Russia v Ukraine

[zilo]

Originally Posted by FairmontGS

Russian inflation slows to pre-war level as worst appears over



image

https://www.aljazeera.com/economy/20...t-appears-over

Cool..what's the price of a litre of petrol in Moscow?

64 cents...

I guess we are better off with high inflation....

[Mulva]

Personally I like that we are not facing a 2-year deep recession, annual inflation approaching 20%, 17% interest rates, and dramatic reduction in GDP, like Russia is...just my opinion as not an economist, but those things don't sound great.

Source: That article you guys are celebrating as good news for Russia

Meanwhile, Al Jazeera also reporting support to join NATO in Sweden and Finland continues to grow. But that was one of Vlad's plans right? Increase the number of NATO members, bring NATO closer to Russia and extend Russia's shared border with NATO members.

[PhilT2]

Originally Posted by zilo

Cool..what's the price of a litre of petrol in Moscow?

64 cents...

I guess we are better off with high inflation....

Salary for the Russian conscripts fighting in Ukraine is $US25/month.

https://theconversation.com/ukraine-...-before-180435

The professional soldiers are getting more but this makes the stories of looting more believable.

[Mulva]

Originally Posted by PhilT2

Salary for the Russian conscripts fighting in Ukraine is $US25/month.

https://theconversation.com/ukraine-...-before-180435

The professional soldiers are getting more but this makes the stories of looting more believable.

It's sad when you read transcripts of their intercepted calls back home - their surprise at how "wealthy" the Ukrainians are, how well they live..."Every house has a washing machine" and "I got to drive a Kia, you push a button to start it" and "All their clothes are good quality - I got some New Balance and Nikes".

You sometimes forget that Russia is a country of extremes - like they have hypersonic missiles and main cities have the stuff we take for granted in the west, but you don't have to go far out of those cities to find villages without power and mains water and donkeys pulling carts.

Did lol when reading most of the packages sent by those Russian's caught on CCTV posting their loot in Belarus post office never arrived - the loot they stole in Ukraine was stolen by the Russian postal workers.

[FairmontGS]

Originally Posted by zilo

Cool..what's the price of a litre of petrol in Moscow?

64 cents...

I guess we are better off with high inflation....

Originally Posted by CoupeKing

We win, you lose.

you guys...

https://www.facebook.com/harvesttrai...3242965510122/

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by Mulva

It's sad when you read transcripts of their intercepted calls back home - their surprise at how "wealthy" the Ukrainians are, how well they live..."Every house has a washing machine" and "I got to drive a Kia, you push a button to start it" and "All their clothes are good quality - I got some New Balance and Nikes".

You sometimes forget that Russia is a country of extremes - like they have hypersonic missiles and main cities have the stuff we take for granted in the west, but you don't have to go far out of those cities to find villages without power and mains water and donkeys pulling carts.

Did lol when reading most of the packages sent by those Russian's caught on CCTV posting their loot in Belarus post office never arrived - the loot they stole in Ukraine was stolen by the Russian postal workers.

image

This should be a toilet, they’re looting them from villages too

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by Mulva

Personally I like that we are not facing a 2-year deep recession, annual inflation approaching 20%, 17% interest rates, and dramatic reduction in GDP, like Russia is...just my opinion as not an economist, but those things don't sound great.

Source: That article you guys are celebrating as good news for Russia

Meanwhile, Al Jazeera also reporting support to join NATO in Sweden and Finland continues to grow. But that was one of Vlad's plans right? Increase the number of NATO members, bring NATO closer to Russia and extend Russia's shared border with NATO members.

Originally Posted by Mulva

It's sad when you read transcripts of their intercepted calls back home - their surprise at how "wealthy" the Ukrainians are, how well they live..."Every house has a washing machine" and "I got to drive a Kia, you push a button to start it" and "All their clothes are good quality - I got some New Balance and Nikes".

You sometimes forget that Russia is a country of extremes - like they have hypersonic missiles and main cities have the stuff we take for granted in the west, but you don't have to go far out of those cities to find villages without power and mains water and donkeys pulling carts.

Did lol when reading most of the packages sent by those Russian's caught on CCTV posting their loot in Belarus post office never arrived - the loot they stole in Ukraine was stolen by the Russian postal workers.

You’re wasting your time, the “Wack Jobs” will say everything is “Rosy” in Mother Russia.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by Mulva

It's sad when you read transcripts of their intercepted calls back home - their surprise at how "wealthy" the Ukrainians are, how well they live..."Every house has a washing machine" and "I got to drive a Kia, you push a button to start it" and "All their clothes are good quality - I got some New Balance and Nikes".

......

Hmmmmmm. Ukraine was the poorest country in Europe before the war started.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/co...ries-in-europe

They also receive hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign aid every year, but its not always been put to good use. The EU gave them a list of things they needed to fix before they could be accepted. Corruption and transparency in their democracy process were two of them I believe.

[burnz]

Originally Posted by Fordman1

You’re wasting your time, the “Wack Jobs” will say everything is “Rosy” in Mother Russia.

question: didn't Zelensky, Ukraine president jail all opposition party's and cancel all elections??

sounds democratic to me... this is year 4 of totalitarian government..

[PhilT2]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Hmmmmmm. Ukraine was the poorest country in Europe before the war started.

Somehow I don't think that is likely to change for a long time. Rebuilding and repaying debt will keep them poor for the foreseeable future.

They have been trying to do something about the corruption; remember that prosecutor they were told to sack by a then vice president? Let's not go down that rabbit hole.

Russia has considerably more wealth but it gets spent on maintaining their huge nuclear arsenal and the arms race. The oligarchs rip off the rest.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEpk_yGjn0E

[T3rminator]

Looks like Wimbledon is set to pull the trigger on banning all Russian and Belarusian competitors. Not even the option of signing papers. Apparently due to fear that the royals might have to present the trophy to a Russian or Belarusian in the event that they win. Poor form IMHO. Its interesting that tennis as a sport seems to be at the forefront of politics lately.

Originally Posted by PhilT2

Russia has considerably more wealth but it gets spent on maintaining their huge nuclear arsenal and the arms race. The oligarchs rip off the rest.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEpk_yGjn0E

Yep. It is alleged that Putin has no love lost for these oligarchs, especially those that invest their wealth offshore. Hence the sanctions are unlikely to have their desired outcome. However, also mindful Putin himself has multi billion dollar assets.

[Mulva]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Hmmmmmm. Ukraine was the poorest country in Europe before the war started.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/co...ries-in-europe

They also receive hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign aid every year, but its not always been put to good use. The EU gave them a list of things they needed to fix before they could be accepted. Corruption and transparency in their democracy process were two of them I believe.

I don't see where I was arguing any of this is good for Ukraine - it isn't. Their looking at losing 50% of GDP this year alone. Was simply responding to those that don't think this is having a negative effect on Russia's economy, currently and for several years to come.

We're on different sides of this but you put up rational arguments for your point of view and don't seem to simply troll - surely you're not arguing that Russia's economy is and will be fine throughout all this?

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by Mulva

surely you're not arguing that Russia's economy is and will be fine throughout all this?

Economics is not my background, so I don't know to be honest. But I am seeing a lot of emerging economies sitting this one out and still willing to work with Russia. And if Russia does indeed start to nationalise, that could improve their GDP. They hold commodities that the world desperately needs, and its not just their oil and gas. They might suffer for the next couple of years, but in the long run it might actually work? Their economy wasn't exactly smashing either pre-war, so any small gains would still be an improvement. I don't think they will go poor and starve that's for sure. They won't be a North Korea.

As for taking sides, I don't think its all one way as we have been made out to believe, but that doesn't mean I'm pro the invasion. I'm on the side of the truth?

[MITCHAY]

I feel sorry for those poor bastards still holed up at the steel plant in Mariupol. They are dead either way at this point unless the Ukrainian forces can somehow push Russian forces back. I wouldn't surrender to those pricks so it is grim.

Russia has already claimed the win in the battle but the war is far from over.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

I feel sorry for those poor bastards still holed up at the steel plant in Mariupol. They are dead either way at this point unless the Ukrainian forces can somehow push Russian forces back. I wouldn't surrender to those pricks so it is grim.

Russia has already claimed the win in the battle but the war is far from over.

There is a lot of propaganda being played out by both sides and the truth will eventually come out if and when this war is over.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Economics is not my background, so I don't know to be honest. But I am seeing a lot of emerging economies sitting this one out and still willing to work with Russia. And if Russia does indeed start to nationalise, that could improve their GDP. They hold commodities that the world desperately needs, and its not just their oil and gas. They might suffer for the next couple of years, but in the long run it might actually work? Their economy wasn't exactly smashing either pre-war, so any small gains would still be an improvement. I don't think they will go poor and starve that's for sure. They won't be a North Korea.

As for taking sides, I don't think its all one way as we have been made out to believe, but that doesn't mean I'm pro the invasion. I'm on the side of the truth?

Both Ukraine and Russia economies will be taking a hammering no doubt it and it will take many years for both countries to recover.

I would dare say Putin would not have expected the severity of economic sanctions that have taken place.

[MITCHAY]

I'm wondering with this amount of coverage that we are seeing in Ukraine and all the horrors, if it might have prevented the wars in 2001 and 2003 going on for how long they did if we had the same coverage back then. No social media.

[Citroënbender]

I note Melbourne uPVC glazing suppliers Blue Sky Windows are nailing their colours to the mast: https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=376619201130254 Wondering if it will get them trolled.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

I note Melbourne uPVC glazing suppliers Blue Sky Windows are nailing their colours to the mast: https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=376619201130254 Wondering if it will get them trolled.

Ukraine is getting a lot of sympathy so I doubt it.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

I feel sorry for those poor bastards still holed up at the steel plant in Mariupol.

I feel sorry for the civilians who took cover there and now can't leave. Looks like there are quite a few kids holed up there too, and they are running out of food.

The military personnel holed up there are from the Azov battalion, I'm finding it hard to feel sorry for them. Its been reported that the Russians have said they will give no mercy to Azov, so I can understand why they didn't surrender.

Curious to know why the civilians did not "surrender" and evacuate when the Russians gave them that 8 hour window. They are now asking for a humanitarian corridor to allow the civilians to leave. None of that makes any sense.

[FairmontGS]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Curious to know why the civilians did not "surrender" and evacuate when the Russians gave them that 8 hour window. They are now asking for a humanitarian corridor to allow the civilians to leave. None of that makes any sense.

I'd say it has something to do with the endless pictures of civilians mown down where they stood or machine-gunned in their cars or executed with their hands tied behind their back.

Probably something like that...

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by FairmontGS

I'd say it has something to do with the endless pictures of civilians mown down where they stood or machine-gunned in their cars or executed with their hands tied behind their back.

Probably something like that...

Maybe some Ukrainian Civilians are not cowards and are proud of their country, maybe they want to defy the savages that have invaded it, by not rolling over and kissing Russian **** ?

But the “Wacko” Putin supporters here think their beloved (cowardly, looting) troops were going to be greeted with flowers, and gifts of salt and bread ?

That ended well.

Those Russians now have washing machines, toilets, etc, loaded in their trucks for the retreat back to their villages.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

I feel sorry for the civilians who took cover there and now can't leave. Looks like there are quite a few kids holed up there too, and they are running out of food.

The military personnel holed up there are from the Azov battalion, I'm finding it hard to feel sorry for them. Its been reported that the Russians have said they will give no mercy to Azov, so I can understand why they didn't surrender.

Curious to know why the civilians did not "surrender" and evacuate when the Russians gave them that 8 hour window. They are now asking for a humanitarian corridor to allow the civilians to leave. None of that makes any sense.

Not all Azov members has links to to being neo nazis, also this particular battalion that is hold up is reputed to have a lot of mercenaries fighting with them so I don't think surrendering is much of an option since the Geneva convention states mercenaries are not recognized as legitimate combatants and do not have to be granted the same legal protections as captured service personnel of a regular army.
As for the civilians they do not trust the Russians of atrocities being committed which is quite understandable why they are holed up.

[MITCHAY]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

I feel sorry for the civilians who took cover there and now can't leave. Looks like there are quite a few kids holed up there too, and they are running out of food.

The military personnel holed up there are from the Azov battalion, I'm finding it hard to feel sorry for them. Its been reported that the Russians have said they will give no mercy to Azov, so I can understand why they didn't surrender.

Curious to know why the civilians did not "surrender" and evacuate when the Russians gave them that 8 hour window. They are now asking for a humanitarian corridor to allow the civilians to leave. None of that makes any sense.

Me too. Why didn't they just leave, those Russian forces are fair dinkum top blokes and anyone can just walk out into all the humanitarian corridors that don't exist.

It's also their fault they were invaded and missiles land in their homes

[T3rminator]

They were given a window. It wasn't taken. The rest is just speculation. Keeping unarmed women and children holed up in a steel mill, and have them risk starving to death, is neither brave nor defying.

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

Me too. Why didn't they just leave, those Russian forces are fair dinkum top blokes and anyone can just walk out into all the humanitarian corridors that don't exist

Yeah those “top blokes” are friendly, they have Washing Machines, Electronic goods, used cars, and used toilets for sale in Russia.

Forget that those stupid savages are looters, rapists, and murderers of children, but “some” here will say that is Ok (BTW: those idiots here are on ignore).

[Citroënbender]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

Me too. Why didn't they just leave, those Russian forces are fair dinkum top blokes and anyone can just walk out into all the humanitarian corridors that don't exist.

It's also their fault they were invaded and missiles land in their homes

The “She was asking for it” rape defence.

Aside from that, I was heartened to hear of some people (friends of friends) sponsoring a few of their Russian friends’ VPNs and cloud subscriptions from Western Europe. Feedback is that even with the access to unfiltered news, many Russian people are still favouring the official narrative.

[MITCHAY]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

They were given a window. It wasn't taken. The rest is just speculation. Keeping unarmed women and children holed up in a steel mill, and have them risk starving to death, is neither brave nor defying.

No it wasn't. The corridors have collapsed constantly and a lot of them were to funnel towards Russia. WTF would they go there?

Do you honestly believe civilians are holed up there by choice? The city has been destroyed, it's the last place that is 'safe'.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

No it wasn't. The corridors have collapsed constantly and a lot of them were to funnel towards Russia. WTF would they go there?

Do you honestly believe civilians are holed up there by choice? The city has been destroyed, it's the last place that is 'safe'.

Of course they are not there by choice. The underground bunkers in the mill were used for shelter, not to fight the Russians.

Over 5 million people have evacuated. Would suggest weapons stop getting funneled through evacuation corridors to avoid them "collapsing" in the future. Unless they want to use evacuees as human shields.

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

The “She was asking for it” rape defence.

Aside from that, I was heartened to hear of some people (friends of friends) sponsoring a few of their Russian friends’ VPNs and cloud subscriptions from Western Europe. Feedback is that even with the access to unfiltered news, many Russian people are still favouring the official narrative.

The Russians are very technologically savvy, they can get around that sort of stuff quite easily. I would suggest lies of the last 20 years from certain administrations have people being skeptical and asking questions.

As for the atrocities mentioned, I think it'd be pretty naive to think it is just from one side. When you release murderers and rapists from prison, and give them arms, bad things are going to happen. Patrick Lancaster's on the ground interviews with civilians are somewhat mind opening.

[Mulva]

I'd read people question the way Putin walks in last 18 months and instances where he doesn't seem to have 100% control of his right arm and leg - wonder if this recent footage has been tampered with or if he has Parkinsons or some other form of MND

https://twitter.com/i/status/1517737876276060160

And that recent footage with his Defence Minister where Putin is gripping the table tightly with his right hand - maybe that was to control involuntary movements, but could also have been trying to hold in a fart.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8q0H3-8Tw0