New 6.2L Chevrolet LS3 for 2008

[boris]

It bugs the crap out of you knowing that the 5.4 is capable of so much more, if only they could cross the cobra r design with the alloy block of the gt supercar and add a little vct it would be a great engine. Surely their must be a local foundry that could cast a modified head which would allow for vct, ford au have the tech from the i6 for vct, that would solve the low down torque issue, combined with more revs less weight it would be compeditive with any chev. Wouldn't it be cheaper to develop the 5.4 further rather than build a new engine from stratch i.e the hurricane/boss motor?

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by Cobra

The Cobra R was rated at 390hp (287kw) at the flywheel.

Just a *little* tidbit... lol...

Cobra R = 385hp 385ftlbs (287kW 522Nm)

03 Cobra 4.6 Supercharged = 390hp 390ftlbs (291kW 528Nm)

Boss 290 = 389hp 384ftlbs (and everyone knows 290kW 520Nm hehe).

The only truthful rating there is the Boss though. The 03 Cobra had more like 440hp with the numbers they put to the back wheels, and the Cobra R more like 430hp.

[Eaturbo]

Originally Posted by Steffo

Just a *little* tidbit... lol...

Cobra R = 385hp 385ftlbs (287kW 522Nm)

03 Cobra 4.6 Supercharged = 390hp 390ftlbs (291kW 528Nm)

Boss 290 = 389hp 384ftlbs (and everyone knows 290kW 520Nm hehe).

The only truthful rating there is the Boss though. The 03 Cobra had more like 440hp with the numbers they put to the back wheels, and the Cobra R more like 430hp.

Exactly and based on this which is the more effiecent package? the 4.6 with blower and bluepower has proved that you dont need revs to make power. There lastest kit produces 350rwkw or 450kw roughly at engine at 5800rpm and 6psi which is way over what ford would release. This set up with 4psi would see 373kw or the magic 500hp at flywheel.

[sleekism]

I follow the rule that the car industry is always behind the motorcycle industry engine wise by around 20 years.

Motorcycles have almost universally adopted OHC configuration with OHV engines being confined to relaxed cruisers like the Moto Guzzi California with it's 90 degree large capacity V twin.

It annoys me that the Ford OHC V8's dont dominate the Holden OHV V8's the way the Ford OHC sixes did the Holden OHV sixes.

My mate has a VS Commodore with the OHV Ecotec V6, pacemaker extractors, cold air induction and K&N filter.

I have a STOCK AU Fairmont Ghia with the OHC Tickford VCT L6 and my car absolutely flogs the **** out of his commodore.

Considering my car must weigh at least 200 kilos more and is handicapped with a restrictive exaust that means I can hardly hear the engine my advantage must come down to the technology invested into the motor and the long stroke giving me grunt straight off the line.

The BF vs VY should of been the same: A heavier car beating a lighter car due to technology and long stroke grunt.

WTF?

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by sleekism

I follow the rule that the car industry is always behind the motorcycle industry engine wise by around 20 years.

Motorcycles have almost universally adopted OHC configuration with OHV engines being confined to relaxed cruisers like the Moto Guzzi California with it's 90 degree large capacity V twin.

It annoys me that the Ford OHC V8's dont dominate the Holden OHV V8's the way the Ford OHC sixes did the Holden OHV sixes.

My mate has a VS Commodore with the OHV Ecotec V6, pacemaker extractors, cold air induction and K&N filter.

I have a STOCK AU Fairmont Ghia with the OHC Tickford VCT L6 and my car absolutely flogs the **** out of his commodore.

Considering my car must weigh at least 200 kilos more and is handicapped with a restrictive exaust that means I can hardly hear the engine my advantage must come down to the technology invested into the motor and the long stroke giving me grunt straight off the line.

The BF vs VY should of been the same: A heavier car beating a lighter car due to technology and long stroke grunt.

WTF?

OHC is not newer or technologically superior to OHV. That myth is played by car manufacturers.

There's probably more technology in the GenIV Chev V8's then in the Ford 5.4 boat anchor.

[CSV_LS1]

Mmm i could imagine the future looking like this.

Holden 6.0 litre HSV 6.2 litre
Ford 5.4 Boss 290 FPV 6.2 Litre

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by CSV_LS1

Mmm i could imagine the future looking like this.

Holden 6.0 litre HSV 6.2 litre
Ford 5.4 Boss 290 FPV 6.2 Litre

Or from other posts in this Forum:

Holden 6.0 litre HSV 6.2 litre
Ford 4.0 litre T FPV 5.4 litre

[FPV8U]

Love GM's ideas.. More Cubes More Power can't wait to see the New ZO6 8.0L or something... :

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by sleekism

I follow the rule that the car industry is always behind the motorcycle industry engine wise by around 20 years.

Motorcycles have almost universally adopted OHC configuration with OHV engines being confined to relaxed cruisers like the Moto Guzzi California with it's 90 degree large capacity V twin.

It annoys me that the Ford OHC V8's dont dominate the Holden OHV V8's the way the Ford OHC sixes did the Holden OHV sixes.

My mate has a VS Commodore with the OHV Ecotec V6, pacemaker extractors, cold air induction and K&N filter.

I have a STOCK AU Fairmont Ghia with the OHC Tickford VCT L6 and my car absolutely flogs the **** out of his commodore.

Considering my car must weigh at least 200 kilos more and is handicapped with a restrictive exaust that means I can hardly hear the engine my advantage must come down to the technology invested into the motor and the long stroke giving me grunt straight off the line.

The BF vs VY should of been the same: A heavier car beating a lighter car due to technology and long stroke grunt.

WTF?

Technology? Please don't tell me you're one of these people that believe OHCs are new technology, because I seriously burst out in laughter everytime I hear it.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by FPV8U

Love GM's ideas.. More Cubes More Power can't wait to see the New ZO6 8.0L or something... :

They're not GM's ideas, its how engines work.

[Cobra]

Originally Posted by CSV_LS1

Mmm i could imagine the future looking like this.

Holden 6.0 litre HSV 6.2 litre
Ford 5.4 Boss 290 FPV 6.2 Litre

From what I have heard and read the new V8 (BOSS) is supposed to be from 5.8L to 6.4L capacity. I don't know how true this is, and if so, whowill get what, but it would be nice to think that Ford could get a base 280kw all alloy 5.8L and FPV could get a 6.4L equivilent with around 330kw base power. I'm dreaming though, it will never happen. Long live the T 6.....

[sprjenkins]

LOL, I like some of these ideas, I would be very suprised if we see any serious power gains from Fords anytime soon. I know what people say on these forums, but everywhere else I read, Motor, Wheels etc thinks that the Orion will come out with more or less the same engine line up.

I mean how many models was the cross flow used on 1976-1989, then the EA-AU OHC engine, 1989-2002. I would personally be very suprised if the current line of engines are used for only 6 years compared to the 13 years that the previous engines were used for. Also even if the six litre plus V8 - was destined for the Orion it won't be ready in time.

However while we are dreaming why not the 6 litre V12 out of the Aston Martin's. This was originally developed by Ford to power the GT90, therefore its still a Ford engine even if Aston Martin was sold. 550 bhp is available in the upcoming DBS.
410kw N/A GTHO Hmmm

[McobraR]

Originally Posted by Cobra

From what I have heard and read the new V8 (BOSS) is supposed to be from 5.8L to 6.4L capacity. I don't know how true this is, and if so, whowill get what, but it would be nice to think that Ford could get a base 280kw all alloy 5.8L and FPV could get a 6.4L equivilent with around 330kw base power. I'm dreaming though, it will never happen. Long live the T 6.....

Yep, heard the same, but it wont be DOHC or have 4v per cylinder due to costs. They're thinking it'l be a SOHC 2v due to costs.
This new engine was meant to be ready for the next F150 freshen-up, but recent rumours suggests that it wont have it, and that 1) the new engine is meant for cars only (will be released with the next mustang) or 2) the engine has been cancelled AGAIN!

[FPV8U]

Originally Posted by Steffo

They're not GM's ideas, its how engines work.

My point was, with a touch more work, they could get more than enough power out of the 6.0L or 7.0L, the numbers are getting stupid.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by FPV8U

My point was, with a touch more work, they could get more than enough power out of the 6.0L or 7.0L, the numbers are getting stupid.

GM does things in the cheapest possible way to get what they need, for big profit margains and big sales. That's not getting 430hp 3.6L V8 like Ferrari does (360 Challenge Stradale... 425hp 3.6 V8)...

It needs to meet worldwide emissions and be inexpensive to produce. So capacity is the way they go. And its working for them. Considering their V8 line up wipes its butt with Ford's.

[Bud Bud]

Originally Posted by V8GLI

Very true.

My point was that GM don't design the engines for Holden to put in the Commodore it's just good fortune that Holden have access to such a powerful engine.

Ford on the other hand don't have a car to develop a big powerful sports car based V8 for so why would they spend money doing it. Designing one for our relatively tiny sales, global wise, of Falcons isn't cost effective.
Lets hope that their is something in the US Ford catalog that requires one.

I have always wondered why Ford in the States let the Mustang just idle along. This car has tremendous heritage the same as the Corvette. GM use the Corvette as its pinnacle of sport/muscle car prowess and because of this spends the right sort of money to keep it there. That is why the engines are available for use across the whole GM family.

This has always been the case because the first V8 powered Monaro’s and Kingswood/Prems were Chevs as well. A little later Ford US also introduced the Cleveland into the Mustang. This engine was also available across the global Ford Family, F series, 2 door muscle cars and 4 door family sedans alike.

So the question remains, why hasn't the Mustang been allowed to keep the pace of its heritage over the years? I know you can't blame it on the energy crisis of the 70's (4 cylinder versions etc) because GM still did not compromise the Corvette through this era either.

People, while the Corvette remains popular in the States even though it is considered low volume for the Americans, Holden will always have access to "hi-po" V8s for the Australian market. Ford need to look at this.

[mcnews]

Simple, there must be corporate pride and real people working at GM and nothing but tossers working at Ford.

[Powdered Toast Man]

Originally Posted by Bud Bud

I have always wondered why Ford in the States let the Mustang just idle along. This car has tremendous heritage the same as the Corvette. GM use the Corvette as its pinnacle of sport/muscle car prowess and because of this spends the right sort of money to keep it there. That is why the engines are available for use across the whole GM family.

This has always been the case because the first V8 powered Monaro’s and Kingswood/Prems were Chevs as well. A little later Ford US also introduced the Cleveland into the Mustang. This engine was also available across the global Ford Family, F series, 2 door muscle cars and 4 door family sedans alike.

So the question remains, why hasn't the Mustang been allowed to keep the pace of its heritage over the years? I know you can't blame it on the energy crisis of the 70's (4 cylinder versions etc) because GM still did not compromise the Corvette through this era either.

People, while the Corvette remains popular in the States even though it is considered low volume for the Americans, Holden will always have access to "hi-po" V8s for the Australian market. Ford need to look at this.

I think it's because the Mustang and the Corvette are are designed for 2 different market segments.

Maybe at the beginning the Corvette was just a sporty touring coupe but it became a high performance sports car, essentially GMs hero car. The Mustang was only ever designed as a touring/sports car for the masses right from day one. Sure during the late 60's and early 70s Mustangs became true muscle cars with big engines, but so did everything else in the states. The Vette had just as big an engine but in a small lightweight body. It was still a high performance sports car rather than a muscle car.

Don't get me wrong, I love Stangs and hope they live on forever and I'm not trying to sell GM product but they were and still are designed for a different purpose than the Vette. To be the everymans performance coupe, not the elite American HiPo sports car. And thats why Ford don't pour huge amounts of money into them to develop big power engines, that would put them out of many customers reach.

That's my take on it anyway. I'll stop going on about it :

[sleekism]

For those who seem to be championing OHV technology lets take a quick lesson in history.......

It's the muscle car era and Chrysler has enjoyed huge sucess with it's 426 Hemi due to the valves not being parallel there is better airflow and greater thermal efficiency (a natural trait of OHC engines).

Ford makes the simple realisation that it would be simpler to build the engine with SOHC and thus the Ford 427 SOHC "cammer" was built for NASCAR based on the FE engine family it was rated around 700hp at 7500 rpm.

Unfortunately NASCAR banned OHC engines (too powerful perhaps?) and the cammer spent it's life in drag strips.

Just imagine if V8 supercars was actually competitive and based on real cars im sure a DOHC Boss with no pollution gear would spank Holdens designs.

Forty years ago im sure side valve fans were saying OHV cars were not so hot.......

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by sleekism

For those who seem to be championing OHV technology lets take a quick lesson in history.......

It's the muscle car era and Chrysler has enjoyed huge sucess with it's 426 Hemi due to the valves not being parallel there is better airflow and greater thermal efficiency (a natural trait of OHC engines).

Ford makes the simple realisation that it would be simpler to build the engine with SOHC and thus the Ford 427 SOHC "cammer" was built for NASCAR based on the FE engine family it was rated around 700hp at 7500 rpm.

Unfortunately NASCAR banned OHC engines (too powerful perhaps?) and the cammer spent it's life in drag strips.

Just imagine if V8 supercars was actually competitive and based on real cars im sure a DOHC Boss with no pollution gear would spank Holdens designs.

Forty years ago im sure side valve fans were saying OHV cars were not so hot.......

The 426 Hemi is OHV pushrod mate....

And how would a DOHC Boss spank the Holden race engines? By being heavier, raising the car's centre of gravity, decreasing acceleration and handling and braking ability because of it, and costing alot more money? Yep, that'd work well.

http://www.allpar.com/mopar/hemi/hemi.html

You've got it a bit backwards...

There was a Chrysler DOHC Hemi in 1964. It was made in response to the 427 SOHC. The 427 SOHC was made in response to the normal, OHV Pushrod, 426 Hemi. When the 427 SOHC was banned, the DOHC Hemi was scrapped, and neither of the two DOHC 426's they made ever made it into a car.

A direct quote from said article...

Shaw wrote that no DOHC Hemi ran under its own power; they were driven by an electric motor to check the valvegear. Research stopped in 1964 when NASCAR banned the SOHC 427 and Chrysler's own race Hemi. One DOHC Hemi still exists.

[Cobra]

Originally Posted by Steffo

The 426 Hemi is OHV pushrod mate....

And how would a DOHC Boss spank the Holden race engines? By being heavier, raising the car's centre of gravity, decreasing acceleration and handling and braking ability because of it, and costing alot more money? Yep, that'd work well.

http://www.allpar.com/mopar/hemi/hemi.html

You've got it a bit backwards...

There was a Chrysler DOHC Hemi in 1964. It was made in response to the 427 SOHC. The 427 SOHC was made in response to the normal, OHV Pushrod, 426 Hemi. When the 427 SOHC was banned, the DOHC Hemi was scrapped, and neither of the two DOHC 426's they made ever made it into a car.

A direct quote from said article...

Without trying to go off topic, if they hadn't banned the DOHC and SOHC V8s, it may have been a major turning point in the US automotive industry. We may well have had DOHC Corvettes, Vipers and other yank muscle cars roaming around the streets today!

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by Cobra

Without trying to go off topic, if they hadn't banned the DOHC and SOHC V8s, it may have been a major turning point in the US automotive industry. We may well have had DOHC Corvettes, Vipers and other yank muscle cars roaming around the streets today!

There was a DOHC Corvette, the C4 Corvette ZR1. GenII LT5 V8, 405hp 385ftlbs. And it was a piece of crap. The usual problem that Ford is having now, big heavy engine, handled bad, heavier, expensive (was like 70k brand new then) and slower. The later Corvette Grand Sport (330hp Pushrod LT4) kicked the ZR1's butt at everything.

[sleekism]

This is getting way off topic I think.............
I'm a fan of both OHV and OHC muscle car V8's but I dont think Ford is going to abandon OHC technology as theyve invested so much into it and it would be an embarassment.

Though I do have an idea that would keep everyone happy...

Why dont they produce two engines like they had the clevo and the windsor.

They can use the modular for SUV's, pickups and base model V8's and then they can build a short stroke alloy motor for mustangs etc.

Would it be possible to build a V8 on the same line as the Duratec V6???

[brodfloyd]

they do, its called the jag 4.2

[sleekism]

True!

Then on a scarier note is it possible for Holden to build a V8 on the same line as the Alloytec V6?

[brodfloyd]

they sort of already do i think. the alloytec sort of is the son of the old ecotec, and the ecotec was once a buick. and im pretty sure someone told me that the buick six was a cut down v8.

kinda like 7 degrees from kevin bacon

then again i could be talking rubbish tho.

[brodfloyd]

infact further to my previous post sleekism

here

read this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buick_V6_engine#Series_II

wikipedia is a marvelous tool, i suggest you use it.

[sleekism]

Try going to Wikipedia and typing in Ford engines and have a look at the current V8's available and then type in GM engines and have a look at the V8's on offer.

It looks like GM has a pushrod and a OHC family on offer.

Come on Ford pull your finger out stop making truck engines!!!

If you have to do a Chrysler and just copy the GM engine (what I heard dont quote me)

[banarcus]

Originally Posted by sleekism

Try going to Wikipedia and typing in Ford engines and have a look at the current V8's available and then type in GM engines and have a look at the V8's on offer.

It looks like GM has a pushrod and a OHC family on offer.

Come on Ford pull your finger out stop making truck engines!!!

If you have to do a Chrysler and just copy the GM engine (what I heard dont quote me)

Theres not a real lot wrong with the current setup. If you go for a drive in a 32v Ford V8 in a overweight Falcon, you would have to agree that Ford have done a good job considering its the a heavy beast. Perhaps a increase in cubes would help or even a VCT setup to boost torque down low. Until the new hurricane V8 anyway.

[Powdered Toast Man]

They are VCT aren't they? Both the 32v and 24v?