is a mercedes c63 amg 2.5 times the car of a fpv 335 GT?

[xboss]

I know the topic compares the 335GT to C63, however I've driven the 5.4GTE and C63 so can only compare those.
While I was expecting the C63 to be a better drive than the GTE, I was really surprised at how much better the C63 was. Who knows if it's 2.5 times better but if I was thrown the keys to both, the C63 wins hands down.
That's not to downplay the GTE as it's still a great car to drive.

[data_mine]

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

Remember C63s sell for 60 kay on the US market, which makes our 335 GT look like the rort of the century. So really, a C63 is only '2.5 times the car' after various taxes and what have you...

I've actually done the math on it. the tax's etc. would only make a C63 ~90k here not the ~180k. Merc (and BMW/Audi) add a big '**** you Australia' profit margin, because they can. They obviously sell enough to make them happy at a price that's ******* great profit for them.

It's even 'worse' on the next range up. E63/M5/RS6 we see 250k here, they're 80k US.

[gcg2503]

Originally Posted by ESP

AMG = 6.3 litre N/A engine and makes 600NM

Originally Posted by fitzwa

C63 AMG is 6.3 N/A 336kw 600nm and it would smack any factory falcon, hsv etc any day of the week.

By the way guys

C63 is 6.2 not 6.3

Go figure!

Have friends with E55, S55 and an E63. Having been in all of them I would take these over any FPV offering

[data_mine]

was named 63 for historic reasons.

Like our modulars being called BOSS'

[F6E]

Originally Posted by data_mine

It's even 'worse' on the next range up. E63/M5/RS6 we see 250k here, they're 80k US.

Too true, yet you get on M5board.com and the Seppos' carry on like $80 K is killing them. I sold my 6 yo, 90km, M5 for more than you'd pay for a brand spanker in Obama Land.... F10 will price point mid/high $80's US
I still cant get my head around the reasons for the price difference, same car, same parts, same, same, same... They even get better warranty, covers consumables like clutch and brakes !

Where does the extra $170K go ?

Bit (lot) OT, sorry

[gcg2503]

Originally Posted by F6E

Where does the extra $170K go ?

Govt Taxes, BMW Australia and respective BMW dealers

[Bent8]

I have driven one and they are just awesome but definitely overpriced at $150k...

Very tight gearing, 7200rpm and only 1730kg means super fast performance, the handling is good but not great, very firm setup and no standard LSD ($3k option) means getting tail happy is the easiest thing to do.

Interior plastics are not what you'd expect of a $150k luxury sedan but build quality is first rate (duh) and the exhaust note?...well what do you expect from a race-bred 11:1 compression big bore V8

Surprised to hear from others the 7G-tronic is not as good as the ZF box though...there are rumours Mercedes is going to use the 8-speed ZF unit in future models.

Regardless, the GT335 is a large performance sedan so should really be compared to an E63 which has 518HP and weighs about the same as the GT.

[SteveJH]

Originally Posted by HULK_BA

But is it 2.5 times the car?

Doubt it, law of diminishing returns and all that.

Would I have one if I had a spare $150,000? Only if I had nothing better to spend the money on....

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by Danny

Is the C63 2.5 times the car of the GT335?

Its actually probably 10 times the car of the 335. The 335 is a heavy car with a POORLY set up chassis which doesn't handle, and doesn't get the power down with those stupid skinny tyres (what the HELL was Ford thinking??).

The C63 is a wonderful car with perfect handling (which belies its admittedly falcon like weight), wonderful steering feedback (perhaps a tiny bit of rack rattle) and is blisteringly fast (getting the power down is half the battle of the FPV), with every single concievable creature confort you'd expect from a post $100k car. This vehicle and ANY Australian built "sports" sedan (dumbass looking HSV's included) need not even be mentioned in the same sentence.

The C63 is worlds ahead of anything that Ford or Holden can offer, and it makes sense when you consider the worldwide market they are built for commands a world class budget. Any comparison or attempt to insinuate that a 335 GT is a serious alternative is laughable.



When you consider this is an AMG vehicle, whose pricing begins at "only" $140k (especially when you consider pricing on current other AMG models or AMG's of the past with similar performance), for something which performs and handles and seats 4 in comfort, then in my opinion, it is great value. The fact that last year the C63 alone was responsible for breaking a new AMG sales record says volumes.

I can not wait for the C63 Coupe to arrive here. Then, I may just be a convert myself.

fair call your right

[SLO AU XR8]

Yes. RNS-11Z is a member on here with an extremely tough, 11 sec C63. These look and sound the business, along with having the reputation of being a Merc. Build quality of the C63 makes the GT/GT-P/GT-E look like a taxi.

Obligatory pics of Harun's C63:

[jpd80]

Would it be cheaper to buy a new C63 in England and pay any duty levied to import it into Australia?

[data_mine]

Harun made the trek down to Temora for the 1000m sprint on the runway yesterday.

IIRC he was doing 23s passes, I did high 24, and some low 25's

[Ben73]

I know this is an older C class, but yes it's a taxi. Surely there would be the new one used as taxis somewhere.


I spent about half an hour browsing US car sites the other day, and we pay so much more then them. I know their average yearly income is less then ours, but still a car is the same car no matter where in the world it is.

[RAREV8]

Originally Posted by data_mine

I've actually done the math on it. the tax's etc. would only make a C63 ~90k here not the ~180k. Merc (and BMW/Audi) add a big '**** you Australia' profit margin, because they can. They obviously sell enough to make them happy at a price that's ******* great profit for them.

It's even 'worse' on the next range up. E63/M5/RS6 we see 250k here, they're 80k US.

If that profit is indeed made, I can assure you it isn't seen at dealership level! I suspect that when you calculate import excise, duties and LCT, you may find the lions share of the difference is there rather than lining some DP's pocket.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Would it be cheaper to buy a new C63 in England and pay any duty levied to import it into Australia?

I have looked into doing similar a few years ago. From what I remember, you need to have owned the car in England for a year to get import approval.

I have a few Aussie friends living there, but don't trust them enough to 'own' a car on my behalf.....

This is for newer cars, I think it does get a little easier for 15+ year old cars.

Having said that, someone with a little extra cash who is living in the UK could make some decent money buying, owning and importing cars here. I bet the fun police would have restrictions on how many cars you can do.

[RAREV8]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

I have looked into doing similar a few years ago. From what I remember, you need to have owned the car in England for a year to get import approval.

I have a few Aussie friends living there, but don't trust them enough to 'own' a car on my behalf.....

This is for newer cars, I think it does get a little easier for 15+ year old cars.

Having said that, someone with a little extra cash who is living in the UK could make some decent money buying, owning and importing cars here. I bet the fun police would have restrictions on how many cars you can do.

You also have to prove you have used the car too- i.e. your passport would indicate you were out of the country for the minimum period too......its all under the personal import scheme- I have looked long and hard at trying to get a TVR Cerbera Red Rose edition here..........

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by DJR-351

How much does a new C63 cost in the country it was made in ? as Adrenaline points out, you can't compare the $$ worth of one here after all the duties and taxes have been implemented.....

But to those that are willing to pay 2.5 times the price of a GT (in Aust) then yes, it's worth every penny.....

Very good point...you should really only compare the price plus on-roads in the country they are built, converted to Australian money. Of course, having to specially build RHD cars for us here in Australia becauee we can't be trusted with brand new left hand drive cars doesn't make it any easier for the car makers. Couple this with import tariffs and taxes on vehicles over a certain rice to protect our precious fragile car industry and prices shoot through the roof.
"Luxury far tax"? Anyone else remember when it came out and the government discovered to their embarassment that it wouldn't only be fat cat rich guys cars that would get caught in the bracket, but also quite ordinary things like a family Toyota Tarago with a couple of options and some Australian made stuff like an LTD or statesman caprice with a few option boxes ticked?


Isn't personal imports only allowed after spending more than six months living in another country, and then only of cars over a certain age?

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Isn't personal imports only allowed after spending more than six months living in another country, and then only of cars over a certain age?

As pointed out above, you have to own the new car for at least 12 months
in UK and prove that you have been using it via Passport/visa movements.

Cars over 15 years old have much less restriction on them..

[tex]

Originally Posted by data_mine

Harun made the trek down to Temora for the 1000m sprint on the runway yesterday.

IIRC he was doing 23s passes, I did high 24, and some low 25's

Link to the speeds recorded Chris?

Over at Longford the 2011 C63 V max was 226kmh, mine was 239.

[Elks]

If you think they are getting at you with the purchase price, I forgot to mention the Benz also delivers 2.78 timed the maintenance costs as well.

I believe a set of front pads & rotors is just north of $5,500 fitted. Ouch

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by Elks

If you think they are getting at you with the purchase price, I forgot to mention the Benz also delivers 2.78 timed the maintenance costs as well.

I believe a set of front pads & rotors is just north of $5,500 fitted. Ouch

Owch indeed..... That's something not a lot of people will consider in a few years when the car has a few kays under the bonnet and becomes half price. Parts and maintenance will stay the same or go up the older the car gets.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Elks

If you think they are getting at you with the purchase price, I forgot to mention the Benz also delivers 2.78 timed the maintenance costs as well.

I believe a set of front pads & rotors is just north of $5,500 fitted. Ouch

Definitely makes a Brembo package worth looking at....

[data_mine]

Go to Ford Spare for replacements on your FPV, and that 5500 isn't so scary.

For the 6-pots on the GT-P, I priced up spares a while ago, $990 for pads, and ~$1000 each for rotors.

@Tex, sorry the speeds haven't been published yet, only times.

[flappist]

How much is the front left tyre for an XT? $60-$80?

And for a GT? $200-400?

How about A C63? $300-500?

They are all exactly the same; black, round, full of air and sit in the same position on rims made of metal.
There is no difference at all except the profit made by the tyre dealers.

ZOMG!!!!1111!!111!!! that is like 5 times as much. FPV and AMG are such a RIP OFF...........

Or by making that statement would I be indicating that I have no idea whatsoever about the subject and am just babbling like a school kid on an internet forum.......

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by flappist

How much is the front left tyre for an XT? $60-$80?
.

Actually start around $129 but your point is still very valid - perception of value.


A shame that our Falcon continually gets discounted because people refuse to pay full retail.
It seems as though it's an Australian ethos that every car maker should offer their exclusive
products at a discount price just so that more people can afford them, is that the aim of
a manufacturers like MB or are their goals to maintain exclusivity and desirability of product.
People that like certain expensive cars and are prepared to pay the price, why should that change.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Stefan

My understanding is that unlike our FPVs being a falcon shell with go fast bit bolted on retrospectively, the C63 has it's own body shell and no interchangeable parts with a C-class Merc.

Someone might be able to confirm this.

Incorrect. The shell and most panels are the same, bigger guards front and rear and different front and rear bars, skirts etc.

But front suspension is different, and front and rear tracks are wider.

[data_mine]

Originally Posted by jpd80

is that the aim of
a manufacturers like MB or are their goals to maintain exclusivity and desirability of product.

lol. C and E class are taxi's in Europe (as are BMWs/Audios etc. and Falcon/Commodores here). There's nothing exclusive about them. They're only exclusive here because of the premium price they make them.

and I'm sure the aim of any manufacturer is to make more profit. The Euro's here have figured more profit from higher priced low volume sales is the go. Ford/Holden/the Asian makers, have figured low profit high volume is the go.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by data_mine

lol. C and E class are taxi's in Europe (as are BMWs/Audios etc. and Falcon/Commodores here). There's nothing exclusive about them. They're only exclusive here because of the premium price they make them.

C63 has a lot of changes over a regular C Class, I think that makes it exclusive and exotic....

and I'm sure the aim of any manufacturer is to make more profit. The Euro's here have figured more profit from higher priced low volume sales is the go. Ford/Holden/the Asian makers, have figured low profit high volume is the go.

I know that Ford USA has increased average transaction prices by reducing entry strippers and asking more
for much better appointed small cars, maybe local manufacturers should take a leaf out of their book..

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by tex

Link to the speeds recorded Chris?

Over at Longford the 2011 C63 V max was 226kmh, mine was 239.

Since when could you buy a KB blown BF GT off the showroom floor
Was said C63 standard?

[data_mine]

Originally Posted by jpd80

C63 has a lot of changes over a regular C Class, I think that makes it exclusive and exotic....

FPV and HSV make plenty of changes to the taxi spec too.

The only thing exotic about the AMG/M/RS* is the price premium WE get but nowhere else in the first world gets.

I know that Ford USA has increased average transaction prices by reducing entry strippers and asking more
for much better appointed small cars, maybe local manufacturers should take a leaf out of their book..

What more would you add to a XT? They're already pretty well equipped for a fleet/taxi model. Ford wants private buyers getting into a XR6 or G6.


*it's not just the Euro's either. a R35 GT-R is more than double the US price here. And Nissan have to convert them to LHD, and ship them further to the US.