyl was OK but didn't get me going. I got base 100 series on mines (liked my 60's gearing better) and single cab petrol Hiluxes to punt around towns. I got a lot of VY-VZs, they seemed the default. Notes as previous in favour of the Ecotec, but one VZ work trip was Darwin to Katherine with no speed limits (limiting factor in how fast it went was actually the suspension hitting it's bump stops on that very average road). I would get a Falcon occasionally, the the BF XR6 I got was a gem. The Ford 6, when married with the ZF, was even better.

Totally understand why you went from the Ecotec VS to the BF.

Now we've had FGs and VE-Fs to add, the FG is a considerably bigger car, but even nicer in it's motor's tune. But I think the BF wins out for me. Then you have the poise and grip of an AWD Territory on gravel/snow or any loose surface (it's glued) and that was what we dropped our cash on... The VF with 3.6 is not as grunty down low, but has it's own charm in it's punch and steering calibration in Calais form. Really nice fit and finish too. I'd kid myself I could keep it without the issues.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Engine cover off, take the serpentine belt off, then its two bolts and off she comes.

From memory part number is BXH1333

Thanks Franco, the fault I remember being told about was an electrical connection at the back of the alternator that falls off and begins to short around the engine bay, do you know of that one? I'd say that could be fixed with new parts with alternator still in place.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Thanks Franco, the fault I remember being told about was an electrical connection at the back of the alternator that falls off and begins to short around the engine bay, do you know of that one? I'd say that could be fixed with new parts with alternator still in place.

Yeah the pins corrode in the back of the alternator connector and the connector can break because it becomes brittle, the bodgy fix is use some female spade terminals if the connector shags out.

[QIKESP]

I've done 660,567kms on an unopened Ecotech in a VT, so far.

Overheated it 3 times due to radiator failure, simply re-tightened all the intake manifold bolts and off it went again.
Over the years its only needed the obligatory crank angle sensor, a set of ignition leads to resolve a miss on cruise control, two thermostats, a water pump and an oil pressure switch.
Regularly Serviced every 10,000kms since I've owned it. Basic oil/filter and air cleaner. Plugs at 50,000.
It's cheap to maintain, and reasonably good on fuel (avg. 850kms out of a tank), which is still surprising considering how the car gets driven.
Engine (Inc. car) is kept going simply for the amount of freeway km's I do yearly, saves my good ride from wear and tear, including avoiding the constant barrage of flying rocks and random debris received along the freeway every day.

The designers definitely got this engine right.

[stock1991]

Congrats because anything over half a million km's must be taxing. Like to see the pics : ). I have heard said if design was about efficency. The engine +drivetrain would be a slide in slide out service.

[Late braker]

My brother has a Ralliart Magna. Rare and quite different. It’s a good car. I don’t like the front drive I prefer rear wheel drive. Looks good though and it’s pretty quick.

[Sprintey]

One thing that isn't the motor but is something you have to watch out for on VT-Y is the fuel flap. It's plastic, and snaps. Easily.

Did it recently with Mum in the car too, grrrr.

Look around and you'll see VT-Y - and Z - with white fuel caps (that's the replacement, unsprayed) or just plain missing. This was an area where AU-BA were much more solid, metal fuel flaps iirc

[QIKESP]

401 Loctite and plastic activator works wonders for the VT fuel caps.
Holds indefinitely until you somehow manage to walk into it while filling up at the Service Station pump and snap the cover off again.
Yeap, I've done that a few times.

[Citroënbender]

Saw a fairly quick VX today.

Unfortunately for the young driver (red P plates) the back proved it was quicker than the front. He was on the phone standing beside it as the tilt tray pulled up. I’ll put quids on “Mum, can you come and get me?”

The tree will be OK, though.

[Sprintey]

A significant number of them have met trees.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

Saw a fairly quick VX today.

Unfortunately for the young driver (red P plates) the back proved it was quicker than the front. He was on the phone standing beside it as the tilt tray pulled up. I’ll put quids on “Mum, can you come and get me?”

The tree will be OK, though.

I did the same thing, except it wasn't a tree, it was Victoria Police and I didn't stack it, but the car still went away on a tilt tray

Originally Posted by Late braker

When I was comparing the VE SV6 with the BF XR6 I got all forensic. I didn’t like the feel of the handbrake in the VE plus it looked ugly seemingly pulling up a chunk of the between-seats console. Also, the V6 was very “revvy” I found- it was kind of fun but it was all revs-got a bit old after a bit- the Ford was cigar and slippers quick. Very relaxed, could pull up anything and really fast. I still love it. It’s just a quick car. Much less boy racer. Also the Ford had more torque but fewer kilowatts but in the real world torque is king. The red dash cluster lighting in the VE was annoying and the softer blue in the Ford easier and classier. Window switches in the VE felt and looked cheap. Ford better looking front and back- the Commodore muscular VE front guards but didn’t like the back end. Found the boot bigger in the Ford and the spare wheel under the floor was better than the VE at the side of the boot (IIRC?)

Had a VF SV6 Sportwagon as a company/pool car, the car itself was nice but the 3.6L V6, the DI variation was a right turd, nothing under 4500 RPM.

I flogged the **** out of that thing every time I drove it, still did 8L/100km on my commute.

It got replaced with an LDV G10+ - jokes on them.

If the VF Commodore had the Barra it would be the perfect car.

[mick taylor]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

One thing that isn't the motor but is something you have to watch out for on VT-Y is the fuel flap. It's plastic, and snaps. Easily.

Did it recently with Mum in the car too, grrrr.

Look around and you'll see VT-Y - and Z - with white fuel caps (that's the replacement, unsprayed) or just plain missing. This was an area where AU-BA were much more solid, metal fuel flaps iirc

I thought that was due to thieves stealing petrol, when I seen such busted off on such Commodores. Thanks ! The Town is not as bad as I thought it was.

[Franco Cozzo]

Bit of Super Ecotec love - L67





12 second car, L67 on E85 with some mods - 8 PSI with its hair dryer M90 supercharger.

Curious to see what these things would do with the larger Eaton M122 Macgyvered onto it

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/325503597208

[Franco Cozzo]

Someone here mentioned the VT SS with the L67 option instead of the 5L - here's one:

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...13906387/?Cr=6