FPV DECIMATED the HSV!

[NAK302]

Originally Posted by Blueford260

Go down to your local Ford dealer and put a deposit down on a XR8

i can't go backwards

[NAK302]

Originally Posted by futura

Ebay auction. Build numbers 1 and 500 are up for sale.

nah, it's ok, i've moved on

[LooLoo18]

Originally Posted by grey_esp

looking forward to the xr8 sprint :-)

What XR8 Sprint? Have I missed something?

[40RDT]

So the first time these two were tested the GTF was measured in normal conditions (no overboost) and with this test they made sure that GTF was measured in optimal conditions when the transient overboost function or whatever its called was in effect to give the GTF a better number?

[rancidpunx]

^Thats about the bones of it although BOTH dynos of the retest had the GTF infront even before reaching the peak numbers. The first test was fishy right from the beginning when they released the teaser video of the HSV not strapped down tight hence the uproar. Initially the HSV showed more than expected and the FPV less. The new test has them right on the money of real world results around the country. The GTF should be showing around 10-15rwkw more than a 335 with the 4% additional power which is bang on looking at the testing numbers.

[40RDT]

Kinda crazy that there has been so much emphasis put on peak power numbers on a dyno haha, black top numbers is where its at

I would hardly call 5% or so more peak power on a dyno reading as being "decimated" though

[MercurySilver]

thread number 563.............

[futura]

Originally Posted by 40RDT

Kinda crazy that there has been so much emphasis put on peak power numbers on a dyno haha, black top numbers is where its at

I would hardly call 5% or so more peak power on a dyno reading as being "decimated" though

So 19 rwkw average more power than the GTS is not being "Decimated" ?

[SensationFG8]

I think the decimation comes from the paper versus real world numbers.

On paper it's a 79kW advantage to the GTS.

Real world it's a 19kW advantage to the GT-F

That's a 98kW turn around = decimation.

Edit: Holden got greedy with the GTS badge IMO. They probably should've badged it at 380 or something like that.

[Alan D Segal]

It isn't decimated. But it is a win in that test. I agree actual race wins is a better gauge of the faster car. Get 'em out at a drag strip and have the same driver run each 10 or more times and see what the bests are. Both Autos and both cars on the same day at the same track with the same driver.

Even if they do that the 'losing' side will still whinge. Probably why nobody bothers.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Alan D Segal

When you consider that Ford drivers and their passengers generally weigh around 20-30% less than those in Holdens/HSVs, the improvement in real-world driving experience offered by the power-to-weight of the FPV over the HSV becomes even more apparent!

Well, yes I guess if you can afford a GTS you can afford to eat well.

But the GTF will also have to carry an engineer in the boot or glove compartment just in case, so that should negate the HSV owners indulgence.

[Alan D Segal]

No ford drivers just spend their spare $20k on gym memberships lol.

Edit: They don't really.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by 40RDT

So the first time these two were tested the GTF was measured in normal conditions (no overboost) and with this test they made sure that GTF was measured in optimal conditions when the transient overboost function or whatever its called was in effect to give the GTF a better number?

Pretty much, but don't let the truth get in the way of a good story.

Problem is, it took the presence of a Ford engineer to get that number, whats the average joe gonna do when his GTF is run on the dyno in the engineers absence???

The first tests weren't fudged, the problem is to get the maximum from the vehicle you need to be a bit more educated than a dyno tuner who does it for a living.
Enter Ford engineer and it all comes together.

None of it will matter anyway because history shows that these two will find their way around Mt Panorama together at some stage, its the Aussie way and all the killerwasps in the world wont count for **** then.

[Peter B - CV8]

Originally Posted by futura

So 19 rwkw average more power than the GTS is not being "Decimated" ?

Personally I wouldn't call that difference a "decimation". "Outperformed" perhaps - or "has the edge" 19rwkw is diddly squat when you consider the overall outputs of both cars & the average driver probably wouldn't even feel the difference.

[futura]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Well, yes I guess if you can afford a GTS you can afford to eat well.

But the GTF will also have to carry an engineer in the boot or glove compartment just in case, so that should negate the HSV owners indulgence.

I dont have to worry about carry an Engineer in my boot. I am an Engineer..

[Alan D Segal]

Originally Posted by Peter B - CV8

19rwkw is diddly squat when you consider the overall outputs of both cars & the average driver probably wouldn't even feel the difference.

Yeah but it is still 19rwkw that the GTS is supposed to have. It is supposed to have more power than the GT F and it doesn't. As others have pointed out this is an issue HSV fans and owners will have with the car, and while it isn't a 'decimation' in terms of measured performance, the real damage goes to their pride.

Edit: I can understand it. I'd be salty if I believed the marketing and paid a premium for a car that was supposed to be the most powerful Australian built car and dyno testing showed that the rival marque's cheaper, smaller-engined alternative actually puts out more at the wheels.

[futura]

Originally Posted by Peter B - CV8

Personally I wouldn't call that difference a "decimation". "Outperformed" perhaps - or "has the edge" 19rwkw is diddly squat when you consider the overall outputs of both cars & the average driver probably wouldn't even feel the difference.

"Decimated" was used in the Video by Wheels! If 19 rwkw average is not "Decimated" over a vehicle claiming 430 KW, tell us what is?

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Alan D Segal

No ford drivers just spend their spare $20k on gym memberships lol.

Edit: They don't really.

They should, if they stop eating and exercise hourly the seats wont crack...

You know, all jokes aside, the sad bit is it will all be finished in a few years and all well have is memories.
Sure both Marque's will have their hero car but it wont be the same.

My name on the title of either would be enough, to be honest if you owned either of them why would you be in a hurry to get anywhere.
I'd rather enjoy the journey than be the first out of the car.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by futura

So 19 rwkw average more power than the GTS is not being "Decimated" ?

average of what... average of runs where we know the overboost worked, or the real world average where the overboost in many/most cases did not?

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by futura

I dont have to worry about carry an Engineer in my boot. I am an Engineer..

Yes, but your missing the most important part of the title....FORD engineer...

[Alan D Segal]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

You know, all jokes aside, the sad bit is it will all be finished in a few years and all well have is memories.
Sure both Marque's will have their hero car but it wont be the same.

My name on the title of either would be enough, to be honest if you owned either of them why would you be in a hurry to get anywhere.
I'd rather enjoy the journey than be the first out of the car.

Sounds like a holden fan trying to use the 'both cars are good but' excuse

I'm not a core enthusiast so I don't want either now (even if I could afford it). You're looking at the best of a dead breed. I'd prefer to put my money into a car that, when I'm done with it, some younger person wants because they aspire to own the new one someday.

[futura]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Yes, but your missing the most important part of the title....FORD engineer...

Do you know who I am?

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Alan D Segal

Yeah but it is still 19rwkw that the GTS is supposed to have. It is supposed to have more power than the GT F and it doesn't. As others have pointed out this is an issue HSV fans and owners will have with the car, and while it isn't a 'decimation' in terms of measured performance, the real damage goes to their pride.

Edit: I can understand it. I'd be salty if I believed the marketing and paid a premium for a car that was supposed to be the most powerful Australian built car and dyno testing showed that the rival marque's cheaper, smaller-engined alternative actually puts out more at the wheels.

But it is the most powerful.

If both engines were run on an engine dyno the 6.2l would win.
The engine creates the power.

What is lost through the driveline is irrelevant, one vehicle is built for collectability and normal driving, the other is purpose built to handle a flogging and come back for more.

HSV needed 430kw to make the GTS a winner, using a smaller capacity engine like the Miami would have killed its overall performance.

If you dropped the Miami into the HSV and ran it on a dyno through the GTS' driveline how do you think it would go?

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by futura

Do you know who I am?

In Sydney?

[futura]

Originally Posted by b0son

average of what... average of runs where we know the overboost worked, or the real world average where the overboost in many/most cases did not?

What do you mean? Really dont not understand what point you are making? Suggest you Watch the Video again mate.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Alan D Segal

Sounds like a holden fan trying to use the 'both cars are good but' excuse

I'm not a core enthusiast so I don't want either now (even if I could afford it). You're looking at the best of a dead breed. I'd prefer to put my money into a car that, when I'm done with it, some younger person wants because they aspire to own the new one someday.

Not at all, I appreciate both vehicles for what they are and have said repeatedly that they are not direct competitors.

I would gladly own either and not care less what the other can do, but that doesn't mean that I don't understand why one would beat the other.

What is sad is that the greatest GT of all, the GTF, has been relegated to a dyno queen because a handful of diehards with blinkers on need it to win something against a vehicle which is in another league.

[40RDT]

Originally Posted by futura

So 19 rwkw average more power than the GTS is not being "Decimated" ?

No not really, for me decimated = large proportion

[b0son]

Originally Posted by futura

What do you mean?

The run was done to ensure maximum overboost, no? So the reality is it doesn't decimate the GTA at all in the real world, because you cant guarantee that you will get the right conditions most of the time.

[HULK_I6T]

How does the torque compare?

[anto]

Originally Posted by 40RDT

No not really, for me decimated = large proportion