threats to aus, should we be scared? - Page 2

MITCHAY · 02-11-2005, 09:16 PM

Excuse me if this is a stupid question but I was at work to 8 so missed the news. Did we get terrorist threats today?

phoon · 02-11-2005, 09:17 PM

Cant comment about religious views of others as I am an athiest.

niko · 02-11-2005, 09:38 PM

ye apparent threats, and saw some new laws get hurried through parliment in a very non argumentative fashion! lol

vztrt · 02-11-2005, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BA GT-HO

Meh.
I am not going to change my life style for some bunch of losers whose are jealous of how we live and want to disrupt our everyday lives. And the best part (the bit that I laugh at everytime I hear about a suicide bomber etc.) is that what they believe in DOES NOT EXIST!

:

They couldn't give a toss of the western way of life. If they followed their religion than western life is a sin. They want to be left alone. But when the Americans write reports where they want to control the middle east and asia, a country would tend to feel a little threataned.

Anyone who believes that a dictator would knowingly harbour terrorists in his country obviously doesn't know how these people work. A dictator wants full control of its people and having unstable individuals that can turn on you is not what he wants to do.

Sadam was evil. But if the Americans wanted to invade Iraq they should have done it properly and listened to their generals. The generals made reports in the American senate that they would need 300,000 troops not the 70,000 that was sent.

Falcon Freak · 02-11-2005, 10:25 PM

George W Bush used the same scare tactics when he was having trouble trying to obtain approval from the US congress for the Patriot Act. So all of a sudden anthrax spores started appearing in a number of places - especially in the mail to the congressmen who opposed the Patriot Act. When this legislation was eventually approved the anthrax scares stopped. What happened? Did the terrorists run out of anthrax? If they had it then they would still be using it! This was all propaganda to get the America's scared and supporting the Patriot Act. Which means that in the process of trying to protect their freedom, the US citizens gave up some of their freedoms.

John Howard is now using the same scare tactics on the Australian population. He his hoping to convince enough dimwits that he has their best interests at heart with the anti terrorist legislation.

I say if we stopped creating terrorists then they will stop attacking us.

FF

FF

DOC · 02-11-2005, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psycho Chicken

Why? They want to destroy our way of life, I see that as being pretty relaxed. Start worrying and changing the way we live and they are one step closer to what they want, a hardline muslim country in the pacific.
Besides, the facts are you've got more chance of getting killed in a car accident than a terrorist attack. I don't see anyone here not driving.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for finding these idiots and removing their oxygen using rights, but as a whole the public is a wee bit too paranoid.

Quote:

Who gives a rats. Start worrying at the nutters have won.

Psycho Chicken,
sorry i should have read your post corectly, as i took as you had said they had won, but now re re reading it you are saying " start worrying and they have won "

so appologies, we are rowing the same boat.

Pete

RED_EL_XR8 · 02-11-2005, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

Excuse me if this is a stupid question but I was at work to 8 so missed the news. Did we get terrorist threats today?

I've had at least 12 today! Mostly from irate teens !

:

MITCHAY · 02-11-2005, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RED_EL_XR8

I've had at least 12 today! Mostly from irate teens !

:

So will these new proposed terror laws protect you Red lol?

RED_EL_XR8 · 02-11-2005, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

So will these new proposed terror laws protect you Red lol?

Not as much as my grumpy demeanor will !

MO · 02-11-2005, 10:43 PM

Wake up, OZ needs you....do not fall prey to the bull make up your own mind and vote accordingly.

The MaDDeSTMaN · 02-11-2005, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John McMaster

Wake up, OZ needs you....do not fall prey to the bull make up your own mind and vote accordingly.

You mean we get a choice about this one? Thats not the impression I got from what I saw on the news, but I hope I'm wrong...

Sourbastard · 02-11-2005, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3Toed

Ah, you've seen Crimson Tide as well? :hihi:

Yep. But I have also read some of Carl von Clausewitz' work when I was in High School. You can read his collective works here: http://www.clausewitz.com/CWZHOME/CWZBASE.htm

On another note. No domestic law we have will stop a well planned terrorist event. Our best defence is a well resourced intelligence agency acting in foreign countries primarily, with limited local roles in identified areas.

watever · 02-11-2005, 11:28 PM

there is more chance of getting killed in a traffic accident then a terrorist attack. does that mean you will stop driving? i doubt it

also about the anti terror laws-- all good for show, but what difference do they make? if a person has a deranged mind and are willing to kill themselves i doubt any such law will be a deterrent.

gtfpv · 02-11-2005, 11:34 PM

THIS THREAD WORRIES ME AND I'M ONLY SPEAKING FOR MYSELF HERE not telling others how to think as is often presumed of me . i can't believe the i don't give a flying f*****ks comments here . sounds like most people have accepted that they have no voice anymore and leave everything up to our wise leaders. so you dont care if your sister gets both her arms blown off and has to wear a bladder bag for the rest of her life because a terrorist decided to call her number . geeezzzz.

The MaDDeSTMaN · 02-11-2005, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by watever

there is more chance of getting killed in a traffic accident then a terrorist attack. does that mean you will stop driving? i doubt it

also about the anti terror laws-- all good for show, but what difference do they make? if a person has a deranged mind and are willing to kill themselves i doubt any such law will be a deterrent.

Exactly. Life is full of risks, crossing the road can be just as deady as any terrorist threat, however the likelyhood of getting hit by a car while crossing a road is a lot higher then getting injured during a terrorist attack.

Obviously, in the case of crossing a road you can do more to minimise the risk, however you CANNOT completely eliminate it, the same as no matter what anyone does, it is IMPOSSIBLE to completely eliminate the thread of terrorist attacks worldwide.

I think its something people should try and keep in perspective.

**Charliewool** · 02-11-2005, 11:59 PM

When I was growing up it was the threat of the cold war, nuclear holocaust (and later, movies made accordingly)
I honestly cannot see what possible political, or otherwise, gains, benefits or advantages little Johnny can reap from these new laws??
I mean, are we talking George Orwall stuff here? (1984) Is anyone here petrified of being picked up, incarcerated, & tortured because of the new laws? Are we all that paranoid that we think our own government is using these threats as a tool to control us?
I believe we MUST have a certain degree of trust in our elected government whether it be Libs OR Labour!...

vztrt · 03-11-2005, 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charliewool

I honestly cannot see what possible political, or otherwise, gains, benefits or advantages little Johnny can reap from these new laws??
Is anyone here petrified of being picked up, incarcerated, & tortured because of the new laws?

I have a mate thats Indian. He works in the city and carrys a backpack to work. He was pulled up because he was playing with a spoon that he had left over from a coffee he bought. If he dosn't shave he gets looks on the train. He dosn't like terrorists and he isn't muslim. Yet he is already being harrased. How can these new laws guarantee that he woint be harrased or even taken in because they assume that he is suss. Thats what I'm worried about.

If I get killed due to a terrorsist attack I'm prepared to die so that my rights as a free citizen are preserved.

gtfpv · 03-11-2005, 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charliewool

When I was growing up it was the threat of the cold war, nuclear holocaust (and later, movies made accordingly)
I honestly cannot see what possible political, or otherwise, gains, benefits or advantages little Johnny can reap from these new laws??
I mean, are we talking George Orwall stuff here? (1984) Is anyone here petrified of being picked up, incarcerated, & tortured because of the new laws? Are we all that paranoid that we think our own government is using these threats as a tool to control us?
I believe we MUST have a certain degree of trust in our elected government whether it be Libs OR Labour!...

i used to think like this till i seen a mates leg after a german shephard latched onto it when he started his job driving a forklift on the wharves at sydney in 97 98 . his daughter 5 at the time was petrified . but that was just after a new government elected oh and those wharfies deserved it didn't they because someone on tv told us they did.

**Charliewool** · 03-11-2005, 12:19 AM

If he isn't a terrorist, he's got zilch to worry about!..... I certainly don't want to be sitting next to someone of "middle eastern" appearance wearing a backpack travelling on a train, bus or whatever! And before I get hauled over the coals ... it is NOT a racist comment... It is a FACT... Don't we ALL look at other travellers (especially with a backpack or really fat shirt) in a different light now?

vztrt · 03-11-2005, 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charliewool

If he isn't a terrorist, he's got zilch to worry about!..... I certainly don't want to be sitting next to someone of "middle eastern" appearance wearing a backpack travelling on a train, bus or whatever! And before I get hauled over the coals ... it is NOT a racist comment... It is a FACT... Don't we ALL look at other travellers (especially with a backpack or really fat shirt) in a different light now?

So he gets hauled in and detained for 4 days (as I understand it you can held them for upto a week) and is totally innocent and isn't allowed to tell anyone where he has been. Cannot seek damages, for loss of wages. I can see how these laws are gonna help.

By the way I'm more worried about the Junkie on the train than a person who is from the middle east.

(I'm not having a go at you, I'm trying to show a different point of view)

**Charliewool** · 03-11-2005, 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtfpv

i used to think like this till i seen a mates leg after a german shephard latched onto it when he started his job driving a forklift on the wharves at sydney in 97 98 . his daughter 5 at the time was petrified . but that was just after a new government elected oh and those wharfies deserved it didn't they because someone on tv told us they did.

And please tell me just what impact THESE terrorism laws will have on, either me & you OR a forkfift driver on the wharf? Listen to the deafening silence from Kim Beasley also on this!... Doesn't THAT say something?
My point is ... We HAVE to trust someone!... we are the mere worker ants!

gtfpv · 03-11-2005, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charliewool

If he isn't a terrorist, he's got zilch to worry about!..... I certainly don't want to be sitting next to someone of "middle eastern" appearance wearing a backpack travelling on a train, bus or whatever! And before I get hauled over the coals ... it is NOT a racist comment... It is a FACT... Don't we ALL look at other travellers (especially with a backpack or really fat shirt) in a different light now?

mate i agree with your comment entirely . but if he isn't a terrorist and he gets locked up for 7 days on suspicion because he bashes up a federal policemans son say in a pub over a drunken shout ballzup . and he loses his job and defaults his rent or mortgage and goes for unemployment benifits with a tag (suspected terrorist mixup) on him for life . aside from the fact that his wife has a nervous breakdown and he has no job and has been tagged for life he should be happy . just like you when you say (participate in an illegal strike to protect your job and get deamed a terrorist suspect and locked up for 7 days who are the public going to believe you or the tv reporter.

**Charliewool** · 03-11-2005, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vztrt

So he gets hauled in and detained for 4 days (as I understand it you can held them for upto a week) and is totally innocent and isn't allowed to tell anyone where he has been. Cannot seek damages, for loss of wages. I can see how these laws are gonna help.

By the way I'm more worried about the Junkie on the train than a person who is from the middle east.

(I'm not having a go at you, I'm trying to show a different point of view)

Mate... your points are ALL valid (and it ain't about having a "go" at anyone)... I agree!.... But, YOU give me an alternative solution!

**Charliewool** · 03-11-2005, 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtfpv

mate i agree with your comment entirely . but if he isn't a terrorist and he gets locked up for 7 days on suspicion because he bashes up a federal policemans son say in a pub over a drunken shout ballzup . and he loses his job and defaults his rent or mortgage and goes for unemployment benifits with a tag (suspected terrorist mixup) on him for life . aside from the fact that his wife has a nervous breakdown and he has no job and has been tagged for life he should be happy . just like you when you say (participate in an illegal strike to protect your job and get deamed a terrorist suspect and locked up for 7 days who are the public going to believe you or the tv reporter.

gtfpv..... Mate...... I am simply saying.... WHAT is the alternative???? Your hyperthetical above IS a bit far fetched (however, I see your point)
Look, at the end of the day... ANY measures that the government takes to lesson a threat to myself or my family is worthwhile... Please get these frigging conspiricy theories outta your head!

The MaDDeSTMaN · 03-11-2005, 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charliewool

Don't we ALL look at other travellers (especially with a backpack or really fat shirt) in a different light now?

Perhaps so, but the important thing regarding this, IMO, is that while we may find ourselves more suspicious of other travellers, we have to remain aware that it is NOT a reflection on the person themselves, but a result of world events or our own personal experiences. It may seem like a subtle difference, but I think it's an important one.

To illustrate my point, when I was at school, I had quite a few arguments with some people who happened to be from a particular part of the world. What is important is not what part of the world they were from, but that they and I argued and fought. As a result, it's only natural for me to feel a little suspicious when I meet someone from that same part of the world, but as long as I remember that the problems were with those people I went to school with, and not everyone from the country they was born in, I can remind myself that being suspicious of them is unreasonable and nothing more then racism, not to mention extremely unfair and invalid.

Another example, I often find myself judged by other people on the basis of my appearance - in particular, the fact that I don't have much hair, and often look bald. However, anybody who has met me could tell you that I'm not exactly a "romper stomper" - in fact, far from it. However, some people jump to that conclusion. Which I find rather interesting, considering there are many people who preach non-violence who happen to share a similar hairstyle to myself...

In short, as long as we are aware of the basis of our suspicions and are able to realise how unfair and silly they really are, then there is no real problem.

gtfpv · 03-11-2005, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charliewool

gtfpv..... Mate...... I am simply saying.... WHAT is the alternative???? Your hyperthetical above IS a bit far fetched (however, I see your point)
Look, at the end of the day... ANY measures that the government takes to lesson a threat to myself or my family is worthwhile... Please get these frigging conspiricy theories outta your head!

please dont think i am ramming it up you or anyone else here and amm not trying to make it political or religious . and i do see a good side to some of these laws. but i think we are all being cleverly gagged both with issues like IR AND TERRORISM LAWS . my reply to this topic is we should be very concerned . and should not accept that someone blowing us up should be considered an unfortunite fact of life . oh and don't forget you can be deemed just as much a threat as anyone else and legally gagged unable to defend yourself .

vztrt · 03-11-2005, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charliewool

Mate... your points are ALL valid (and it ain't about having a "go" at anyone)... I agree!.... But, YOU give me an alternative solution!

well...

Quote:

Originally Posted by sourbastard

On another note. No domestic law we have will stop a well planned terrorist event. Our best defence is a well resourced intelligence agency acting in foreign countries primarily, with limited local roles in identified areas.

This is a good start. They need to be well funded and be able to process all information that they get.

I'm not saying that ASIO have no powers and that they cant monitor people, but these laws seem to be making it easier to harass people on the basis of what they look like.

I mean to imprison a journo because he woint tell the government the source of his/her info? You can be arrested because of showing large negativity towards the government.

**Charliewool** · 03-11-2005, 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The MaDDeSTMaN

Perhaps so, but the important thing regarding this, IMO, is that while we may find ourselves more suspicious of other travellers, we have to remain aware that it is NOT a reflection on the person themselves, but a result of world events or our own personal experiences. It may seem like a subtle difference, but I think it's an important one.

To illustrate my point, when I was at school, I had quite a few arguments with some people who happened to be from a particular part of the world. What is important is not what part of the world they were from, but that they and I argued and fought. As a result, it's only natural for me to feel a little suspicious when I meet someone from that same part of the world, but as long as I remember that the problems were with those people I went to school with, and not everyone from the country they was born in, I can remind myself that being suspicious of them is unreasonable and nothing more then racism, not to mention extremely unfair and invalid.

Another example, I often find myself judged by other people on the basis of my appearance - in particular, the fact that I don't have much hair, and often look bald. However, anybody who has met me could tell you that I'm not exactly a "romper stomper" - in fact, far from it. However, some people jump to that conclusion. Which I find rather interesting, considering there are many people who preach non-violence who happen to share a similar hairstyle to myself...

In short, as long as we are aware of the basis of our suspicions and are able to realise how unfair and silly they really are, then there is no real problem.

Beautifully said!... The WHOLE lot! I think the word is tolerance? (not about your bald head lol)
I know & respect that normally there is no discussion on political or racial issues on here, however I Do believe, with the problems that are OH SO real, and the way our world has changed, that at times it IS essential that a bit is aired?
(The Maddestman for PM.... Yooooo!)

xespac · 03-11-2005, 02:16 AM

Ban all suspected terrorists & their lousy groups....

If anyone detonates a bomb - and some how survives... should get the death penaly.... it will be cheaper for the government.

The Monty · 03-11-2005, 07:29 AM

I dont understand some things. The government puts out that list of suspect terrorosts, and dont do anything about them. Why dont they just take them and their families visas off them and send them back to where they came from. They would live happily over there because their favourite sport is car bombing, followed by a close terrorism.