All of you looking to get 17s on the Fiesta... Think again. (ST review) - Page 2

Pieoter · 10-08-2006, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teki04

And that 16s are more fun and easier to throw into corners.

Nothing shows that 17s are quicker. I can attest to that, as I've seen RSCs on 17s be outhandled by those on 16s.

This is also the reason you see all small hatches on Semis usually running on 15 inch rims.

Unless it was driven by the same driver its not a fair test.

And yes ppl run 15's because they are so much lighter than larger rims. To compensate they run very stiff suspension but still not as good as a true lightweight rim in a larger size hence large rims being used in motorracing

murcod · 10-08-2006, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HyperKid

What's up with all the smoke in here.

Yeah, what the...

Some things I've noticed with people who buy large wheels:
-generally they are only after the "wow" factor ie. aesthetics, not the best handling
-they are generally also more willing to sacrifice tyre quality (price) to get a bigger wheel size

So, a larger rim doesn't automatically mean better handling- particularly if you've skimped and got cheap **** tyres!! We also don't drive on race tracks which are smooth and generally don't have ruts and potholes....Top Gear cane cars around racetracks and time them- this doesn't really translate to driving on a normal road.

Just some thoughts. ;)

Edit: Forgot to mention - nobody has even talked about the effects of rim WIDTH and handling..... Too mesmerised by size perhaps?

:

Teki04 · 10-08-2006, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by murcod

Yeah, what the...

Some things I've noticed with people who buy large wheels:
-generally they are only after the "wow" factor ie. aesthetics, not the best handling
-they are generally also more willing to sacrifice tyre quality (price) to get a bigger wheel size

So, a larger rim doesn't automatically mean better handling- particularly if you've skimped and got cheap **** tyres!! We also don't drive on race tracks which are smooth and generally don't have ruts and potholes....Top Gear cane cars around racetracks and time them- this doesn't really translate to driving on a normal road.

Just some thoughts. ;)

With you there David.

To get lightweight Rims and GOOD tyres, I'm sure you'd be looking at $5,000.

I know my rims cost $350-400 each, and rubber is $260-300 each corner. So lets just say this is already $3,000 for 4 tyres/rims. And these aren't even lightweight 16s.

Speaking of lightweight, what do you think about lightweight 16s Pie? I'm sure they are better then 17s...

:

Pieoter · 10-08-2006, 10:01 PM

Forged 16's will outdo normal 17 but forged 17's will outdo forged 16's.

If you want the best be prepared to pay the price

murcod · 10-08-2006, 10:01 PM

I can tell you Simmons 3 piece wheels are $700 ea in 17x 7.5". (Simmons are popular with production type race cars.)

If the weight was so critical then the wife's Mazda 6 would have handled better with the old 15" steel wheels. I can tell you the 17" ones are a lot heavier, but light years ahead in handling.

murcod · 10-08-2006, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pieoter

Forged 16's will outdo normal 17 but forged 17's will outdo forged 16's.

If you want the best be prepared to pay the price

Hello!! What about the tyres that are fitted??? Are you just going to drive on bare rims? Rim width vs tyre width? There's a lot more to it than just weight and diameter of the rims.

JD2004 · 10-08-2006, 10:03 PM

ok take it to the brawl forum

the battle is on!!

Teki04 · 10-08-2006, 10:06 PM

Basically, what your saying is that EVERYONE buying 17s because of the aesthetic appeal? Good luck spending $30k on the Fiesta ST because of what it looks like...

Murcod - obviously 17s on a Mazda6 are better to drive! I'm talking small cars, Fiesta size! Hey, if we all had 15 inch rims, how weird would the X5 v8s look! My mate has one with the BMW 20s. I'm sure I'd laugh if I ever saw it on 15s

Pieoter · 10-08-2006, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by murcod

Hello!! What about the tyres that are fitted??? Are you just going to drive on bare rims? Rim width vs tyre width? There's a lot more to it than just weight and diameter of the rims.

Its assumed that all the tyre fitted are the same. Its not a tyre comparison so tyres are the same. Suspension setup and chassis are the same too.

If you wanna get pedantic I can get VERY pedantic

Teki04 · 10-08-2006, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by murcod

Hello!! What about the tyres that are fitted??? Are you just going to drive on bare rims? Rim width vs tyre width? There's a lot more to it than just weight and diameter of the rims.

EXACTLY what I mean. If you go larger rim size, the diameter will have to increase. In doing that, I think you will loose some of the Fiesta's chuckability and fun factor.

Pieoter · 10-08-2006, 10:08 PM

I never said anything about why people buy 17's. It was never part of the discussion

JD2004 · 10-08-2006, 10:08 PM

yes yes get pedantic in the Teki04 vs Pieoter thread

Everyone is watching for a good brawl!!

Pieoter · 10-08-2006, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teki04

EXACTLY what I mean. If you go larger rim size, the diameter will have to increase. In doing that, I think you will loose some of the Fiesta's chuckability and fun factor.

No it doesn't. With the right profile and width selection you can get almst any diameter you want

Teki04 · 10-08-2006, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pieoter

Its assumed that all the tyre fitted are the same. Its not a tyre comparison so tyres are the same. Suspension setup and chassis are the same too.

If you wanna get pedantic I can get VERY pedantic

Pieoter - have you seen what the Fiesta ST comes with?! Pirelli P-Zero Nero Tyres on 17 inch rims... it still doesn't mean it is more fun and quicker then the Continential ContiSport Contact 16 inch tyres on the Zetec.

I guess that bursts your bubble, as the 17s are still worse, even though they have better tyres :sm_headba

Teki04 · 10-08-2006, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pieoter

No it doesn't. With the right profile and width selection you can get almst any diameter you want

So, going up 1 inch, but staying with the same diameter will improve performance?

:

Pieoter · 10-08-2006, 10:12 PM

Do you have a direct comparison of a ST driven on 16's and then 17's with times? NO your pulling **** from your ****

Pieoter · 10-08-2006, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teki04

So, going up 1 inch, but staying with the same diameter will improve performance?

:

Do you have any understanding about tyre deformation?

JD2004 · 10-08-2006, 10:13 PM

bahahaha keep it up guys, entertainment all round here

mitch_lx · 10-08-2006, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by photn

i do believe i am educated enough to say 17" RULE no matter what the problem is. 17" are always better, IMO, just need to get softer suspension
lol

Shoosh up.

photn · 10-08-2006, 10:15 PM

Y me there the ones having a fight!!! tell them off, im allowed to say what i want....lol

MISTA FIESTA · 10-08-2006, 10:16 PM

How about we get both Threads deleted and settle it all out in MSN chat room?

Teki04 · 10-08-2006, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pieoter

Do you have a direct comparison of a ST driven on 16's and then 17's with times? NO your pulling **** from your ****

:

Do you call reputable sources... my Ar$e?

Didn't think so...

Pieoter · 10-08-2006, 10:19 PM

If you have these sources show them? I know you won't because you can't produce a link to your anus

Teki04 · 10-08-2006, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pieoter

If you have these sources show them? I know you won't because you can't produce a link to your anus

PLEASE REFER TO FIRST PAGE

Pieoter · 10-08-2006, 10:22 PM

The first page has NO mention of times and only refers to increase tramlining, feeling bumps or in other words ride comfort

mitch_lx · 10-08-2006, 10:24 PM

The pug 206 GTI 180 has 17inch wheels and it has always been runner up against the 182, Both cars have very very similar suspension setup (live rear axle, like the fiesta, except they have a rear sway bar) Im wondering if the wheel size would make such a large difference.

Reviews have stated the 180 GTI is hard to get to handle right. Maybe it is caused by wheel size/weight of wheel.

Many reviews have stated that the ST is tuned to reward the enthusiast and protect the youngins with less experience.

Obviously done at the expense of fun and driving character.

In saying that, the ST has always been rated very highly, and i think the wheels look fabulous. But simple, there a touch too big, and they are a touch too heavy.

Point being, if your into looking cool and cruising, get 17inch wheels.

If your into fanging, stay with 16inch and buy some great tyres. They will be cheaper to replace too

Photn, please tell me... why are 17inch wheels ALWAYS better and why would you want softer suspension?

Teki04 · 10-08-2006, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mitch_lx

If your into fanging, stay with 16inch and buy some great tyres. They will be cheaper to replace too

Too true

Quote:

Originally Posted by mitch_lx

Photn, please tell me... why are 17inch wheels ALWAYS better and why would you want softer suspension?

Dunno... odd combination that one!

Pieoter · 10-08-2006, 10:33 PM

The point is that 17's with the same great tyres will be better.

photn · 10-08-2006, 10:35 PM

17" are always better IMO i stated, id prefer to 17 cause as u said mithc im not in to flogging my car. id rather cruze around, and get a softer suspension is for the ppl that complain about the bumps and divits in the road.!! i dont see how its odd. simple really.

Teki04 · 10-08-2006, 10:35 PM

So, I'm going to draw the following conclusions;

The Fiesta's don't handle well with 17s, as the 16s are much more fun, and throwable into corners.

Also, Ford screwed with the Fiesta's dynamics and hence screwed the ST. It could have been so much more of a car. With only 100kg more then the C2 VTS, 17 inch alloys instead of 16s on the C2, much more power from a 2.0L instead of a 1.6L in the C2... the Fiesta ST only managed to get 0.1seconds quicker around a track. It was also 0.85seconds slower then the Polo GTI.

But just to annoy the bunch even more... the Fiesta ST was 3.05seconds slower then a 182 CUP :P