Holden Axeing 1400 Jobs

[Heeno]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Id rather see a company make 1400 people redundant due to restructure and outsourcing than see them go out of business and make their whole workforce of 10,000 people redundant.

yea thats true

[SSbaby]

The only problem with your comment Heno is that we value our way of like... and it does not imply that the majority of us are bludgers... its just that, I, for one, will not work under slave conditions... there's more to life than work and i value that in this country.

What I wish for is for federal governments to address the imbalance (here and the US) by imposing restrictions on Asian companies OR increasing tariffs (temporarily) until those Asian countries discover the true meaning of the term 'free trade'.

[AlbertM]

1400 is a massive loss, whether or not you like Holden.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by SSbaby

The only problem with your comment Heno is that we value our way of like... and it does not imply that the majority of us are bludgers... its just that, I, for one, will not work under slave conditions... there's more to life than work and i value that in this country.

What I wish for is for federal governments to address the imbalance (here and the US) by imposing restrictions on Asian companies OR increasing tariffs (temporarily) until those Asian countries discover the true meaning of the term 'free trade'.

We also have probably the best industrial relations and wage conditions anywhere in the world, which is great if it doesnt impact manufacturing competitiveness, however it does.
Maybe Australia has become a tad complacent when looking at manufacturing on a global scale?

[ZC-Cruiser]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

We also have probably the best industrial relations and wage conditions anywhere in the world, which is great if it doesnt impact manufacturing competitiveness, however it does.

For now - this will be changing soon...

[SSbaby]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

We also have probably the best industrial relations and wage conditions anywhere in the world, which is great if it doesnt impact manufacturing competitiveness, however it does.
Maybe Australia has become a tad complacent when looking at manufacturing on a global scale?

Well the same applies to the US... we should be protecting our industry like the Asians do... unfortunately the they are winning the 'Industrial Revolution' of today. NOT by virtue of their cheaper labour costs, but the protection their respective federal governments offer them.

Anyway, that's my 2c.

Cheers

[Heeno]

Originally Posted by SSbaby

The only problem with your comment Heno is that we value our way of like... and it does not imply that the majority of us are bludgers... its just that, I, for one, will not work under slave conditions... there's more to life than work and i value that in this country.

What I wish for is for federal governments to address the imbalance (here and the US) by imposing restrictions on Asian companies OR increasing tariffs (temporarily) until those Asian countries discover the true meaning of the term 'free trade'.

well i would say you support it, you don't ever get the cheaper version of something?

why pay $10 when you can pay $1 that is my argument

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by ZC-Cruiser

For now - this will be changing soon...

The changes are minor and will only effect small businesses.
Despite the scare campaign thats going on if you actually research the changes they are minimal and it will help give a bit of a boost for small businesses which is needed.

[ck11]

Australian manufacturing needs to become more skilled. Education and having a skilled workforce is the only way to compete. You just cannot compete with asian countries in labour costs, as they will always outcompete. They will always work longer and for less.

Just on a side note, i read a while back from someone who claimed that workers at some of our car manufacturers tamper with the cars by leaving loose screws etc in door panels to cause rattles and annoy the customer, does this actually happen? (that wouldnt help our quality either)

[SSbaby]

Originally Posted by Heeno

well i would say you support it, you don't ever get the cheaper version of something?

why pay $10 when you can pay $1 that is my argument

It's no real surprise the imported item costs less here ...

If you were a manufacturer, you'd cry foul too if they restricted your product for sale in their country (in Asia)... that means your economies of scale suffer and as a result your per unit price is high... What also happens in those countries is that they tend to copy (immitations) a lot of their imported products and 'rob' the Western multinationals of 'fair' trade.

No, I support my own country, first and foremost. It's sucks that Holden are sacking people and the ripple effect is the parts suppliers will also close their lines...

[flappist]

The other day I saw a VW factory, in Shanghai China. All of out VW Polos are made there.
The cost to build is less than one tenth (yes 10 percent) of what it is to build here.

So how long is it going to be before:

Herro, Herro, you want copy car?
We have FPV GT only 100,000 remimbies {$16k}, very good, perfect copy.
Ok, Ok, you my first customer today, I do you good deal, only 80,000 rem.
No, no, come back, I do good deal for you, I like you, only 70,000 rem.
No, no, come back, this copy GT is made with real parts from FPV factory in Xian, my cousin works there and can get parts on black market, don't tell enyone. This is real GT but FPV do not know.......

(if you have not been to asia this may not make a lot of sense but if you have you know that your new GT copy will only cost you about 12000 rem {$2,000} but the engine will run backwards and none of the switches on the dash will actually do anything but it WILL look very original)

Of course the real GT will also be available for about 90% of what it is now but and the owner hand book will read something like....

To make the indication of turning take the lever to the down position of left and up position of right. The indication ends after the stopping of the turning....

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by flappist

The other day I saw a VW factory, in Shanghai China. All of out VW Polos are made there.
The cost to build is less than one tenth (yes 10 percent) of what it is to build here.

So how long is it going to be before:

Herro, Herro, you want copy car?
We have FPV GT only 100,000 remimbies {$16k}, very good, perfect copy.
Ok, Ok, you my first customer today, I do you good deal, only 80,000 rem.
No, no, come back, I do good deal for you, I like you, only 70,000 rem.
No, no, come back, this copy GT is made with real parts from FPV factory in Xian, my cousin works there and can get parts on black market, don't tell enyone. This is real GT but FPV do not know.......

(if you have not been to asia this may not make a lot of sense but if you have you know that your new GT copy will only cost you about 12000 rem {$2,000} but the engine will run backwards and none of the switches on the dash will actually do anything but it WILL look very original)

Of course the real GT will also be available for about 90% of what it is now but and the owner hand book will read something like....

To make the indication of turning take the lever to the down position of left and up position of right. The indication ends after the stopping of the turning....

but true..

[-jjM-]

as much as i hate holden n love seein them suffer, i dont like seein australians loosin jobs, so ill be very nutral about this, 1400 axed is alooota jobs :P

[Dave_au]

Originally Posted by Psycho Chicken

Jeez that sucks mate, hope you're spared.
It has nothing to do with efficiency. Well it would if all labour the world over cost the same, but it doesn't.

Well labour costs could be seen as an item of efficiency. Higher labour rates would suggest the particular economy should have a higher reliance on technology in the manufacturing process than lower labour rate markets. Economics is all in theory.

[OzJavelin]

Originally Posted by Heeno

well i would say you support it, you don't ever get the cheaper version of something?

why pay $10 when you can pay $1 that is my argument

Problem is that the $1 is crap and breaks the first time you use it. Even if you WANT to buy the $10 item you can't find anyone who will sell it!!!!

[Heeno]

Originally Posted by OzJavelin

Problem is that the $1 is crap and breaks the first time you use it. Even if you WANT to buy the $10 item you can't find anyone who will sell it!!!!

hey??? your lost,

why would someone running a business pay $10 to have a eg. mug made when he can get some asian to do it for $1, therefore he gets 10 mugs made instead of one and he can sell them for the original price say $15, so if he gets an australian to make these mugs he will have a profit of $5 per mug, but if he gets the asian to do it he makes $14 profit.
you get my point

[BA GT-HO]

Sadly my job is looking the same way in 2 - 5 years time. It is cheaper for the company to have something printed in China and sent back here.. They have already started laying off factory floor people as well as office staff well over 4 months ago. Plus some of our machines have ended up in China along with some of the big jobs we used to run.

Sorry to hear about Holden, I know a few people who work there and they all are great blokes who don't deserve to lose their jobs.. Such is life unfortunately.

[MrFlibbles]

Good luck to all the guys on and off the forums! it is a sad day when a local company has to lay off that many workers... also bad for the surrounding economy, I know the store i normally work at will be affected, we reall get alot of work from the guys at the Elizabeth plant. I am suitably concerned about my job now.

Good Luck guys

[Kingsley]

Sorry to the people that this will affect. No-one likes seeing people lose their jobs this way.

[Bossxr8]

Funny how the thread about Ford Vs Holden not many people believed me when I said Holden was in trouble. As much as I hate Holden its really bad to see so many people lose their jobs, and the flow on effect it has on automotive suppliers. Makes me wonder if I will even have a job in 10 years time, i'm just glad that Ford seem to be investing plenty in the future and don't really have to rely on overseas exports.
Its a great feeling to know you are basically being sold out by your own government, in regard to free trade. How are we expected to compete with companies that only have to pay slave labour. Open your eyes Johhny Howard before there are no manufacturers left in Australia. Tariff reduction has helped to make Australian manufacturers more competitive and higher quality, but reducing them further might end it all. Leave tariffs where they are and protect Australian made.

[DRU842]

Tariffs & other forms of protection, support inefficient industries at the expense of the efficient. Let's face it your asking the Government to pick winners, when their not real good at their own efficiency.
Our local manufacturing industry has done well over the years adjusting to lower protection (who'd have thought we would still have 3.5 car makers locally when the tariff reduction programmes were announced for the auto industry in the 80's?). Taken across the whole economy (& yes I acknowledge that this is tough on some individuals), aren't we better off, economically, low unemployment, low inflation, low interest rates?

[The MaDDeSTMaN]

Never good to hear of anybody losing their job, and 1400 people losing theirs, well, that's devistating news, sorry to hear about it :(

PS In my opinion, it doesn't matter what company it is, Ford, Holden, Mitsubishi, Toyota, whatever, any loss of jobs is "a bad thing (tm)" :(

[johnydep]

My biggest annoyance over this is the Chairman, Denny Mooney, blaming everyone else for the loss of jobs.

Isn't his job to make sure that the company is profitable and chooses the right dirrection for the future?

Holden have been going hammer & tongs with Commodore/Statesman/Monaro production, while the rest of the world have had the daylights scared out of them with fuel costs, and are concentrating on medium cars for everday transport and SUV's for the attempted road trips.

Mooney's only diversity has been numerous Commodore based models and the VE, which has been delayed too many times. If Holden had a decent medium vehicle to export they could have saved themselves lots of grief.

The VE has to be releaed ASAP, overseas markets are tyred of the present model and that is why Holden (Denny Mooney) has sacked 1400 workers.

Typical behaviour, 'everyone else is wrong but me'.

[MethodX]

He blamed Tariffs and The Aussie dollar which is fair enough.

Its not cost effective to make small and medium cars in Aus, costs as much to develop one as a large car , and the returns are less.

Holden needs to get rid of the Vectra and flog a lot of the new Daewoo Magnus.

[russellw]

It's hardly going to help when 2 out of every three cars sold in this country is an import - July (for example) racked up 24,971 locally manufactured vehicles and 50,406 imports or about a 67/33 split.

Cheers
Russ

[johnydep]

My point is that most of Holden's dilema is bad corporate strategy.
Yes there are other factores, but there is always other factors. The job of the board members is to second guess the future, plan for the future, have back-up strategies, etc.
I thought Holden was a global business, why are they complaining that all their problems are caused by outside factors, yet Toyota Australia continue to grow? (Though Toyota don't seem to have any bold future plans.)

The Weekend Australia reports;

....the automotive giant, which has invested $1.8 billion at its Elizabeth plant, failed to anticipate the growth in SUV sales and has instead pinned its future on the new model VE Commodore at a time when the market is turning to cheaper, smaller imported cars.
.....
Autopolis industry analyst Kim Rennick said the large-car segment in Australia had been propped up by the fleet market, which comprised 80 percent of sales.
Five years ago, large cars made up 36.9 per cent of the Australian car market, compared to 26.2 per cent today.
"Australia is the only country in the world that has a large -car segment as its highest selling size," Mr Rennick said.
"When you consider all four local car manufacturers including Holden have tied their futures to the large-car segment, it clearly is cause for concern."

They all take our market for granted, thinking that Aussie buyers will always be their to buy thier fleet designed vehicles and concentrating on exports as a niche market.

Everyone knew that tarrifs where changing and that the exchange rate is a yo-yo and that authorities have been warning us on fuel prices for a generation.

Imported vehicle sales have increased because private buyers want lower running costs.

I'm sorry, but I can only see the board members Holden to blame here, they were on a winning streak & they may have blown it. (Fingers crossed that they haven't as I live in S.A.).

The bright side, Ford Australia have the Territory that will now be a world class car with the 6 speed auto & engine refinments. Find some more overseas markets & start the export boom.

[Dave_au]

Originally Posted by johnydep

The bright side, Ford Australia have the Territory that will now be a world class car with the 6 speed auto & engine refinments. Find some more overseas markets & start the export boom.

I don't know about that, for the moment it is good, but with the market segment of large cars falling, and lets face it, the Territory doesn't exactly run on an oily rag.

[XplosiveR6]

what I find really wired, is that holdens sales look fantastic on paper, and they export heaps of the locally made cars, the invest less into the commodore then ford does with the falcon yet they are still at a loss, something is not right here

[XD-Machine]

Originally Posted by RED_EL_XR8

Not good news MontyV8! I cannot believe the guff about downturns, I think its more about moving more production into Asia. And its easier for GM management to take Aussie jobs than risk the outcry from cutting poorer performing US plants.

Hope all is OK for the AFF guys working there.

i no this is stupid, every day jobs are going to asian. hell just because they dont care about the ppl's safety and labour costs ($1 or $2 a day) in aisa doesnt mean we should suport it. i hate it our unions and other groups that have fought to make life easier and more civilised for the worker is all ruined because of less developed counties that export everythink and import nothing and ontop of that dont even float the dollar. everytime i hear this it makes me so angry cause we are just making a certain % (very low %) of there ppl rich and one day they are going to be just like the americans but not before they do some serious damage to some hard working business men in australia. the human rase (hate to say it) are out to destroy itself, there are still to much now thinkers and not enough future thinkers and because of this not just in the market but in general we are going down.

neways sorry about your job loss. i bet you find a job just keep thinking postitive.

[Dave_au]

Originally Posted by XD-Machine

hell just because they dont care about the ppl's safety and labour costs ($1 or $2 a day) in aisa doesnt mean we should suport it.

Actually I was suprised to learn on 60 minutes that shipbuilders in the Korean shipyards (for Daewoo) are paid about $70,000 australian a year.