Vfacts November 2018 - Page 3

kevino · 07-12-2018, 03:17 PM

Agree.
Same applies to their car range.

I cant buy a 17 k Fiesta its deleted.

I cant buy a 20/22k on road price Focus its been moved up market and starts at 27k incl on roads.

I need to buy at a 17k /22k price range. If Ford don't offer at that price point they lose me as a customer and I,ve been rusted on for 14 years.

So by being cute and moving up market in price and range … well the next recession could be fatal for Ford. and that would be very sad as they make bloody good vehicles ...safe performing drivers cars.

But in a recession or say in an era of collapsing house prices where people are looking for value propositions (aka lower prices) Ford are going to hurt.

BENT_8 · 07-12-2018, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevino

Agree.
Same applies to their car range.

I cant buy a 17 k Fiesta its deleted.

I cant buy a 20/22k on road price Focus its been moved up market and starts at 27k incl on roads.

I need to buy at a 17k /22k price range. If Ford don't offer at that price point they lose me as a customer and I,ve been rusted on for 14 years.

So by being cute and moving up market in price and range … well the next recession could be fatal for Ford. and that would be very sad as they make bloody good vehicles ...safe performing drivers cars.

But in a recession or say in an era of collapsing house prices where people are looking for value propositions (aka lower prices) Ford are going to hurt.

Thats the issue i had recently, Ford was my first choice as i wanted a Fiesta and only wanted to spend $18k.
My Daughter bought an 09 model recently and its a nice car to drive so i imagine a new one would be even better but unfortunately there was only 1 new example available in Australia and it was a Sport with some pack at $22k driveaway.
So i looked at what else was on offer and couldnt walk past the Kia 7yr warranty, whilst we were there my Wife took a liking to the Sportage and said she'd have one to replace the Terri in a few years.
My Son's just started a new job where he travels much further than his previous job and he's finding his VE to be overkill for what he;s doing so after riding in my Picanto he's keen on a Rio or Cerato as an A to B at a budget with worry free motoring for the life of the loan.

jpd80 · 07-12-2018, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevino

Agree.
Same applies to their car range.

I cant buy a 17 k Fiesta its deleted.

I cant buy a 20/22k on road price Focus its been moved up market and starts at 27k incl on roads.

I need to buy at a 17k /22k price range. If Ford don't offer at that price point they lose me as a customer and I,ve been rusted on for 14 years.

So by being cute and moving up market in price and range … well the next recession could be fatal for Ford. and that would be very sad as they make bloody good vehicles ...safe performing drivers cars.

But in a recession or say in an era of collapsing house prices where people are looking for value propositions (aka lower prices) Ford are going to hurt.

But in saying that the market for car sales has nose dived in the past few months,
I don't think we're heading for recession, just a flattening out of what already is n place.

So to me it's all about Ford growing a set and just taking a chance on some new vehicles,
they've been so risk averse that it turning them into couch potatoes with any segment that
requires a little work and some "push" advertising...that's why Mazda for one has leaped in front.

kevino · 07-12-2018, 06:30 PM

Once was Ford now a Kia.

Yeah Ford bring in some Chinese made Focus with a six speed manual at 19990 and take on the Koreans.

You know Ford Endura is that the best they can do how may circa 50 k suv s are there on the market and with a diesel - diesels will become dinosaurs in passenger vehicles.

jpd80 · 07-12-2018, 07:07 PM

But until then, Ford has another vehicle to sell.....

prydey · 07-12-2018, 07:13 PM

Slightly off topic, but watching the cricket this morning, every time a Toyota ad came on, I found myself wanting to go visit a dealership.... for the same reason I found myself wanting to find some accommodation using trivago during Bathurst.

I don't get the same feeling watching the Ford ads. That Ngaire (sp?) always looks like she's sucked a lemon or something, or trying to be a ventriloquist

But yes, Toyota ads are very easy on the eye.

vztrt · 07-12-2018, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hayseed

The trouble is; If a Customer has to go to Toyota to get a Workshop/Parts chaser Ute. Chances are the Salesman will whiles he's "got him" be able to turn the customer entire Fleet over to being ALL Toyota..

Ford would be losing a fair few Fleet sales by not having a POVO pack 4x2 Ute. In My opinion..

Haha you think a mob buying 30 cars in a go is going to a dealer salesman?

hayseed · 07-12-2018, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vztrt

Haha you think a mob buying 30 cars in a go is going to a dealer salesman?

No I Don't...

I'm thinking more about the Bloke (such as Myself) with 5-7 vehicles...& I usually deal with the Dealer principle...

Dr Smith · 08-12-2018, 05:49 AM

Speaking on Endura, does anyone know when the press start their reports, haven't seen any on transporters or on the road, however you can price one up online.
Priced up a Titanium AWD with every option..$82,751 drive away...wow...Audi Q5, Volvo XC60, BMW X3, CX9/8, Land Rover, Jag, Toureg (old)...about 22 brands in the price range, (say 12 of which I'd consider luxury brand names) according to Carsales in a range I set of $60,000-$80,000. ...you see my point.

**russellw** · 08-12-2018, 10:41 AM

The graphical stats are now uploaded to the Tech portal

Cheers
Russ

jpd80 · 08-12-2018, 10:44 AM

Thanks Russell

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

Speaking on Endura, does anyone know when the press start their reports, haven't seen any on transporters or on the road, however you can price one up online.
Priced up a Titanium AWD with every option..$82,751 drive away...wow...Audi Q5, Volvo XC60, BMW X3, CX9/8, Land Rover, Jag, Toureg (old)...about 22 brands in the price range, (say 12 of which I'd consider luxury brand names) according to Carsales in a range I set of $60,000-$80,000. ...you see my point.

If you look at the prices Ford is commanding for Everest, Mustang, Endura and most of Ranger's 4x4 crew cab volume
it's clear that bits and pieces sales of $20K-$30K vehicles are not really in the picture for the moment...
Fiesta...........1
Focus...........53
Mondeo.......126
Ecosport......122
Escape........343
Everest........472
Mustang......780
Ranger.....3,469

Around 4,700 of Ford's 5,500 sales came from high value vehicles.

Dr Smith · 08-12-2018, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

Thanks Russell

If you look at the prices Ford is commanding for Everest, Mustang, Endura and most of Ranger's 4x4 crew cab volume
it's clear that bits and pieces sales of $20K-$30K vehicles are not really in the picture for the moment...
Fiesta...........1
Focus...........53
Mondeo.......126
Ecosport......122
Escape........343
Everest........472
Mustang......780
Ranger.....3,469

Around 4,700 of Ford's 5,500 sales came from high value vehicles.

While I couldn't argue against that, the Ford vehicles you refer to sit at or near the top of the respective classes and while they charge a premium they are not competing in premium euro territory the way Endura is seemingly going to. For example even I would consider a XC60, Merc GLC, Lexus, CX9/CX8 in that price range over an Endura. In the case of the XC60 you get a good petrol model, award winner even and a perceived cache of a good quality euro for the same or even less that an Endura.

I'm looking forward to local press test drives/reviews because if it's going to ask a Euro premium models price it better back it up. Ford just doesn't have a premium image in Australia. Ranger sells on it's class leading offering, Mustang is an icon on wheels, new Focus is very good, Everest is very good, Transit is very good. I'm a loyal Ford fan (not fanatic) but if I were to shop in that price range a Ford badge has very good company to compete with and as history has shown my fellow Australian buyers when faced with spending at that level and higher don't tend to buy Ford.

prydey · 08-12-2018, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

Everest is very good,

if you look back to the release of Everest, the same concerns were raised, in that it was too expensive. I'm not sure if it still sells at the same price point, or if Ford has altered it over the years, but it does sell consistently around 400 each month.

It sounds like Australia just has to take/accept whatever specification is on offer, which won't please everyone, but should still cater to a fairly broad range of people.

Dr Smith · 09-12-2018, 06:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

if you look back to the release of Everest, the same concerns were raised, in that it was too expensive. I'm not sure if it still sells at the same price point, or if Ford has altered it over the years, but it does sell consistently around 400 each month.

It sounds like Australia just has to take/accept whatever specification is on offer, which won't please everyone, but should still cater to a fairly broad range of people.

They introduced a Trend RWD version. My point is moreso they are playing in the lower price point of quite a few premium Euro vehicles and Australians have shown they will go euro if they can.

jpd80 · 09-12-2018, 07:59 AM

Keep in mind that the Endura was an "easy grab" for Ford as it was just a slightly altered UK Edge 2.0 diesel.
So providing it for Australia was relatively easy as just bundled with RHD market production to that of the Mustang.
A little disappointing that there wan't a 2.0 EB base engine available as I think it may have worked well with the 8AT.

Doc, I understand your concern with the pricing but I've noticed that FoA seems set to go after more premium buyers
and while most cross shoppers would choose Euro instead, the service costs might take the smile of lots of those people's faces..

**anobserver** · 09-12-2018, 08:30 AM

Holden has slipped to number six on the manufacturing, now behind Ford and Mitsubishi.

https://premium.goauto.com.au/holden...y-hungry-pack/

Surely the dealership network can't be sustained if sales continue to slip.

**russellw** · 09-12-2018, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anobserver

Holden has slipped to number six on the manufacturing, now behind Ford and Mitsubishi.

https://premium.goauto.com.au/holden...y-hungry-pack/

Surely the dealership network can't be sustained if sales continue to slip.

Holden actually dropped to 7th in November having been 6th in October.

Cheers
Russ

prydey · 09-12-2018, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anobserver

Holden has slipped to number six on the manufacturing, now behind Ford and Mitsubishi.

https://premium.goauto.com.au/holden...y-hungry-pack/

Surely the dealership network can't be sustained if sales continue to slip.

So how do the dealership networks of those manufacturers below 7th survive?

prydey · 09-12-2018, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

They introduced a Trend RWD version. My point is moreso they are playing in the lower price point of quite a few premium Euro vehicles and Australians have shown they will go euro if they can.

They have also shown they are more likely to buy the premium model Ford over the base model. Rangers are largely xlt and wildtrack, and while I don't know the breakdown of Everest, I see quite a few around as the are often titanium models.

Being a new model to market I'm sure they will price it similar to its competition, or at a price point to achieve their internal sales targets.

jpd80 · 09-12-2018, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

So how do the dealership networks of those manufacturers below 7th survive?

They are smaller with fewer dealerships.....

prydey · 09-12-2018, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

They are smaller with fewer dealerships.....

Correct, but they are still there.

Many dealerships are owned by the same company. Here is an example of possibly the biggest
https://www.apeagers.com.au/ap-eagers-dealerships/

BENT_8 · 09-12-2018, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by russellw

Holden actually dropped to 7th in November having been 6th in October.

Cheers
Russ

Unless Toyota sold 200,000 in November, i'd say that graph is a YTD summary in which case Holden is 6th despite sipping to 7th for the month of November.

On the positive note, Holden are up from 9th a few months ago and Ford are up from 6th.

Lets be honest here, the difference between 5th and 8th is less than 800 units and can swing slightly in favour of one or the other based on product cycle, incentives or a number of other influences.

Toyota are a lock for the no1 spot, the next 3 are fairly well seperated and then its a 4 or 5 horse race with a reasonably accurate form giude of where they'll place month on month.

Dr Smith · 09-12-2018, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

Keep in mind that the Endura was an "easy grab" for Ford as it was just a slightly altered UK Edge 2.0 diesel.
So providing it for Australia was relatively easy as just bundled with RHD market production to that of the Mustang.
A little disappointing that there wan't a 2.0 EB base engine available as I think it may have worked well with the 8AT.

Doc, I understand your concern with the pricing but I've noticed that FoA seems set to go after more premium buyers
and while most cross shoppers would choose Euro instead, the service costs might take the smile of lots of those people's faces..

One to revisit in 6-12 month.

My "dream" is getting a Lincoln Aviator into a RHD "Dr Smith Chariot".

jpd80 · 09-12-2018, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

Correct, but they are still there.

Many dealerships are owned by the same company. Here is an example of possibly the biggest
https://www.apeagers.com.au/ap-eagers-dealerships/

I know that, what I'm implying is that Holden may need to further reduce dealership count.
Even with discounting, Holden is struggling to pass 5,000 sales which will be a concern to Holden,
I'm sure that they were expecting a much bigger lift in sales by now...this is hard because it's
all about working fdwn excess stock at the moment but beyond January, who knows...

Big_Daz · 09-12-2018, 05:34 PM

Interesting to note Ford are doing XLT Ranger 3.2 Manual $54990 DA with 5 years free servicing... Obviously to counteract Hilux SR5 Manual $52990DA deals currently on...

naddis01 · 09-12-2018, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big_Daz

Interesting to note Ford are doing XLT Ranger 3.2 Manual $54990 DA with 5 years free servicing... Obviously to counteract Hilux SR5 Manual $52990DA deals currently on...

That's the run-out PXII not the new PXIII.

The Hilux one now includes 'free' auto.

jpd80 · 10-12-2018, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by naddis01

That's the run-out PXII not the new PXIII.

The Hilux one now includes 'free' auto.

and you have to wonder how many of those PXII Rangers are left,
now that PXIII has been on sale for the last month or so...

hayseed · 10-12-2018, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

what I'm implying is that Holden may need to further reduce dealership count...

They need to be careful how they go about this, In my opinion.
Not so much in Metropolitan areas,but a "Smallish" country Town Losing Its Long Standing Holden Dealer Won't do their already battered Goodwill or Brand loyalty any favours..

jpd80 · 10-12-2018, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hayseed

They need to be careful how they go about this, In my opinion.
Not so much in Metropolitan areas,but a "Smallish" country Town Losing Its Long Standing Holden Dealer Won't do their already battered Goodwill or Brand loyalty any favours..

On the other side of that as mentioned before, are those multi-franchise dealerships
which is probably a much better model for smaller towns and cities., it's far more efficient
to bundle brands up together and deliver sales and service that would not otherwise be possible.

hackney · 10-12-2018, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hayseed

They need to be careful how they go about this, In my opinion.
Not so much in Metropolitan areas,but a "Smallish" country Town Losing Its Long Standing Holden Dealer Won't do their already battered Goodwill or Brand loyalty any favours..

Never fear Toyota’s here! Most “smallish” towns have Toyota dealers now.Most tradies,farmers & rural land owners are buying them.Nobody in these towns would touch a Holden product with a barge pole.Our local town use to have a Holden dealer,now long gone,also a Mitsubishi dealer,also long gone.Only one dealer in town,yep,you guessed it.Loads of Hiluxes,Landcruisers(a lot of these)& the like.Cheers