Ford Australia public affairs director Sinead Phipps told Drive: “We have no plans to

[Shonky.]

Originally Posted by Jason[98.EL]

thanks for clearing it up russ


Just a thought here russ

maybe we could use the moderated thread for topics that are only hearsay with no news artical to back them up

going from memory that thread/sub forum needs to have all the post's checked from yourself or other admin

now that you have a contact at Ford Au before the thread is posted you can check out the riliability of what the person is trying to post up I know that it will make more work you guys but it should keep things at bay till you can look into them

Jason

I think some of the biggest nuggets of gold (in terms of info) come from the public domain. There seem to be a few guys on here who have feelers out there. Wouldn't want to stifle this

If people who actually don't know anything factual could just ensure they frame what they say as being an opinion, a guess, or something they have been told then open discussion should be healthy.

It is every members responsibility to filter what they read accordingly and decide for themselves. Open discussion is an important part of being able to do so (I believe)

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by RASER

Who is doing the figures at HQ?

$40 million, bet they wish now they never did that now

At a high exchange rate, they could AND SHOULD have [like they will in the future] just imported the 5.8 SuperCharged V8 from the Mustang Shelby GT500

Would have cost bugger all v the $40 million wasted.

Perhaps the 5.8 Supercharged donk will find a home in a limited edition Falcon coming out in the future........

GT-HO? With a pair of Recaro seats front and back. Single nut locking wheels from FPR's. A huge wing, front splitter, and a spartan interior. No touchscreen, no cd player, no aircon. Sports Steering Wheel. Huge brakes. Electronically adjustable suspension with ride control settings. Manual Only.

I can dream.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by csv8

What I meant was, people know what a Fairmont is..ask anyone, do you know what a G6 or G6E is,and you will get a blank look...

I can understand what you're implying however would keeping old names have resulted in maintaining sales? I can't see how. You go to Ford dealer to buy a Fairmont, they say it's now a G6E with higher specs then a Fairmont ever had. The problem is getting a buyer to consider a large car and then to visit a Ford dealer. The overall large car market is shrinking and I feel it's not the name but rather the segment's decline which has been huge followed by reduced Falcon model choices which has hurt. I think we all forget that Falcon outsold Commodore when it had a clear advantage over it, be that interior size or better economy. There isn't a huge difference now apart from 2 biggies, V8 and no wagon which if removed from Holden's sales would look exactly like Falcon's numbers. Could it just be that Falcon's numbers are the best it can achieve given what is on offer?

[Vantag]

The October 2011 edition of Motor magazine detailed Prodrive's development of an uprated GT model. I gather this is the car being released in October 2012. The new GT model lapped Winton Motor Raceway nearly 3 and a half seconds faster than the current GT model.

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by RASER

Who is doing the figures at HQ?

$40 million, bet they wish now they never did that now

At a high exchange rate, they could AND SHOULD have [like they will in the future] just imported the 5.8 SuperCharged V8 from the Mustang Shelby GT500

Would have cost bugger all v the $40 million wasted.

Because the 5.8 is based of the old 5.4 block, and the 5.0 is an all new version of the old modular series.

Not mention, that FPV would then have to be on the waiting list for it...


So, FPV took fords newest enigne, built there own with local parts, built specifically for our needs and didn't have to wait. And as a plus, as this is a new engine, the devlopment will be continued for alot longer then the old 5.4...

Plus, there was talk of FPV selling them back to the US.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by csv8

and I sya again bring back Fairmont and Fairmont Ghia..but cann't use Ghia. Titanaium.. Titanium makes more sense than G6E.. Buyers know what they are..Just like BMW buyers know what a 3/5/7etc series are

I COMPLETETY disagree.. Fairmont & Farimont Gia are crap & shoud not be brought back for any reason!!

[Chilliman]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

I COMPLETETY disagree.. Fairmont & Farimont Gia are crap & shoud not be brought back for any reason!!

Can't bring back anything with 'Ghia' as I'm pretty sure Ford no longer own the rights to that name?

[nstg8a]

titanium sounds more modern than ghia, and is already used in other ford models so its really a no brainer for there to be a titanium spec falcon at some point in time.

[Chopped]

I see plenty of G6s (&Es) on the road. Seems to have been accepted by the market to me.

It's great to see Ford listening to the forum users.
Can we ask our Ford contact when the V12 Diesel GTHO Coupe Wagon is coming ?

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by Chopped

I see plenty of G6s (&Es) on the road. Seems to have been accepted by the market to me.

It's great to see Ford listening to the forum users.
Can we ask our Ford contact when the V12 Diesel GTHO Coupe Wagon is coming ?

They come nowhere selling near what Futura did, let alone Futura, Fairmont and Fairmont Ghia. Good to see discussion of XR8 return - premium and performance is the future of large sedans - not sales disasters like Ecoboost. Hopefully also return of V8 Falcon sales to farming and mining communities which disappeared overnight when V8s became the sole domain of a handful of metropolitan FPV dealers.

[Falcman0o7]

You are loved FORD!

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Brazen

They come nowhere selling near what Futura did, let alone Futura, Fairmont and Fairmont Ghia. Good to see discussion of XR8 return - premium and performance is the future of large sedans - not sales disasters like Ecoboost. Hopefully also return of V8 Falcon sales to farming and mining communities which disappeared overnight when V8s became the sole domain of a handful of metropolitan FPV dealers.

Based on a total % of Falcon sales G6, G6E and turbo have absolutely smashed the % of XT, Futura, Fairmont and Ghia. XT made up 40% of BFII sales, Futura, Fairmont and Ghia were like 10%. With FG the G series made up 40%, with the XT around 5-10%.

You have got it so wrong its not funny. The switch to G series has been a massive success for Ford, cause its the more up spec cars they are now selling. The reason the numbers are down has nothing to do with the name switch, its people wanting SUV's and small cars, nothing to do with Ford dropping a few names and replacing with something else.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Based on a total % of Falcon sales G6, G6E and turbo have absolutely smashed the % of XT, Futura, Fairmont and Ghia. XT made up 40% of BFII sales, Futura, Fairmont and Ghia were like 10%. With FG the G series made up 40%, with the XT around 5-10%.

You have got it so wrong its not funny. The switch to G series has been a massive success for Ford, cause its the more up spec cars they are now selling. The reason the numbers are down has nothing to do with the name switch, its people wanting SUV's and small cars, nothing to do with Ford dropping a few names and replacing with something else.

With fleets moving away from XT and others, there has been no corresponding increase in premium Falcons, do you even look at the numbers?? They are barely selling over 900 Falcons a month. What is a G6? Ask your neighbour? Ask your accountant, ask your doctor? Falcon has fallen out of the top 20 and you are looking at percentages?

Honestly how many G-series did they sell last month? Percentages mean stuff all, how many did they sell? Hey, here is an idea!!! Ford should stop selling XR and XT then G series will be 100% of Falcon sales!! Success, Falcon is saved! Give me a break....

The fact is Ford's premium strategy is not working, whether you like the name or not the G Series name has no traction in the market, the G series was an oppurtunity to consolidate LTD, Fairlane, Fairmont Ghia, Fairmont and Futura buyers into the next generation of large luxury sedan buyers with a new and sophisticated status-driven sedan range. Sure Hertz and silver service cabs love them but the market doesn't care. Ford once again builds a new brand on the market with absolutely pathetic, penny pinching brand building - the shocking sales position of Falcon is once again proof that if you are going to do something, you have to do it right.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by Brazen

With fleets moving away from XT and others, there has been no corresponding increase in premium Falcons, do you even look at the numbers?? They are barely selling over 900 Falcons a month. What is a G6? Ask your neighbour? Ask your accountant, ask your doctor? Falcon has fallen out of the top 20 and you are looking at percentages?

Honestly how many G-series did they sell last month? Percentages mean stuff all, how many did they sell? Hey, here is an idea!!! Ford should stop selling XR and XT then G series will be 100% of Falcon sales!! Success, Falcon is saved! Give me a break....

The fact is Ford's premium strategy is not working, whether you like the name or not the G Series name has no traction in the market, the G series was an oppurtunity to consolidate LTD, Fairlane, Fairmont Ghia, Fairmont and Futura buyers into the next generation of large luxury sedan buyers with a new and sophisticated status-driven sedan range. Sure Hertz and silver service cabs love them but the market doesn't care. Ford once again builds a new brand on the market with absolutely pathetic, penny pinching brand building - the shocking sales position of Falcon is once again proof that if you are going to do something, you have to do it right.

Do you (OR ANYONE) honestly believe Falcon is selling only 1000 units each month because we don’t have names in the line up like Fairmont Ghia, Fairmont?? Come on, you're a smarter person than that!!

[pottery beige]

next to a BA in traffic yesterday.. wearing Fairmont Ghia badges.. looked so dated just didnt look right to me..

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Honestly how many G-series did they sell last month? Percentages mean stuff all, how many did they sell? Hey, here is an idea!!! Ford should stop selling XR and XT then G series will be 100% of Falcon sales!! Success, Falcon is saved! Give me a break....

Berlina and Calais are selling less now than 12months ago, let alone 4 years ago. they are selling a fraction of what they sold 4 years ago.

clearly these names are not working



you my friend are a first class....

Originally Posted by Joe5619

Come on, you're a smarter person than that!!

i think you are giving way too much credit.

[prydey]

someone should warn hyundai that changing model names is a bad idea...

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by Brazen

The fact is Ford's premium strategy is not working, whether you like the name or not the G Series name has no traction in the market, the G series was an oppurtunity to consolidate LTD, Fairlane, Fairmont Ghia, Fairmont and Futura buyers into the next generation of large luxury sedan buyers with a new and sophisticated status-driven sedan range. .

IF its not working. how come are more buyers opting to buy a G6 (Futura/fairmont) then a XT?

The facts are there, forget sales numbers, percentages do the talking.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by Nikked

as a plus, as this is a new engine, the devlopment will be continued for alot longer then the old 5.4...

It would continue as long as there was a Falcon to put it into. Surely even then they had to know Falcon's future was not exactly bright?

Plus, there was talk of FPV selling them back to the US.

When has Ford AU sold ANYTHING back to the US?

Whoever put the business case together for this engine did a poor job... dont get me wrong, its a good motor, but if the beancounters had been on the ball, they wouldnt have relied on potential exports and HSV-like sales figures simply to break even.

[RASER]

Originally Posted by b0son

It would continue as long as there was a Falcon to put it into. Surely even then they had to know Falcon's future was not exactly bright?



When has Ford AU sold ANYTHING back to the US?

Whoever put the business case together for this engine did a poor job... dont get me wrong, its a good motor, but if the beancounters had been on the ball, they wouldnt have relied on potential exports and HSV-like sales figures simply to break even.

+1

Built a good engine, but not a patch on the 5.8 SuperCharged ShelbGT they could have had, and US FOMOCO would have picked up the tab.

The could spend some of that $40mil. making a decent bench seat in the ute [was superior in the older models]

[prydey]

Originally Posted by b0son

Whoever put the business case together for this engine did a poor job... dont get me wrong, its a good motor, but if the beancounters had been on the ball, they wouldnt have relied on potential exports and HSV-like sales figures simply to break even.

FORD just can't win on here. people whinge when beancounters cause cutbacks and now people whinge because the beancounters didn't stop a $40million expense

hard to please some people. pretty sure every single person who has bought one will be glad Ford/FPV spent the money.

[FPV GTHO]

Ford spent something like $50 million just to upgrade the Romeo plant to build the GT500 engine. Who knows the development cost. I'm willing to bet the unit price would be considerably larger than Miami. If they made a mistake it was assuming more people would be buying the cars after so many months not on sale. If they would've gone got the GT500 engine they wouldn't have been able to get the alloy 5.8 straight away either, they would've had to take the 5.4 in the interim and they maybe might have stuck with the iron block still.

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by FPV GTHO

Ford spent something like $50 million just to upgrade the Romeo plant to build the GT500 engine. Who knows the development cost. I'm willing to bet the unit price would be considerably larger than Miami. If they made a mistake it was assuming more people would be buying the cars after so many months not on sale. If they would've gone got the GT500 engine they wouldn't have been able to get the alloy 5.8 straight away either, they would've had to take the 5.4 in the interim and they maybe might have stuck with the iron block still.

Exactly!

FPV wouldn't have just spent 40mill on a whim...but experts like Razor seem to think that they know more then Ford.


Given that the GT500 has only just gone on sale, FPV would not of been able to get there hands on any 5.8's...besides that, i doubt that the 5.8 was even on the drawing board when FPV started developing the Miami.

And there is/was always a chance of a N/A coyote appearing, so it makes more sense to have the one engine with two variations, rather then a stand alone engine just for FPV.

I don't see how the 5.8 could have ever been realistic choice?

So its a shame that a few members here have to drag Ford/FPV's name through mud just because they cant get a > 29grand F250 with a bench seat and 5.8....bloody Galahs...

[b0son]

Originally Posted by prydey

people whinge when beancounters cause cutbacks and now people whinge because the beancounters didn't stop a $40million expense

fair point. though you'd surely see the idiocy of green-lighting $40mil for a niche product, but not green-lighting even a tenth of that to advertise the entire model lineup?

[nstg8a]

Originally Posted by b0son

fair point. though you'd surely see the idiocy of green-lighting $40mil for a niche product, but not green-lighting even a tenth of that to advertise the entire model lineup?

on that point i agree 100%

fords advertising is woeful, and i challenge anyone to prove otherwise.

as much as i tried seeing the bright side of fords advertising, well i cant, its simply ineffective.

[Nikked]

...Ford's advertising (of the falcon)...


Its quite a baffling subject, im not sure if they just arn't bothered in a segment that is shrinking, or they believe the falcon sells on its own merits and history...

The FPV ads are good, dispite the "old fart" driving them...

[nstg8a]

im not a fan of the latest fpv ad, but at least its something, its getting the brand on the telly, as you say nikked, its baffling what fords marketig plans are with the falcon.

seems the only time i see falcon ads is when its a runout sale.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

Do you (OR ANYONE) honestly believe Falcon is selling only 1000 units each month because we don’t have names in the line up like Fairmont Ghia, Fairmont?? Come on, you're a smarter person than that!!

I saw a Mitsubishi 380 and thought the same thing too.

Yes and I am smarter than that, the problem with G6 and co is the lack of brand building. I don't care what the name is, you have to support it in the market -especially when you are supposed to be after private buyers. I still remember a poster on here who thought a G6 was the LPG I6 engine option. The names mean nothing to the market - because Ford doesn't have the resources to tell people about it. It was foolish to go down this path knowing they could never do it properly. I still think there is a common misconception that the luxury sedan buying public logs into Fordforums every day to see where a G6E fits in the lineup.

Like Ford bringing back the Taurus name in the US - even though it had a shocking image as a cut-price rental car, having people know the car exists is half the battle.

[Nikked]

the thing is...

Its now commonly a Falcon G6...not a "Fairmont"... Its less confusing then:

"I own a Fairmont"

Whats that?

"Well, its a falcon, but its not"

It's alot easier now, we have the Falcon XT, G6 or XR...instead of Fairmont, Futura, etc...

[nstg8a]

except now they dont even put falcon badges on them...