Chev badges on your Holden Commodore..

[rick69]

Originally Posted by EF_Dave

the commodore is simply a rebadged opel with different bumper bars

Well, you must be severely narrow minded and misinformed to think that. :

Originally Posted by AUGZMK

Oh dear.. my stomach hurts, stop.. please stop. . 100% Australian designed!?? Please tell me how you came to this conclusion? I wouldn't mind another good laugh. :

Ok, the platform may have been derived from the Cadillac Sigma platform, but with a substantial amount of engineering input by Holden, so maybe not 100% in terms of platform and drivetrain....
However body and interior design is done 100% inhouse by Holden and does not borrow anything off any other car in the GM world.
Again, do I have to be so specific and pedantic with everything I write?

[MITCHAY]

correct me if im wrong but are tickford, windsor and cleveland engines arent australian either. dont they got their roots in america. if so then wat would b the probs wit holden havin chev engines then. i dont think holden nor ford are 100% australian. i dont think any car company is.

they both have their roots in america. holden is controlled by GM so as far as design goes wouldnt they call the shots. holden used to use their holden 5l V8s up to the 97 VT commodore SS and HSVs by my memory. i guess that GM thought it would b better than having two V8 engines and decided to drop in the Gen III engine to cut costs. pffft i wouldnt buy a car based on whether its australian designed or wateva. id buy depending on whether it was a good design and good performance.

Holden gained the top sales position in the March monthly market with 16,032 vehicles, ahead of Toyota with 15,668 and Ford third with 12,019. Toyota, with a market share of 18.7%, retains market leadership in year-to-date terms. Holden's March result sees them in second position with a market share of 18.3%, with Ford's market share of 13.6% placing them third

obviouisly holden is doin better despite the fact of design so it musnt be worth much if its australian or not

[rick69]

And if you care to do some research EF_Dave, (go auto is a good place to start) you will find that Holden has been appointed the centre of RWD design and development in the GM world and the tables have now turned - Holden will now be designing cars for Opel.

[Dez]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

correct me if im wrong but are tickford, windsor and cleveland engines arent australian either. dont they got their roots in america. if so then wat would b the probs wit holden havin chev engines then. i dont think holden nor ford are 100% australian. i dont think any car company is.

they both have their roots in america. holden is controlled by GM so as far as design goes wouldnt they call the shots. holden used to use their holden 5l V8s up to the 97 VT commodore SS and HSVs by my memory. i guess that GM thought it would b better than having two V8 engines and decided to drop in the Gen III engine to cut costs. pffft i wouldnt buy a car based on whether its australian designed or wateva. id buy depending on whether it was a good design and good performance.



obviouisly holden is doin better despite the fact of design so it musnt be worth much if its australian or not

I think its the fact that holden claim to be so austrlian...."holden means a great deal to australia" for example....where as ford dont use that BS as their marketing angle

[rick69]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

correct me if im wrong but are tickford, windsor and cleveland engines arent australian either.

Nor are the boss engines, which are simply a slap together of a block and heads from a US parts bin.
I also have to question the development of the I6 as being 'all aussie'.... without significant engineering input from overseas it wouldn't be what it is today, not to mention that 50% of the componentry is imported.

[Teki04]

Holden meaning a great deal to Australia doesnt mean they are 100% Australian?... they just say that cause they build and sell their cars here.... its their main market and it means a great deal to them.... without it they would only be exporting, which isnt worth it... also, holden's being rebadged Opels? Have you even seen the Opel Omega? its no where near as big as the Commodore

They just use engines and platforms from GM... it makes more sense and its more profitable. The more parts you share, the less costs, and hence the more profit is made. Its a business fact... Just because they are smart with their costs. If you think, the more profit they make, the more able they are to create an even better car (the VE).... ford is finally learning, making profit with designing a territory and sharing parts, hence in the bid to get its profit back after the disappointing AU... If ford could have a better V8 from America, that could be even cheaper (probably lighter as well) wouldnt you want it? exactly... what ppl wants, ppl gets

[Teki04]

Oh, and i forgot to mention.... Outsourcing is generally also cheaper as they can purchase parts in bulk from manufacturers that SPECIALISE in their particular area... hence why parts are sourced from different parts of the world

[MITCHAY]

couldnt b put better mate. id rather buy a cheap car than sumthn australian made. that wat it all comes down to-cost. how many ppl do u think go around lookn for australian made and owned. not as many as those who look for sumthn that costs less

[MITCHAY]

Originally Posted by rick69

Nor are the boss engines, which are simply a slap together of a block and heads from a US parts bin.
I also have to question the development of the I6 as being 'all aussie'.... without significant engineering input from overseas it wouldn't be what it is today, not to mention that 50% of the componentry is imported.

wouldnt that mean that ford aus have gone through 4 american company engines compared to holdens one chev company. lol thats funny. but id say that ford r actually on track now and still gettn outsold. i think that holden is seen more australian than ford purely for the fact that the marque is unique in australian.

[Dez]

Originally Posted by Teki04

Holden meaning a great deal to Australia doesnt mean they are 100% Australian?... they just say that cause they build and sell their cars here.... its their main market and it means a great deal to them.... without it they would only be exporting, which isnt worth it...

if thats the case, they should say "Australia means a great deal to holden"

[MITCHAY]

its just advertising. i dont see the big deal bout it. its just like the AWD magna ad and the commys and falcons sliding out on dirt corners. pfft like u go on dirt roads in a family car fangn it.

[MethodX]

We are lucky to have both makers here, making V8's
Both are the Australian arms of American multinationals anyway.

Talk about pedantics, just because GM choose to use different names in different markets.

Holden used a widened Opel Omega platform.
Ford continually updated an XK Falcon platform.

[XplosiveR6]

you all have got me wrong, i nevery said that there was anything wrong with outsourcing, it simply must be done in this day and age with huge amounts of silly car companys sprouting up all over the place. I was simply making a point that the commodore never was even close and never will be "100% Australian", and the fact that holden advertise there cars saying that holden is to get sales from all those boagans out there who wouldnt buy anything not "australian"

[Psycho Chicken]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

wouldnt that mean that ford aus have gone through 4 american company engines compared to holdens one chev company. lol thats funny. but id say that ford r actually on track now and still gettn outsold. i think that holden is seen more australian than ford purely for the fact that the marque is unique in australian.

I count 3 vs 3. Wheezer, Clevo, Boss, Buick 3.8, LS1 and LS2.

In the end, who gives a flying f*ck? Honestly, if anyone is losing any sleep over it, get over it. Sure it's fun to poke fun at each other but in the end both companies are giving jobs to thousands of Aussies, which has to be a good thing.

I bet the're even paying people to rip Opel/Vaxhal/Izusu/Chev/Buick/Nissan badges off and slap Holden badges on.

[MITCHAY]

Originally Posted by Psycho Chicken

I count 3 vs 3. Wheezer, Clevo, Boss, Buick 3.8, LS1 and LS2.

wat bout tickford?

arent Ls2 and ls1 still the one company which is chev. so really 4v2 :p

i really couldnt give a shit either as ill wont get either.

[Psycho Chicken]

I'm talking types of engine, not companies, as Ford US is the one company, right?

And Tickford just ground a cam up, played with the heads and whacked a different ECU on it all.

[MITCHAY]

Originally Posted by Psycho Chicken

I'm talking types of engine, not companies, as Ford US is the one company, right?

And Tickford just ground a cam up, played with the heads and whacked a different ECU on it all.

oh ok. yeah basically both r good V8s it just comes down to personal preference

[Psycho Chicken]

That's it!

[Teki04]

Originally Posted by Dez

if thats the case, they should say "Australia means a great deal to holden"

Holden means a great deal to Australia, cause like i said, they supply the average family with a family car at a good value price.... hence the outsourcing to keep costs down... im sure if the cost of the executive started at $40000 no family would EVER buy a commodore... hence, holden means a great deal to the Australian Family


As does the Falcon... competition means competitive prices and encourages innovation....

[MITCHAY]

i remember you used to pay up to $37000 RRP for a base commodore. now its $33650 RRP. an acclaim is now $39490 RRP. these prices differ form where ever u go. mind u these r normal family cars with no sporty engine. to alot of families this is mayb too expensive but its obviously a good price among the majority. i reckon a $3-4000 price drop over 2-3 models with more extras is pretty damn good.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

i remember you used to pay up to $37000 RRP for a base commodore. now its $33650 RRP. an acclaim is now $39490 RRP. these prices differ form where ever u go. mind u these r normal family cars with no sporty engine. to alot of families this is mayb too expensive but its obviously a good price among the majority. i reckon a $3-4000 price drop over 2-3 models with more extras is pretty damn good.

No base model has ever sold for $37,000, they used to sell for $27,000 not that long ago. They always seem to go up about 500-1000 dollars with every new model that is released, so you are a bit far off with that price.

[Teki04]

True that Boxssxr8... price increases due to more safety features, and technology....

[MITCHAY]

prolly was lookn at the wrong car lol. my bad. im not a mornin person. dont wake up to at least 1pm lol. i might get up before but i dont wake up

[Peuty]

Originally Posted by Teki04

Holden means a great deal to Australia

I think you guys are missing the whole point of that ad. They are trying to say that Holden can do you a great deal on one of their cars, not that Australia should be grateful that Holden makes cars.

[Dez]

Originally Posted by Peuty

I think you guys are missing the whole point of that ad. They are trying to say that Holden can do you a great deal on one of their cars, not that Australia should be grateful that Holden makes cars.

i think they wanted it to have both meanings.....its supposed to be catchy...

[MITCHAY]

Originally Posted by Dez

i think they wanted it to have both meanings.....its supposed to be catchy...

thats advertising in a nutshell. if its not catchy then it aint worth showing.