1200 ford workers to be stood down without pay tonight

[nugget378]

Originally Posted by CAT600

What needs to happen is people (generally) need to harden up and when they go to work, do their job without worrying about who's getting what or what's happening on the weekend. Young people in general are a disgrace and have no backbone. The world will be a sorry place in the next 20 years or so, as people want the high living standard's but want to do nothing for it.

Dead right young people have to harden up and have no backbone.
Our forefathers who fought and died for a way of life would be rolling in their grave at how generations today are being spoon fed all this crap and just taking it,selling out conditions and a way of life that thousands died for, for nothing.
Unions have been subverted by employers with government for years,have been bribed and cajoled and threatened into impotence,then the same "interests" that did this feed us the line through the media (that they have bought and payed for) that unions are corrupt and are not needed in "our new economic climate"
right now is when we need them the most.
If only their were 10,000 young people with backbone to put their boots on and stand beside some of us today,we could take back our birthright..

[[Tonko]]

Originally Posted by CAT600

In the current economic environment, anybody that is worth their salt will have a job already lined up. You cannot get staff these days (let alone good staff) so it stands to reason that if the employers treat workers unfairly or below par on their conditions, they'll walk. 10 years ago at the mining dealership I worked at, if somebody pulled the pin, everybody in the place knew about it and went into a flat spin. Thesedays, it's a daily occurance. There is no loyalty or character in people anymore and employees will walk for 50c/hr or a rough word said.

Bleh, Turn it up.
You cant find good workers? I have been looking for ANY full time work for over a year now, but instead am stuck with 3 jobs and 70+hrs a week!
Most employers would prefer to hire their mates kid or whoever knows them than actually do some leg work and a few interviews/trials.
Mate, i have handed out probably 100 resumes in 12 months, and have been called in for an interview maybe 10 times.
Im at the stage of my life where i want a decent job and start savings etc. but no employer wants to train people.
Pfft, I'm over it. I'd prefer to be taxed out the *** than put up with a character bashing, dissmissive person like yourself. Maybe its YOUR attitude?
-Noel.

[CAT600]

Originally Posted by TonkoXR8

Bleh, Turn it up.
You cant find good workers? I have been looking for ANY full time work for over a year now, but instead am stuck with 3 jobs and 70+hrs a week!
Most employers would prefer to hire their mates kid or whoever knows them than actually do some leg work and a few interviews/trials.
Mate, i have handed out probably 100 resumes in 12 months, and have been called in for an interview maybe 10 times.
Im at the stage of my life where i want a decent job and start savings etc. but no employer wants to train people.
Pfft, I'm over it. I'd prefer to be taxed out the *** than put up with a character bashing, dissmissive person like yourself. Maybe its YOUR attitude?
-Noel.

Unreal! This is where the problem starts. What people term as a "decent job" is not what it was 10-20 years ago. Everybody wants the 'creme de la creme' and nothing less will do. If I had to, I would shovel for a living if thats what it took to support my family.

I do not know what line of work you are in, and I do not presume to know/judge you or your work ethic, but I will say this: If you (personally) have been around, and are a good hand, you should have no problem getting a job anywhere in this country at the moment. There is 3-4% unemployment ATM and about 5% of the workforce don't want to work so we actually have too many jobs. I never hire extended family/friends - dosent work, so count me out on that one.

My comments relate to young people (school leavers onwards), so back to that:

There are many young people these days who, if they cannot get a job as a rocket scientist straight out of school, will just lay on a beach and do SFA. I've got mates that finished their time as a Plant Mechanic (some did'nt even finish) and either got on a plane to Europe or jumped in a panel van to go around Australia for the next 3-4 years. Most of them have Dad's who:

1) Are Farmers
2) Own their own Diesel Fitting service
3) Own Thier own Plant and Equipment Hire company
4) Don't want to work and only got a trade because they were told to get something "to fall back on later in life" What a F*%king joke.

GET OFF YOUR *** AND MAKE IT HAPPEN!

Forge your own destiny, that's what life is all about.

Daniel

[CAT600]

Just noticed your profile. Priceless.

Originally Posted by TonkoXR8

Birthday:
April 2, 1987

Biography:
nah, cant think of anything

Location:
In hell...a.k.a Shepparton

Interests:
bludging

Occupation:
I hate them...

Maybe YOUR attitude required adjustment huh?

Daniel

[ltd]

Cat 600, good points mate but one suggestion I'd make is to get those doing national service to go without a large part of their wage in order to pay for the homes being developed. When they finish national service they could then move in to a home they already have equity in.
Then, you wouldn't have the dysfunctional communities out west, you'd have young people trained in respect and discipline which would then allow the young to invest in their future. Furthermore, you would break the cycle of welfare dependent families in lieu of families with a sense of self worth and motivation. To the hand wringers this seems extreme but you only have to look in housing commission areas to see the kind of feral kids bred by 3rd generation welfare families were nobody works.

[CAT600]

Originally Posted by ltd

Cat 600, good points mate but one suggestion I'd make is to get those doing national service to go without a large part of their wage in order to pay for the homes being developed. When they finish national service they could then move in to a home they already have equity in.
Then, you wouldn't have the dysfunctional communities out west, you'd have young people trained in respect and discipline which would then allow the young to invest in their future. Furthermore, you would break the cycle of welfare dependent families in lieu of families with a sense of self worth and motivation. To the hand wringers this seems extreme but you only have to look in housing commission areas to see the kind of feral kids bred by 3rd generation welfare families were nobody works.

Could not agree more with your ideas of forced equity. Young peoples lack of respect and commitment will be the undoing of the western world.

Daniel

[sleekism]

Look as a young person I think it would be fair to raise some points.

1) NATIONAL SERVICE DOESN'T WORK!!! My grandfather did national service in the 50's and they were drunk the whole time. You try instructing people who dont want to be there.

2) I had to leave home when I was 18 and it's shite. Me and my missus both work full time and bills just seem to come from everywhere. And there is no incentive to work more as if I work overtime I get more tax, if I work two jobs I get more tax. If I had my choice I would love to live at home.

3) Howards own inquiry has shown people are worse off under workchoices,

4) America is a disciplined nation with a first class society......WTF.....speaks for itself

5)If you dont like Unions then move to Cjina and go work in a sweatshop.

6)So what if employees jump ship for more money?? Companies jump nations for more money they have no loyalty.

7) I would love to own a house but the economic climate is shite. Sure I am making more money than my parents did and interest rates ate low but that means jack shite. My parents didn't need a mortgage they bought a 100 acres outright for 20 grand and my dad was only a labourer.

But I do agree Welfare needs to be fixed. Instead of work for the dole give people are damn job. stop pointless TAFE classes and get some trades going. Centrelink is a overlycomplex and stupid system. the Dole use the money to make jobs.

[ltd]

Originally Posted by sleekism

Look as a young person I think it would be fair to raise some points.

1) NATIONAL SERVICE DOESN'T WORK!!! My grandfather did national service in the 50's and they were drunk the whole time. You try instructing people who dont want to be there.

2) I had to leave home when I was 18 and it's shite. Me and my missus both work full time and bills just seem to come from everywhere. And there is no incentive to work more as if I work overtime I get more tax, if I work two jobs I get more tax. If I had my choice I would love to live at home.

3) Howards own inquiry has shown people are worse off under workchoices,

4) America is a disciplined nation with a first class society......WTF.....speaks for itself

5)If you dont like Unions then move to Cjina and go work in a sweatshop.

6)So what if employees jump ship for more money?? Companies jump nations for more money they have no loyalty.

7) I would love to own a house but the economic climate is shite. Sure I am making more money than my parents did and interest rates ate low but that means jack shite. My parents didn't need a mortgage they bought a 100 acres outright for 20 grand and my dad was only a labourer.

But I do agree Welfare needs to be fixed. Instead of work for the dole give people are damn job. stop pointless TAFE classes and get some trades going. Centrelink is a overlycomplex and stupid system. the Dole use the money to make jobs.

Sleekism,

1/ National service does work. All the people I know who did national service say it was the difference between being a criminal and man. Most of those guys went on to become successful leaders in business and politics. If your grandfather was drunk all the time, he might have a problem with alcohol.

2/ Welcome to the real world. It aint all beer and skittles. Just like you, businesses face the same problems with taxes and multiple bills.

3/ Rubbish

4/ America does not have national service, which is what was discussed. America does have however police and judges who represent the people as opposed to representing criminals. There is a greater sense of respect as opposed to the anarchy which is most of Australia.

5/ Why should I? Unions only represent 17.5% of the workforce, the majority of 82.5% should have more say than the unionised workforce. Why don't you go to communist china?

6/ The only problem here is employees have become complacent, there is so much more job security now compared to the early 90's when there were mass sackings as the economy was in the toilet.

7/ The economy is largely doing well. The fact that we have high house prices has more to do with the states and their lack of releasing land to manipulate the median price. The reason they do this? They levy their taxes as a percentile and ergo 3% of 1 million is much better than 3% of 100,000.

We are agreed on the welfare system, it actually consumes 62% of the federal government revenue.

Nugget, I have experienced unions who came into my fathers workplace and forced everyone out as one employee didn't want to join. Then they stopped the supply of material until he joined. In the end, even offering to pay his union fees on his behalf we had to sack him because it all up cost us over 1.4 million dollars. What did the union do for this guy? Nothing. What did the IRC do for him? Nothing. The south will rise again before you bring back your birthrite (WTF?)

[nugget378]

Originally Posted by ltd

Nugget, I have experienced unions who came into my fathers workplace and forced everyone out as one employee didn't want to join. Then they stopped the supply of material until he joined. In the end, even offering to pay his union fees on his behalf we had to sack him because it all up cost us over 1.4 million dollars. What did the union do for this guy? Nothing. What did the IRC do for him? Nothing. The south will rise again before you bring back your birthrite (WTF?)

Sounds a little loony dont it,just as your national service plans sound loony to others,come on I mean get a grip,since when does someone need national service to become anything,take a young fella and get him digging ditches and mould a man,is that whats supposed to happen?

[ltd]

Originally Posted by nugget378

Sounds a little loony dont it,just as your national service plans sound loony to others,come on I mean get a grip,since when does someone need national service to become anything,take a young fella and get him digging ditches and mould a man,is that whats supposed to happen?

No more loony than your claiming of a birthright through empowering the unions.
As someone who has a little bit of knowledge in the employment of people as well as discipline sufficient to earn a masters as well as an ATPL, I think my position is clear. National service does teach people discipline and self-respect. They don’t dig ditches or drill all day long but they are encouraged to work in a team-building environment and they are also taught self-respect whilst respecting others. Heaven forfend, they are even taught to respect their seniors and the focus on them being more important than anyone else is erased.
You obviously have overlooked everyone else’s contributions for the sake of weighing in to a debate late in the piece and pushing some ridiculously outdated ideology of bosses only there to screw workers creating a vacuum necessitating unions. Unions don’t hold all the answers and frankly, if you ever got the literature of their ill-conceived Manusafe entitlements scheme you too would be worried. That is of course of you could put down the red coloured glasses to look past the union doctrine of extreme paranoia.

[nugget378]

I bet all these small business owners going on about unions havent had one organiser walk through the front door.
And to those saying unions do nothing for you,what have you done to make them better?
There are some real BAD unions out there, the AWU for example,but all the ones I consider bad,I consider as "right wing" or bosses unions.

[CAT600]

Originally Posted by nugget378

I bet all these small business owners going on about unions havent had one organiser walk through the front door.
And to those saying unions do nothing for you,what have you done to make them better?
There are some real BAD unions out there, the AWU for example,but all the ones I consider bad,I consider as "right wing" or bosses unions.

We had TWU through us. "Suggested" everyone join including operations staff and owners. Then when we had a dispute with one employee, we tried to get them to represent us as their members, but they said they would not, and then they rang the former employee and represented them!. Turned out they were wrong once WE called Worksafe in to discuss issue, and we havent seen them in the door since. Hence, I have no respect.

Daniel

[sleekism]

Yes western society is in decay but I would attribute it more to the moral decay of an unashamed consumer based capitalist society rather than the fault of youth. The leaders of th world want a dumb population whos goal is to work and consume. The traditional worship of know ledge has been replaced by a worship of commercialism and will be the undoing of western civilisation. The situation the United States is in now is parallel to what the Roman Empire was in before it collapsed.

Not much has changed:

The Roman Empire faced massive civil unrest and moral degradation.

The Roman Empire faced barbarians on all fronts and an overstretched empire and subsequently began to contract out it's defence to mercenaries (much like the U.S.
with corporations.)

The Roman Empire had an addiction to Chinese products (silk) and the country was on the verge of bankruptcy as the Chinese didn't want Roman products only Gold.

Though admittedly moral decline is nothing new and cyclic in nature just remember the decay of the 20's and also in 16th century Venice it was uheard of a woman not to have both a husband and a few lovers. Even medieval popes engaged in wild orgies.

Sorry to get off track but it seems odd how conservatism and consumerism can go hand in hand. My main concern is that Australia is becoming a "stupid" country just look at the dedication and inteligence of German and Japanese students and you will no what mean (German eschange students can write and spell English better than most Australian)

And yes I do realise the irony that my post is full of spellig errors but Im tired

[Mark351]

Originally Posted by sleekism

Sorry to get off track but it seems odd how conservatism and consumerism can go hand in hand. My main concern is that Australia is becoming a "stupid" country just look at the dedication and inteligence of German and Japanese students and you will no what mean (German eschange students can write and spell English better than most Australian)

And yes I do realise the irony that my post is full of spellig errors but Im tired

Wouldn't dedication and inteligence (sic) propel you to correct your dodgy spellig (sic) despite being tired?

[ltd]

Sleekism, don't believe a word of it. German and Japanese aren't as smart as people think, although I will grant that it is highly probable that people are becoming dumber in Australia. I had a secretary that couldn't spell, and the cryptic messages of people calling was the most infuriating thing since the ATO. Then when I asked her to get people to spell their names if she didn't know how to spell it, I overheard her on the phone saying; "P E T E R". Mind you she was an avid "Big Brother" fan, and is also into all that reality TV shite.

Personally, I think the youth deserve a lot of the blame for societies ills, they have gotten to working age and are semi-illiterate. They aren't curious enough to enquire as to how things work or why things are done that way, they seem to be preoccupied with everything but the task at hand. Look at the flight schools for example. Most of them have closed because it's all too hard for the youth of today. To get anywhere near a high paying job you have to take your lumps in aviation, typically by working for low pay instructing students in order to gain hours, then working at a freight company late at night to gain the 2000 odd hours you need of twin turbine time to be considered for an airline. As a result, we are now facing a pilot shortage. Now,a 747 captain can earn 350K plus per year thanks to supply and demand.

The biggest problem is that the youth want the benefits of their parents now; they want the car now, the property, the clothes etc. And why? Because nobody has ever told them anything other than "You're special, nobody is better than you", no one has ever given them a smack for being bad, no one has ever told them "No". Resultantly, we have a generation of idiots that are highly emotional with a sense of self importance never seen before.

If you are 50, worked hard all your life to get where you are and you have had some 18-20 year old twit tell you that you should retire so they can have your job, then you know what I'm talking about. Honest to God, this happens every day. Literally thousands of bosses are incredulously looking at ways to combat this nefarious attitude, as they too have been tapped on the shoulder and told by someone; "You've had your chance earning good money, now it's my turn". This usually gets the response of, "Do you even understand what the company does, do you honestly think you know what your doing?" "can't be too hard, I'll give it a go". Great, no experience, no qualifications; we'll just give you the company because your teacher told you that you're special.

I know first hand that a lot of this type of attitude develops in the schools (where the teachers union have dictated syllabi to encourage socialist indoctrination of youth, as well as forcing crap like the stolen generation into young minds who later blame us), as well as in the home were parents pay little interest in their children. I also suspect that due to laws prohibiting smacking ones' child we have only emboldened this egocentric attitude. Now, this is not isolated to Australia, this happens all around the world every day.
This is where I believe we are having problems sleekism, and not with capitalism.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by ltd

Personally, I think the youth deserve a lot of the blame for societies ills, they have gotten to working age and are semi-illiterate. They aren't curious enough to enquire as to how things work or why things are done that way, they seem to be preoccupied with everything but the task at hand.

Don't you think its more our governments fault that kids are semi illiterate. Its there job to fund the schools to teach kids how to read and write. Just shows the education system isn't working.

[ltd]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Don't you think its more our governments fault that kids are semi illiterate. Its there job to fund the schools to teach kids how to read and write. Just shows the education system isn't working.

Not really, simply because teaching has become such an easy course to get into, we are getting those not necessarily literate becoming teachers and teaching their bad habits. Also, the teachers have applied their own personal opinions to the classroom, confusing kids further. Rewriting history from Captain Cook's landing to the "Invasion of Australia" only serves to stroke the ego of the insipidly useless. Singing songs about the alleged stolen generation and teaching it to Australians as an irrefutable fact adds to the confusion.

No, teachers and the teachers union have made it impossible to recognise a childs progress in school through a ludicrous marks system which is only based on positive reinforcement, not results based. If you had a child who could not read or write would you be happy with the teacher giving him/her a passing grade in english? Or would you want them to be forthright so you could do something about it? Molly coddling does nothing but ensure that kids are made to feel good even though they may be inept in a particular arena.

Finally, the government does fund schools, and regardless of what the teachers union say the public schools do get the lions share of public funding, but this funding is distributed through the states who are essentially a black hole of inefficiency and incompetence. By the time the funding gets through the states 10 million for one school becomes 5 million with the rest off to consolidated revenue to make up for administration costs and future capital works based on a user pays system akin to double dipping. Then the revenue typically gets siphoned off to consolidated revenue for the purpose of keeping the bloated, inefficient and useless public service rolling along (at a loss mind you).

[sleekism]

Some interesting points raised and I daresay that I agree to a large amount of them but I must admit that I am benefiting from the laziness of youth.

Like you have said there is a skills shortage and I myself am benefiting from the shortage of professional engineers as you seem to benefiting from a skills shortage yourself.

The sad thing is that debates like this seem to be confined to internet forums instead of in the public spotlight like it should be.

[|||]

lol at national service suggestions. by the time kids are that old they either have respect or they dont. you cant teach an old bogan new tricks.

if they're too dumb to work out how to get by in life without help then so be it.

[ltd]

Agree sleekism, although the gap year thing they have now is proving to be really popular with school leavers not sure what they want to do, and it also takes them out of their cushioned, emo lifestyle.

As for |||, they are able to be taught once removed from their support network of home and friends, and they develop new friends who become like minded in life experience. I don't think we should write the whole exercise off because some people believe that a person is unteachable. Think of the military as a correctional school for the nefarious.

[SPK-250]

Sorry to interupt but can someone fill me on with whats going on at the facility in regards to an end in strike action. I have been given till Wednesday off at which point i have to ring a phone number at work to see if i have to turn up on Thursday.

Cheers Guys

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by SPK-383

Sorry to interupt but can someone fill me on with whats going on at the facility in regards to an end in strike action. I have been given till Wednesday off at which point i have to ring a phone number at work to see if i have to turn up on Thursday.

Cheers Guys

Ford are trying to force them back to work through the industrial relations commision today, so you'll just to wait and see. Talks are still going on.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Ford are trying to force them back to work through the industrial relations commision today, so you'll just to wait and see. Talks are still going on.

Lets hope this gets resolved, I pass the car park, every day to get breakfast, where the line workers normally park and its bad to see so many empty spaces.

[The Stylist]

Fifth business day of strike action, I hope something can be resolved soon for all parties involved.

[vztrt]

Well Venture is meant to going back to work tomorrow (Industrial Commission has ordered them, from what I heard).

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Well Venture is meant to going back to work tomorrow (Industrial Commission has ordered them, from what I heard).

Given its effected so many other associated businesses including Ford I wonder ultimately how much this action will end up adding to the cost of a car for consumers...

[4Vman]

This From Ford:


"FORD Australia claims it is losing $11 million a
day as its production lines lie idle while workers
at a leading supplier continue strike action."

So Far its cost just Ford alone $55 million.... and this strike has got nothing to do with Ford. :

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

This From Ford:


"FORD Australia claims it is losing $11 million a
day as its production lines lie idle while workers
at a leading supplier continue strike action."

So Far its cost just Ford alone $55 million.... and this strike has got nothing to do with Ford. :

Considering all the down days they are having the will just cancel them and make them full production days to pick up the slack.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Considering all the down days they are having the will just cancel them and make them full production days to pick up the slack.

Cancel what? the $55 mil is gone.... its not a mater of just picking up the slack to meet orders, while the strike is on and Ford cant produce cars they're still paying all the fixed costs.. you can't get that money back, that is unless you bump up the price of cars to cover it, and guess what, i bet Ford do that, so at the end of the day you and i as consumers will inadvertantly pay for this in some way..

Also what about all the other suppliers to Ford who cant sell parts to Ford? this hurts them too. They loose from this too.

I also bet relationships between Ford and Ventura are very strained.... If i was Ford id make sure they have a secondary alternative supplier for all components where possible so if this happens again they can just go elsewhere..

[irlewy86]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

I also bet relationships between Ford and Ventura are very strained.... If i was Ford id make sure they have a secondary alternative supplier for all components where possible so if this happens again they can just go elsewhere..

And lose the ecconomy of scale of maintaining minnimum suppliers. Much more costly than 5 days down time, unfortunately.